Please Fix Slaughter

Slaughter in its current state is still a broken mess. There are several issues, but two major ones stick out.

Cometeor is still far too overpowered. Even after the nerf, a group of casters can still dominate any Slaughter round by stacking their cometeors. When 6 cometeors go off at the same time, anyone in the spread is dead and there is zero defense against it. Any easy fix would be to put a buff up on any player that is hit with a limit break that grants a 5 second immunity to additional limit break damage.

cont.

The second issue is that whenever two grand companies decide to teamup against the third company, there is nothing the third company can do to fight back. In a Secure match, if two GCs gang up on one, it becomes very difficult for the third GC, but with sound strategy they can still counter attack. For example, if Adder and Maelstrom are both fighting at the Flame Outpost, the Immortal Flames can try to sneak by and capture the undefended Serpent and Storm Outposts. In Slaughter, the best strategy that a teamed-up on grand company can employ is to hope that by the time they respawn the other two companies will be fighting each other. I understand that this issue is harder to fix. One solution could be to add more objectives out of the middle of the map, for example a second spawn for the drones at Markets, Temple and Manor. If two GC's gang up on the third, the third should be able to fall back and take a different objective, rather than having to just accept their inevitable loss.

Adding more monsters won't do jack.

They learnt, but very slowly. They didn't make a NEW MAP for slaughter. Thats the problem. The current map is OK for Secure, but for slaughter.. its terribly designed. You can only hope in 3.0, the map fits the mode.

The map should make teams play tactically, not some faking node that gives you a buff. Buffs should be left for assists/kills.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

In Slaughter, the best strategy that a teamed-up on grand company can employ is to hope that by the time they respawn the other two companies will be fighting each other.

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This is my biggest problem with Slaughter. Especially in 8v8v8, there is nothing you can do if you get double-teamed.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

When 6 cometeors go off at the same time, anyone in the spread is dead and there is zero defense against it. Any easy fix would be...

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An even easier fix is to spread out. If you backpedal to the ramp then you die. Cometeors are meant to kill clusters of people.

Both events are arguably avoidable.

Cometeor: If you let 5 or 6 casters of an opposing faction build up to battle high/fever, you deserve to get wiped. They earned those lb kills.

Double Teamed: from my experience 3 times out of 5, a team gets doubletapped because they positioned poorly, looking like easy kills for both the other GCs.

Whether you're getting doubleteamed or not, whenever you take direct damage, break range.. make them work hard for the kill.. They'll give up n switch to a different target if you make them work for it.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Both events are arguably avoidable.

Cometeor: If you let 5 or 6 casters of an opposing faction build up to battle high/fever, you deserve to get wiped. They earned those lb kills.

Double Teamed: from my experience 3 times out of 5, a team gets doubletapped because they positioned poorly, looking like easy kills for both the other GCs.

Whether you're getting doubleteamed or not, whenever you take direct damage, break range.. make them work hard for the kill.. They'll give up n switch to a different target if you make them work for it.

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Best answer by far. WHINER tHREAD ALERT anyway though.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Double Teamed: from my experience 3 times out of 5, a team gets doubletapped because they positioned poorly, looking like easy kills for both the other GCs.

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There is no avoiding getting double teamed with three factions when participating in battle. If two factions are fighting with each other the third faction has to pick one, if the third faction divides up then the other two faction will focus on them as they have the numbers advantage (higher success rate), thus being teamed by the other two factions. The only way a faction can avoid getting double teamed is if they remove themselves entirely from battle making the other two factions fight each other, in which case generally the faction that retreats loses due to lack of points.

Oh, please. Slaughter should not have a 1vs1vs1 anyway. It's pointless and makes win trading so easy, especially since guilds can just work together with no prob. Win trade is one thing when 1vs1, both agreed to it. If a guild joins on two sides and just helps each other out against the third, that's a different thing.

There should be no premades anyway or separated from the randoms.

@ Cometeors:
You don't need a single kill to start - you will get them with the first wave. Also it's VERY easy to avoid dying as a RDPS. Just stay with your group. You can fall back, if some are insane enough to follow into your third of the arena, they will get slaughtered there. So stop crying about it. Cometeor is stupid, especially combined with mass sleep/freeze and the lag many people got.

I got zero lag and still there are cometeors you can't dodge, because the other guy (and there are ways to provoke this) got such lag, that the server gets problems with sending the AoE marker to you.

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Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

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rofl you honestly think there is win trading going on in Slaughter?

I swear some peoples delusions go deep.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

rofl you honestly think there is win trading going on in Slaughter?

I swear some peoples delusions go deep.

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You should read his other post in another thread... just as ridiculous:

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Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

Just remove achievements and mounts or make them buyable otherwise. PvP will be gone then anyway (it even now almost is, you can't enter arena and frontlines take forever). How many are playing them for fun?

PvP is full of bots, win traders, leechers, roulette players (since 100/40 a day in a few minutes is nice to have), who don't care and even cheaters (no, I won't link to hacks, but of course EVERY MMO got them). This just means: it's no PvP at all...

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Originally Posted by Niroken

There is no avoiding getting double teamed with three factions when participating in battle. If two factions are fighting with each other the third faction has to pick one, if the third faction divides up then the other two faction will focus on them as they have the numbers advantage (higher success rate), thus being teamed by the other two factions. The only way a faction can avoid getting double teamed is if they remove themselves entirely from battle making the other two factions fight each other, in which case generally the faction that retreats loses due to lack of points.

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It's not that you can completely avoid getting double teamed. That's not what he is trying to say.

You have to divide your forces. You have to attack both sides equally and not give up ground. It is the positioning of your raid that makes you the most susceptible. If you are spread out then you look like a bigger force and will naturally keep the other teams backed off. If you shrink into a tiny cluster then teams will close in because you look small and weak. This is basic strategy. This is mother nature. This is why guys stick out their chests and stretch like gorillas when they see a good looking girl.

Until the day that premades of more than, say, 3-4 people aren't matched up against randoms anymore, I support nerfing Cometeor. That 5 second LB immunity after getting hit by an LB someone suggested in this thread sounded rather good to me. That way, Cometeor can stay strong and really useful when used correctly, while removing the cheap instant kill crap premades are so happily abusing all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Until the day that premades of more than, say, 3-4 people aren't matched up against randoms anymore, I support nerfing Cometeor. That 5 second LB immunity after getting hit by an LB someone suggested in this thread sounded rather good to me. That way, Cometeor can stay strong and really useful when used correctly, while removing the cheap instant kill crap premades are so happily abusing all over the place.

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Would that apply per faction or per character? I can see a huge amount of whining if one GC didnt get a load of kills because they cast thier LB on a low hp group immune to LBs from the other GCs cometeor

I'm not arguing for or against this, just food for thought on the idea

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

rofl you honestly think there is win trading going on in Slaughter?

I swear some peoples delusions go deep.

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Exactly, like some pvp shadow organization governs the Slaughter queue lol. Until they apply ranked matches, there's no reason premades and pugs should be separated. I repeat; WHINER THREAD ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The most interesting thing is that it doesn't matter what you do for the first 100 points, any team that is doing well at the start will get double-teamed and wiped, multiple times if needed.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

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I agree that at times double teaming seems to be just random trolling. But like I said before majority of the time the team getting doubleteamed had it coming.

You're a dps right: a BLM. You burn an entire MP worth of Fire 1s on a target but they don't die - you switch to a new target - you switch until you find one that isn't getting healed through your damage or is too stupid to not break range.

Now imagine all 50+ dps in the match doing the exact same target cycling. Evantually the needle drops.

one thing i have noticed on the PVP threads when you bring up the fact it is broken or point out premeds are causing th fights to become unfair the same 3 people scream WHINER ALERT and they normally go with the pre-mades to the point where they have a lot of wins, they are wining so hard it has locked other threads up because of it because they don't want to have a chance of losing there shallow victory,

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

one thing i have noticed on the PVP threads when you bring up the fact it is broken or point out premeds are causing th fights to become unfair the same 3 people scream WHINER ALERT and they normally go with the pre-mades to the point where they have a lot of wins, they are wining so hard it has locked other threads up because of it because they don't want to have a chance of losing there shallow victory,

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Thats because, one: we're beating a dead horse. There are already dozens of threads about Slaughter being broken, and on top of this, no one has constructive criticism, its just "waaa! waaa! I keep losing! Slaughter sucks!" And two: the people that are whining about premades and slaughter in some cases are just lazy. Premades arent unfair, and if you're tired of losing to them make your own, and if you're not proactively trying to lead your team and expecting a win you dont deserve a comment because you arent even trying.

Premades are not unfair but I feel that the main issue is Cometeor-in-nearly-all-caster premades. My group does really well in Slaughter but it is still a problem that needs to be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

If you shrink into a tiny cluster then teams will close in because you look small and weak.

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And this also screams "cometor spam us asap" :P

Slaughter dont need just a few fixes, it basicly needs huge changes in almost every aspect you can think of. That game mode was announced as a big pvp update, but its clearly the most unbalanced pvp content i have seen for a long time. Its a huge messing up and feels like one of the devs did put it together in one day of work. I really enjoyed secure so far, because that does have some strategy in it, but sadly since they released the pre beta slaughter in 2.5 i havent got in any secure game so far. I was kinda adicted to pvp, played around 20-30 games a week, but i already stopped around two weeks ago. Because Slaughter requires zero strategy and is just a zergfest when it comes down to one point. I dont know, but in my opinion that looks like Square didnt really care about pvp at all. I know this is a pve game and thats fine, but if they want to include pvp they should care about it or screw it out of the game. The current status of pvp in this game is really bad.

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

The most interesting thing is that it doesn't matter what you do for the first 100 points, any team that is doing well at the start will get double-teamed and wiped, multiple times if needed.

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Too bad exactly this does not happen. It's 2vs1 from the start and if it stands 21:21:5 (from 30), those two 21 still ignore each other.

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Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

Too bad exactly this does not happen. It's 2vs1 from the start and if it stands 21:21:5 (from 30), those two 21 still ignore each other.

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Well, I was talking about 72 matches. But even in 24 ones two leading teams taking it out on the weaker one is something I see very rarely.

I personally think there should be some kind of limit to Cometeors in 72 matches, e.g. don't make it charge faster with more K.O.s and receive the damage buff. It's just too easy to rack up kill with it. I'd say remove both of these things from 72 matches. Maybe still keep battlehigh/-fever as it's the only comeback mechanic you have after you destroyed all nodes.

Also, we need a new map for 72 Slaughter.

Cometeor's biggest problem is that when its spammed there is little room for counter play, likewise melee LB has a similar issue. That the damage is so high, that most classes will be one shot leaving no room for counter play. A lack of counter play is bad for a competitive environment. What SE needs do change how both Cometeor and Raw Destruction damage works. Instead of full damage upfront, it can deal 50% direct damage and the other 50% damage takes the form of a DoT. That way the counter play is the DoT can be removed. If not you slowly die.

Both LBs will still be powerful but now players will have the ability to counter them.

My main problem is that even if I, or my friend, am out of cometeor by a long shot we still get hit by it. I haven't had this problem with any other instances. Does anyone else have this problem?

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Originally Posted by ViciousDreamer

My main problem is that even if I, or my friend, am out of cometeor by a long shot we still get hit by it. I haven't had this problem with any other instances. Does anyone else have this problem?

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Yep I have the same problem. Even if I move out of cometeor mid cast I still get hit by it. I can sprint out of it and still get hit by it a couple seconds later. Afaik, cometeor is the only skill that does this. Its like there is a latency issue between the skill cast time and actual animation.

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Originally Posted by ViciousDreamer

My main problem is that even if I, or my friend, am out of cometeor by a long shot we still get hit by it. I haven't had this problem with any other instances. Does anyone else have this problem?

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It's like old Titan fights. Whatever fix the performed on PVE duties, it looks like that didn't get brought forward into PVP.

I love it when I cast Cometor from beyond the grave, it's like the ultimate revenge when I die miscast but it goes off anyway.

They cannot fix slaughter mode without a new map.

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Originally Posted by AntiSocialPanda

Thats because, one: we're beating a dead horse. There are already dozens of threads about Slaughter being broken, and on top of this, no one has constructive criticism, its just "waaa! waaa! I keep losing! Slaughter sucks!" And two: the people that are whining about premades and slaughter in some cases are just lazy. Premades arent unfair, and if you're tired of losing to them make your own, and if you're not proactively trying to lead your team and expecting a win you dont deserve a comment because you arent even trying.

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Thank you, exactly what I mean^^^

Best way to fix it is to throw out the PVE crap. I pvp to PVP not PVE. Make a hardcore match, made of 3 rounds, 3 mins long. the team with the most kills wins a the round, win 2 rounds game over.
If every team wins a round it goes into sudden Death and everyone only has 1 life, players are marked so no one can hide.

/vote to implement

I think they add the PvE stuff in there so that there's a chance to catch up if you don't do well on the PvP side of things.

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Originally Posted by azlewood

Best way to fix it is to throw out the PVE crap. I pvp to PVP not PVE. Make a hardcore match, made of 3 rounds, 3 mins long. the team with the most kills wins a the round, win 2 rounds game over.
If every team wins a round it goes into sudden Death and everyone only has 1 life, players are marked so no one can hide.

/vote to implement

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That would actually make it worse.

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Originally Posted by Domira

That would actually make it worse.

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uh huh, so much worse lol.