Carbontwine/Carboncoat from WoD... Adopt the Shiva Ex dust drop method

Unless it's too late, please use the Shiva Extreme dust drop method for this...

So that you're guaranteed one twine or coat after a certain amount of runs.

Put a cap of the number of "dusts" per week you can get, and make that number enough to buy a Carboncoat... Set "price" of Carbontwine higher, so you have to save up to buy one.

Either use this method exclusively or mix it with an actual coat/twine drop that you can lot on...

Just don't have only low drop rate like sand/oil in ST was originally, where you could run it several times per week and be outlotted every time they actually did drop...

Edit: A more refined proposal below...

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Originally Posted by Odowla

I think a hybrid system woyld be best.

Say, currency cap of ~25, item cost is also 25
Currency drops one at a time, but the item has a small chance of dropping. If it drops, however, still doing the dungeon or whatever content it is, drops no more currency.

This would allow you to get your item eventually, and also gurantee you want to do the content. Getting the drop? No more currency, but you got the item for this week, so you were done farming. Next week you didnt get it? okay, just do 10 more and you get the item, OR it drops, etc, but the # of item per week needs to be capped, or the problem of being done gearing occurs faster.

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Personally I like needing the items vs other people more.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Unless it's too late, please use the Shiva Extreme dust drop method for this...

So that you're guaranteed one twine or coat after a certain amount of runs.

Put a cap of the number of "dusts" per week you can get, and make that number enough to buy a Carboncoat... Set "price" of Carbontwine higher, so you have to save up to buy one.

Either use this method exclusively or mix it with an actual coat/twine drop that you can lot on...

Just don't have only low drop rate like sand/oil in ST was originally, where you could run it several times per week and be outlotted every time they actually did drop...

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Do Coil then.

/thread

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Do Coil then.

/thread

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And get a 1/8 chance of winning the lot... And have no further chance until the next week... Get real.
I don't see why you're against the idea of actually having guaranteed progress towards something.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Do Coil then.

/thread

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Yeah, cause doing coil is sooo much better... ST was annoying trying to get the weekly oils/sands/UAT, but at least you could try as many times as possible, unlike coil where you only have one go a week.

I also wish they make it somewhat different, cause it's not fair if you don't get it during a weekly lockout, even though you try many times every day of the week (have happened)... That's just stupid.

People never be happy.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Just don't have only low drop rate like sand/oil in ST was originally, where you could run it several times per week and be outlotted every time they actually did drop...

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The chance that sand/oil is in the last ST chest is by 100%. Was already this way since sand was put into ST.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The chance that sand/oil is in the last ST chest is by 100%. Was already this way since sand was put into ST.

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It was not. There was a chance of sand or oil in last chest at 2.3 release, but it was not 100% until later.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

It was not. There was a chance of sand or oil in last chest at 2.3 release, but it was not 100% until later.

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Sands were not added until 2.38 - and it was in the same patch that they changed the drops to guarantee two oils, sands, and unidentified tomestones total from the instance. (Sauce: patch notes)

And if you're having that much trouble getting a drop, you could always get a pre-formed party together for it...

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

And if you're having that much trouble getting a drop, you could always get a pre-formed party together for it...

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It's a QOL thing...
Example:
RNG option: Drop rate 1/3 (33.33...%)... 8 man party premade... Expected number of runs for everyone to each get the item: 24 (between 8 and infinity number of runs in reality)
vs
"dust" option: 24 "dust" drops needed for one item, 1 drop per run... Number of runs for everyone to each get the item: 24

This is just an example of how it could be done... But why is the first option better than the second in your opinion? Since you seem to be against the idea that someone can get the item after a set number of runs...

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

And get a 1/8 chance of winning the lot... And have no further chance until the next week... Get real.
I don't see why you're against the idea of actually having guaranteed progress towards something.

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Because every time you do coil and clear t11/12/13 all 8 people lot, right? Real, every week someone has a 100% chance or a 50% chance, no worse. Unless you pug, pick your poison I guess.

You also don't need any gear higher than ilevel 110, so not getting a Coat/Twine isnt the end of the world; every fight in the game can be beaten with just that.

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It's a QOL thing...
Example:
RNG option: Drop rate 1/3 (33.33...%)... 8 man party premade... Expected number of runs for everyone to each get the item: 24
vs
"dust" option: 24 "dust" drops needed for one item, 1 drop per run... Number of runs for everyone to each get the item: 24

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If that's how it works it goes like this:

Week 1: Everyone farms all the items, however many clears it takes for tokens

Week 2: Everyone is gone, they've gotten all their gear, and have no further reason to play because they did everything that used to take a patch in a week.

That is why RNG is better than a token system; RNG means you have to throw time at it, for a chance of still not getting it - longevity, even if it's frustrating.
Tokens just means "Everyone run XYZ times, you get every piece of gear/glamor/whatever that you want, end of, time investment could be 200 hours or 2 hours and give the same result. (this method also feels like much more of a grind - "ugh, 10 more STs and i'll have my item, only 5 to go, ugh", etc.

Its partly so in an MMO, people have a reason to stay subbed - otherwise it would really just be all the players farm the shit out of everything in the first week, then after that no one logs in for 6 months when new gear comes out.

Yeah, that's why nobody does hunts at all anymore.

Oh, also nobody ever runs ct2 either.

How to guarantee sand/oil items from FCoB in 2 easy steps!

1. Build a static with equitable loot distribution rules
2. Kill the boss

Congratulations, you now have one every 8 weeks (4 weeks once you can kill T13). Also, they will be raining from the sky again in 2.5 which isn't that far off.

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Originally Posted by ExponentialDecay

Yeah, that's why nobody does hunts at all anymore

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Well, that and no poetics (they used to be EZ mode to cap tomes) on all but S Ranks, and no one really needs their soldieries anymore after the great farm of 2.3.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

How to guarantee sand/oil items from FCoB in 2 easy steps!

1. Build a static with equitable loot distribution rules
2. Kill the boss

Congratulations, you now have one every 8 weeks (4 weeks once you can kill T13). Also, they will be raining from the sky again in 2.5 which isn't that far off.

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Agreed, lol. (like stated above - someone has either 100% or 50% chance (i.e. both healers, both tanks lotting, OR a DPS, single healer, ETC, based off of Weapon >Lowest iLevel > lack of drops > BiS > Highest ilevel > Freelot, generally. )

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Originally Posted by Odowla

You also don't need any gear higher than ilevel 110, so not getting a Coat/Twine isnt the end of the world; every fight in the game can be beaten with just that.

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So what if I don't need more than i110? I want to dye my poetics gear.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

If that's how it works it goes like this:

Week 1: Everyone farms all the items, however many clears it takes for tokens

Week 2: Everyone is gone, they've gotten all their gear, and have no further reason to play because they did everything that used to take a patch in a week.

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Yeah no... That's why in my original post I said that there would be a cap on how much you can get every week... And even wrote that Carbontwine could get a higher "price" so you can't get it in only one week.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Well, that and no poetics (they used to be EZ mode to cap tomes) on all but S Ranks, and no one really needs their soldieries anymore after the great farm of 2.3.

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Actually, I was being facetious because people are still doing hunts at nearly all hours of the day.

RNG really has no place in catch-up mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

So what if I don't need more than i110? I want to dye my poetics gear.



Yeah no... That's why in my original post I said that there would be a cap on how much you can get every week... And even wrote that Carbontwine could get a higher "price" so you can't get it in only one week.

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So... Allagan Tomestones of Poetics? You already have those. Again, tokens make it feel like a grind, I know if I've been busy that week (work, school, extra raid hours, life stuff), It REALLY feels like a grind to cap out on a Saturday or a Sunday, even Monday. Grinding, for most people, is just really, really boring. I'd rather have the thrill of "did I win? YES, finally!" every couple of days than to run 25 Dungeons a week or w/e to get the tokens to upgrade.

As for dying poetics gear. Most of them look preeetttty bad dyed. But, eventually they'll just be handed out with 2.55, most likely. Patience!

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Originally Posted by ExponentialDecay

RNG really has no place in catch-up mechanics.

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Fair point, but being able to farm it all in a day doesnt really make sense either. I know you can cap it, but then it feels like more of a chore, as well. Who wants to do chores in anything but a housewife simulator? (this is a joke >: )

Example: Hunts - I know I got the Myth for like 3 books in a day and a half doing Hunts, it sped along my whole relic letting me basically bypass the whole grind part of it.

I'd much rather it be RNG at the start of the catch-up patch, maybe with a higher drop rate than ST was for Oils originally - in fact I thought it was well done overall, except for maybe the overall Oil:Clear ratio.

Start with coats, then add in twines as seen fit (they usually go with coil progress being the determining factor) with a moderate-to-high % drop rate, divided by 8 (assuming all rolling). A lot better than just kill x z times, here you go have a coat/twine.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Start with coats, then add in twines as seen fit (they usually go with coil progress being the determining factor) with a moderate-to-high % drop rate, divided by 8 (assuming all rolling). A lot better than just kill x z times, here you go have a coat/twine.

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I don't mind if it's coats only at first...
But, what do you think about a mix of RNG and token?
That way you can get lucky and win the lot for the item, but also know that you don't have to run it more than X times if you have bad luck with the lots.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

I don't mind if it's coats only at first...
But, what do you think about a mix of RNG and token?
That way you can get lucky and win the lot for the item, but also know that you don't have to run it more than X times if you have bad luck with the lots.

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I think a hybrid system woyld be best.

Say, currency cap of ~25, item cost is also 25
Currency drops one at a time, but the item has a small chance of dropping. If it drops, however, still doing the dungeon or whatever content it is, drops no more currency.

This would allow you to get your item eventually, and also gurantee you want to do the content. Getting the drop? No more currency, but you got the item for this week, so you were done farming. Next week you didnt get it? okay, just do 10 more and you get the item, OR it drops, etc, but the # of item per week needs to be capped, or the problem of being done gearing occurs faster.

edit: This should go without saying, get drop or spend the currency, either results in further drop rate reduced to 0 (or you could potentially spam the content in the hopes you get 4 per week, or more)

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Originally Posted by Odowla

I think a hybrid system woyld be best.

Say, currency cap of ~25, item cost is also 25
Currency drops one at a time, but the item has a small chance of dropping. If it drops, however, still doing the dungeon or whatever content it is, drops no more currency.

This would allow you to get your item eventually, and also gurantee you want to do the content. Getting the drop? No more currency, but you got the item for this week, so you were done farming. Next week you didnt get it? okay, just do 10 more and you get the item, OR it drops, etc, but the # of item per week needs to be capped, or the problem of being done gearing occurs faster.

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I'm ok with this :)

The OP has only cleared up to T7, I don't see how Carbontwine & Carboncoat even effects them yet.
Most statics plan these out and take turns in who gets them in FCoB.

I never really liked sands and oils being in ST as it was, I'm pretty sure they were a late addition to ST though.
Either way a lot of groups haven't cleared FCoB yet it's not really fair to have them drop from WoD any time soon.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

The OP has only cleared up to T7, I don't see how Carbontwine & Carboncoat even effects them yet.

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As I pointed out in another post, I want to dye my poetics gear, which I can only do if I upgrade the pieces.

It honestly sounds like more of a request to SE to allow dying of the ilvl 120 Poetic gear and not make any changes to carbon / twines at this time for where they drop or their drop rate.

doing 10 crystal towers sounds PAINFULL

They've already made it too easy via the announcement that it won't be part of the weekly lockout for loot there.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

doing 10 crystal towers sounds PAINFULL

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like i said, token drops = PAINFUL grind, lol

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

They've already made it too easy via the announcement that it won't be part of the weekly lockout for loot there.

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It will be a separate lockout...
Shared lockout as with ST -> noone lots on gear and run only for the items
Split lockout as planned for WoD -> people will run for gear and items

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

It will be a separate lockout...
Shared lockout as with ST -> noone lots on gear and run only for the items
Split lockout as planned for WoD -> people will run for gear and items

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That's not what they've said. "We’ll introduce the upgrade items as loot, but they will be separate from the weekly reward since players were having trouble deciding which piece of loot that they wanted last time."

"seperate from the weekly reward" means they're not part of that lockout. It is possible they'll be a different lockout, but that's not what that statement says. Right now the emperor throne gem and onion knight minion are "seperate from the weekly reward".

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

That's not what they've said. "We’ll introduce the upgrade items as loot, but they will be separate from the weekly reward since players were having trouble deciding which piece of loot that they wanted last time."

"seperate from the weekly reward" means they're not part of that lockout. It is possible they'll be a different lockout, but that's not what that statement says. Right now the emperor throne gem and onion knight minion are "seperate from the weekly reward".

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Because you can't upgrade your gear with those two. And you have to roll against everyone else in the raid, not only your party.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

Because you can't upgrade your gear with those two. And you have to roll against everyone else in the raid, not only your party.

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Reasons why are irrelevant, just responding to the person saying that "seperate from the weekly reward" means it'll be its own weekly lockout, which is in no way a sure thing.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

That's not what they've said. "We’ll introduce the upgrade items as loot, but they will be separate from the weekly reward since players were having trouble deciding which piece of loot that they wanted last time."

"seperate from the weekly reward" means they're not part of that lockout. It is possible they'll be a different lockout, but that's not what that statement says. Right now the emperor throne gem and onion knight minion are "seperate from the weekly reward".

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You are aware that it could also mean that they are on their own, separate weekly lockout, yes?

Exclusivity is one hell of a drug, isn't it?

I'd be very much for splitting off upgrade items from gear rewards. That was the one thing that baffled me about Syrcus Tower. Forcing that kind decision almost always led to gear being left on the table.

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Originally Posted by MrLeonheart

You are aware that it could also mean that they are on their own, separate weekly lockout, yes?

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Of course. I even said that in the post you quoted.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

I never really liked sands and oils being in ST as it was, I'm pretty sure they were a late addition to ST though.
Either way a lot of groups haven't cleared FCoB yet it's not really fair to have them drop from WoD any time soon.

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what? WoD itself isn't coming out any time soon. FCoB is primarily for Dreadwyrm gear, having Poetics upgrade items gated behind FCoB is already going to be a 3 month delay. there's only a small window when this stuff can come out.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

what? WoD itself isn't coming out any time soon. FCoB is primarily for Dreadwyrm gear, having Poetics upgrade items gated behind FCoB is already going to be a 3 month delay. there's only a small window when this stuff can come out.

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WoD is 2.5, that's already known. And we know 3.0 is "spring". 2.5 could even be next month or February.

I don't see why people care if they upgrade their gear...

In like THREE months all this gear will be null and void with level cap. Lol