.
Certain Balance Changes will need to accompany many/all of these changes, but they're the right changes for PVP overall IMO.
1) Cast-Interruption needs its own Diminishing Returns.
Say, after 3 spells are interrupted, a caster is immune from Cast-Interruption for 3 seconds (with a 15 second internal cooldown or something).
Playing a Caster just isn't fun when stray arrows keep pegging you. Equanimity & Surecast aren't good enough solutions. And yes, I know how to position properly, to kite melee opponents, & to time my interruption-immunity spells--it's still not that easy.
Ultimately, this change would promote game health & joy--a lot more people would hate PVP less if they didn't feel like they could never get a cast off.
2) Non-Tank Melee DPS need their PVP Gear defensive values increased across the board (Slaughter Mode ONLY).
I actually main MNK/NIN for PVP, I know the struggle. I know to play very opportunistically & weave in & out of combat appropriately. But its still a bit too harsh on us, even with full high-end PVP Fending accessories equipped.
If just for Slaughter, this would work wonders.
This too would benefit game health & joy--a lot less people would rage that they can't do anything as a melee (or how they explain they basically just have to sit on the sidelines until they're dead).
3) Certain CC's need even harsher Diminishing Returns.
Looking at you Bind/Sleep. The idea here, and with all of them, is PLAYER FREEDOM. More action, less inaction.
4) the Heliodrome needs to break Sleep.
It currently doesn't which gives BLM comps a huge edge on the Heliodrome.
To reiterate, I'm not 'truly' asking for buffs to any particular role... yes, melee's would need better defenses but that's simply due to having to counter-balance the core, mechanical design change. In the blue disclaimer at the start of this post, I make it clear that re-balancing would be necessary to accompany such changes. This suggestion is merely suggesting ways in which to make PVP more healthy and fun.
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02-02-2015, 05:12 PMBigPapaSmurfCast-Interruption & Diminishing Returns - Can we please see changes to these?
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02-03-2015, 08:28 AMHiruke
I definitely hate the constant interruption (wish it either went a more WoW-route with extending cast time when hit or hits only had a chance to interrupt like in PvE). PvP seems designed around the concept that casters are some kind of nightmare creatures that will overwhelm everything with ease.
And yes, CC's are ridiculous in PvP. No one wants to spend all their time bound/slept. The huge focus on CC is garbage. People want to win/lose based on doing things, not on being CC'd to death.
These two changes would need to happen hand in hand, because letting folks cast more freely with CC being so powerful would also be garbage. -
02-03-2015, 09:07 AMMendalas
I agree with your point about casting being interrupted every hit. That is absolutely ridiculous... Who the hell thought that was a good idea? In terms of enjoyment, as a white mage, I thoroughly despise that part of pvp; (Oh there is a bard on me, guess it's time to spam regen?) I mean on top of stuns, silences, knock backs, etc. we can only cast if A. we are not being hit or B. we have equanimity or surecast available (equ on a long cd, and surecast is used even if you are stunned/silenced in the middle of the spell.)
It pretty much tells a tank/dps that all they have to do is auto-attack a healer so they can't cast and they win. I pvp'ed in WoW for years as a feral druid and absolutely loved it. I was able to kill healers with skillful play, not just auto attacking them to death while they are not able to cast. In WoW healers were strong but definitely still vulnerable even though they could cast when being hit. Certain dps even had a "kick" mechanic that would interrupt a spell being cast. I certainly liked this mechanic way better than FFXIV's perma-interrupt. You could even fake cast to draw the kick out, then just free cast once it was blown. Also, a well timed stun could apply just enough pressure to blow a healers long cd's / kill them along with good positioning and a skillful rotation (feral's never had an interrupt mechanic through vanilla, BC, and WotLK when I played, but got a stun in bc/wotlk at least).
Why punish casters so much to the point where it is not enjoyable? Sure I have had some good times pvp'ing in this game with friends, but in a random pug where the team does not coordinate or peal for you, it just plain sucks. Even if the only thing you change is not being interrupted while casting anymore, or at least nerf it a bit, I would be happy. Why else would there be cc's in the game? It seems that since healers can be interrupted while casting, you don't even need the damn cc's, it's just over kill. Sure i could change jobs for pvp, but its the principle that bothers me. I main whm in this game and I would like to enjoy every aspect of the game as a whm.
As soon as pvp came out and I read that casters would be interupted upon being attacked with ANYTHING I just face-palmed. I knew that if they didn't change that soon I would not ever pvp. Since slaughter mode came out, it has been a bit better for healers since we don't get focused as much as secure or the wolve's den when that was popular. But I still despise how it is setup for healers in general.
I love playing white mage in this game, always have since the first version came out back in 2010, but healing in pvp is just stupid sometimes. -
02-03-2015, 10:14 AMDomira
1. Would require casters damage and healing potency be changed. How would you feel if melee went immune to range damage every 3 seconds with a 15 second cd?
2. You are asking for dps to become more tank like, this is like asking for tanks to have better base damage. How do tanks get better dmg in pvp? By using str gear. So dps if they want to be more tanky should wear vit accessories.
3. Bind and Sleep need to be looked at. The rest are fine because the duration of the debuffs are short. -
02-03-2015, 11:39 AMMendalasIf I understood him correctly, he meant that casting would not be interrupted for 3 seconds once diminishing returns had reached it's peak (after 3 times of being interrupted), Not that we would be immune to all damage for 3 seconds. This was my main point as well, while I agree that the DR would help for this, I think it should be either casting push-back like WoW (not interrupted EVERY SINGLE ATTACK ON YOU), or no interruption at all and add additional abilities for tank/dps to interrupt the spells skillfully i.e. "kick" like rogues had in WoW. This would foster skillful play instead of any dps being able to simply AUTO ATTACK YOU INFINITELY and interrupt you every time (or the majority of the time since the long cd's on our abilities). If you use "kick" and interrupt the healer when he's at half health and throw them off guard, it applies plenty of pressure and is way more skillful in my opinion. I don't want to be limited to using a long ass cd just to be able to cast. I am a damn caster and I can't cast while being auto attacked. It's just a dumb idea from an enjoyment perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domira
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02-03-2015, 12:55 PMStouterTaruImagine sleep/bind/stun lasting the full duration every time, this is what happens with spell interruption. And it's every single attack, not just a long cast spell that can be easily interrupted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domira
Tank skills don't really do anything for tanking, for a tank to actually be a tank in PvP they need some kind of target steal for the opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domira
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02-03-2015, 01:19 PMDoubleD
Casters so OP in slaughter as it is and still want more buffs. Look at the damage output and kills on the scoreboard after games and rethink if you truly need to be stronger than you are already.
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02-03-2015, 04:49 PMEvangela
make everyone immune to magic attack after 3 hits too.
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02-03-2015, 06:09 PMBigPapaSmurf1. Read the blue text in the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domira
2. Yeah, because clearly if many more casts are getting through, that means an increase in spell-caster DPS. I'm aware of how the accessories work, thanks. It naturally follows that a cast-frequency buff to enemy spellcasters would merit a m. defense buff to squishy melee's in order to counter-balance. Yes, healing would be affected too, hence the BLUE TEXT.
...like the poster above, read the blue disclaimer in the OP...Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleD
...also, read the portion where I proposed a defensive buff to squishy melee's...
If you contextually grasp what I'm getting at, it's not about buffing anyone, it's about reworking a core PVP mechanic which merits a holistic rebalance.
The idea is to make PVP more action-packed (in a positive way) & less annoying/frustrating/inactive.
Every Job would have more freedom which would be a huge net positive for PVP. -
02-03-2015, 09:50 PMMendalasExactly what I want to see. Do what you have to do as far as re-balancing, I just hate the mechanic of spell interruption as it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapaSmurf
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02-04-2015, 05:07 AMBigPapaSmurfYeah, it makes PVP pretty painfully un-fun (no offense meant SE, I mean that for myself).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendalas
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02-04-2015, 06:09 AMhallenaCasters are strong in slaughters because we can hide behind 23 other players. You'll notice if you queu late at night and slaughter is 8v8v8, its back to melees being invincible like secureQuote:
Originally Posted by DoubleD
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02-04-2015, 08:50 PMAntiSocialPanda
Instead of caster damage being nerfed or melees being buffed or immunities to this and that; we need a complete restructuring of jobs. Every job needs to be reworked from the ground up: damage, healing, crowd control, spells, cool downs, interrupts, etc... as of now, fixing one thing will only break another. I dont want to rage and yell because Square has absolutely no experience in the pvp department, most of their games are pve focused. So I dont think it would be fair to yell at them for something they have absolutely no skill with. I can only hope 3.0 is better or I'll have to call it quits. Preferably Square could seek outside help from a company that HAS experience with pvp games.