FCoB parry block data

Im hoping to compile various parry/block rates in FCoB. Parry vs trash mobs is pretty well dissected but parry rates seem to drop drastically in FCoB.

i130 shield and 595 parry.

3hrs of turn11 (don't ask)
32% block rate
11% parry rate

90min of turn12
28% block rate
8% parry rate

I will post more data as I complete more FCoB and I'm hoping others will chime in as well. I only thought to do this after looking over my t11 parse and noticing how low my parry rate was.

When dealing with PLD, I think it's misleading to separate Block and Parry. While they are technically different actions, they are both mutually exclusive and do the same exact thing. I think the better stat to use is to combine them into a percentage of attacks which were mitigated by either of them. All separating them shows is more evidence that Block is checked before Parry, proving something we already pretty well know: PLD gets less Parry rate point for point than WAR for each point of Parry because of that shield.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

When dealing with PLD, I think it's misleading to separate Block and Parry. While they are technically different actions, they are both mutually exclusive and do the same exact thing. I think the better stat to use is to combine them into a percentage of attacks which were mitigated by either of them. All separating them shows is more evidence that Block is checked before Parry, proving something we already pretty well know: PLD gets less Parry rate point for point than WAR for each point of Parry because of that shield.

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Sure, just add them together.

Yes we all know it's diluted but the math on parry does not add up in FCoB.

595 should be a ~28% parry rate.

Diluted by a 32% block rate brings it to 19%. With an observed rate of 8% over 3 hours.

Yes some attacks can't be either block or parried and RNG of blocks could be the case but a 3hr sample is pretty large. That's why I was asking for more data.

Odds are there is a parry/block/avoidance penalty for higher lvl mobs. The same way we need more acc to hit them, we also need more parry (and block rating) to parry/block them.

It may be like with 4 star crafting.
On 3 stars, reducing the difficulty of the recipe by 10 levels did something.
On 4 stars, reducing it by 10 levels does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

We may be seeing a similar Player Level VS Mob Level scaling here.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Yes some attacks can't be either block or parried and RNG of blocks could be the case but a 3hr sample is pretty large. That's why I was asking for more data.

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If what you used for testing allows you to(and you still have the data), can you filter things out so that you only have the observed Parry/Block rate for a single attack that is known to be blockable?

Only did T10 last night but 28% parry, 26% block rate. (608 parry rating)

So last week was just bad RNG. Pretty much sums up how bad parry is to stack however, its too unpredictable to rely on especially being calculated after blocks.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Only did T10 last night but 28% parry, 26% block rate. (608 parry rating)

So last week was just bad RNG. Pretty much sums up how bad parry is to stack however, its too unpredictable to rely on especially being calculated after blocks.

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Some numbers get skewed too... not sure if you are looking at Auto Attacks only from the mobs or all abilities, but also with how long Bulwark Lasts and raises your anticipated Block Rate to 88% during its duration, it really starts killing your average parry rate. Or you said 32%? Maybe I had did my math wrong earlier but I thought the 135 and 130 shields both were 28% with base DEX (need something like an additional 120 DEX over base on gear to raise 4%?), anyways its similar enough for the point I wanted to make.

I can try to remember to save a few parses next week too, I'm inclined to use data only on the main boss and autoattacks only though for what I'd post.

I've getting back into endgame these days on Pld. I remember before leaving, I would keep an eye on my parse numbers for my raid group to make sure I was pushing my CDs appropriately and making sure my current gear was helping. I noticed at my best, I could push a 28ish% block rate with a 20ish% parry in CoB. Again, before FCoB. So I'd need to re-gear and start parsing again to see where I stand. In looking at your stats so far, either they've changed something since I left, the new FBoC really don't want tanks to mitigated damage with block/parry, or something's off with the new BiS sets when it comes to tanking.

I'll post some numbers once I get some.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Only did T10 last night but 28% parry, 26% block rate. (608 parry rating)

So last week was just bad RNG. Pretty much sums up how bad parry is to stack however, its too unpredictable to rely on especially being calculated after blocks.

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Unpredictable, sure, but that data literally shows you proccing one of the two actions over 50% of the time. That is a full 20% higher than a Warrior can currently even hope to achieve. Even the unlucky data parsed last time was over 40%. As iLvls rise, a Paladin's passive mitigation may get even higher. High to the point of actually being able to rely on it to block the majority of attacks; a "higher" that can only be achieved by stacking Parry.

the new FBoC really don't want tanks to mitigated damage with block/parry, or something's off with the new BiS sets when it comes to tanking.

The most possible parry you can reach is somewhere in the 640-660 range, but it pretty much destroys all your other stats (since the only other stat you can gear doing that much parry is just accuracy).

Though its weird you say they don't want you to mitigate damage that way but all major damage can be pretty much mitigated through block and parry despite for a few attacks.

T10: Critical Rip can be block/parry... I think the Charge can too but not sure off the top of my head.
T11: Resonance, Main Head can be blocked and Parried
T12: Extremely Strong AA and Revalations can be Blocked and Parried (along with Sharp Beak and high AA damage from first Bennu's)
T13: Strong AA, Flatten, Death Sentence can all be Blocked and Parried. (Breaths and Ahk Mourn are the only major moves that cannot)

Its more that they WANT you to mitigate through block/parry, instead of just gearing DPS stats (well Crit) and cool downing everything though you can do that too :p This will be the highest parry and block you should be able to achieve before 3.0... they'll adjust the formulas for the new level cap so that it takes more than 13 parry for 1% parry rate etc.

I agree, the Block and Parry are intended for us to use to help mitigate damage and I hope that is still the case. I am merely staying out of inexperience in the FCoBs that the mechanics should still work and was relating my before absence parse data. if the new tiers differ in mechanic mitigation, then it would be news to me. As I see it, the later tiers are obviously more difficult and having BiS gear towards Block/Parry would probably give you the best results.

Again, I do not have any figures in front of me, but I do intend to measure my efforts and report them back with what I find.

Thank you for the tier by tier move sets that are most notable. :)

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Unpredictable, sure, but that data literally shows you proccing one of the two actions over 50% of the time. That is a full 20% higher than a Warrior can currently even hope to achieve. Even the unlucky data parsed last time was over 40%. As iLvls rise, a Paladin's passive mitigation may get even higher. High to the point of actually being able to rely on it to block the majority of attacks; a "higher" that can only be achieved by stacking Parry.

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Yes but you get most of that mitigation by default. A shield is always worn and parry is in the 500 range if you try and avoid it.

The debate is always is going from 500 to 600 or 650 worth it. Clearly it's not in FCoB. If you get hit every 3 seconds for 6min that's 120 hits per battle turn. 30% are blocked. Leaving 84 hits that can be parried. At 500 parry that leaves 69 hits. At 600 parry that leaves 63 hits.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Yes but you get most of that mitigation by default. A shield is always worn and parry is in the 500 range if you try and avoid it.

The debate is always is going from 500 to 600 or 650 worth it. Clearly it's not in FCoB. If you get hit every 3 seconds for 6min that's 120 hits per battle turn. 30% are blocked. Leaving 84 hits that can be parried. At 500 parry that leaves 69 hits. At 600 parry that leaves 63 hits.

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But right there, is that not the mitigation you are looking for? Any help is useful, especially for your support as well as for yourself.

As I've seen it, and I'm sure a lot of people here have too, this is really a balancing act and you'd need to find the sweet spot where Parry is falling into diminishing returns. This goes for blocking as well. Only the data captured will back up what really works at this point.

My latest from t10 tonight is 28% parry, 22% block, with 640 parry. that's over 10 mins 30 seconds.

Was also our first clear.

over the hour before we got the clear, with the same parry, it was 22% parry, 27% block

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Yes but you get most of that mitigation by default. A shield is always worn and parry is in the 500 range if you try and avoid it.

The debate is always is going from 500 to 600 or 650 worth it. Clearly it's not in FCoB. If you get hit every 3 seconds for 6min that's 120 hits per battle turn. 30% are blocked. Leaving 84 hits that can be parried. At 500 parry that leaves 69 hits. At 600 parry that leaves 63 hits.

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Complete avoidance of Parry at maximum iLvl while matching the Accuracy cap leaves 404 Parry, as shown here: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OUC1 .

This build provides 4.5% more effective STR than a full Parry set. I don't know if that directly translates to 4.5% more damage, but either way it really isn't much at all. The real question, then, is whether or not having 600 Parry will make you 4.5% more survivable as a counterbalance to the small extra damage.

Furthermore, while I haven't entered the Final Coil yet(that's tomorrow :D), I do hear that it's more friendly to Parry than the Second Coil. In terms of 2.4 fights, though, Shiva Extreme is intensely friendly to Parry, as well as the oft forgotten Awareness.

Thus, the best option for Tanks would probably to carry both sets around if possible. Take Parry into Parry friendly fights and take the extra damage into fights that aren't Parry friendly(I'm looking at you, Ramuh!). Of course, the hopefully at 2.5 introduction of i110 crafted accessories would allow us to have the best of both worlds by allowing us to meld on 90 STR at the cost of a mere 30 VIT. This is a increase of 8.1% effective STR over the full Parry set(12% over full parry if you're using none). If those accessories have Parry on them, you'd have a set of accessories that you'd never have to take off until the expansion.

FCoB does have mostly physical attacks. But parrying 4 more attacks per battle or 8 more with a 400 range parry attack is not going to save you. There is also a lot of tank swapping and dead time. The problem with parry is the number of extra hits you will parry per turn. I'll check my t11 parse if I still have it for how many hits I actually take in a clear. Its a very small number and I stand in front the entire time.

My point is if you only take 100 hits in 10 minutes and you parry is 15% or 25% that is only a difference of 7 attacks total with most of those being just AAs.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

FCoB does have mostly physical attacks. But parrying 4 more attacks per battle or 8 more with a 400 range parry attack is not going to save you. There is also a lot of tank swapping and dead time. The problem with parry is the number of extra hits you will parry per turn. I'll check my t11 parse if I still have it for how many hits I actually take in a clear. Its a very small number and I stand in front the entire time.

My point is if you only take 100 hits in 10 minutes and you parry is 15% or 25% that is only a difference of 7 attacks total with most of those being just AAs.

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Okay, here I think we're getting into thinking about Parry in the wrong way. It is absolutely true that no matter which way you look at it, Parry isn't going to be the thing that allows you to clear that content. That's skill with your non-RNG mitigation and good healers. All it will really do is occasionally save your healers 133 MP and/or potentially give you one more hit before you die in a hairy situation. You'll just be a bit more survivable with it, and more power to those who like it that way.

Why does Parry make such a small difference, then? Because it's a Secondary Stat. It's part of what I sincerely believe is a deliberate design decision from SE: Secondary Stats provide such small differences in performance that players have free reign to choose literally whatever they want without gimping their ability to complete content. It's a bit of a double edged sword: discrimination based on stat choice pretty much doesn't exist, but min-maxers and theorycrafters barely get any reward for "optimizing" their stats. Unfortunately, it has also led to a rash of people thinking that Secondary Stats truly matter just because they really want them to, when the reality is that they're mattering less and less with each iLvl increase.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

players have free reign to choose literally whatever they want without gimping their ability to complete content.

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Its still kinda sad that many classes wants DET/CRIT when you are choosing secondaries, but yeah like you said it wont make or brake the encounters but still those 2 stats are pretty superior compared to others(this all depends of job ofc)even if its marginal gain. Cant wait to see how they will tweak skill-speed in expansion tho, i bet it stays the same as it is atm but it will also give small TP regen boost.

Turn 13 Clear (Auto-Attack Data Only) with 512 Parry rating:

Auto's taken: 144
Parries: 20 (14%)
Blocks: 54 (38%)

Mobs included: Bahamut Prime, 2x Pain of Mercaydia, Storm of Mercaydia, 1x Sin of Mercaydia

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Cant wait to see how they will tweak skill-speed in expansion tho, i bet it stays the same as it is atm but it will also give small TP regen boost.

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Yah, I'm curious as well, but I have hope. Yoshi P stated at Fan Fest that Dark Knight (Tank) was going to be a Parry Tank, so I'm guessing in 3.0 Heavensward, they'll be tweaking various stats to make it more effective perhaps.