Do I really need all DOH Classes to craft 3* and 4*

I currently have CRP, ALC, WVR, and CUL at 50. I wanted to try to get my Master Book II for CUL. Is it possible to get it using my current stats 425 craft 395 control and 346 cp (w/o) food and w/o the other 50 xclass skills? I have the others left at 15.

You're shooting yourself without ARM. You NEED Piece by Piece, no ifs, buts, or elses.

The rest aren't as important, but if you end up with the spare CP, Innovation allows you to spend an extra step to bait a Good/Excellent proc too.

ARM definitely, BSM's Ingenuity II is also useful for 3 star, and debatable on 4 star (most ppl don't seem to use it), however, like innovation, if you have the cp it can be used to bait a good/excellent condition.

For cross class skills, no. I don't use Ingenuity 2 (ING 1 works just fine for my purposes). Waste Not 2 isn't very good. Piece by piece is very helpful for obtaining master 2 books (believe me, you will need all the help you can get on those) and is almost a necessity for crafting 3-4* furniture, but everything else I use rapid synth. Innovation is pretty nice. It is not a game changer like Byregot's, but it is worth getting.

One other issue is that you will need materials made by other crafting classes, and you may pay a lot more to buy them than to make them yourself.

http://ffxivrealm.com/guides/ff14-ad...ie-tsukino.39/

great guide

I'm going to say yes. Being BiS in all classes makes crafting so much more enjoyable. You can get items cheaper and build them from the ground up. Not having your cross class, and not being able to buy/gather the base matts will put you at a huge disadvantage, you'll be sayin, "How can they make it so cheap" It's because they don't have to buy anything. They gather matts and craft from the ground up.

With Ixali dailies and Grand Company turn in quests being an efficient way to get gil/seals AND massive amounts of experience, there's no reason not to hit 50 in all your classes.

Why play crafting on hard mode?

At this point I would recommend getting Lucis before MB 2 in cases where you didn't luck into your 3 HQ turn ins getting your supra.

Good luck mass producing food for the hungry masses!

Thank you very much guys. Apparently someone in our FC made the master book II attempt with only GSM and CRP as his 50 DOH while others are left at 15. He made it with 16 attempts. I don't think I can waste that much of money. Lol.

Anyway, I'll be levelling my ARM then get lucis first before attempting Master Book II.

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Originally Posted by Flinx

Anyway, I'll be levelling my ARM then get lucis first before attempting Master Book II.

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A piece of advice: In order to get your Lucis, you must first get your Supra. In order to get your Supra, you require five NQ of the same item that takes three HQ to get the book.

So, when trying to make your Supra, TRY to HQ the items. If you manage to craft three HQ before you wind up with five NQ, then BAM, you have your book! If you don't manage to craft three HQ, well, you haven't lost anything. Go ahead and get your Lucis, then continue trying.

Supra can be obtained using the waste products from attempting to get the Mastercraft II book.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

A piece of advice: In order to get your Lucis, you must first get your Supra. In order to get your Supra, you require five NQ of the same item that takes three HQ to get the book.

So, when trying to make your Supra, TRY to HQ the items. If you manage to craft three HQ before you wind up with five NQ, then BAM, you have your book! If you don't manage to craft three HQ, well, you haven't lost anything. Go ahead and get your Lucis, then continue trying.

Supra can be obtained using the waste products from attempting to get the Mastercraft II book.

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Yep exactly...

I finally got my chantico lucis. I tried to HQ as much when i was doing my supra. Too bad nothing became HQ. Since i was only able to make it to about 20 to 30% quality. Had a hard time improving the progress due to lack of pbp. I guess i'll tey again when i have that skill.

In my opinion, the classes you want/need for 3* and 4* crafts:

1. CUL 37 (required)
2. CRP 50 (absolutely required)
3. WVR 50 (possibly not required, but I consider it to be. My most used and loved skill of all time)
4. ALC 50 (gives you +28-42 CP on high end synths - that's a lot of CP, essentially required for my 4* crafts and really handy for my 3*s)
5. BSM 50 (major Progress/Quality buff for 3* ONLY - do NOT use in 4* crafts, where it has no effect)
6. LTW 15 (very nice for 3* crafts only - I don't use it in 4* at all)
7. ARM 15 (for 4* crafts only - rapid is pretty much required for any 4* rotation I've seen)
8. ARM 50 (practically required for the Master Book II tokens, but only saves you one step on other 3* rotations, and I never use it on 4* rotations. Skippable... if you can get the books without it)
9. GSM 50 (nice quality boost on your BB and great padding when fishing for Good/Excellent, but not required by any means)
10. CUL 50 (nice for Master Book II turnins and little else)

I use this rotation for the Master books. It's very good, but requires 448 Craftsmanship, 390 CP, CUL 50, CRP 50, ALC 50, ARM 50, BSM 50, WVR 50, LTW 15, and really benefits from GSM 50. I don't know what I'd do for that rotation without ARM 50 or BSM 50...

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

[*]ARM 50 (practically required for the Master Book II tokens, but only saves you one step on other 3* rotations, and I never use it on 4* rotations. Skippable... if you can get the books without it)

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I'm not sure what 4* rotations you are using but Piece by Piece is used in almost every rotation I've seen, unless you are spamming Rapid Synth which I would not suggest. Almost every 4* rotation I've seen does 3 x PbP, 1 x RS and 1 X CSII. But you are right that it is necessary for the Master book II tokens.

My current rotation for progress (2.5 Bis without Apron - I still cant decide I want to go with control or craftsmanship meld ) >_<

CZ - IQ - PBP - PBP - ING II - SH II - RS- CSII for 586

CZ - IQ - PBP - PBP - ING II - SH II - RS for 445

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Originally Posted by Shinzoku

I'm not sure what 4* rotations you are using but Piece by Piece is used in almost every rotation I've seen, unless you are spamming Rapid Synth which I would not suggest. Almost every 4* rotation I've seen does 3 x PbP, 1 x RS and 1 X CSII. But you are right that it is necessary for the Master book II tokens.

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My (pre-lucis) rotation that I prefer is 4x RS 1x CS2. It costs 45 less CP than your rotation, which is quite a lot of savings. Of course, I don't do too many 4* synths. Still, saying it's "required" for 4* synths is simply not true, since I haven't even used it and have made 15 HQ 4* items (out of 16 attempts) using 4x RS.

There's a difference between something being slightly better, as your rotation might be, and saying something is required.


Also, I didn't say my 4* rotations were the absolute, optimized best, only that I have never used PbP in a 4* rotation, which is a true statement.

I never said it was absolutely required but I will concede your point. I just like eliminating as much RNG as possible, which RS certainly is. Since most of these 4* recipes are heavily reliant on using ToT whenever possible (unavoidable RNG unfortunately), you should "potentially" get back more than the 45 CP you are saving from using RS.

As with all crafts, there are always going to be multiple rotations, and 4* crafting is about reacting to what you are given. Also, I like to throw in at least 1 WN I, which I'm sure not everyone does. Ultimately, whatever works for any given person is what they should use :)

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Originally Posted by Shinzoku

I never said it was absolutely required but I will concede your point. I just like eliminating as much RNG as possible, which RS certainly is. Since most of these 4* recipes are heavily reliant on using ToT whenever possible (unavoidable RNG unfortunately), you should "potentially" get back more than the 45 CP you are saving from using RS.

As with all crafts, there are always going to be multiple rotations, and 4* crafting is about reacting to what you are given. Also, I like to throw in at least 1 WN I, which I'm sure not everyone does. Ultimately, whatever works for any given person is what they should use :)

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Exactly :) We endgame crafters have to be careful when giving advice of confusing stuff we really love having with stuff that is really needed. While I want to say to new crafters, "Omg, CZ is so awesome! I couldn't live without it!", that isn't actually true. I don't even use CZ in my 2* 100% 1-button rotation (my most used macro by far), and I can HQ 3* with or without bouillabaisse, so I can do it without CZ.

I think that my general advice of getting WVR to 50 asap is also biased there - I could probably deal without CS2 with many of my synths. I just don't want to. Ever. I do Ixali turn-ins as WVR just so I can use CS2, I like it that much. As a random note, CS2, CS2 gives the exact same progress as SS, CS (both are 240%), showing that CS2 is really just saving me 15 CP and I shouldn't be valuing it so much more than CZ just because I'm in love with it (don't tell my wife).



I used to hate using RS because RNG, until I realized that I was using HT, and HT has the same chance of success. PbP can often be replaced by RS and vice versa (to an extent), just like HT can be replaced by BT. PbP costs 15 CP, but has a 100% success rate, whereas RS has an 80% success rate. BT costs 18 CP, but has a 100% success rate, whereas HT has an 80% success rate. You frontload your CP costs, spending 15-45 CP early on to replace 80% actions with 100% actions. I prefer spending 18-54 CP at the end of the synth to replace 80% actions with 100% actions. Your way is cheaper, but my way allows for more flexibility based on Tricks of the Trade procs.

Your way isn't really less RNG, but it does get a CP discount by committing to getting a certain amount of CP back during the synth. Mine assumes less about the number of Tricks procs, but it costs more CP to gain the same benefit. So, if anything, I'd argue that my way is slightly less risky and relies a bit less on RNG, while your way has a better payout in exchange for slightly more risk.

Never though of it that way but it makes sense. And I agree with you that end-game crafters should be wary when doling out advice. I see so many of these help threads, but honestly, all the info is available online on various websites and guides. New crafters should do more research, like I did back in 2.0-2.1. I can't really even remember what my 2* rotations were before my current stats. I found a 1* 40 dura macro that I love and still use, which now that my stats have increased I can use for 2* 40 dura mats like vanya silk, etc. I don't have a macro for the 80 dura synths but I'm pretty sure I could make one using no HTes, which a lower geared crafter could not do.

I think one thing 100% of crafters will agree is an ABSOLUTE MUST is our crafting lb: the ever mighty Byregot's Blessing!

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

In my opinion, the classes you want/need for 3* and 4* crafts:[list=1]


.

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I'm going to assume that you just forgot to mention Alchemy 15, Tricks Of The Trade for 3* and 4* crafts.

I'd also like to point out that ING2 does in fact work on 4star crafts, it adds approx 10% to your progress skills and it seems to add a little to the effect on Touch skills. Not that I advocate using it unless you really need to.

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Originally Posted by Shinzoku

I found a 1* 40 dura macro that I love and still use, which now that my stats have increased I can use for 2* 40 dura mats like vanya silk, etc. I don't have a macro for the 80 dura synths but I'm pretty sure I could make one using no HTes, which a lower geared crafter could not do.

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This is what I now use for all 1-2* 40/80 durability (except master book ones). I do have Lucis but even without it still works with 451 craft 409 control and 338CP. It only HQ's about 95% of 2star with NQ materials, but that's the cost of a 1 button macro and easily fixed using more CP (I'm too cheap for CP food!)

/action "Comfort Zone" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Inner Quiet" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Steady Hand II" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Master's Mend" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Steady Hand ii" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Ingenuity II" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Standard Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Great Strides" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Byregot's Blessing" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Careful Synthesis II" <me> <wait.3>
/action "Careful Synthesis II" <me>

My macro is very similar, although I have 6 BTs in there and I use manipulation instead of MMI.

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Originally Posted by Darra

I'm going to assume that you just forgot to mention Alchemy 15, Tricks Of The Trade for 3* and 4* crafts.

I'd also like to point out that ING2 does in fact work on 4star crafts, it adds approx 10% to your progress skills and it seems to add a little to the effect on Touch skills. Not that I advocate using it unless you really need to.

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Sorry, my post was quick and not very clear. I wasn't giving an order or anything. I was suggesting final levels of skills and saying which are skippable. I recommended getting ALC to 50, which requires you to get the ALC 15 skill along the way. For, say, CUL, I was saying that you really need the CUL 37 skill, but the CUL 50 skill is skippable. Same with ARM - you can pretty much always rearrange your progress moves to not need PbP (usually replacing PbP with RS), or just use 10 extra durability. I consider PbP to be useful but skippable. I don't really see CZ that way.

Finally got my master book II for CUL after so many failures. They keys skills 50 that I used were Byregot, CZ, PbP, and of course Reclaim. None of my reclaim failed but I was quite unlucky baiting good/excellent conditions for my Byregot so I ended up wasting quite a bit of FC IIIs due to the craft turning to NQ.

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Originally Posted by Flinx

Finally got my master book II for CUL after so many failures. They keys skills 50 that I used were Byregot, CZ, PbP, and of course Reclaim. None of my reclaim failed but I was quite unlucky baiting good/excellent conditions for my Byregot so I ended up wasting quite a bit of FC IIIs due to the craft turning to NQ.

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I have had some tough luck getting my last few master 2 books. I've been getting my HQ % up to the 64-84% range, largely with normal condition on Byregot's, and been getting more NQ than HQ. I am almost done, though. Just need one more HQ for CUL.