Rolling Need For Gear You Have No Use For

So maybe I'm just missing something, but I've seen an increase in dungeons and especially ST of people rolling Need on gear they have absolutely no use for. When you have a piece of i120 gear in the slot why are you rolling need for that piece of i100 gear? Sure, you can turn them in for GC seals, but that's a pretty weak reason. Glamour maybe, but I've seen it on belts as well, so that doesn't completely explain it.

I know the entire incentive for me to run ST at this point is to get gear for secondary classes (WHM is my main and I'm well past the gear that drops), but that's becoming harder to do when people just roll need on everything that drops now. Now sure, I could take those jobs in there and roll need as well, but I'd rather have better gear for them first.

So is this just bad etiquette and people are being selfish or is there some legitimate reason for lotting Need on this stuff?

People have their relic and we need it to turn in for company seal so you can need them for that very reason.

This is an old debate, but it's usually just poor etiquette.

If people in the party are obviously in need of the equipment, especially if they politely request it, I won't contest or override the roll.

On the other hand, gear from ST is so far behind the curve now that no one actually "needs" it at all except for vanity or extra seals .

Yeah. 80,000 seals needs to come from somewhere. Since people are grinding dungeons, turning this gear in is the most logical.

If you want a specific set, go in as that class. Or ask nicely and maybe they will pass.

The game is designed so players can NEED roll on loot for the class they are playing. Like you said, there are many reasons for a player rolling NEED, such as GC seal turn ins (zodiac relic players need those), and glamour. There is no looting etiquette, especially in end game dungeons like ST. Do the content on the class you want to gear if you want the loot so bad.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Glamour, desynthesis, turn in for GC seals, level capped areas, everyone else rolling need on everything means I have to roll need to get anything

So just for seals? The things you get from just about every single thing you do in the game pretty much? It's a reason I guess.

EDIT: OK, I guess there are a few other reasons, I'd still put them below taking gear that others could use. And really, who would want to glamour ST gear? The game is designed to roll need for items you actually need, so players running content can get the gear they need to progress. This falls apart a bit when you're doing content past what your current class actually does need.

As for there being no etiquette, that's no way for a community to treat one another.

Gorvi, I don't want to defend this, but the ones with the GC seal reason are most likely the ones that did their relic harassment quest, they had to farm fates over, and over, and over...


.... and over.... and over... and over... and... you get it :P

I NEED on everything now, having to come up with more then 240k in GC seals (thats 3 Zodiac weapons). I need all the loot drops from Dfs/CT. Sorry to leveling players but hey gotta feed the need for shiny new weapons! Say, can ST gear be turned in for Seals?

Complete two Zodiac weapons requiring a total of 160,000 GC seals, and then come talk to me.

If you want or need a particular piece so bad from a dungeon, speak up. I'm sure most people would pass if they knew you specifically needed it. If you're completely silent and say nothing, then don't get mad when people need on items for the job they're playing.

I too have to need/greed on everything now, mostly for GC turn in, but sometime for desynthesis. Need 80,000 seals per zodiac i125 weapon, and more seals to buy venture tokens for my retainers. I would pass if somebody asked in advance, but otherwise I have need for everything I can get.

Man, I barely have the patience to do the one Zodiac weapon I'm trying to work up now, you people have far more tolerance for grind and free time than I do. Damn.

I'll just take my jobs in there then if I want gear for them, it's not that hard.

I will say, though, that as far as Syrcus Tower goes I have no idea why you would need that gear, unless it's for glamour. Currently, you cannot turn in ST for GC seals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I will say, though, that as far as Syrcus Tower goes I have no idea why you would need that gear, unless it's for glamour. Currently, you cannot turn in ST for GC seals.

---

Really? Then my question remains then, since that's what I'm talking about. Dungeon drops aren't worth it to actually use at this point, so I really couldn't care less about that. Glamour I guess still, but man, that gear is ugly, at least the mage gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I will say, though, that as far as Syrcus Tower goes I have no idea why you would need that gear, unless it's for glamour. Currently, you cannot turn in ST for GC seals.

---

i80 gear can be desynthed into some pretty good materials.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

i80 gear can be desynthed into some pretty good materials.

---

Syrcus Tower doesn't drop the i80 gear, Labyrinth of the Ancients does. I don't desynth, but can you desynth i100 gear?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I will say, though, that as far as Syrcus Tower goes I have no idea why you would need that gear, unless it's for glamour. Currently, you cannot turn in ST for GC seals.

---

Currently is the operative word there. It will be, and you can keep 1 of each item on retainer, plus 1 on yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Currently is the operative word there. It will be, and you can keep 1 of each item on retainer, plus 1 on yourself.

---

Very true. I cannot remember, is the old i80 CT gear able to be turned in for seals?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Syrcus Tower doesn't drop the i80 gear, Labyrinth of the Ancients does. I don't desynth, but can you desynth i100 gear?

---

whoops, my bad. still, they could be banking on i100 gear being desynthesizable in 2.5, and stocking up for easy xp/expensive mats. Either way, going as the class or asking for a drop are your best options if you want a drop.

Someone in linkshell just the other day was raging because she's been farming Shiva Ex for about 2 weeks now for the warrior axe, it finally dropped yesterday, and she lost the roll to another warrior... who already had the upgraded shiva axe. When she asked him why, all he said was, "for glamour"

There are uses for certain gear beyond just equipping it. Whether or not that entitles you to roll Need will always be a debate. Personally regarding gear, I don't roll Need if I don't plan to equip the item, but I also don't expect others to play by that standard. In most cases I expect other people to push the Need button if it's available, regardless of any other factors.

Other than needing them for GC seals, I do need them for desynthing. This is very important especially when doing 1st coil since rare mat does come from it.

As for GC seals itself, I still have great demand from it. Aside from the current zodiac-sink, I always have great need for 1* mats crafting (coke, peacock ore, etc).

I roll need on items I don't need for GC Seals most of the time. I'm a spiritbonder so I like to get the GC potions to make it go faster and, because I take 5 sets of gear at once it takes about and hour to fully bound all of them.

If you go by the idea "equal reward for equal effort", then "need" doesn't come into it. Why should one person pull in a greater portion of the item rewards than another person when both contributed equally to the encounter?

I think I'd be totally cool if someone who wasn't going to actually equip the item just rolled greed with everyone else. The whole point of the Need option is for people intending to actually use the item. If you're not using it then you don't "need" it any more than anyone else in the group.

Honestly, it's just up to each person. When I do low level roulettes, I never need on anything that someone else may need. However, if I'm doing upper tier level 50 dungeons and healing random people, derps, tanks who pull 20+ enemies and don't use defensive skills, etc. I'm certainly going to need on the higher level healer gear to turn in for seals. After all, without seals, I couldn't pay my retainer to bring me back useless fish all the time. ;)

Even if he doesn't need to wear it for an upgrade, he took the time to queue and play the class. He is entitled to "need" as much as any other player in that duty using the same class. The system is fairly straightforward and one of the more fair methods that could have been used by the dev team. I always see it as this:

"May the best roll win"

On the other side, we have the kind of player who would ninja loot on even the item that people specifically requested. Seeing as this happened to me many many times in the past, I now am living a thug life. "Being a nice guy,often than most, will put you on the losing side!!"

2 words: seals & desynth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m3eansean

Even if he doesn't need to wear it for an upgrade, he took the time to queue and play the class. He is entitled to "need" as much as any other player in that duty using the same class. The system is fairly straightforward and one of the more fair methods that could have been used by the dev team. I always see it as this:

"May the best roll win"

---

So true. :D

Although, I do tries to hold on from needing any drops from lower level dungeons since I can just desynth from normal crafts. But that's only if I do see any under-leveled players in party. I will click "need" if all party members are all level 50 though. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Glamour, desynthesis, turn in for GC seals

---

forgot retainers, but this

The ST gear as actual gear is kind of redundant now anyway you'd be better off farming soldiery and getting that gear then doing ST for mats to upgrade them and go for poetics. People roll for a variety of reasons as people have said. The roll system in this game is very much fair if you specifically need gear for the class you are playing you can override all rolls unless somebody else on the same class also needs. It's still a random roll of the dice the system is fair. Everyone has an equal chance to win the loot if they want it. If it goes down to a greed roll again everyone has an equal chance to roll a dice. Complaining when you lose a roll on loot is kind of childish like when you do a raffle and some other kid wins the big prize you wanted. He didn't have more of a chance to win than you he's just lucky so throwing a tantrum is just dumb.

If you really want people to pass things and give it to you then you can queue with friends or FC and ask them to pass for you. A random stranger has zero obligations to you in DF everyone is in that queue because they need something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

Someone in linkshell just the other day was raging because she's been farming Shiva Ex for about 2 weeks now for the warrior axe, it finally dropped yesterday, and she lost the roll to another warrior... who already had the upgraded shiva axe. When she asked him why, all he said was, "for glamour"

---

That really sucks. Lately I do see people begging others to pass on certain weapons there after the clear. I had already rolled greed in this one instance before they asked, and quite honestly people should make these "pass" requests before the coffer ever gets opened as a courtesy to those who are helping you in the first place. But the roll was low at 33 so I left, even though I could use it immediately on my sub.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

The ST gear as actual gear is kind of redundant now anyway you'd be better off farming soldiery and getting that gear then doing ST for mats to upgrade them and go for poetics. People roll for a variety of reasons as people have said. The roll system in this game is very much fair if you specifically need gear for the class you are playing you can override all rolls unless somebody else on the same class also needs. It's still a random roll of the dice the system is fair. Everyone has an equal chance to win the loot if they want it. If it goes down to a greed roll again everyone has an equal chance to roll a dice. Complaining when you lose a roll on loot is kind of childish like when you do a raffle and some other kid wins the big prize you wanted. He didn't have more of a chance to win than you he's just lucky so throwing a tantrum is just dumb.

If you really want people to pass things and give it to you then you can queue with friends or FC and ask them to pass for you. A random stranger has zero obligations to you in DF everyone is in that queue because they need something.

---

Nobody's throwing a tantrum, so you can drop the condescending tone. ST is a nice way to get some decent gear for secondary or even tertiary classes. Like many I have multiple classes at 50 and I'd like to run those some content to see if I'd want to gear them up further, but don't really want to until I have at least competent gear. I'm cool with a greed roll, but need on gear you don't actually need is silly. The post was 99% geared (no pun intended) towards ST gear.

It can't be turned in for seals, it can't be desynthed, and I doubt anyone's going to use it for glamour, there's not much reason to "need" it other than just to have it. Sure, maybe you can turn it in or desynth it in the future, but that's just speculation at this point.

I don't have any doubt that we will be able to turn in or desynth the gear by 3.0 at the latest, more likely in a couple weeks with 2.5. Each piece will give 1k+ seals, or desynth into battlecraft III or 2/3/4 star recipe materials.

The system sucks for gearing up other jobs, you're best bet to do that is to set up a premade party.

Not sure why this is an issue. Yes, it'd be nice if people passed on stuff for others, but they spent just as much of their time and effort to do the instance as you. If they're the appropriate class, they have every right to need. That's how it works. If you're trying to gear an offspec, go into the instance as that offspec.

I participated on the dungeon just as you did, and nobody has a right to judge whether or not you need something more than I do or not. It's a matter of perspective. You might need this piece for a secondary job, I might need it for desynthesis, who knows? Maybe you see my whm in the dungeon with superior gear and I need on a healer piece you want me to greed on. But what if I need this gear for my sch because I use that job for lower ilevel caps?
Need/greed was only designed for matching job over a drop, it does not go into detail of who "needs" it more than others. As said before, we all participated in the same dungeon/boss/instance, therefore we have the same right to lot. Wether it's for updating armor or seals or desynth or glamor, nobody should judge the needs of anyone.
On a side note, if I need something specific, I will go on a job that can need on it. I don't expect others to pass for me, I like to work for what I get. My tank is not my main at all, but when I wanted to upgrade, I made sure to be tanking in ST, and same goes for all my jobs.