TT Deck Limit

What is the reason for not allowing me to use more than 1 rare card in a deck unless I own over 30 cards?

I have enough cards to make a deck of Primals that I earned but no I'm not allowed to use them? That's just silly, if I earned the cards I should be able to use the cards.

Because if you rocked up with 5 silvers, no npc could beat you

Simply put, it's a way to make it so that players are forced to go for weaker cards instead of hunting for only the best ones (and therefore, make them unable to have advantages on things such as Random rule). I really like this system, it ensures that all players develop their decks equally.

It works alright though...except the Random rule, which I think that is so super unfair.

I think it works fine as it is. It means you'll have to use more strategy, rather than just bashing through every fight. And TT is, after all, a strategy game.

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Originally Posted by Neri

It works alright though...except the Random rule, which I think that is so super unfair.

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Exactly, it's not exactly "Random" if the NPC uses the same 5 badass card when you get majority crap cards :l

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Originally Posted by Leowilde

I think it works fine as it is. It means you'll have to use more strategy, rather than just bashing through every fight. And TT is, after all, a strategy game.

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How do you propose using strategy against an opponent with the random rule, or the chaos rule; that also has only 3 star+ (or even mostly 4-5stars)

With certain rules active the deck limit makes it almost impossible to defeat said opponents. Strategy only works so far.
Try fighting a 4 or 5 star opponent without a rule such as Plus or Same active.

It's not that hard, I managed to beat all the NPC without even removing the deck limitation, it's hard to farm them yes, but defeat them ? not so much.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

How do you propose using strategy against an opponent with the random rule, or the chaos rule; that also has only 3 star+ (or even mostly 4-5stars)

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Does every opponent have to be easily beatable from the onset?

If I have one complaint it is that the King is a complete pushover compared to the handful of NPCs with those rules; I'd have quite enjoyed going off, building up my deck, then coming back to crush the King having "leveled up" my decks, instead he was one of the first NPCs I beat... I'd love to know how he got that title...

I do find it odd to have a "leveling up" system in a card game, but eh, it works for me. If you're going to have leveling it only makes sense to have enemies almost require you to level up to reasonably face them.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Does every opponent have to be easily beatable from the onset?

If I have one complaint it is that the King is a complete pushover compared to the handful of NPCs with those rules; I'd have quite enjoyed going off, building up my deck, then coming back to crush the King having "leveled up" my decks, instead he was one of the first NPCs I beat... I'd love to know how he got that title...

I do find it odd to have a "leveling up" system in a card game, but eh, it works for me. If you're going to have leveling it only makes sense to have enemies almost require you to level up to reasonably face them.

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The point isnt being easily beaten. The point is that you may have won a dozen cards but you are still forced to use the starter deck + 1 untill you have 30 cards.


If there werent npcs around with easily exploitable rules, I imagine many people would be unable to win at all. There are only perhaps 2 or 3 npcs that you can reasonable be expected to win against with the starter deck; without those rules active.
The ones with stronger decks and no favorable rules obviously require better cards.
That is what I ment with ''have you tried to duel an npc with a stronger deck that has no rules you can exploit''

It's not an problem when we are required to first obtain stronger cards to be able to defeat strong opponents.
But it just makes no sense to have aquired those cards only to be unable to use them.

0:34 mark...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkuzTXPvAPs

Yeah, I agree it's a bit of a silly rule. In your quest to get 30 cards and defeat all the NPC's for that delicious Squall card you'll be fully taking advantage of stupid AI and rule abuse rather than any hint at strategy. There's a LOT of luck involved in the early stages, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't played it enough.

There's not a lot you can do when the NPC is throwing down cards with 8's on most edges and A's on the others. They will feverishly guard the one weak side on their card no matter how well you bait them, but this same strategy can be used to your advantage. It sometimes forces them to play these cards in slots where it won't flip over your own cards, while giving you some respite to cover your own weak-spots and maybe even grab some captures of your own if you're using Chocobo or Moogle cards which are very valuable early cards to have.

It all goes out the window with Random or Chaos rules, but it's a starting point to build your strategies on. I've done the deed, collected my 30 cards and beaten the NPCs soundly with my quaint strategies. My next goal is to reach the next threshold and build a deck that makes my adversaries quiver.

The way I see it, Triple Triad was made to incentivate player vs player matches to grind MGPs, and with them buy the random card decks to expand their card list a little and then go challenge NPCs. You have to consider also, that Triple Triad is a game meant to be accessible to lv15 players. If you had the ability to immediately use the stronger cards, there'd be several problems.

First and foremost, the lower level cards would only have a collectible value, and because of rules like Random, players would avoid getting them althogether. Second, players with lv50 jobs able to do duties such as Primals Hard Mode would have an unfair advantage over lv15 players as they can start off with a deck of primal cards and crush the newbies who are instead forced to start with 1-2 star cards. It would scatter all the balance and throw it out of the window.

Fighting NPCs is not ALL of Triple Triad. It is NOW, because the game has just come out, but soon enough everyone will have all cards and then tournaments will become the real deal, so player-vs-player will be the core mechanic, and there you won't have opponents with only 4-5 star cards as the NPCs you complain about now.

To ask to immediately access super cards is not any different than asking for your lv10 gladiator to be able to equip that High Allagan Cuirass of Fending your retainer brought you from a venture.

Instead of having to collect 30 cards the requirement to unlock the next level of TT Rank should've just been say win 50 card battles, I've had about 3 Bahamuts and 5 Godberts but no I must still collect a load of crappier cards to 'rank up'...

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

The way I see it, Triple Triad was made to incentivate player vs player matches to grind MGPs, and with them buy the random card decks to expand their card list a little and then go challenge NPCs.

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Two things wrong with this idea. Firstly, there's a cap on the MGP you can earn through matches with players. Secondly, the packs themselves won't even get you half way towards your 30 card total, unless you're willing to shell out thousands on gold and silver packs, and just happen to get exceptionally lucky.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

First and foremost, the lower level cards would only have a collectible value, and because of rules like Random, players would avoid getting them altogether. Second, players with lv50 jobs able to do duties such as Primals Hard Mode would have an unfair advantage over lv15 players as they can start off with a deck of primal cards and crush the newbies who are instead forced to start with 1-2 star cards. It would scatter all the balance and throw it out of the window.

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This can still happen if any of your opponents have beaten that 60 card limit. After all, once you break those barriers you're not limited on whom you play against. All it really does is force the newbie to play the starter deck for ages before they can actually use any of the cards they've been winning.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

Fighting NPCs is not ALL of Triple Triad. It is NOW, because the game has just come out, but soon enough everyone will have all cards and then tournaments will become the real deal, so player-vs-player will be the core mechanic, and there you won't have opponents with only 4-5 star cards as the NPCs you complain about now.

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True, but in the same regard you're EXPECTED to battle these NPCs a lot. Moreover, you're expected to WIN. It's really the only major mechanic for getting new cards, and the drop rate means you'll need a good few rounds before you'll actually earn a card.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

To ask to immediately access super cards is not any different than asking for your lv10 gladiator to be able to equip that High Allagan Cuirass of Fending your retainer brought you from a venture.

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Actually, it's more like removing the cap on Frontlines and pitting level 110's against level 80's in a big free-for-all. There's no balancing here, since there's no easy way to tell if a player if packing multiple 3-stars or not. The real balancing would be the removal of said caps so you could use all of YOUR best cards to do likewise.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

How do you propose using strategy against an opponent with the random rule, or the chaos rule; that also has only 3 star+ (or even mostly 4-5stars)

With certain rules active the deck limit makes it almost impossible to defeat said opponents. Strategy only works so far.
Try fighting a 4 or 5 star opponent without a rule such as Plus or Same active.

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I'm not saying it's easy, and I don't think it should be either. You get several 1-star cards that reach up to 7 early on, and with a mix of trying to anticipate your opponent's next move and some luck, it's possible to beat 4-star cards. They usually have a weak side as well. Try to lure it out, if you can. Also, the chaos rule backfires, does it not? Unless it's like with random, that the NPC is not affected by it. If so, I admit that is a big bullshit rule. Player and NPC should play with the same rules.

Friend suggested this, and I think it would be a much better system...

Instead of 30,60,80 to unlock being able to use 2*,3*, etc. why not make the restriction be a max of "x" amount of stars in your deck.

For example instead of the first tier (under 30) being "only 1*'s and a single card above 1*", make the first tier be like "maximum amount of 9*'s (which is the most amount of stars you could have at this level)". It allows you to have variation while still having a restriction.

Ruhtwyda for example is a joke to try and beat, all 3-4 star cards against my 1 5-star and the rest 1-star.... yea, ok.

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

Instead of having to collect 30 cards the requirement to unlock the next level of TT Rank should've just been say win 50 card battles, I've had about 3 Bahamuts and 5 Godberts but no I must still collect a load of crappier cards to 'rank up'...

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It's like the dev want you to go out and beat more NPCs rather than just the ones that drop the cards that you want or something. It's not even hard to collect 30 cards.

Having collected at least 60 cards now, I can say SE got it right with the grind. If you were able to blow away NPCs from the getgo, that wouldn't be very smart design and in a way makes TT get less value. What I do feel was slightly "unfair" was more the deck limit release, I feel while 30 is definitely possible, it feels like quite steep climb to it in comparison to what your capable of with the 1 star deck, and 20 or 25 would have made much more sense.

As for people complaining about Random/Chaos rules with your 1 star deck + bahamut vs NPCs that have multiple 4 stars and a 5 star, it's incredibly, painfully obvious that two things are supposed to happen here.

You are not supposed to fight these NPCs with your 1 star deck!!!!!

Come back when you upgrade to have a fighting chance.

There is also something else SE did that many people are just sorta letting go completely over there heads. Regional rules change daily. SURPRISE!!!!
Check back when plus / same get added to give you the upper hand.

Now Chaos, I feel makes the matches WAY harder. I think however that doesn't take away from the game but helps it. The Immortal Flames NPC "Swift", holder of Rahbaun card, definitely taught me this one. Even with an upgraded deck but less then 60 cards, he is imo the hardest NPC in the game to win against. I formerly used the beastman set + bahamut to scrape out all the other NPCs but when I got to swift it just wasn't strong enough (maybe a below 50% win ratio) to deal with his 3? **** and 4-5 ***** cards. It took me to redesign my deck around Chaos as well as his own cards a lil to get the upper hand and be more competitive against him. Granted the fights are still about alil luck but the fact that you KNOW the cards they have access to is already giving you alot of information of how they will play.

My recommendation for Chaos, is simply go all out offense with big cards that have 2 side openings when possible. Then expect that card to be taken on one weakside, and have options in your deck still to take it back, while also trying to wall yourself somehow. You only need to get away with one card flip and then the rest of the game play as defensive as possible.

As for Random, well it's as it says random more so for us then the predetermined NPC deck.

My problem with the 30 card rule is that I'm a very picky collector. I don't want all the cards, just a select few which aren't even that good with only a couple in the 4*s and 5*s. I could give a rat's butt over Squall or Cloud and Cid... whatever. That said, I'd like to use the cards I do collect and the 30 rule prevents that.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

You are not supposed to fight these NPCs with your 1 star deck!!!!!

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Good luck with that. You'll need to beat at least one using the random rule before you'll hit 30 cards unless you have a few hundred thousand MGP to spend on the random packs. Not only is it a regional rule which can pop in unexpectedly it's also used by a fair number of opponents as a fixture.

I do agree though... Swift was the toughest NPC to beat of them all.

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Originally Posted by Leowilde

I'm not saying it's easy, and I don't think it should be either. You get several 1-star cards that reach up to 7 early on, and with a mix of trying to anticipate your opponent's next move and some luck, it's possible to beat 4-star cards. They usually have a weak side as well. Try to lure it out, if you can. Also, the chaos rule backfires, does it not? Unless it's like with random, that the NPC is not affected by it. If so, I admit that is a big bullshit rule. Player and NPC should play with the same rules.

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I'm above 30 cards, I don't personally find it impossible to beat any npc (at this card number), but I won't rosen it up either.
If you fight more NPCs I think you will come to understand.
Many npcs have 3-4-5 star only decks: if you are lucky, as some only have a single card; or none below 4 star.
Those cards have tend to have only a single sided weakness, one that is all too easily covered.


Chaos cannot backfire against NPCs in the same way. This is because NPC cards have far higher value, and better stats on most sides. For example take Odin, he has 8-8-8 with a 1 at the bottom. That means that regardless in what order the NPC has to play it in, he can nearly always use it to flip a card.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Good luck with that. You'll need to beat at least one using the random rule before you'll hit 30 cards unless you have a few hundred thousand MGP to spend on the random packs. Not only is it a regional rule which can pop in unexpectedly it's also used by a fair number of opponents as a fixture.

I do agree though... Swift was the toughest NPC to beat of them all.

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I personally skipped most of the randoms I knew I couldn't beat, IE Rowena and Lanadel until I got the deck upgrade, and tried to figure out how to get cards. Some cards you can only get from fights, like Shiva or King Moogle.

I however took the other route of farming the one NPC I knew I could beat for sure and make quick MGP, King Elmer. Chances at Bahamut cards to sell + high win bonus and easy to win fight. After that it's just Booster Pack heaven like you said.
I just don't get all of the complaints about Random NPCs, when Chaos is the worst. Swift is a nightmare, I'd take Lanadel over him anytime.

Ugh Swift. Took me quite a few tries to finally beat him. Not sure if ill bother going for his cards to 60, doesnt seem worth the hassle.

I have to say: its not the TT i liked in FFVIII or on real life turnaments...

from my several years of playing tcg's semi competitively and as a hobby I find the restrictions of TT to be the most vexing and impractical thing that ive ever had to work with for a card game. If i could use the same setup, as the npc's and be able to make a deck of multiple 3 stars and up i could see this as a fair game, but right now i dont see TT at all as a balanced game. Instead I often feel like im just a poor hapless noob who just won a few games among friends and thought it was a great idea to try to go enter a competitive tournament and getting my face pummeled by even the weakest of opponents.

this being said i love to play against other players as often the rules tend to be much fairer, but against other npc's who seem to have this awesome game changing 30 card minimum, its just sending the sheep to slaughter some days.

Because the NPCs play TT so hilariously bad that they need the handicap.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I just don't get all of the complaints about Random NPCs, when Chaos is the worst. Swift is a nightmare, I'd take Lanadel over him anytime.

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Simple, with chaos you can still choose the cards in your deck. You can work around chaos by carefully choosing your cards, but there's no workaround for Random since you're not in control of which cards you're forced to use.

Incidentally, Swift uses both Random AND Chaos, which is why he's such a nightmare. When you don't control the cards OR the order, you're just plain screwed.

Just got off the game with one of the NPC. I have a feeling that TT still has some bugs in it like this one that I think it is outright cheated of a bug, happened for a few times now though.

The npc has a 4 at the bottom, my card has 8 on top, so I align it hoping to flip it up to my side, but nope, nothing happened after I put that card down, it still remained in red without flipping resulted in my loss -*-. The rule was Swap and Same.

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

What is the reason for not allowing me to use more than 1 rare card in a deck unless I own over 30 cards?

I have enough cards to make a deck of Primals that I earned but no I'm not allowed to use them? That's just silly, if I earned the cards I should be able to use the cards.

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After I put my 3x 4 Stars and wanted save deck -> System: "Not allowed! :P" -> Card NPC: "Bahahahha and I use only 3-4stars >: D"

I totaly lost interesst on that cardgame I liked much on FF8.
Was a nice time waste to get my 1st 4stars. <<;

It shouldn't take very long to obtain 30 cards to get over the first rarity hurdle for TT. Once you obtain the starter deck and obtained the awarded cards from the Golden Saucer, start visiting all the NPCs around the world for the 1-star and 2-star cards. When you have some spare tokens, purchase some silver and gold packs from the vendor.

The pack is kinda a rip off in my opinion. I mean, I bought the total of 6 gold packs so far, and all I got are 4 Momodi, and 2 Gerolt...lol. But have to keep buying anyway because of those Zedane, and WoL card..../sigh what a mgp sink - -"

The original Triple Triad system was perfect. Win a match, you get one/all cards, lose a match, you lose one/all cards. Instead We hot this Triple Atma Triad. Why? Probably to artificually longeviate the content and not upset bads for losing good cards.

As of now, I have 26 cards collected and no weak npcs left to farm. Therefore, I'm down to farming npcs with 1-2 stars stronger cards on average. So far 2 hour-ish of farming for Alphinaud but nothing lol. Seems reasonable. Of course, I could farm dungeons/trials for the missing cards, but after getting my Zeta, I have no desire to do the rumba all over again.

Triple Triad is a good addition, but how they handled it is bad. I have a deck full of cards, out of which I can only use a fragment of.

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Originally Posted by Fated

Because the NPCs play TT so hilariously bad that they need the handicap.

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Yeah the TT AI is astonishingly bad. Even though he has like 3x 5-star and 2x 4-star cards, you can still ream Gegeruju if you get a lucky swap and he gives you the Sultana or something. I had some epic wins against him where I forced Sudden Death 3-4 times in a row before I beat him.

Playing TT against the NPCs isn't necessarily playing against the strength of their decks, it's playing against the mechanics of their AIs. Almost all the AIs have some exploitable weakness, King Elmer is the obvious example of this but you can even beat Baderon (Chaos) and Buscarron (Order) with just your 1-star deck and a single 5-star. I lucked out and got a random Onion Knight from a WoD and that card carried me all the way from my starter deck to 30. I didn't farm any Primals or dungeons to reach 30, I did nothing but straight up farm the NPCs to reach 30. It only took me a day of beating up NPCs excluding Elmer, that guy took forever to drop my Bahamut.

You don't need an amazing deck to beat all non-Random NPCs. But the Random NPCs, those guys can go die in a Calamity.