SE and I obviously disagree on the definition of the word "instant"

You know what I'm talking about. Hallowed Ground!

Every time I realize the healers cures aren't gonna get there in time or be enough to let me weather the next hit... I hit my panic button. And every time I watch half a second of animation and then eat floor anyways... I lose my shit. It has become quite entertaining for my raid static over mumble.

I think the animation delay on Hallowed Ground is stupid enough as it is; You don't want to waste it so you don't throw it out whenever your hp falls below 33%, especially when you're confident your healz has your back. It can be tricky to pay attention to everything, know the upcoming attacks in the boss rotation, be aware of the inbound heals, etc. So if you KNOW you need it you are probably already pretty close being late on the trigger... Really I feel like SE should kinda say, "You were skilled enough to not waste it and recognize when you needed it AND react? Good job, here is your reward. No animation delay needed." For how many other skills is there a difference of life and death (maybe even party wipe) based on the animation time delay.. pretty much any time you use it?

It's frustrating to be sure. But what really gets me riled up.. I'm laying dead on the ground after watching the protective bubble surround me and me raise my sword.. and I find out Hallowed Ground is now on COOL DOWN! NO! That's NOT cool. Clearly I didn't 'use' the skill, because if I had I would be alive.

So, SE, you are telling me that even if a healer is able to swiftcast -> raise me back into the fight quickly enough that the party isn't already in ruins, I now don't have access to hallowed ground for the rest of the fight?

What does everyone think? I think this is actually something which needs to be changed in one way or another.

I wonder. I use certain abilities to animation cancel when I need snap aggro FAST (shadows of meracydia)... would that work with Holmgang/ Hallowed Ground as well?

The animation delay is fine for such an extremely strong skill, IMO.

The CD on it being used while "dead" is NOT cool, however. There should be a rollback system of sorts, or ensure that a skill is active before it gets put on CD.

Meh same thing for benediction, I have to twirl see the numbers show up on the tanks sprite then poof full hp. If the tank dies while numbers are floating upwards: no heal and ability on cd.

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

I wonder. I use certain abilities to animation cancel when I need snap aggro FAST (shadows of meracydia)... would that work with Holmgang/ Hallowed Ground as well?

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The reason you can cancel a BB is because it's on the GCD, and you're cancelling with an off-GCD. When both are off-GCD abilities, it doesn't work the same.

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Originally Posted by ErnestoGiovanni

Meh same thing for benediction, I have to twirl see the numbers show up on the tanks sprite then poof full hp. If the tank dies while numbers are floating upwards: no heal and ability on cd.

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Benediction: Instantly kills the target.

We all know it's true.

I was in wod yesterday, for some reason my heals weren't coming and so yeah I hit hallowed ground just after another hit, that hit putting me at 17hp... but then of course just as I'm using the skill a random hit kills me, I lose hallowed ground as a cool-down.

the really bad thing about losing it is that if you are raised real quick you have lost the one ability that would be ideal for you to grab the hate back with, knowing your healer/s would have the time to heal you and buff you to continue the encounter with and knowing you couldn't be killed again for its duration.

since it is the oh god I'm going to die button it should not have a delay,

people complained about holmgang when it was changed, but about 80% of the time i have used it, it has worked the way i intended it to

just really have to pay attention to the amount of incoming healing, how much damage you are taking and trust your ability to calculate a deficit that calls for invincibility ahead of time

twice in the last 3 days ive holmganged, and its flung the chain and gone on cooldown
only for me to instantly fucking die

The game as a whole needs to do away with the whole delay/lag BS that's baked into everything, I think. I'm pretty sure it's not possible, though, so woopie.

But seriously, anyone who's ever tried PVP as a melee class probably knows the pain. You're on a target, you hit an ability, it starts the animation. The target moves before the animation completes. Your ability fails. Ridiculous.

You hit an ability, want to hit something that's off the GCD. But too bad, you can't, there's a delay due to the abilities each having to play out their flashy spell effect. Most frustrating with Ninjutsu.

I mean, I realize these are different things. But I feel they're similar issues. If "instant" abilities were legitimately instant, you wouldn't have the aforementioned issue in PVP, for example.

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

twice in the last 3 days ive holmganged, and its flung the chain and gone on cooldown
only for me to instantly fucking die

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I wouldn't be as mad if the Holmgang failed to activate and I died.

BUT IT GOES ON COOLDOWN SO I KNOW IT ACTIVATED SO WHY DID I DIE

WHAT KIND OF GAME HAS A SKILL GO ON CD BUT NOT ACTUALLY WORK

Do you have it on a macro? 'Cause that delays it even further, it's really frustrating to see Hallowed/Holmgang macros lol. But yeah, I find that there's a timing that you need to get used to.

Every ability in the game works this way. You can trigger a dps ability (long animation like chaos thrust) wheb a monster is at 1%. The animation finishes, damage pops up, but it was already dead (very noticeable in PvP wheb it doesn't count as your kill).

*Trigger action, server decides yes, you used the action (gcd, cooldown triggers).
*Animation starts
*time elapsed and things happen (dying for example using HG, HG or Bene)
*Animation finishes and effect takes place.

There's this annoying gap after everything in the game is used and the effect takes place. Dots/damage aren't applied til animation finishes (Eg chaos thrust long animation). Threat isn't applied till animation finishes (grabbing adds with halone or BB and it runs off and then comes right back. Just like damage). Abilities have a gap to take effect (hg, hg, bene, even stuff like sentinal/ib. It all has a delay).

Same with monster abikities. Think about every super move. Giga flare, megaflare (t9), etc.cast bar finishes, but hp doesn't go down until seconds later after the big flashy crazy animation. You can delay running for earth shaker because th puddle won't drop until the animation finishes.

this entire game is built with this stupid time gap. An ability is cast, or used, the target is locked in, the damage is already decided. The animation stsrts, ability goes on CD/GCD. Then gap while you watch pretty flashes. THEN the effect goes off.

It's just dumb to tie everything to the animation wheb animations are all over the board. Some are very quick, some take forever. There's no consistency. So many times raid member "I was out of that! Wtf!", or "I had bubble/succor/path/ss/virus up!" Nope. You were out/cast defensive stuff before the animation finished, but not when the cast bar finished so that same gap makes you think you dodged/had buff up but you fate was sealed seconds ago when it wasnt.

The one thing I agree with the OP on is that hallowed failed. ok great, so I died. Fine. But... why is HG on cooldown now?

The code should be smart enough to know if I died within 7 seconds of HG being used...due to damage HG was meant to block, and if so, eliminating the cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Orangekun

The game as a whole needs to do away with the whole delay/lag BS that's baked into everything, I think. I'm pretty sure it's not possible, though, so woopie.

But seriously, anyone who's ever tried PVP as a melee class probably knows the pain. You're on a target, you hit an ability, it starts the animation. The target moves before the animation completes. Your ability fails. Ridiculous.

You hit an ability, want to hit something that's off the GCD. But too bad, you can't, there's a delay due to the abilities each having to play out their flashy spell effect. Most frustrating with Ninjutsu.

I mean, I realize these are different things. But I feel they're similar issues. If "instant" abilities were legitimately instant, you wouldn't have the aforementioned issue in PVP, for example.

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even just trying to chase after a mob some retard bard pulled and is running around like a headless chicken on meth
especially as drg, all the animation delay

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Originally Posted by Ele_Pls

Do you have it on a macro? 'Cause that delays it even further, it's really frustrating to see Hallowed/Holmgang macros lol. But yeah, I find that there's a timing that you need to get used to.

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Are you 100% sure about this? Macros are slower even if the attack is the 1st line of the macro? Im not doubting you I am genuinely wonderingif this is correct. Has someone tested this?

Macros will wait for your castbar/GCD to be completely at 100% before they can be fired and its checked on client side, so lag is a factor.
Without a macro, you can start casting the next spell /action a bit before it is at 100%.

Also, lets say you macro Foresight.
Without a macro, you can press foresight while you are on GCD, and foresight will be activated right when your GCD finishes. (Thats reffered to as skill queueing)
A macroed forsight can only be pressed when you are not on GCD.
Same goes for any oGCD ability.

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

even just trying to chase after a mob some retard bard pulled and is running around like a headless chicken on meth
especially as drg, all the animation delay

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This is a latency problem. Not a skill problem. You hit the button on your client and it starts animation before the message gets to the server. Since your char position is not exactly where it is on the server, (you are in range chasing on your client, but server has you a step behind cuz latency) when the return message comes back to inform your client you were not in fact in range to execute that action, it never happened and your skill cancel is you pc acknowledging that.

Can be an issue, but an unrelated one to skills animation delay.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

Macros will wait for your castbar/GCD to be completely at 100% before they can be fired and its checked on client side, so lag is a factor.
Without a macro, you can start casting the next spell /action a bit before it is at 100%.

Also, lets say you macro Foresight.
Without a macro, you can press foresight while you are on GCD, and foresight will be activated right when your GCD finishes. (Thats reffered to as skill queueing)
A macroed forsight can only be pressed when you are not on GCD.
Same goes for any oGCD ability.

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Thank you, that explains some things for me. Especially for my raise macro. Sigh, I will miss all the macros I will be killing tonight (´Д｀)

I think Lustrate is the fastest, followed by Holm, then Bene and finally HG. These are supposed to be the OH SNAP instant activations.. but Ive failed more HGs and Benes then Holms.. and Lusties never fail to land on time. Not sure why there is such a delay on Bene and HG.

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Originally Posted by Zalestra

Are you 100% sure about this? Macros are slower even if the attack is the 1st line of the macro? Im not doubting you I am genuinely wonderingif this is correct. Has someone tested this?

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Normally, when you press one ability button close enough to your current ability being done (and the GCD being valid), the network 'queues' your ability input and fires it as soon as possible. Macros ignore this queueing function, making them less-responsive.

In theory a macro could be as fast as using the button directly, but you would have to do it on the exact frame that the network decides that the ability usage would be valid.

Basically, if responsiveness is your priority, don't macro anything you want fast access to. Definitely don't macro anything off the GCD that you need to reliably be able to animation-cancel on the first valid frame.