Turn 11 Tank DPS

I'm having a hard time managing the numbers in T11 that I should be capable of performing. In T10 in 2 clears my better parse was 241 dps.

I've only asked twice in T11 (both times only making it to adds phase), and the numbers were 195 and 185. (I'm a Warrior)

In T10, I use 3 Str accessories and I can switch Defiance off a lot, as well as my out of Berserk rotation is SE -> BB. Last phase I use a lot of SP though.

In T11, I've heard the numbers should be roughly the same as T10. I find due to the sheer amount of pain me and my co-tank receive, I have to go 30 Vit, all Vit accessories, full time Defiance, and my rotation out of Berserk is SE -> SP.

The only way I can see to output more dps in T11 seems like it would be too risky. What do you guys do differently that manage 220+?

~200 seems about right for a full VIT i110 tank with i115 weapon. If you are tanking the cube, you will be doing less because of the damage reduction. There are ways to cheat off defiance in T11 but it's probably not really worth it until you have the fight on farm mode.

Melded i90 crafted accessories are the way to go here. They give you a substantial increase in dps while not sacrificing much HP.

If you have full VIT accessories, you can probably get away with going 30 STR, but it all depends on your healers.

I may try 30 Str once we get last phase down, if we have trouble with Enrage. Although last night we did get to see tether for first time, unfortunately Egg was still alive. But we had a dps death or 2 in that phase.

So, there's a few things that you can do in T11 to boost your DPS.

The first one is the most costly, but is also the biggest increase you can get in ALL of FCoB and that is investing in HQ Ruby/Topaz accessories melded with (at the very least) VIT/STR. This gives you the best of both worlds, enough VIT to comfortably survive off tanking all of FCoB and a large amount of STR that the VIT accessories don't have attached to it. This is the best possible way to boost your DPS and I would recommend any WAR progressing in FCoB to invest in them. Ruby accessories come preloaded with +16 SS per piece, allowing you to achieve the 9 hit Berserk combo with only a few pieces, so (to a point) those are the better option. Obviously if you don't need all the VIT they provide, you can swap some pieces out for pure STR accessories.

The second is that the cleave Kaliya does that needs to be split between the tanks is on a set rotation. It comes at very specific parts, and is the only time (in the first/second phase at least) that the OT needs to be in front of Kaliya. So if you do get down the timing for when they come, you can drop Defiance and stand to the side. Obviously you'll want to be in Defiance for Secondary Head swaps and have an IB ready, but aside from those two mechanics you don't actually need to be in Defiance in front of the boss. This changes in the last phase because of the tethers, but your DPS will increase substantially if you stance dance during the first/second phase.

The final one is knowing when you can and when you can't use BB. There are times (many of them really) in T11 where Path is completely unnecessary, so dropping Path for a rotation and using BB when it's safe will give you a bit more DPS.

All that said, your DPS on T11 shouldn't come at the cost of consistency. If your group is clearing the fight then I'd recommend against doing the second suggestion as it can go horribly wrong if you happen to mess it up. Ruby accessories help loads so I'd say those are great to invest in regardless, but don't go crazy and spend all your gil if they're unnecessary for your group. Always remember, you're a tank first and a DPS second, if you need to go 30 VIT, full VIT accessories, the whole 9 yards to survive the fight then that's what you have to do. This, however, is really only the case for MT of T13 and even then only with lower end gear. So the best advice I can give is invest in Ruby accessories and you'll be happy you did... until 2.5 when they're replaced with i110 crafted accessories! :D

Excellent suggestions, Spooky. Resonance comes very often so it'll take some time to get that down before I would attempt it. Group would be pissed if the MT died cause I'm over there standing on the side at the wrong time.

@Spook

Are you saying that some of those attacks are just normal cleaves that really don't need to be taken? I know that the split damage happens on one of the first 2-3 hits of the fight, but I just assumed every swipe was a split not a straight cleave.

I'm struggling so hard with whether or not to get ruby's melded. I'd love the skill speed, but with 2.5 like 7 weeks away I'm not sure if it would be worth the 3-4 mil to do the second-hand materia method of melding (with -10 det).

Coming from almost 9 weeks of raiding as a NIN/MNK and more recently PAL, I'm trying to get a handle on what's actually "worth it." My healers have asked me to stay full vit and leave my tank accessories on. My SCH tends to gush over 3.3k lustrates... I'd really like to experience what my dmg would look like with that amount of str...maybe I'll just put on str accessories and whomp on a striking dummy for a little bit.

HMMMMM.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

I'm struggling so hard with whether or not to get ruby's melded. I'd love the skill speed, but with 2.5 like 7 weeks away I'm not sure if it would be worth the 3-4 mil to do the second-hand materia method of melding (with -10 det).

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If you've done nothing to work toward Crafted i90 yet, I would argue that it may be best to just wait for 2.5. We will very likely get access to crafted i110 accessories, which will add 25 more STR when compared to i90 with the same loss of VIT(when compared to i130 VIT gear). Right now, crafted i90 sacrifices a max of 60 VIT for 65 STR. Everything will be happier if you can sacrifice 30 VIT for 90 STR instead.

I got parsed at 211 going into adds phase last night.

Then next run I thought I had performed better (we made it substantially into adds phase), but only had a turrible 183. So I'm thinking it's the adds killing me. I'm constantly finding myself running out of range to move away from the stupid egg. Do you tanks try to stay in melee range and slowly move? I find the sphere doesn't look to move consistently.

It won't move unless you get out of its hit box, so you have to get out of melee range to move it.

The only suggestion I can give for the adds is to try to move when your GCD is running. Dunno what your rotation is for the adds atm, but Unchained should be up when your add spawns, save Zerk for this if it is. For progression you'll want to put up Path on your add so you can't really min/max that much but just try to minimize your movement while your GCD is up and use offensive CDs.

Edit: You can also drop Defiance and pop Vengeance for a pseudo-Shield Oath as long as you've built enough hate on the add. Same applies to Thrill + Conv = Defiance. So optimally you'd want something like Unchained -> BB combo with Zerk + IR if available -> SP -> Fracture -> IB -> BB combo -> turn off Defiance while pacified and pop Vengeance -> SE -> BB -> etc. Use Fracture after pacified if you don't have enough SS for the 9 hit combo. You get the idea.

I combine Unchained + Berserk + Internal Release + Vengeance + Bloodbath (leading into it with SE combo - HS, SS, then 3 offensive buffs, BB, 2 defensive buffs, SE combo, IB, Infuriate, IB.. then I get like 2 attacks, hard to optimize that section currently with my Skill Speed. But for ~15 seconds my DPS spikes tremendously.

I use that twice in the first phase, so I don't have the third until my Sphere is around ~30% in our attempts.
I assume with timing I'll be able to use that combo 3 times in last phase, for a total of 6 times in the fight.

I'm out static PLD but a few things that help:

Lock on target the boss so you don't miss AAs while dodging.

Learn the nerve gas rotations he always uses the same 3 so after the 2nd has you can already be in position to dodge the 3rd. You don't have to stand in front.

Select a single tank to handle head. Two reason one tank won't have to worry about hate and you won't get weird hate swaps leading to wipes. (One target gets stunned the other gets the debuff)

WAR is on the sphere so you shouldn't lose DPS during adds. Drop defiance during vengeance and thrill.

Drop defiance for the egg.

Nothing changes for the final stage.


PLD DpS tip as long as your healers have HP sit in sword oath as much as possible. I put up shield oath during the second middle in prep for head then go right back into sword oath.

Tonight I pulled 251 in T10 and 223 was my best in T11. On our 15% run it was around 210 (207 I think).

I changed rotation to SE - BB as the go to rotation in phase 1. I used SP a bit during adds and kept it up during last phase.

depends on your gear and what you tanking but as war in general if you on cube about 240dps+ and if you on sphere 280-290+ with i115 weapon maybe more ;3

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Originally Posted by Gildarts

depends on your gear and what you tanking but as war in general if you on cube about 240dps+ and if you on sphere 280-290+ with i115 weapon maybe more ;3

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For now I have to keep 30 Vit and all Vit accessories. I asked group if they wanted me 30 Str or 30 Vit, and Scholar said 30 Vit. I also keep Defiance on full time out of fear of dying. And I haven't tried ducking to side between Resonances yet.


I also find I lose a lot of dps on adds (I tank Sphere). I find I constantly have to step out of range to move the stupid thing, so I'm losing a lot of auto attacks. I tried the lock on thing, but I could barely see where I was going.

You 30 Str and full Str or Ruby pentamelded accessories to pull those numbers?

Ruby goes a long way. +65 STR from pure VIT accessories is no joke. If your healers are uncomfortable with you going 30 STR, you obviously shouldn't - though you could go an alternative route with 15 VIT/15 STR.

If you're alright with watching vids for T11, here's one I'd recommend for WAR: http://www.twitch.tv/bokchoykn/c/5591137

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

For now I have to keep 30 Vit and all Vit accessories. I asked group if they wanted me 30 Str or 30 Vit, and Scholar said 30 Vit. I also keep Defiance on full time out of fear of dying. And I haven't tried ducking to side between Resonances yet.


I also find I lose a lot of dps on adds (I tank Sphere). I find I constantly have to step out of range to move the stupid thing, so I'm losing a lot of auto attacks. I tried the lock on thing, but I could barely see where I was going.

You 30 Str and full Str or Ruby pentamelded accessories to pull those numbers?

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on shpere you should be getting best numbers tbh but yea you might lose few AA but its fine keep smashing buttons !

those numbers with vit points and ruby jewelry and as i said could be higher but i was in pug so lol run out of tp and shit

Well we got in 2 raid nights this week. I changed to 30 Str, Diamond Axe from HA Axe, and I got the Ironworks Ring of Slaying.

In T10 on the clear I parsed at 303, previous best of 258.

In T11 first phase I got 297. T11 wipe at low % I was somewhere in 240s.


However, the bad news: we couldn't beat T11 this week in 4 1/2 hours. One of the biggest elements to the wipes was me dying to Resonance in the last phase. This was with ~10.5k hp's with food. One of the deaths I even popped Thrill of Battle moments before my death. Is Resonance an issue with you guys that don't go all Vit? I even had SP up entire last phase every time.

Not a WAR, but I talk a lot with my war who does some pretty sick Deeps in T11.

You can turn Defiance off in the last phase right after the tank swap mechanic and you don't have to turn it back on until the bosses first action after Nanospore jet (If he fires the rockets or if he starts Nerve gas, you need to turn defiance back on then).

As for people dying to resonance, no that almost never happens. Your healers may be having a problem?

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

Your healers may be having a problem?

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I go in with 10300 hp, Shiva 115 axe, Shiva DPS bracelet, Ruby ear/neck, dread fending ring, ironworks fending ring. Uhhhmm... Ironworks head, chest, legs, belt, Noct boots, dread hands. I do around 280 and almost exclusively do SP/SE. P1 I'm always out of Defiance unless I'm doing a main head, in add phase and last phase it is extremely rare that I would drop defiance. The extra healing and mitigation you get from IBs makes your healers' job a lot easier. I'd recommend that for now you push your DPS hard in and out of defiance only in P1, and then do your best to max dps in defiance 100% in P3. @ 10,500 all you need to survive a Main Head is Inner Beast, so rotate the rest of your CDs when your healers are dealing with mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

I go in with 10300 hp, Shiva 115 axe, Shiva DPS bracelet, Ruby ear/neck, dread fending ring, ironworks fending ring. Uhhhmm... Ironworks head, chest, legs, belt, Noct boots, dread hands. I do around 280 and almost exclusively do SP/SE. P1 I'm always out of Defiance unless I'm doing a main head, in add phase and last phase it is extremely rare that I would drop defiance. The extra healing and mitigation you get from IBs makes your healers' job a lot easier. I'd recommend that for now you push your DPS hard in and out of defiance only in P1, and then do your best to max dps in defiance 100% in P3. @ 10,500 all you need to survive a Main Head is Inner Beast, so rotate the rest of your CDs when your healers are dealing with mechanics.

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Boss doesn't use resonance inbetween the time frame that I pointed out, only reason why I would suggest dropping Defiance. Pushing WAR dps is all about pushing your limits anyway lol

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

Boss doesn't use resonance inbetween the time frame that I pointed out, only reason why I would suggest dropping Defiance. Pushing WAR dps is all about pushing your limits anyway lol

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I was agreeing with you, dude. You can push your limits all you want but it seems like he was also pushing his healer's limits, so you have to lay back on sacrificing mitigation for DPS if your healer's cant hang.

I kept Defiance on entire last phase.

Healing issue, probably to do with healer comfortability in the last phase. You should never be outright dying to the swipe as you'll be healed up before it happens - if you feel like you're at an uncomfortable amount of HP, pop a CD as you won't really need them for Secondary Head (or at least not all of them).

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

I'm having a hard time managing the numbers in T11 that I should be capable of performing. In T10 in 2 clears my better parse was 241 dps.

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241 in t10 with 3 str pieces is kinda "low", the main reason is that you shouldn't use path. Once you are comfortable and slightly overgeared for a turn path becomes quite useless(it's always good only in t11), especially if you have a pld and a ninja in party, if eye isn't up(and if you have a ninja you should maintain eye and say him to do normal combos for more dps) the lose dps, and you can think of that as you are losing dps. Once i managed to do 293 with all str jewels, maybe just one vit for acc, can't remember, and i had defiance all time, so with stance dancing or oting you should do much more.
In t11 the main way to increase the dps is to never use defiance at all(obv you need during adds) and use SE/SP on boss. With 10500+ hp you shouldn't have problems at all, nor your healers should, if they have there's something wrong, but the other tank obv has to have the tank stance on. You need to use defiance only when a head is coming and you have Infuriate, else just use conv+vengeance. With all penta or penta+str jewels and the 120/125 weapon your dps should easily go over 300

Yea I hit 303 in T10 last week. Stance dancing and 30 Str were probably the biggest contributors to the gain.

The Resonances getting me in the last phase were mostly ones right before Head, and once I believe was either resonance or auto critting me for over 3k after Head. Usually head is no real concern (though I did die to it once the other night), in fact in first phase the heal timing is rather beautiful and my health doesn't even seem to drop but for a moment, often with no CD up (just Defiance).

That last phase is just kicking our ass it seems, despite us having cleared once. I'm thinking maybe running one food this week set up as I was last week, and if I'm still dying I'll just throw on all Vit for T11 again.

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

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As other people said, your healers just need to get more comfortable with the fight, once they do you can play a little more riskier in T11, but for now I would suggest playing it safe.

Hit 231 on T10 MTing on PLD, never tank swapped, i110.
238 in T11, I bet I can get 280 range but we had 5 deaths and still cleared.

Check out this image:

http://i.imgur.com/5gvlwXl.png

369 PLD, 407 WAR in T10 (extremely geared group)

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

Yea I hit 303 in T10 last week. Stance dancing and 30 Str were probably the biggest contributors to the gain.

The Resonances getting me in the last phase were mostly ones right before Head, and once I believe was either resonance or auto critting me for over 3k after Head. Usually head is no real concern (though I did die to it once the other night), in fact in first phase the heal timing is rather beautiful and my health doesn't even seem to drop but for a moment, often with no CD up (just Defiance).

That last phase is just kicking our ass it seems, despite us having cleared once. I'm thinking maybe running one food this week set up as I was last week, and if I'm still dying I'll just throw on all Vit for T11 again.

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The trick is to use a cd before the resonance that preceds the head

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Hit 231 on T10 MTing on PLD, never tank swapped, i110.
238 in T11, I bet I can get 280 range but we had 5 deaths and still cleared.

Check out this image:

http://i.imgur.com/5gvlwXl.png

369 PLD, 407 WAR in T10 (extremely geared group)

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Lol I posted that pic in Whatsapp to my static earlier. Unbelievable. Just when I get proud of breaking the 300 milestone, someone breaks 400. I know he's a lot better geared, but damn. I hit 331 on a 3 minute dummy parse. No potions, food, or party buff though.

And those are some great numbers, Taint. Our Paladin hits 160 in T10. And I would say 160 for Paladin is good. And I would say 200 for Warrior is good.

The people that tend to post their numbers usually are way, way above average to get the job done. It skews what is considered normal.

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Originally Posted by Riyos

The trick is to use a cd before the resonance that preceds the head

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I need to figure out precisely when to pop the CD. It would be great to fit the Resonance and head in during its duration. I haven't found a list detailing exact timing of Resonance in the last phase. The DnT guide doesn't have it. However, I imagine it occurs just after the mechanic just before Head (either Nerve Gas or missiles/ bombs). I suppose there is little harm in being too early with the CD there.

Anyone know exact length of time between each new tethers?

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Hit 231 on T10 MTing on PLD, never tank swapped, i110.
238 in T11, I bet I can get 280 range but we had 5 deaths and still cleared.

Check out this image:

http://i.imgur.com/5gvlwXl.png

369 PLD, 407 WAR in T10 (extremely geared group)

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Lol I posted that pic in Whatsapp to my static earlier. Unbelievable. Just when I get proud of breaking the 300 milestone, someone breaks 400. I know he's a lot better geared, but damn. I hit 331 on a 3 minute dummy parse. No potions, food, or party buff though.

And those are some great numbers, Taint. Our Paladin hits 160 in T10. And I would say 160 for Paladin is good. And I would say 200 for Warrior is good.

The people that tend to post their numbers usually are way, way above average to get the job done. It skews what is considered normal.

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

I need to figure out precisely when to pop the CD. It would be great to fit the Resonance and head in during its duration. I haven't found a list detailing exact timing of Resonance in the last phase. The DnT guide doesn't have it. However, I imagine it occurs just after the mechanic just before Head (either Nerve Gas or missiles/ bombs). I suppose there is little harm in being too early with the CD there.

Anyone know exact length of time between each new tethers?

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If the gas is the second mechanic he will do resonance immediately after the third gas(occasioanlly killing a dps/healer that is trying to avoid the gas lol) and after 5 secs or so the stun
If the seeds is the second mechanic he will do resonance 5s or so after the second explosion, and after another 5 secs the stun
In both cases you can use a cd some sec before the resonance and still mitigate the head and some other AA

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Originally Posted by Riyos

If the gas is the second mechanic he will do resonance immediately after the third gas(occasioanlly killing a dps/healer that is trying to avoid the gas lol) and after 5 secs or so the stun
If the seeds is the second mechanic he will do resonance 5s or so after the second explosion, and after another 5 secs the stun
In both cases you can use a cd some sec before the resonance and still mitigate the head and some other AA

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Oh wow that should prove very useful info.

Like I said, one of my deaths was with ToB up, but I imagine that was a fluke, even given the consistency of deaths to that mechanic the other night.

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

Oh wow that should prove very useful info.

Like I said, one of my deaths was with ToB up, but I imagine that was a fluke, even given the consistency of deaths to that mechanic the other night.

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Path was up too?

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Originally Posted by Riyos

Path was up too?

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Yes. At least it should have been. I was using SE - SP during last phase.


Hmmm.. Now that I think about it, I didn't use SP every single time. Now I definitely did default to it during typical rotation, but anytime Berserk and Unchained were up I would SE - BB until I had IB + IB + Fracture. I forgot about that. Therefore, the SP would have fallen off for very short periods. I was mistaken when I said full uptime, as it was not quite full but close.

Whether a death ever occurred during that moment of needing time to apply SP after Pacification, I do not know. So perhaps I should either replace BB with SP during Berserk (gross) or use a big CD during that time if I am not quick enough with SP.

Ah tonight we one shotted T11 (first raid night of week too). Easily in fact. I hit 253 with being very conservative with SP over BB in last phase.