Wolves den needs more insentive

I'm not a fan of frontlines. I've never really been a fan of the large scale battles like that. Great for those that like it, but I prefer something more along the lines of 8v8 and 4v4. FFXIV offers a 4v4 but it seems no one queues for it. I try to play it and I never get a pop. Longest I've sat in a queue was 2 hours. Frontlines, especially the roulette one, seems to pop quickly, rarely wait more than 10 minutes which I would assume is because of the soldiery and poetics reward. I get that 4v4 are shorter matches, but I really think they should get similar rewards to get more people to want to queue for it.

As it stands right now I may just not bother with pvp at all since I don't care for frontlines, so it would be nice if SE did something to get the wolves den queue to pop.

Yes please I really miss my 4v4 Deathmatches, 100x more fun

Just here for the misspelling.

every time I queue for Frontlines i wait 50-60 min. O.o

Ppl got sick of 4v4 and they wanted more ppl and a bigger playfield so it wouldn't be that cluster zerg healer/ caster 1st 4v4 that we all know and love/ hate. Now that we got these things ppl want 4v4 again. which one is it guys?
I always liked WD but kinda gave up in progressing as ppl wintraded ( remember when it was the hot thing to do to get to 30? ) and gear fluctuated. So i'm down for reviving WD but i'm pretty sure ppl just gonna ask for more FL once they update the 4v4.

Do we really want Square incentivizing people into PvP? Let think about this for a bit. Take a look at the people that do relic. Square is leading them around like players lead the chocobo PS4 exclusive mount. The reward requires jumping through many ridiculous hoops. Many of them are miserable. They're running the same dungeon 20, 30, or even 40 times. They're sick of it; they're sick of doing content they have no interest in. And with that, they bring shitty attitudes. A lot of people do not like PvP. Do you really want these people in a PvP zone?

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

Do we really want Square incentivizing people into PvP? Let think about this for a bit. Take a look at the people that do relic. Square is leading them around like players lead the chocobo PS4 exclusive mount. The reward requires jumping through many ridiculous hoops. Many of them are miserable. They're running the same dungeon 20, 30, or even 40 times. They're sick of it; they're sick of doing content they have no interest in. And with that, they bring shitty attitudes. A lot of people do not like PvP. Do you really want these people in a PvP zone?

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This entire post doesn't make sense to me. If someone doesn't like pvp they just wont do it. Whats forcing them to pvp?

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

This entire post doesn't make sense to me. If someone doesn't like pvp they just wont do it. Whats forcing them to pvp?

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Because they're goaded into it. Hunts people are sick of hunts and want to add Allied Seals as a reward to Frontlines.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

Because they're goaded into it. Hunts people are sick of hunts and want to add Allied Seals as a reward to Frontlines.

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Good. Bring on the people with shitty attitude. It will improve queue times.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Good. Bring on the people with shitty attitude. It will improve queue times.

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It'll make for a shitty experience. It may not be so noticeable in Slaughter, but in 24 player only Secure and 4x4 Wolves' Den, it'll be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

It'll make for a shitty experience. It may not be so noticeable in Slaughter, but in 24 player only Secure and 4x4 Wolves' Den, it'll be a problem.

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It can't be worse than other games like WoW, CoD, or BF4. If they think of going too far with their language they risk getting their accounts penalized.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

It can't be worse than other games like WoW, CoD, or BF4. If they think of going too far with their language they risk getting their accounts penalized.

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It's not so much language as it is behavior. They'll do their own thing, either going AFK or not doing their job. It'll ruin the experience of the people that are there for fun.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

It's not so much language as it is behavior. They'll do their own thing, either going AFK or not doing their job. It'll ruin the experience of the people that are there for fun.

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An honest question. Is FFXIV the first game you've played online? Player noncompliance is so common in multiplayer online games and is even much worse in games other than FFXIV. To expect not to see something like this would be considered an unrealistic expectation.

Brian is actually pretty correct lol.
Ppl just want shiny things and don't really care for the ppl next to them.
Hunts = allied seals
Hunts =\= for the thrill of hunting
Pvp = to glamour the "vanity" animal gear and weapons
Pvp =\= for simple pvp fun
For a lot of ppl pvp was fun the first few levels and weeks. But now the pvp community is soooooooooo small due the repeated disappointments ppl r geting in pvp now a days.
Whm nerfs, blm nerfs, slaughter being a hot ( bad ) aoe lag delay fest, turtle power secure mode.
Ppl just forgot about the simplistic fun of pvp that WD provided imo.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Brian is actually pretty correct lol.
Ppl just want shiny things and don't really care for the ppl next to them.
Hunts = allied seals
Hunts =\= for the thrill of hunting
Pvp = to glamour the "vanity" animal gear and weapons
Pvp =\= for simple pvp fun
For a lot of ppl pvp was fun the first few levels and weeks. But now the pvp community is soooooooooo small due the repeated disappointments ppl r geting in pvp now a days.
Whm nerfs, blm nerfs, slaughter being a hot ( bad ) aoe lag delay fest, turtle power secure mode.
Ppl just forgot about the simplistic fun of pvp that WD provided imo.

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The PvP community is shrinking you say? I'd like to see a credible source for this please.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

An honest question. Is FFXIV the first game you've played online? Player noncompliance is so common in multiplayer online games and is even much worse in games other than FFXIV. To expect not to see something like this would be considered an unrealistic expectation.

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No. I've played FF11, PSO, Counter Strike, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, and Marvel vs Capcom 3 over the years. I know noncompliance is pervasive throughout online games. It's just that incentivizing is not the solution. People should trickle into PvP at their own pace. You guys lost the Wolves' Den, I lost Secure. Square could do things to the interface - maybe let people see how many have queued while waiting instead of dropping us into the void like it currently does.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

No. I've played FF11, PSO, Counter Strike, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, and Marvel vs Capcom 3 over the years. I know noncompliance is pervasive throughout online games. It's just that incentivizing is not the solution. People should trickle into PvP at their own pace. You guys lost the Wolves' Den, I lost Secure. Square could do things to the interface - maybe let people see how many have queued while waiting instead of dropping us into the void like it currently does.

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Improving PVP interface would be an incentive in itself though. Incentives don't always have to be tangible rewards such as mounts, titles, or prize money. Simply greater visibility of who's queued and who's not through an improved PVP interface may be enough of an incentive to get people to queue to see if they have a chance of starting up a PVP match.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

It'll make for a shitty experience. It may not be so noticeable in Slaughter, but in 24 player only Secure and 4x4 Wolves' Den, it'll be a problem.

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Not if you dgaf and like killing noobs and are good at pvp. xD I'd rather ques be much much faster. I'd que with a pre-made and slaughter noobs that just want quick runs for their allied seals or wahtever. xD If they dont like it they dont have to pvp, if they complain i'll just ignore them and run with my premade.. at least ques will be fast.

The bad eggs would be weeded out pretty quickly. We have votekick for a good reason.

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Originally Posted by DividedSky

Not if you dgaf and like killing noobs and are good at pvp. xD I'd rather ques be much much faster. I'd que with a pre-made and slaughter noobs that just want quick runs for their allied seals or wahtever. xD If they dont like it they dont have to pvp, if they complain i'll just ignore them and run with my premade.. at least ques will be fast.o

The bad eggs would be weeded out pretty quickly. We have votekick for a good reason.

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Killing new players isn't that much fun. The thrill of battle gets lost in landslide victories. For some of us the challenge is what keeps us coming back.

The thrill and possibility of running into a challenging team at Markets, Manors, or Sun Temple was where it's at.

It's also pretty much lost now. Both with Secure and Wolves' Den.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

The thrill and possibility of running into a challenging team at Markets, Manors, or Sun Temple was where it's at.

It's also pretty much lost now. Both with Secure and Wolves' Den.

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There are just those rare matches where both teams are almost equally matched and rather the fight being just a landslide. Both teams would square each other down tryig to find that weak spot in the opposing team's defence by making risky moves trying to outplay the enemy. Those core moments of raw pvp is what made WD pvp fun. FL was less charming in a sense as it introduced goals rather than just killing each other to win. That though allowed ppl to start learning how to advance as an alliance by capturing locations etc. slaughter on the other hand is just a hot mess and offers no benefits in pvp progression like its predecessors. Its kinda like a really dumbed down version of WD.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

The PvP community is shrinking you say? I'd like to see a credible source for this please.

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It's technically shrinking or rather getting dilluted into a murky pool of PvE players that don't even know what their own set of pvp skills even do. Credible source? Maybe if u took time to think about it rather than just exploding and typing out a 17 word reply asking for others to do the searching for your answer.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

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Sorry, I'm not fully sure if you're disagreeing with me? I didn't say anything contrary to what you did I don't think. Yeah, Wolves' Den and Secure had more personal encounters, even among organized teams (8v8 still got pretty competitive). Slaughter is just... Slaughter.

I'm just saying I miss the first two, they don't happen the way they used to.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

It's technically shrinking or rather getting dilluted into a murky pool of PvE players that don't even know what their own set of pvp skills even do.

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Again, how do you know this! How does one even define a murky pool of PvE players?

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Credible source? Maybe if u took time to think about it rather than just exploding and typing out a 17 word reply asking for others to do the searching for your answer.

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No. Telling someone to think about it is not a credible source. Don't be angry at me because I asked you to show evidence of your claim. When you make such a statement, the burden of proof is on you. Just remember that you're trying to convince other people and not vice versa.

I think more and more people are trying PvP than ever before, but I don't know if they are sticking with it. (SO many Walk the Line Is in the last month)

The ADS mount is making a lot of people start and they're not very good... hopefully they'll learn as time goes on. (for the sake of our GCs lol)

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Sorry, I'm not fully sure if you're disagreeing with me? I didn't say anything contrary to what you did I don't think. Yeah, Wolves' Den and Secure had more personal encounters, even among organized teams (8v8 still got pretty competitive). Slaughter is just... Slaughter.

I'm just saying I miss the first two, they don't happen the way they used to.

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I too miss secure. Especially 72 man secure. I haven't gotten it once in the pvp roulette yet. But I did manage to get into several 24 man secure games and those were pretty damn fun.

I am hoping I don't get too rusty because of all the Slaughter I have to do to get marks. It's just really discouraging when queuing for Secure slows down your queue in general so you can't even get into a game if you queue for both.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Sorry, I'm not fully sure if you're disagreeing with me? I didn't say anything contrary to what you did I don't think. Yeah, Wolves' Den and Secure had more personal encounters, even among organized teams (8v8 still got pretty competitive). Slaughter is just... Slaughter.

I'm just saying I miss the first two, they don't happen the way they used to.

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Nah lol i mean i agree with ya and with gold saucer coming out it might kill off a lot of ppl's interest in pvp for a while because of it being shiny new and possibly more fun.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Again, how do you know this! How does one even define a murky pool of PvE players?



No. Telling someone to think about it is not a credible source. Don't be angry at me because I asked you to show evidence of your claim. When you make such a statement, the burden of proof is on you. Just remember that you're trying to convince other people and not vice versa.

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Perhaps i'm just seeing a lot of bad players in my team that just don't know how to use their pvp skills effectively and heavily rely on their pve skills to be their saving grace lol.
I see my fellow healers not knowing how to survive a full on assault from a tank, drgn and nin. They resort to running around like a headless chicken lol. I see this a lot ever since FL came out and idk mannnn. I guess the proof is from experience lol. Maybe it'll change when GS comes out = the idgaf pvpers who just want tomes or vanity will flock to GS. Which ofc will hurt qeue times.

If I have 2 be honest wolves den was pretty dead even year ago. It was really hard find any competitive opponents. That picture may tell you something about it. Most of loses are from solo que or rank 30 marauder one shot our healer that have ilvl70 gear. After you win few opponents, there was no opponents anymore and I do not wonder, it sucks losing against same opponents all of the time because pvp community is simply too small. That it was in 2.1. With frontlines, our pvp community have raised lot more than what it was before.

http://i.imgur.com/TH9IAmZ.jpg