3 star222 diff/40 dura crafting rotation...

Hello

Was wondering if anybody has a good rotation for this? Its for the turn in items you need for the new Lucis main hand tools that you need to hq. Its the only rotation I don't have so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Trial and error. Nearly everyone has been doing 80 durability synths for so long, we've probably not even thought of hard 40 durability synths....

I'd imagine somewhere in there is probably a SH2 WN2 RS, CS2, HTx2 SH2 HTx3 MM1. Then maybe SH2 WN1 HTx4. GS Inn BB CS2

That's just off the top of my head, but wouldn't allow for much in the way of ToT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Trial and error. Nearly everyone has been doing 80 durability synths for so long, we've probably not even thought of hard 40 durability synths....

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About a month ago I thought "thank god they stopped doing those annoying 40 durability synths after 2 stars"

They are 3 star recipes, has anyone tried INGII on them to confirm ~80 from INGII/CSII?

When I feel like I have a decent idea on the rotation, I'll run it and probably use reclaim.

This is the best I could get so far :'(

http://i.imgur.com/kuaVAzk.jpg

In theory, this could be a good one, starting from 475 craftsmanship (full craft on body, +18craft on offhand, +10craft FC buff) and 395 CP (will need at least 1 ToT on top of that):
http://www.ffxivcrafter.com/crafting...tor&guid=cbcBY

tested it on 3* 80 dura, since calculator still missing new recipes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guevara

In theory, this could be a good one, starting from 475 craftsmanship (full craft on body, +18craft on offhand, +10craft FC buff) and 395 CP (will need at least 1 ToT on top of that):
http://www.ffxivcrafter.com/crafting...tor&guid=cbcBY

tested it on 3* 80 dura, since calculator still missing new recipes.

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End up like this :D http://www.ffxivcrafter.com/crafting...tor&guid=cbcCg

I did about a dozen of the Fluorite Lens last night on my GSM. I'm at 456 Craft, 411 Control and 395 CP with food.

I had 10 do HQ no problem (not all 100%) and 2 NQ. The great part with these turn-ins is the ability to give the NQ back to Talan for the rare mats back. As long as you finish the craft, you cannot lose anything major.

That being said, I found doing the crafts based on situation is the way to go, meaning no macros.

Based on testing, unless you can get your craftsmanship into the 470's you will need three quality touches without Ingenuity 2. I think Ingenuity 2 is too expensive to use, so I went with 1 Rapid Synthesis, and 2 Careful Synthesis 2's. The RS is done early to make sure it doesn't fail and the first CS2 is done where ever I can fit it in when I may have run out of a Steady Hand 2 buff. The final CS2 finishes the craft.

Other than that, I follow the same principals as the current 3 and 4 star crafting, stack as many SH2 buffed Hasty Touches as I can, using Tricks of the Trade when it is up, keeping Comfort Zone up, and replenishing Durability with Manipulation.

I prefer Manipulation to Masters Mend for the lower CP cost, and in most cases, when Manipulation is activated, I will either get a ToT or I will need to refresh SH2 to begin the Durability refresh process. It is important to note that you CANNOT do a progress or Quality Touch when on 10 Durability as the craft will fail before the Manipulation will replenish.

Granted, this rotation will require you get a little luck with either ToT's or HT hits to work. Luck with both gets 100% no problem, luck with neither, still gets me into the 60% HQ range, and if I NQ, no big deal because of the exchange with Talan.

A few things to keep in mind.

Wait until 10 Durability before using Manipulation unless you just used SH2. If you don't you may find that you get a ToT, then you refresh SH2, then another ToT forcing you to waste the CP gain from ToT in order to not lose the last 10 Durability from Manipulation.

There will be times that SH2 will be wasted, a lot of times in fact, but refreshing CZ or getting a ToT is always preferable to using HT just because SH2 is up, especially on 40 Durability crafts.

I think there is some room for improvement with this method. Some higher craft numbers with more aggressive melding, FC buffs, or food could reduce the number of Progress touches you need to 2, but I'm not sure if that the benefit justifies the cost (loss of control on gear, FC actions not everyone may have access to, expensive food).

I think we can all agree that RNG is still the law of the land here, but with the trade in mechanic with Talan, SE has made the risk nil, for better or for worse.

Arisu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DivineAyumi

This is the best I could get so far :'(

http://i.imgur.com/kuaVAzk.jpg

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/hijack
I love that sig.

"Already" at 5 HQ out of 7 after 20 mins of tries, i failed 2 times due to derping with dura. Rotation is kinda easy and also if you're about 9-10 stacks you can even hit byregot w/o any good/excellent condition and i still reached 85-90% HQ

http://i61.tinypic.com/2d8hul2.png

Well after 45mins i got my first Lucis :D

http://i61.tinypic.com/2ik7ho0.png

Here's my rotation that worked pretty good for me with maxed out gear.

Supra for main tool
iLv70 for offhand

Stats:
Craftsmanship: 356 - FC action Craftsmanship +10
Control: 404
CP: 352 - HQ Fish soup +33
466/404/385

I used 4 buttons for this setup.

Code:

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Step 1
Title: 40D ***S1(382)
/ac "Comfort Zone" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Inner Quiet" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Rapid Synthesis" <me><wait.3>
/echo >> Step 1 Finished <se.2>

Note: If Rapid Synthesis fails go straight to NQ

Step 2
Title: 40D ***S2(382)
/ac "Waste Not" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Waste Not" <me><wait.2>
/echo >> Step 2 Finished <se.2>

---

Code:

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Step 3
Title: 40D ***S3(382)
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Great Strides" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity II" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me><wait.3>
/echo >> @ Synth Complete <se.6>

NQ
Title: 3*Token Waste
/ac "Ingenuity II" <me><wait.2>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me><wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me><wait.3>

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Now if you need more Synthesis you could take out a Hasty Touch for a Careful Synthesis
This rotation isn't the best but suited me ok. I did fail alot. Considering the mats were replaced upon NQ turn in, it didn't bother me much.

Good Luck!

Personally I discourage the use of Waste Not. It prevents you from using your ToT procs and if you use your ToT proc with WN up, your dura calculations get screwed.

My first Lucis tool run I got 20HQ with 6NQ (traded it back for the mats). The % is actually quite forgiving compared to the 4* turn ins. Crappy % like 50-60% still yields you a HQ turn in frequently. Took me like a hour total, in between waiting for queue for WoD to make one Lucis.

ToT procs and Manipulation is your friend here.

http://link.ffxivcrafter.com/?id=cbcF4

Im thinking something like this. 1 tot required.

Craft 451
Cont 407
Cp 395 with food.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Personally I discourage the use of Waste Not. It prevents you from using your ToT procs and if you use your ToT proc with WN up, your dura calculations get screwed.

ToT procs and Manipulation is your friend here.

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Hi Rui,

Can you share your rotation? Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Empty-handed

http://link.ffxivcrafter.com/?id=cbcF4

Im thinking something like this. 1 tot required.

Craft 451
Cont 407
Cp 395 with food.

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This doesn't work. Your craft breaks right after your first Manipulation. The simulator doesn't seem to take that into account.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Rui,

Can you share your rotation? Thanks!

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It's pretty standard stuff

CZ
IQ
IG2
CS2
CS2
HT

The rest is just HT until 10 dura, Manip => SH2 => HT again (remember if you are going to Manip at 10 dura you must follow it up with something else like CZ/SH2/ToT before using a touch, or it WILL break. Usually your SH2 burns in a way where it is just nice to refresh SH2 right after Manip).

CZ will be refreshed at least once, if good ToT proc chances you could probably have enough CP and steps to CZ a third time.

Continue the process until the end when your CP are about to burn out where you should finish it off.

Your ending starts at 20 dura left with enough SH/SH2 stacks (at least 3) for: GS=>Byregot on good/excellent or GS=>Innovation=>Byregot and finish it off with CS2.

The reason why I don't post "standard rotations" stuff for crafting is because players need to know the logic behind taking each step, so that you have the foresight to plan ahead how to manip (at 10 or 20 dura) without wasting SH2 stacks/resources or minimize any waste, and how to deal with bad hands. Knowing this is very important to be a successful crafter - too many people blindly follow a rotation without knowing the logic behind it, such as the difference between openers that uses SH2=>PbP=>PbP and PbP=PbP=SH2 etc. These all leads of failures when they are faced with bad RNG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guevara

In theory, this could be a good one, starting from 475 craftsmanship (full craft on body, +18craft on offhand, +10craft FC buff) and 395 CP (will need at least 1 ToT on top of that):
http://www.ffxivcrafter.com/crafting...tor&guid=cbcBY

tested it on 3* 80 dura, since calculator still missing new recipes.

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This worked quite well for me, I replaced the Standard Synthesis with 2x Careful Synthesis II however since my craftmanship was only at 464.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luminius

Well after 45mins i got my first Lucis :D

http://i61.tinypic.com/2ik7ho0.png

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That's one huge pinga! xD

How do you guys farm the moonstone... My first lucis totally burned me out.... 80k. Gg.

Just finished my last lucis for craft jobs these synths are not that bad i found it easier to just go with the flow on these and react as the synth needed.
Also i never used waste not i just kept using masters mend as i found it easier for some reason waste not and waste not 2 confuse me as i tend to waste some of the waste not stacks lol

8/8 for my crafting jobs now though just need to work on the gathering classes

Craftsmanship 465 control 408 cp 398 those were my stats when i did them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

It's pretty standard stuff...

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Thanks Rui. Very helpful! :)

I agree that it's important to understand the intricacies of the craft itself.

BTW, since you go with a 90% PbP chance, if it fails that early in your rotation, do you just immediately finish off the synth NQ? (Since you can turn it in.) Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Thanks Rui. Very helpful! :)

I agree that it's important to understand the intricacies of the craft itself.

BTW, since you go with a 90% PbP chance, if it fails that early in your rotation, do you just immediately finish off the synth NQ? (Since you can turn it in.) Thanks.

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Refer back to the post, I edited lol. I realized I posted the wrong steps lmao :X

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bubblegum01

How do you guys farm the moonstone... My first lucis totally burned me out.... 80k. Gg.

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I'm going to guess .. a lot of crafted GC deliveries, followed by a lot more.

North Thanalan FATEs. They give the most Seal reward. Doing FATEs in NT you can do multiple things at the same time. Spiritbond, Light, Alexandrites, Chocobo raising all at the same time you're going for GC seals. Concidering you can get the other MATEs from other means(Hunting Seals, Leves in Mor Dhona) leaving you with GC seals all for Moonstones.

Mor Dhona leves are really great. im starting with my LTW.

and you hand it in to the next standing by NPC lol.

some leves give 3x some give 1x.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Empty-handed

Mor Dhona leves are really great. im starting with my LTW.

and you hand it in to the next standing by NPC lol.

some leves give 3x some give 1x.

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lol, just started doing that one too. Got my WVR, on to the next.

For that one turn. It's really 3 if you continue. Raptor Leather 5 turn in 3x = 15 Leather = 3x Token item.

these really aren't to bad at all,

used pretty much the same as mentioned here.

cz iq sh2 when needed manip on 20 dur repeat as many times as possible then at 40 dur remaining ingen 2 standard finish cs2 x3.

used tot on every good. could use cz twice everytime and usually got 3-4 manip per synth

if you get an nq trade for most the mats back, you lose your clusters every time though.

will say to get 100% on mormal quality youll need 10-11 iq stacks.

The RNG is so bad for me...either hasty touch is not giving me enough IQ stack, little to none ToT proc, NQ at 70-80%...3hours and still at 12HQ only...

Okay I'm seeing all kinds of different rotations here, some saying it works others not...any one that can say for sure that theirs works decent enough could you post that one.

Thanks

I just used Mithrie's rotation that is posted on another thread in this section, and that worked well for me. Just waiting on Moonstones, but I made my ltw lucis and have the hq token items for gsm and alc already premade (and enough mats to start making the bsm token items). I tried his rotation using Manipulation instead on MMI and found that I preferred MMI. Also my FC had the +10 minute to food buff up and I found that infinitely helpful while crafting these :)

Mithries rotation is flexible in taking advantage of ToT procs. however, it does not optimize CP in case RNG does not give you any Tots :(

what i did for my Lucis is:

CZ, IQ, (TOT when possible)
ST2, WN (Tot Once while WN is up)
RS, 3 or 2 HT
CS2 (tot before/after), refresh CZ
if durability is 10 MM1
if durability is 15 HT (risky haha since there is no ST2. if you are lucky with Tots use BT) then MM1
SH2, WN, (tot once), 3 or 4 HT

if you have enough CP.. Manipulation then SH2, then HS spam (can take Tots) till durability with 2 steps left.

if not enough CP is left for manipulation finish the synth. again depends on how much CP is left

SH GS Byregot

end with CS2.

:mad:

My rotation that has worked very well for my first 2 Lucis:

(ToT whenever possible)
CZ, IQ, SH2, Hasty Touches until @ 10 durability.

If SH2 still has 2 stacks (meaning you didnt get any ToT proc), Master Mend 1 + Hasty, then refresh SH2. (ToT whenever possible)
Otherwise if SH2 has only 1 stack (meaning you got one ToT proc during SH2), Manipulation then refresh SH2. (ToT whenever possible)
Refresh CZ as needed.
Hasty Touches until @ 10 durability.

Repeat the above "if" and do hasty till 10 dura. Repeat it again. And yet another time if possible (watch your CP)

You should be at 8-11 stacks of IQ now.

Do one last manipulation, SH1 + GS + Ing2 + (Inno if you have enough CP) + Byregot.
Careful Synth x3 to finish the synth at around 90% HQ chance (around 100% if you had CP for innovation at 10+ stacks of IQ) if you started with a few HQ mats. 80% HQ chance if you only used NQ mats and didnt have CP for Innovation.

In another thread, not sure if it was this one or another one, I made my points about what I don't like about the "take every ToT and use MM1" method mentioned above.

I gave it another try last night. I finished up 3 more lucis tools. I've done my first 3 with "my method" which involves 2 WN2 and "needs" only 1 ToT anywhere in the first 10 steps. The other 3 lucis tools, I've tried this other method. The HQ rate that I've seen favors the 2 WN2 method a little bit, but that is small sample space.

My main issue with the MM1/ToT method is that when it fails, it fails hard. Very hard. And those are just throwaway synths at that point. Thankfully we get back some of the ingredients. When the WN2 method "fails hard" - I still wind up with a better chance of that HQ than with the MM1/ToT method. But with that said, the only losses for both methods are clusters and easily replaceable items. It doesn't really matter which way you do it.

However, during one of my synths using the MM1/ToT method, I managed a 64 step synth. So it may fail hard, but when goods are in your favor, they are really in your favor.
http://tinypic.com/r/dcacxx/8

In a world without ToT, WN2 would be the best skill to use on these. Out of your 8 steps, you can not use a touch on one of them and still get your full 4 steps. Unfortunately, that is already used up by refreshing SH2. If just one good condition pops up in those 8 steps, you are faced with two options:
1. Take ToT and now you have paid 98cp for 3 steps. (32.7cp per step)
2. Ignore ToT at an opportunity cost of 20cp, effectively bringing the cost up to 118cp. (29.5cp per step)

MM1 is 30.7 per step. Manip is 29.3 per step. Discounting opportunity costs of ToT, WN2 is 24.5.

Mathematically speaking WN2 is the best of no good conditions proc. If you take a ToT proc, it falls behind MM1. If you ignore 1 ToT, then you break even with Manipulation. If a second or third good proc enters the picture, things look worse for WN2. Also, because hitting 7 will leave you at 5 durability, a second use of WN2 will get you one less step and is not worth using compared to other skills.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

Mathematically speaking WN2 is the best of no good conditions proc. If you take a ToT proc, it falls behind MM1. ... WN2 is 29.5cp per step

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No. WN2 is 14 per step. You get 7 effectual steps with SH2, WN2, SH2. 98CP/7 = 14CP per step.

And your "opportunity cost" is what you think it is worth. You need to use ToT to keep your synth alive. Like I said in my post, I only need 1 ToT for the whole synth. If I get a good during a non-critical part of the synth, of course ToT it. But during the WN2 sequence, those other "goods" that you see as 20CP thrown away, I see it as a bonus if HT lands.

I get the power of the MM1/Manipulation/ToT method vs the WN2 method. Speaking as someone that has done 160 HQ worth of lucis token items (80 with each method), I'm not overly impressed. I need the RNG to land my HT and give me lots of goods. And when you don't get more than a few goods, you wind up with not enough IQ stacks to have a fighting chance on the HQ. WN2 method, I know how many touches I'm going to get. If I manage to get lucky with ToT during non-critical phases, I can convert those into BT for a guaranteed IQ stack.

Besides, the synths take less time with WN2. Less steps, less time. Different strokes for different folks.

I don't understand how you could make use of 2x WNII in a 40 durability synth. If you keep SHII up for all the touches, you can only gain 35 durability (4 steps) the first use. This leaves you at 5 durability.

You need to use something (let's say MMI) to get you back up to 35 durability, at which point the 2nd WNII will at best gain you 30 durability, for a higher cost than another MMI.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If you keep SHII up for all the touches, you can only gain 35 durability (4 steps) the first use. This leaves you at 5 durability. Is there something I'm missing here?

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SH2 WN2 SH2, leaves at 5 durability. 7 steps. 7 actions. Not 4.

2nd WN2 has 7 actions: 4 touches, 1 BB, 2 progress actions (to bait good/excellent).

2 WN2, 14 actions.

And obviously there is a Manipulation or something in between.

7 actions, but use of 35 durability for those 7 actions, gain of 35 durability, gain of 4 actions.

Then you use mani or MMI, and you're at 35 durability, which is 4 possible actions. You use another WNII, to make that 7 actions, gain of 3.

You could have used a 2nd MMI instead for the same gain and less CP cost, plus been able to buff your BB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

7 actions, but use of 35 durability for those 7 actions, gain of 35 durability, gain of 4 actions.

Then you use mani or MMI, and you're at 35 durability, which is 4 possible actions. You use another WNII, to make that 7 actions, gain of 3.

You could have used a 2nd MMI instead for the same gain and less CP cost, plus been able to buff your BB.

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It's like we are speaking different languages. I talk about spending durability, you talk about gaining it.

And BB is buffed with GS. You wind up with 5 durability on the last step, just as good. I figured that was a given.


All I'm trying to say is... there is more than one way to do these synths. The MM1/ToT way fails hard when it does fail to yield procs for ToT and you wind up with very low HQ chance. If you get lots and lots of goods and your HT land, of course it will HQ. I like the 2 WN2 method since I don't need RNG to land on "Good" to succeed. I take one if I need it. If I get enough during non-critical parts, I can covert them into 100% touches. And if RNG does land on Good and I use a touch on it, I get the 50% bonus on that step. And as everyone knows, HQ chance is exponential as your reach 4980. Those goods that I'm "passing up" get converted into a quality bonus. That quality bonus is not minor. Not every GS/BB = 100%. And when it doesn't, that quality bonus becomes key.