Materia and the Past/Future

I know a lot, and that's an understatement, of FFVII fan boys/girls are all giddy with the announcement of a Materia-like system that is due to be released in the future. And while this brings back all of your fond memories and prequels what sounds like a grand initiative of customization of gear let's remember one thing. We've already seen this before, only it wasn't called materia it was called evolith.

I'm all for customizing gear to taste, preference, etc but the first attempt that SE gave us with this in the evolith system was below sub-par at worst and situational at best. The similarities are uncanny, use furnace to etch slots into gear, put stones into gear for various stats, and have the option to have them taken out if you want.

So here's my question, are we going to see another customizing system that leave the majority of players out in the cold. Or, are we going to see something that we've never quite seen before that surprises us all? Because it doesn't take a genius to know that we don't need anything extra to use job abilities or spells that materia in VII gave. Could they give otherwise unattainable spells and/or JA? Maybe. Do I think they will? Unlikely.

let's wait and see and hope that they surprise us all with it ^^

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Originally Posted by AJ_Anyia

I know a lot, and that's an understatement, of FFVII fan boys/girls are all giddy with the announcement of a Materia-like system that is due to be released in the future. And while this brings back all of your fond memories and prequels what sounds like a grand initiative of customization of gear let's remember one thing. We've already seen this before, only it wasn't called materia it was called evolith.

I'm all for customizing gear to taste, preference, etc but the first attempt that SE gave us with this in the evolith system was below sub-par at worst and situational at best. The similarities are uncanny, use furnace to etch slots into gear, put stones into gear for various stats, and have the option to have them taken out if you want.

So here's my question, are we going to see another customizing system that leave the majority of players out in the cold. Or, are we going to see something that we've never quite seen before that surprises us all? Because it doesn't take a genius to know that we don't need anything extra to use job abilities or spells that materia in VII gave. Could they give otherwise unattainable spells and/or JA? Maybe. Do I think they will? Unlikely.

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Is all speculation for now, but I do like what you mentioned in that last part. I do think that Materia shouldn't only be limited to augmenting stats, but perhaps augmenting abilities, adding extra effects like "10% Chance of Poisoning the Enemy when using Concussive Blow" or even "+20% Damage Concussive Blow". Perhaps even adding new abilities limited to specific classes only. This way, you'd have to be smart about where to throw in the materia.

Going off this, I would definitely throw in a Pugilist Ability Materia into my favorite hand-to-hand weapon, because the weapon and that ability are both tied down to that class anyways, so i wouldn't have to worry about using that gear on another class and wasting slots.

This is the kind of system I would like to see.

Black Materia; +1000% dmg to Shadowsear

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Originally Posted by AJ_Anyia

I know a lot, and that's an understatement, of FFVII fan boys/girls are all giddy with the announcement of a Materia-like system that is due to be released in the future. And while this brings back all of your fond memories and prequels what sounds like a grand initiative of customization of gear let's remember one thing. We've already seen this before, only it wasn't called materia it was called evolith.

I'm all for customizing gear to taste, preference, etc but the first attempt that SE gave us with this in the evolith system was below sub-par at worst and situational at best. The similarities are uncanny, use furnace to etch slots into gear, put stones into gear for various stats, and have the option to have them taken out if you want.

So here's my question, are we going to see another customizing system that leave the majority of players out in the cold. Or, are we going to see something that we've never quite seen before that surprises us all? Because it doesn't take a genius to know that we don't need anything extra to use job abilities or spells that materia in VII gave. Could they give otherwise unattainable spells and/or JA? Maybe. Do I think they will? Unlikely.

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Hey now! be nice. :P I think we need to see it in practice like all things in MMO's and allow the dev team to balance as they see fit. Throw aside the name for the moment, I do not think it will ever be anything like the full extent of the final fantasy VII materia system, Otherwise why give us classes and jobs at all?

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Originally Posted by Shikaree

I'd really would like to see the materia effects be more universal to it's effects or enhancements to abilities as opposed to what evoliths were in FFXI where many of them were very limited to the situation type of buffs.

So none of this "bonus to this enemy type only" thing.

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You mean like Bug Killer and Man-Eater type of Materia Abilities?

Honestly I don't think it's going to be something we've never seen in a game before.

To me it sounds like a standard gem/slot system you see in many games these days. You put the gem in, you get a stat bonus of some sort specific to the gem.

the idea of having augment slots in equipment again is diffidently something that i would like to see again.. I loved the system in FFVII something similar to this with the current shard/crystal materia item already in place like being able to craft MATERIA from shards and crystals and so on and so on.. just an idea

In my op. i think they'll take the path that WoW did with the jewerly that you attached on gear, they'll give a set of slots in each piece to buff status only, and i dont see any trouble boosting abbilities, but they are more likely to improve only stats on the begining, and just guessing here maybe high quality gear will include an extra slot maybe.

Thats one of the few things that was positive in that game and the glyphs, you could customize your class as you wished depending on your playstyle, and i know that FFVII had it before but WoW used that in MMO, so thats why i refer to that game in materia use.

Materia will most likely only give stats and traits

It might be how we get traits in the first place. Right now there are no "Traits" that just hide out in the background of your character showing up when you need it (Like double attack, holy aura etc.)

To defuse the "OMFG NOT WoW!" bits, to be fair WoW didn't do a gem/slot system first. They may have been one of the first MMOs to do it but hardly anything about the game was created specifically for WoW.

Also just to clarify it's been stated that you will be able to slot One piece of materia into each piece of equipment with 100% success. They've also been hinting at there being a way to slot more than one but it would have some kind of failure rate/negative effect.

Also Cairdeas, I think a better term would be passive materia effects as we already use the term Traits for things like Out of Sight, Prime Conditioning, etc... Just to avoid confusion mainly.

i liked how in VII you got different stat bonuses per level depending on what materia you had on you at the time and the fact that the materia lvld as the character who was using it did.. separate xp numbers and everything.. now i can see how having the materia multiply once it reached max level can be a bit of a stretch for an mmo so i won't be disappointed if they ignore that aspect but a balanced system taking traits from all materia/gem equipment slot concepts would be a nice addition here.. i mean the examples are out there just need to get a nice database with pros and cons to each system to devise a perfect or close to perfect system.. =)

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Originally Posted by Arcell

To defuse the "OMFG NOT WoW!" bits, to be fair WoW didn't do a gem/slot system first. They may have been one of the first MMOs to do it but hardly anything about the game was created specifically for WoW.

Also just to clarify it's been stated that you will be able to slot One piece of materia into each piece of equipment with 100% success. They've also been hinting at there being a way to slot more than one but it would have some kind of failure rate/negative effect.

Also Cairdeas, I think a better term would be passive materia effects as we already use the term Traits for things like Out of Sight, Prime Conditioning, etc... Just to avoid confusion mainly.

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Yeah but those things dont really act like traits they just modify stats :/

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Yeah but those things dont really act like traits they just modify stats :/

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Well yes and no. Out of Sight reduces Enmity generated by actions, Intimidation does the opposite. Prime Conditioning increases healing effects on you by 10%. I'm not talking about the stat allocation switching traits like Mind over Matter.

The Evolith stuff sounded AWESOME on paper, and then it was released....

It was extremely restrictive, and you needed to level an entirely new craft that was very time consuming. The concept made it sound that you could put evolith into all your gear, but it was only specific items and they could only have specific things attached to them. They had the "amazing" idea of making the gear made specifically for evolith be crafted from HNM materials and the color-changing/slot-changing mechanics required tough NM kills. After all that, most stuff you could put on the gear was extremely situational, like someone had mentioned. "Magic attack bonus vs. Dragons" only helps against so many things and you would need to purge the evolith, get a new one (which probably required a NM kill), and insert it in order to change.

Materia being added this early and applicable to all gear, as well as having "always on" general bonuses will mean that it will see a lot more use.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

The Evolith stuff sounded AWESOME on paper, and then it was released....

It was extremely restrictive, and you needed to level an entirely new craft that was very time consuming. The concept made it sound that you could put evolith into all your gear, but it was only specific items and they could only have specific things attached to them. They had the "amazing" idea of making the gear made specifically for evolith be crafted from HNM materials and the color-changing/slot-changing mechanics required tough NM kills. After all that, most stuff you could put on the gear was extremely situational, like someone had mentioned. "Magic attack bonus vs. Dragons" only helps against so many things and you would need to purge the evolith, get a new one (which probably required a NM kill), and insert it in order to change.

Materia being added this early and applicable to all gear, as well as having "always on" general bonuses will mean that it will see a lot more use.

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Here's to hope that it's for all gear that's available to the world, because when evoliths were first introduced before they were released to the public a good number of people thought that they would be able to slot them to any piece of gear/weapon and compared them to materia of FF VII. Then they were released, and much QQ'ing ensued. As it is, all we have right now is speculation and my only hope is that while it shares the slotting properties and name of the FF VII items, I pray that that is where their similarities end. I really do, because the last thing I want to see is something old drudged up and reused. It was an interesting system, but I'd prefer seeing new and innovative instead of old stuff.

like others said it just sounds like a slot/gem system to me, like warhammer talismans. as to getting some really rare types in future i'd love to see this, rare stats, 1% drop rate on a completly new move ..stuff like this heck yeah, but the way this game is dumbing down for the casuals i don't see it happening.

this game is turning tree hugging hippy on us, we all gonna get everything in game we want. and we'll need to be stoned out our minds to be delusional enough to enjoy it. :)

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Originally Posted by AJ_Anyia

I know a lot, and that's an understatement, of FFVII fan boys/girls are all giddy with the announcement of a Materia-like system that is due to be released in the future. And while this brings back all of your fond memories and prequels what sounds like a grand initiative of customization of gear let's remember one thing. We've already seen this before, only it wasn't called materia it was called evolith.

I'm all for customizing gear to taste, preference, etc but the first attempt that SE gave us with this in the evolith system was below sub-par at worst and situational at best. The similarities are uncanny, use furnace to etch slots into gear, put stones into gear for various stats, and have the option to have them taken out if you want.

So here's my question, are we going to see another customizing system that leave the majority of players out in the cold. Or, are we going to see something that we've never quite seen before that surprises us all? Because it doesn't take a genius to know that we don't need anything extra to use job abilities or spells that materia in VII gave. Could they give otherwise unattainable spells and/or JA? Maybe. Do I think they will? Unlikely.

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If anything, telling them we don't want an Evolith system can't hurt. I'm down.

I'm all for stat bonus, but where I would be the most excited it would be for traits... Those passive abilities that we just don't get enough of.

+5% Critical hit chance. 8% Mp reduction when casting (x type spell) :)

Things like this, now that would be sweet. :)

The whole point of the materia system is to destroy gear. Gear is constantly recycled in this economy. You essentially pay in the price of repairs to use gear, then once you're done with it sell for nearly the same price as you paid for.

Materia system destroys gear and turns it into another commodity that is also supposed to be completely destroyed at regular intervals.

It's a rather ingenious idea, economically.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

The whole point of the materia system is to destroy gear. Gear is constantly recycled in this economy. You essentially pay in the price of repairs to use gear, then once you're done with it sell for nearly the same price as you paid for.

Materia system destroys gear and turns it into another commodity that is also supposed to be completely destroyed at regular intervals.

It's a rather ingenious idea, economically.

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Right, and it will be further developed and exploited with the toning down of the crafting system that's due to happen. His will ensure that a constant flow of gear is available for purchase when the need arises.

So let me pose a question to the community then, I want everyone to hit me with their best shot as to what they speculate the materia system is going to be like. I've already seen a few people's thoughts and want to know what more of you think. When this is released I'd rather it be with us talking about it and preparing ourselves for whatever it can be rather than, "OMGWTFBBQ is this %$#@"

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Originally Posted by Darrkness

the idea of having augment slots in equipment again is diffidently something that i would like to see again.. I loved the system in FFVII something similar to this with the current shard/crystal materia item already in place like being able to craft MATERIA from shards and crystals and so on and so on.. just an idea

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Would be pretty cool if you could turn shards/crystals/clusters into materia.
Just something like Fire Shards = slight boost to fire resistance if put on to armour, or slight elemental damage if put on a weapon, kinda like the elemental materia in FFVII which did the same thing depending on what materia was linked with it.
And crystals would add a higher amount.

So something like: (All numbers are examples, nothing more)
Fire Shards = +5% Fire Resistance/Attack
Fire Crystal = +10% Fire Resistance/Attack
Fire Cluster = +15% Fire Resistance/Attack

I think it would be pretty nice if you could add different elements to your regular attacks and defences.

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Originally Posted by AJ_Anyia

So let me pose a question to the community then, I want everyone to hit me with their best shot as to what they speculate the materia system is going to be like. I've already seen a few people's thoughts and want to know what more of you think. When this is released I'd rather it be with us talking about it and preparing ourselves for whatever it can be rather than, "OMGWTFBBQ is this %$#@"

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I think they've already explained what exactly it will be. Most pieces of equipment, as you use them, accumulate 'attachment points'; and, when this reaches a maximum level, you then have the option of converting the equipment into materia. The materia is an item that enhances equipment, presumably of the same type.

In the materia creation process, the equipment is destroyed, and materia is generated. When the materia is attached, you could consider the materia destroyed as well. Most likely that piece of equipment will converted into materia as well, thus destroying completely both pieces of equipment and the materia as well.

The only thing I am worried about is how diverse materia will be. NM and HQ versions are much much more expensive than their NQ counterparts, and the quality of materia should reflect this.

Here is an example: If a NQ Banneret Lance is worth 50,000 gil and when it is converted into materia which gives Attack +4. Now consider the a Banneret Lance+2 worth say 2 million gil. The difference in quality of materia should be reflected in this difference of price. It's hard to say just how much more Attack or whatever extra stats should be added, as it is determined more by player demand than anything else. I would say, a decent example could be: NQ Materia = Attack +4; HQ1= STR+2 Attack +4; HQ2= STR+3 Attack +6; HQ3 = STR+5 Attack +10.

Edit: Now say you have a Champion's Lance, worth 2,000,000 gil With NQ Materia = Attack +6; HQ1 = Str+3 Attack+10; HQ2 STR+5 Attack+12; HQ3 = STR+7 Attack +15

If you don't have a decent gap between the two types of materia, people will never convert the more expensive equipment when it is more cost effective to just use something cheaper. But if, the NM Gear gives significantly better Materia, then that would create a real demand for special equipment. I think this will be the hard balancing point on the whole Materia system.

This however is assuming that the materia crafting process works differently from normal crafts. In this example, the assumption is each piece of equipment is automatically converted into a certain type of materia and there is no effect on the quality of materia through the actual synthesis process. If in fact the materia synthesis are identical to other synthesis and the equipment just acts as simple ingredients, Higher quality equipment only raising durability and quality during synthesis, then I still think it would be necessary to encourage players to convert their HQ equipment into HQ materia by having higher quality materia.

That said, I think there will be a lot of materia available... the price of materia should be formed by the initial cost of the weapon itself + some gil to pay for the players time in accumulating attachment points. Unless ofcourse there is too much materia being generated, then players would end up losing by turning gear into materia, and would end up reselling the equipment. This is actually a very good mechanism that helps keep equipment in stock.

All in all, as a econ major and total econ dweeb, I can really appreciate how much potential the Materia system has.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

The whole point of the materia system is to destroy gear. Gear is constantly recycled in this economy. You essentially pay in the price of repairs to use gear, then once you're done with it sell for nearly the same price as you paid for.

Materia system destroys gear and turns it into another commodity that is also supposed to be completely destroyed at regular intervals.

It's a rather ingenious idea, economically.

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It's definitely an interesting alternative to the bind on equip style systems. Hopefully there will be more incentive to convert old gear into materia instead of repairing it and reselling it.

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Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel

It's definitely an interesting alternative to the bind on equip style systems. Hopefully there will be more incentive to convert old gear into materia instead of repairing it and reselling it.

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I kind of just touched on that point a little bit in the post I just made... but more specifically...

If it is more advantageous to convert Equipment into Materia, meaning when you're done using the equipment the materia is worth more, then obviously people will destroy the gear and sell the Materia.

Eventually if there's an over supply of the Materia, the prices will drop and likely drop below the price of the gear itself. This will encourage players to instead resell the gear.

I'd just like to add that the Materia will naturally be more expensive than the gear, as the price of the materials ( in this case the equipment ) is included in the price of the Materia, and there's an additional increase in the price of the Materia in the time it takes to accumulate attachment points. So in reality, there should always be a healthy supply of materia, and the only time it will drop below the equipment price is when people try to make more gil than possible, by oversupplying the market.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

I kind of just touched on that point a little bit in the post I just made... but more specifically...

If it is more advantageous to convert Equipment into Materia, meaning when you're done using the equipment the materia is worth more, then obviously people will destroy the gear and sell the Materia.

Eventually if there's an over supply of the Materia, the prices will drop and likely drop below the price of the gear itself. This will encourage players to instead resell the gear.

I'd just like to add that the Materia will naturally be more expensive than the gear, as the price of the materials ( in this case the equipment ) is included in the price of the Materia, and there's an additional increase in the price of the Materia in the time it takes to accumulate attachment points. So in reality, there should always be a healthy supply of materia, and the only time it will drop below the equipment price is when people try to make more gil than possible, by oversupplying the market.

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Well the ratio of equipment : materia will be reflected in a variety of things. And I, not being much in the way of econ subjects, ask a couple of things. How do you see the changes in the crafting system being reflected in the materia system for starters? lol

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Originally Posted by AJ_Anyia

Well the ratio of equipment : materia will be reflected in a variety of things. And I, not being much in the way of econ subjects, ask a couple of things. How do you see the changes in the crafting system being reflected in the materia system for starters? lol

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The Materia System will most likely be effected mainly by Crafting. Certain Materia will be created by certain equips, and with that said, there will be a demand for different types of Materia to support the different Classes. Depending on how many different types of Materia there are, it is going to take a lot of time before people figure out the best Materia-Armor/Weapon combinations. Once these combinations are found, the price in those items will probably go up, as the initial demand for them will be at an extreme once everyone catches on.

It sounds like NMs will be over-camped so people can make materia from their gear drops.

This thread is the first I've seen talk that equipment will be destroyed with the creation of materia... not that I'm doubting anything, but is there a link to a dev comment or a letter from the producer that talks more about that?

Pretty much any time they've talked about details they've mentioned that >.>

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...375#post263375

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Pretty much any time they've talked about details they've mentioned that >.>

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...375#post263375

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Thank you, I misinterpreted that aspect of the system when I've read about it in the past.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

I think they've already explained what exactly it will be. <snip>

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I only have one problem with this post. Way back when they first started developing the system, didn't they say they wanted it to balance (somewhat) demand between NQ and +3 gear? As much as I agree with your post, if this is their goal, what you suggest would only do the opposite.

That said, I do agree that better (or just rarer, for that matter) gear should have better materia. . .

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I only have one problem with this post. Way back when they first started developing the system, didn't they say they wanted it to balance (somewhat) demand between NQ and +3 gear? As much as I agree with your post, if this is their goal, what you suggest would only do the opposite.

That said, I do agree that better (or just rarer, for that matter) gear should have better materia. . .

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They have also said they would change other stats on armor for NQ and HQ, and not just Defense or Attack. I do remember them saying that HQ armors will also change the +STR and +Dex etc.