Allowing Tells in Duties.

It's frustrating when I am just about to enter a dungeon and I see a question in my tell, but I can't respond to it cause I enter the dungeon at a bad time. Now that person has to wait 20+ minutes for my response.

It's the same thing with PVP, when I sued to do it. If I see my ls ask a question, I can't answer it.

While it was done for the sake of not receiving harassment tells, that is fine. But let the people have the option to allow tells/ls chat during duties. Some things are best solved internally than having the whole party see it anway, or ls chat.

Maybe I want to tell somehow how they can improve something instead of saying it in party so they don't feel embarrassed about it.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

It's frustrating when I am just about to enter a dungeon and I see a question in my tell, but I can't respond to it cause I enter the dungeon at a bad time. Now that person has to wait 20+ minutes for my response.

It's the same thing with PVP, when I sued to do it. If I see my ls ask a question, I can't answer it.

While it was done for the sake of not receiving harassment tells, that is fine. But let the people have the option to allow tells/ls chat during duties. Some things are best solved internally than having the whole party see it anway, or ls chat.

Maybe I want to tell somehow how they can improve something instead of saying it in party so they don't feel embarrassed about it.

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I'm pretty sure it has to do with the fact that you're not in your server when you're in duties/pvp.

And I thought it was so I couldn't ask people about voting someone out

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Originally Posted by The_Leon

And I thought it was so I couldn't ask people about voting someone out

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I honestly don't know, considering you can talk in FC/Linkshells, but it may have those meanings (Yours and OP's)

Yeah I was thinking too, that it might be to prevent people from ganging up on each other with vote kick, but if you think about it, if those people are in ls or FC or on ts together they're just going to do it there anyway, and if you're gonna go through the trouble of plotting with a bunch of randoms to vote kick someone then that player prob needs to be vote kicked anyway.

On the other hand, a lot of players would probably be more receptive to helpful advice if they weren't being "called out" in front of the rest of the party. That and I don't know how many times I've wanted to send a tell to someone to say "bbl dungeon popped" or something at least, so they wouldn't think I'd just randomly quit the conversation.

Think of the RMT spam man, just think about it. You're doing Final Coil (or still on T9 like me), sh*t goes down, you're scrambling to handle the mechanics, and bam, the ding ding ding ding of a flood of RMT spam not only distracts you, but fills up your chat log, pushing out the frantic cries "OMG MOVE YOU NOOB" because you're in a PUG to learn the fight and not with your raid group on Mumble, and bam, RMT wipes the raid. Not that you wouldn't have wiped a second later anyway, but still. Not the point.

No thanks.

I know it makes me s terrible person, but if I'm in coil my chat log is hidden until after a clear or wipe

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Originally Posted by The_Leon

I know it makes me s terrible person, but if I'm in coil my chat log is hidden until after a clear or wipe

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To be fair, my post doesn't even apply to me because I have a specific "raid" chat tab which only allows /a, /sh, /p, /say, /yell, and loot rolls. It keeps me from stabbing certain FC-mates through their computer screen when they post greetings to people who log on that take up my entire chat box with a single repeated letter. ("OMG, IT'S THATGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUY!")

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the fact that you're not in your server when you're in duties/pvp.

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^This

/stoopeed10characterlimittrollrule

yes tells in dungeons please

The original reason given for preventing tells within a duty was because they were concerned people would be abusive toward newer players.

Unfortunately it also prevents you from helping newer players without doing it publicly.

For instance, if I'm in a dungeon with a new tank that doesn't quite know what he's doing and I want to help him out...
- You know if you Shield Lob one of the targets, you'll have better threat than just walking up to them
- You might want to Flash a couple times to pick up everything, the healer's getting punched a little more than is necessary

That sort of thing. I have to do that in party chat, which can be embarrassing for a new tank. Embarrassment can lead to a defensive response rather than lead to him learning to do a better job. People don't like being called out in public, and people generally don't like having their lack of experience pointed out. It's MUCH better if that can be done privately, just between me and him.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Unfortunately it also prevents you from helping newer players without doing it publicly.

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Except tells are just as likely, if not more likely, to be used to insult the new tank until they leave. If you have to do it publicly, you're more likely to be kicked for being a jerk.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Except tells are just as likely, if not more likely, to be used to insult the new tank until they leave. If you have to do it publicly, you're more likely to be kicked for being a jerk.

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No way to know for certain, but I'd bet that for every person who feels the need to harass someone until they leave a duty, there are probably 2 or 3 people out there who just want to help them do better without having to do so publicly and look like a jerk for helping.

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the fact that you're not in your server when you're in duties/pvp.

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Then why can we still use FC chat?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

No way to know for certain, but I'd bet that for every person who feels the need to harass someone until they leave a duty, there are probably 2 or 3 people out there who just want to help them do better without having to do so publicly and look like a jerk for helping.

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Yeah, but you have to also factor in the people who "offer help" in a condescending and insulting manner and are no better than the people who just insult outright. There are only four people in a duty - I don't see what advantage there is in sending tells vs just using party chat unless it is to exclude someone from the conversation.

Also, I can see an issue with /tells since you aren't on your server - names are only unique on a given server. Getting/sending channel chat back to your server isn't a big deal because that can be uniquely identified, but what happens when you are in a duty with a "Naruto Uzumaki" from another server, and you try to send him a tell, but there's also a "Naruto Uzumaki" on your server (like there is on every server)? If you want tells NOT to be sendable to people in the duty with you, but instead be sendable to only people on your server, that'd be less ambiguous, though it could be weird when you want to send a tell to someone who is on your server but who is currently in a duty (possibly with you).

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Originally Posted by Callinon

No way to know for certain, but I'd bet that for every person who feels the need to harass someone until they leave a duty, there are probably 2 or 3 people out there who just want to help them do better without having to do so publicly and look like a jerk for helping.

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If saying something would make you look like a jerk, that's a pretty good indication that saying it falls into the harassing category rather than the helpful category. Saying things that are genuinely helpful will just make you (and generally the person you're helping as well) look good to everyone involved. Just make sure that your "help" doesn't insult anyone.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

If saying something would make you look like a jerk, that's a pretty good indication that saying it falls into the harassing category rather than the helpful category. Saying things that are genuinely helpful will just make you (and generally the person you're helping as well) look good to everyone involved. Just make sure that your "help" doesn't insult anyone.

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Right. And that's why so many people I try to help just drop group without responding, even when the remaining party is like "wth? Why would he drop just from that?"

Oh wait. >_>

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

If saying something would make you look like a jerk, that's a pretty good indication that saying it falls into the harassing category rather than the helpful category. Saying things that are genuinely helpful will just make you (and generally the person you're helping as well) look good to everyone involved. Just make sure that your "help" doesn't insult anyone.

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People have a tendency to react defensively if you point out that they're doing something wrong publicly. You can do it by offering genuine help and still get that reaction because it was offered publicly and is embarrassing for them.

Not being able to send tells is the least of problems I have with the whole backwards-assed negative-reinforced grouping system, which could fill an entirely new forum thread. But yes I agree, let's allow players to comm through tells. All the hypothetical bs on the why's/why not's don't hold up. Go check out other MMO's and you'll instantly realize how far behind FFXIV is in this regard.

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Originally Posted by Jas710

Go check out other MMO's and you'll instantly realize how far behind FFXIV is in this regard.

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Oop sorry was responding to a message sorry we wiped.

I mean to say not having tells in dungeons or FC/LS chat in PvP I think is a good thing. You're on other people's time, be respectful.

Maybe FFXIV is ahead. Since they view this as the mentality.

Because all players would let /tells interrupt their runs, therefore block all players and remove all choices. Right.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Oop sorry was responding to a message sorry we wiped.

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This is a lot more likely to happen with FC/LS chat (since that's where most chatting takes place) than with tells.

I think everyone is overthinking possible reasons based on what chat players would (or wouldn't) want to see, when the more obvious one is simply that dungeons are cross-server.

Names are only unique on individual servers. The "/tell" command cannot identify which player you're talking to if there are multiple players with the same character name. In order for /tell to work in duties, they'd have to change the format from "/tell <player name> <message>" to "/tell <server>:<player name> <message>", and then they'd have to also update the party/alliance windows to show which server everyone is from.

I could deal with the change in the /tell command format, but if they're going to clutter up the screen by adding more info to the party window, I'd rather it be info that's more directly useful to completing the dungeon (like a TP bar).