Need some advice on bard dps in final coil.

I run into some issue in Final coil as a bard in term of dps in the final coil. In turn 11, I got some report that my dps is low at around 300, which is pretty bad. My gear set is ok at around 113. I usually start the fight with Straight shot, bloodletter, blood4blood, internal release, venom, hawk eye, windbite, raging strike, barrage, blunt, and finallly flaming arrow.

My dps usually remain high in the first 2-3 minute inot the fight and then I will suddenly drop down to 6th place on the hate list and will remain at 6th place. I remember to reapply dot as much as possible and reapply buff. What am i doing wrong? There is surely something wrong when I keep hearing other bard can pull 400 dps while i am stuck at around 300.

Hi. Which weapon are you using? 300 for T11 is low, yes. Without a Dragoon, with this ilvl, you should be at least at 350.

edit:
found back dps log from my first T11 down 7 weeks ago.
"We did our first T11 down with my full static recently, the four dps (2 Nin, 1 Blm, me as a Brd) were all ~i112-113 with i115 weapon.
Here are our dps:
Brd: 370
Blm: 390
Nin 1: 410
Nin 2: 430

Tanks were around 200 as far as I remember.
SCH did also a bit of dps with DoTs."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellos2099

I run into some issue in Final coil as a bard in term of dps in the final coil. In turn 11, I got some report that my dps is low at around 300, which is pretty bad. My gear set is ok at around 113. I usually start the fight with Straight shot, bloodletter, blood4blood, internal release, venom, hawk eye, windbite, raging strike, barrage, blunt, and finallly flaming arrow.

My dps usually remain high in the first 2-3 minute inot the fight and then I will suddenly drop down to 6th place on the hate list and will remain at 6th place. I remember to reapply dot as much as possible and reapply buff. What am i doing wrong? There is surely something wrong when I keep hearing other bard can pull 400 dps while i am stuck at around 300.

---

400DPS bards on T11 are typically slightly more geared or the team pushes things fast enough to require lesser use of songs.

Your DPS will suffer if your team requires you to help out at the Gravity Node, which has physical attack resistance.

After adds phase, make sure you are attacking from the melee range. It absorbs the egg which means the boss will have the same buff as the egg which makes it invulnerable from range.

I know about melee thing, this is not my first time in t11. Adn yes i need to do some paeon help with gravity node since it is usually 15% away. it is a negative cycle too, when i got call out as lowest dps i try to focus more on dps and less on status effect. Thunderstuck, wipe, got blame even more

Sing louder

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellos2099

I know about melee thing, this is not my first time in t11. Adn yes i need to do some paeon help with gravity node since it is usually 15% away. it is a negative cycle too, when i got call out as lowest dps i try to focus more on dps and less on status effect. Thunderstuck, wipe, got blame even more

---

Just remember to watch out for the thunder after repelling cannons.
It will become second nature eventually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellos2099

I know about melee thing, this is not my first time in t11. Adn yes i need to do some paeon help with gravity node since it is usually 15% away. it is a negative cycle too, when i got call out as lowest dps i try to focus more on dps and less on status effect. Thunderstuck, wipe, got blame even more

---

15% difference? What's your mage doing? Maybe your mage needs to git gud also?

You should never need to sing any songs during adds phase. If you have it means someone died or whatever crap happened which shouldn't happen. Not your fault for that, your teammates need to git gud on it.

For Paeons, at around 64% before the boss does his last move before transition (either bombs or nerve gas), play paeon until the adds appear and stop. This should last you until adds phase over, then play Paeon/Ballad/Foe depending on what's needed.

First, I'd change a little bit your opening :

(Requiem+ Battle Voice, hawk eye, raging strike) bloodletter, Straight shot, blood4blood, internal release, venom, barrage, blunt, windbite, flaming arrow, potent poison potion, Heavy Shot, Dexterity Potion.
Reapply Bites when they reach 6 (your buffs, or most of them, should still be up), then classic rotation.

In the parenthesis, you have what you should cast pre-pull. Start with requiem and when your tank start running, the two buffs, then when his axe or shield hits the boss (: name become read), bloodletter followed by straight shot.
Don't hesitate to use potion, they really help on dps. They might not be needed depending on team/stuff, but you will like to see a significant upgrade I guess.

And remebmer, after add phase, you can dps the boss if you are standing close to it while its casting his big AoE attack. Every dps point count ;)

As for the singing duties on T11, I usually do : Requiem/battleVoice on pull. Paeon on the secondary head @ 73%, leaving it ticking from 5 to 6 times, then switching back to requiem. Battle voice Ballad on Egg adds if needed, Paeon if no ballad needed, requiem if no paeon required. Usually, my drg & mnk don't need paen at this point. If everybody needs something, ballad first (with battle voice) and @ 15s left on battle voice, switch to paeon.
On last phase, whenever i get about half mp left (and everyhting is on CD), one last requiem to seal the deal.

Never had complains from my fellow member about the singing with this (but they just might be too kind to start complaing...?)

Hope this can help a bit ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

15% difference? What's your mage doing? Maybe your mage needs to git gud also?

---

Hehe I lol'ed at this one because last night our BLM was missing from our party. We did not have another caster except for my SMN, so I took the caster role for the party. I was able to dps down the cube at the same speed as our other dps finished the sphere (all averaging 380-400 dps) without issue. That BLM who was only at 15% must've been struggling if i could keep up with SMN ;)

Though to be fair, BLM don't do all that well with movement, and you have to move a lot during that phase.

About to start t11 myself soon, and it screams strafe at me looking at videos. Do you strafe to ensure you always auto attack? maybe it's obvious to every bard ( except me at one time zz ) but after changing to standard camera my dps has risen on movement heavy fights. You seem to be confused about your dps (?) so something like this might demystify it for you.

People talk all day about bards losing no dps when they move, but this requires them to always be facing their target when moving/dodging etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

People talk all day about bards losing no dps when they move, but this requires them to always be facing their target when moving/dodging etc.

---

This. Check your camera setting (and auto-face).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

People talk all day about bards losing no dps when they move, but this requires them to always be facing their target when moving/dodging etc.

---

Strafe is probably the single most important action on your keyboard. If you want max dps, you must always be facing your target. I was really forced to learn to strafe while pvping in WoW and it is, hands down, the most important aspect of MMO gameplay. Especially in T11 where you have to take so many rounded paths. Strafing while moving your camera allows you to make circular paths. If you are not very good at it, spend some time and learn. a good training strategy is to go to a target dummy and practice your rotation while running circles around it. If you can do that, you will be just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

Hehe I lol'ed at this one because last night our BLM was missing from our party. We did not have another caster except for my SMN, so I took the caster role for the party. I was able to dps down the cube at the same speed as our other dps finished the sphere (all averaging 380-400 dps) without issue. That BLM who was only at 15% must've been struggling if i could keep up with SMN ;)

Though to be fair, BLM don't do all that well with movement, and you have to move a lot during that phase.

---

You are only moving as and when required because unlike the physical dps on the other side, you don't have to stay in melee range to soak repelling cannons. And good BLM knows how to move and cast.

How often are you using Paeon? It may be more beneficial for you to BV Paeon than to BV Requiem.

There are BRDs that BV Paeon? o__O ...Maybe in a triple melee config, I guess. Or something like t8 w/ 4 melee + BRD.

You'd have to be using Paeon for around 30s+ and have melee that somehow need 600+ TP in 30s to do that. The BRD using BV Paeon does not receive the additional TP bonus from BV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RinchanNau

There are BRDs that BV Paeon? o__O ...Maybe in a triple melee config, I guess. Or something like t8 w/ 4 melee + BRD.

---

With 2 Melees it is more beneficial to BV Paeon. Less time in Paeon, More Mana for Foe. BRD loses less DPS and casters still gain more DPS through more uptime on Foe. I know there are several high-end BRD's who prefer that. People just don't think outside of the box.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lavieh

With 2 Melees it is more beneficial to BV Paeon. Less time in Paeon, More Mana for Foe. BRD loses less DPS and casters still gain more DPS through more uptime on Foe. I know there are several high-end BRD's who prefer that. People just don't think outside of the box.

---

Please name and provide statements from these 'several high end BRDs'. Results are good too. Having BV Paeon for when melee may be wanting some TP would mean not even opening with BV Foe's in most fights. Does not make sense to me.

I am certainly open to different ideas so I'd love some data on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RinchanNau

Snip.

---

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...i250?context=3

Carraway Arthur, BG's BRD. Most relevant post I could find on it.

If you consider a 6-7 minute fight, you can only use BV twice in the fight. If you BV your first paeon as opposed to your first Foe you can spend less time in Paeon which will in return give you more damage back and you can spend more time in Foe later on which will equalize or overtake the damage you gain from BV Foe at the start. Of course in fights where TP won't be an issue or maybe even fights that last sub 6 minutes, Starting BV would be ideal but we are assuming most fights don't last longer. Also this would be relatively useless for High SKS brds (The poor souls) as they most likely need Paeon for their own TP regeneration, so they would play it longer regardless.

He seems to be more of a jack of all trades more than BG's BRD. No doubt a very good player. Isn't Icy their BRD?

Regardless, nowhere does he claim that his preference is better. Just that it is his preference. Might it be better? It could be. Hard to say without a series of tests which would also be dependent on the players and group config.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RinchanNau

He seems to be more of a jack of all trades more than BG's BRD. No doubt a very good player. Isn't Icy their BRD?

Regardless, nowhere does he claim that his preference is better. Just that it is his preference. Might it be better? It could be. Hard to say without a series of tests which would also be dependent on the players and group config.

---

Of course there are definitely variables that would make BV Foe more favorable over BV Paeon. I also mentioned it "Maybe" more favorable for OP to BV Paeon over Foe depending on his setup. There is definitely sound logic behind using BV Paeon over BV Foe in certain situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

You are only moving as and when required because unlike the physical dps on the other side, you don't have to stay in melee range to soak repelling cannons. And good BLM knows how to move and cast.

---

A good magical DPS member attacking cube will be smart enough to stay within range of the healers that are travelling with the sphere party so that they can be in range for medicas. Sure, you can stand off to the side and never move if you like, but it will make your healer's job harder. And yes, good BLM players understand how to move without losing much DPS, I was merely pointing out that that portion of the fight had a lot of movement to it, since the whole group is rotating around the arena and noone can stand in the center

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lavieh

Of course there are definitely variables that would make BV Foe more favorable over BV Paeon. I also mentioned it "Maybe" more favorable for OP to BV Paeon over Foe depending on his setup. There is definitely sound logic behind using BV Paeon over BV Foe in certain situations.

---

Personally the only time I would BV a Paeon is when shit really happens and your melees are dead, raised without Invigorate on hand. Then maybe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

A good magical DPS member attacking cube will be smart enough to stay within range of the healers that are travelling with the sphere party so that they can be in range for medicas. Sure, you can stand off to the side and never move if you like, but it will make your healer's job harder. And yes, good BLM players understand how to move without losing much DPS, I was merely pointing out that that portion of the fight had a lot of movement to it, since the whole group is rotating around the arena and noone can stand in the center

---

That's of course, but OP's team might not know. That 15% difference on that cube is puzzling, just pointing out what the mage might have done wrong. 15% is just too much considering cube have significantly less HP.

just to continue the story, i was in t12 training pt the other day. No one is saying my dps is low.. but someone say at t12 a bard should be able to do upward of 400-450 while a monk is 500+. I am not seeing how it is possible but then my bard is a bit under gear for t12. Also I use controller so I can't strafe. But would losing on auto attack account for 100 dps lost?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellos2099

just to continue the story, i was in t12 training pt the other day. No one is saying my dps is low.. but someone say at t12 a bard should be able to do upward of 400-450 while a monk is 500+. I am not seeing how it is possible but then my bard is a bit under gear for t12. Also I use controller so I can't strafe. But would losing on auto attack account for 100 dps lost?

---

Your weapon is IL110 Novus - which is a tad low by average standards. Unless you are those dudes from Lucrezia/Collision who pushes numbers to the limits, then you need to do something about your weapon, real soon. IL115 weapon is kind of the minimum standards where the first few teams who cleared T12 in week 1 of Patch 2.4 still barely scratch the hard enrage timer.

400-450 is definitely attainable once you have a better weapon and gear combination at around IL120ish but it also depends how much songs you have to play for your team. During progression you might need to play extended periods of ballad for your WHM which will definitely make a dent in your DPS.

Auto-attack wise, given my current gear set up at IL122-123, auto attacks are about 80DPS without any buffs used. In an actual battle, with buffs it should contribute to an higher amount, as such losing auto attacks frequently could cost you some DPS as well.

wah 450 in t12? this is without songs/drg?

in our last clear i was 425dps on t12. this was my gear set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P5RG i120 using lava toad hq accuracy food. (i got t12 pants after clear :D )

for my static we run 2brds 1drg 1blm setup. the other bard (my beloved) is on tp song duty.

he opens with foe+bv. i follow with foe+bv. then in p2 he sings tp song. and from their we rotate foe. (tp/mana songs during plumes in last phase and transitions).

t12 is hard to judge dps. since during bennues sometimes we hold dps till the big bennu spawns waiting for the flames of rebirth (while small bennus at 10%hp)

if you wanna judge dps. judge for p1/2 only :/ t10 is good indication of dps. since there are no breaks!

Well, I have the ha bow to use but i am using the novus to get light.. working on relic

you need a better bow for t12 ><

if you want to hit +400dps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empty-handed

wah 450 in t12? this is without songs/drg?

in our last clear i was 425dps on t12. this was my gear set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P5RG i120 using lava toad hq accuracy food. (i got t12 pants after clear :D )

for my static we run 2brds 1drg 1blm setup. the other bard (my beloved) is on tp song duty.

he opens with foe+bv. i follow with foe+bv. then in p2 he sings tp song. and from their we rotate foe. (tp/mana songs during plumes in last phase and transitions).

t12 is hard to judge dps. since during bennues sometimes we hold dps till the big bennu spawns waiting for the flames of rebirth (while small bennus at 10%hp)

if you wanna judge dps. judge for p1/2 only :/ t10 is good indication of dps. since there are no breaks!

---

Control your DPS on the bennus properly so that one dies after another, it is doable.

Right now if your team deals with P1/P2 fast enough, there is no need for any Paeon at all (when you are DPS-ing). After the 4th Bennu dies in P2, immediately play Paeon as Phoenix jumps into phasing and switch to Foe Req once the bennus spawns. You should manage to pull about 2-3 ticks there which is good. At around 10 stacks of flames, P3 should be ideally done and you have another 2 ticks of auto regen or so until Phoenix returns and becomes attack-able. P4 itself have 2 breaks which means you won't have TP issues either.

In between the 2 breaks you can play Ballad if your WHM needs it. The WHM I ran with this week doesn't need any Ballad literally but I still top him up a little during the 1st jump in P4, then I change to Foe Req for the rest of P4.

For DPS wise, I asked one of the group in my FC, the Bard dealt 470 for T12 this week, but there is a dragoon in the team. He uses the 125 relic and average IL about 125ish as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellos2099

Well, I have the ha bow to use but i am using the novus to get light.. working on relic

---

Ooh, don't farm light in a weekly raid you're still learning and is tuned to a higher gear level than that. Always show up in your Lightsday best!

Best regards,
someone whose best weapon being Novus was a contributing factor to holding back our T12 clear

Of course I ma using my ha bow while raiding XD.

You dont need to be at 400+ dps to clear T12 as a bard.
The clear I did this week was rather funny: all the dps were at 390 dps (+/-1), and we cleared.
This is enough, without hitting the enrage (OK, we were close :D)