Stoneskin II

...is coming on Tuesday. :o

Details for those who don't already know: It's an AoE version of Stoneskin that can only be used outside of battle. A little QoL extra, nothing more.

I'm wondering how its damage prevention will stand up against Stoneskin, also there is the mp cost to consider. Though we will all see how it compares in a week I guess.

Pretty sure it's just stoneskin + AoE effect for it's original potency/value. But considering it cannot be used out of combat, yeah, it's a QoL thing. Glad it's not available for combat, though.

Really hoping they'll just modify the Graniteskin trait instead of giving us a new skill just for this QoL improvement.

Wouldn't prefer to allocate another hotbar slot for this skill if it's a brand new skill (but obviously I'll still will >_>).

Out of combat only? Meh. It seems almost pointless having it since it's a skill you can use once per fight literally unless somebody charges in and gets into combat before you even use it.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Out of combat only? Meh. It seems almost pointless having it since it's a skill you can use once per fight literally unless somebody charges in and gets into combat before you even use it.

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Its more or less a less time consuming variant for buffing the group after a wipe/before a pull, nothing else.

I hope they modify the original skill and not make it a trait for WHM only.

as a healer yes!!!!!
Saves time :)

Why would you want them to modify the original skill or trait? SE is not going to let you cast AOE Stoneskin in combat, as that would be a balance change that they're not prepared to face (at the moment, anyway). What you're saying is that you would give up the ability to cast in combat for the convenience of AOE outside combat. And if you really can't find a hotbar slot for it, here you go:

/micon "Stoneskin"
/ac "Stoneskin II" <mo>
/ac "Stoneskin" <mo>

Or any variant you prefer.

omgyesplz. *_*
Maybe now we can SS the whole party BEFORE everyone runs off.... =_=

Since its going to be a new spell, i am hoping they dont make it cost an obnoxious amount of mana. We will then go from waiting for individual stoneskin to be cast on party to waiting for whm mana to regen after casting absurdly high costing aoe stoneskin O.o. Other than that, can't tell you how much i am looking forward to this :).

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Really hoping they'll just modify the Graniteskin trait instead of giving us a new skill just for this QoL improvement.

Wouldn't prefer to allocate another hotbar slot for this skill if it's a brand new skill (but obviously I'll still will >_>).

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Just stick it in a macro with stoneskin I below it. If you're in combat it'll cast 1 and if you're not it'll cast 2. It only takes one button.

Hopefully mana cost is somewhere between 0 and double that of a normal stoneskin since the idea is to cut down on the wait time when prepping for a pull. Also this will be awesome for swiftcasting in between pulls when doing speed runs or just wanting to move along faster. Cant wait!!

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Originally Posted by Vorpal_Spork

Just stick it in a macro with stoneskin I below it. If you're in combat it'll cast 1 and if you're not it'll cast 2. It only takes one button.

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An excellent idea I'll keep in mind if I ever run out of hotbars to use once the expansion hits :).

It's too bad you can't queue macro hotkeys like you could with normal skills, otherwise I would have Macro-ed everything attack related to <f>.

I am pretty sure the aoe stoneskin will have the same mp cost. Doesn't make any sense to have it only out of combat AND give it a higher cost. The only reason to give it more MP would have been to let people allow to cast it in combat but with a huge cost attached, imo. So it couldn't be exploited at the cost of other skills.

Am I the only healer that already has a pre-battle macro for trials/Coil? This new spell will just reduce the macro from 10 lines down to 3

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/micon "Protect"
/ac "Stoneskin II" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Protect" <me>

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instead of

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/micon "Protect"
/ac "Stoneskin" <1> <wait.3>
/ac "Stoneskin" <2> <wait.3>
/ac "Stoneskin" <3> <wait.3>
/ac "Stoneskin" <4> <wait.3>
/ac "Stoneskin" <5> <wait.3>
/ac "Stoneskin" <6> <wait.3>
/ac "Stoneskin" <7> <wait.3>
/ac "Stoneskin" <8> <wait.3>
/ac "Protect" <me>

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I hope its a change on Stoneskin I to be honest, that way its less bar work (in combat single target, out of combat party) AND SCH would get it too. I run alot of dungeons as sch, I'd like this QoL change too!

My only worry, how will it work for SCH? If its a separate skill and cross-skill for SCH, the problem is that SCH already has 5 must carry cross-skills. This 6th one would not have any space. If this becomes the case, I will only carry the original Stoneskin for use during combat. That's more important to me. Personally I believe party stoneskin should only be done during progression fights. If you're a competent healer, it's not needed on farm content.

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Originally Posted by Ferocious

My only worry, how will it work for SCH? If its a separate skill and cross-skill for SCH, the problem is that SCH already has 5 must carry cross-skills. This 6th one would not have any space. If this becomes the case, I will only carry the original Stoneskin for use during combat. That's more important to me. Personally I believe party stoneskin should only be done during progression fights. If you're a competent healer, it's not needed on farm content.

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Why would you even want to cross class this? It's not like this'll help you in any way aside from it's intended purpose: QoL change.

Useful as SS2 seems to be, especially in saving time, there will sadly be that tank or 12 who won't wait for it.

I think it's likely to be a CNJ/WHM only spell, but even if that's not the case I will not be giving up the cross-class actions I have set for SCH in favor of this.

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Originally Posted by Ferocious

My only worry, how will it work for SCH? If its a separate skill and cross-skill for SCH, the problem is that SCH already has 5 must carry cross-skills. This 6th one would not have any space. If this becomes the case, I will only carry the original Stoneskin for use during combat. That's more important to me. Personally I believe party stoneskin should only be done during progression fights. If you're a competent healer, it's not needed on farm content.

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What 5th skill must you cross class. I'm only coming up with 4 must haves. Protect, Stoneskin, Swiftcast, Cleric Stance. The only others I could think of would be Surecast which is pointless and I'd drop it on WHM for something better and Aero which isn't a must have spell. The only other possible cross class skills are Cure, Raise which you already have copies of and Blizzard 2 which is useless for pretty much any class..

that's good, but personally I wish whm get something like "Sacred Prism" in 1.0 which makes the next spell aoe with longer casting time, and make it on long cooldown 4 or 5 min. but that also require making the cooldowns of the entire party reset after each wipe which is another needed QoL thing.

Bliz2 is good for AOE trash, aero is dps ticking over while you are healing.

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Originally Posted by Yonko

What 5th skill must you cross class. I'm only coming up with 4 must haves. Protect, Stoneskin, Swiftcast, Cleric Stance. The only others I could think of would be Surecast which is pointless and I'd drop it on WHM for something better and Aero which isn't a must have spell. The only other possible cross class skills are Cure, Raise which you already have copies of and Blizzard 2 which is useless for pretty much any class..

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Aero is the 5th must have. Its DoT ends up doing more damage than Ruin I/II, so yes it's worth using to maximize dps (especially on bosses). And while we're on this topic, here's the order you should take each cross-skill :

1. Cleric Stance
2. Aero
3. Protect
4. Swiftcast
5. Stoneskin

You take cleric stance/aero first, so you can dps in lower dungeons while your pet does solo healing. They can perfectly solo heal till at least Haukke Manor. The amount of times I see SCHs without cleric stance, it's quite irritating and lazy. First sign of a bad SCH.

Stoneskin is last because at lower levels, it's not worth using on small HPs. Protect isn't worth using at low dungeons either. Your pet can still solo heal without it as I have personally tested that. Same reason why Swiftcast is 4th because you can easily hard cast rez in low dungeons while your pet heals. Super rare you would see anyone die anyway.

So there ya go, a quick breakdown.

Interesting that noone is using E4E.

Think they're discussing about theoretically cross classing a SCH with SS II, and since E4E is their own skill, it's not brought up into their discussion :).

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Think they're discussing about theoretically cross classing a SCH with SS II, and since E4E is their own skill, it's not brought up into their discussion :).

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Oh duh, I am a total idiot -.-
Complete Brain freeze.

Cleric, Aero, Stoneskin, Swiftcast, Surecast here

Boy do I get stick in 4 man dungeons hehe =(

Thankfully the DPS usually gets people back on side!

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Cleric, Aero, Stoneskin, Swiftcast, Surecast here

Boy do I get stick in 4 man dungeons hehe =(

Thankfully the DPS usually gets people back on side!

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Do you find Surecast really more beneficial than Protect? I just recently switched it out since I pretty much never use it. Haven't had any issues in Final coil getting any spells off. I am aware in raiding situations you really don't need it but I find myself in 4men dungeons most of the time and protect comes it more handy there.

Funny thing about protect on scholar is that if I'm doing a guildhest or a low level dungeon, where fairy can easily solo-heal, people demand protect. But if I do a lvl 50 dungeon, people run off before I have chance to cast it (without swiftcast). Go figure. :D

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Originally Posted by Kyomih

Do you find Surecast really more beneficial than Protect? I just recently switched it out since I pretty much never use it. Haven't had any issues in Final coil getting any spells off. I am aware in raiding situations you really don't need it but I find myself in 4men dungeons most of the time and protect comes it more handy there.

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You are entirely correct, I'm yet to find a use for it in FCOB and in honesty, it's not been that useful since T4/T5. Consider it a bad habit I can't quite kick from my EQ/WoW days, utility > fluff buffs in my eyes. Wrong but I'm stuck in my ways =(

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Originally Posted by Urtear

Useful as SS2 seems to be, especially in saving time, there will sadly be that tank or 12 who won't wait for it.

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If you are in a 4 man dungeon just use Swiftcast. Hell even if you are in a raid you can blow Swiftcast to get this off in the case of an impatient tank. Nobody should by dying in the first 60 seconds of a fight and if they do then they deserve to wait for you to get an opportunity to cast the spell without disrupting the flow of heals with the cast time. Though I think the major issue in why tanks don't wait for it is that they don't even know it exists. I was running Snowcloak last night and the tank thought he was lagging out because he had no idea how I could cast Stoneskin that many times in such a short duration. So we just need to take it upon ourselves as healers to make sure tanks know that not only does Stoneskin 2 exist but it is really convenient and should be waited on.

Considering that Stoneskin II cannot be cast while in combat, I was a little bit disappointed that it has the same cast time as the first one.

I was hoping it would be a shorter cast, but I'm grateful that we got it regardless.

Uhhhhh the cast times are NOT the same. Stoneskin 2 has at least twice the cast time as the first. Also it makes sense for it to have a longer cast it is a more powerful spell.

stoneskin 2 has double the cast time and MP cost as stoneskin 1
still cuts down casting to half (light group) or even quarter (full group) to get all buffed - just sweet <3

It does cut the prep time by a good amount; however, as I said earlier you can just Swiftcast it meaning the cast is basically instantaneous and you have given everyone in your party Stoneskin. So impatient tanks should rejoice as we now have a way to buff the party without cutting into their time.

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Originally Posted by StrangeBard

Uhhhhh the cast times are NOT the same. Stoneskin 2 has at least twice the cast time as the first. Also it makes sense for it to have a longer cast it is a more powerful spell.

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Ah, my mistake.. I see now. Thanks for not biting my head off about it! XD

Well no wonder it feels so agonizingly slow when I cast it! Now that I know the specifics of its 6 second cast time I'm still let down a bit.
When I get into a dungeon people just want to go, go, go! Barely waiting for Protect buff. Of course I'm going to blow my Swiftcast for SS II so we can move on quickly.

I guess I'm going to have to reconfigure the way I handle buffs. Perhaps casting Swift & SS2 first and then Protect. It'll give Swiftcast a few seconds longer to recharge if I get that out first. And maybe I'll stop being so obsessive about keeping SS up in between trash pulls.

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Originally Posted by Mayh

I guess I'm going to have to reconfigure the way I handle buffs. Perhaps casting Swift & SS2 first and then Protect. It'll give Swiftcast a few seconds longer to recharge if I get that out first. And maybe I'll stop being so obsessive about keeping SS up in between trash pulls.

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I generally only apply SS to DPS before bosses because they rarely ever lose it and and shouldn't even be taking damage. As for with tanks? I use to be really anal about keeping it on them at all times between pulls. Not anymore. There are so many tanks who won't wait for it, and I've had too many instances where I would pull hate because they wouldn't wait for SS to finish, that I just say fk it. I'll cast it if I feel like it/have a chance.

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Originally Posted by StrangeBard

If you are in a 4 man dungeon just use Swiftcast. Hell even if you are in a raid you can blow Swiftcast to get this off in the case of an impatient tank. Nobody should by dying in the first 60 seconds of a fight and if they do then they deserve to wait for you to get an opportunity to cast the spell without disrupting the flow of heals with the cast time. Though I think the major issue in why tanks don't wait for it is that they don't even know it exists. I was running Snowcloak last night and the tank thought he was lagging out because he had no idea how I could cast Stoneskin that many times in such a short duration. So we just need to take it upon ourselves as healers to make sure tanks know that not only does Stoneskin 2 exist but it is really convenient and should be waited on.

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I put it in a macro that explains that I'm casting Stoneskin II and requests that the tank stop for a few seconds.