T8 Towers; how DF does it/should do it

So to my surprise I'm enjoying T8, despite DF epic failures time and time again; people not getting mechanics. I'm a patient lalafell. I'm currently running it on WHM (will do on NIN and PLD as well), and I'm able and willing to manage any of the little jobs but I haven't figured out if there's a STANDARD tower order/stacks being done in DF. My first time through I was told to get 2 stacks from dread tower and repeat, so that's what I've been doing but I notice Mines tower people sometimes taking 1 stack, sometimes 2. When I ask what the tower order is meant to be, I'm ignored.

Ive looked it up and found many different strats for towers, which is fine but then how are we expecting to down it in a group that has no predetermined order? Admittedly despite some research I don't fully grasp how towers work. I know at 5th charge it activates it's ability (dread, mines, AoE) and that standing in it causes it to gain stacks quicker. What I don't grasp is towers having the same stacks and how and when 2 towers having the same stacks causes the boss to get a buff and/or wipe the raid (5 stacks).

Ultimately I have 2 goals in mind. First is to be able to organize a hesitant DF party and keep everyone on track if I'm needed to. Second is that ill be farming this as a PLD with my super friends; a SCH and DRG. I'd like the three of us to be handling these mechanics to be less PF/DF-RNG dependant. We're all very capable but very casual players.

Thank you.

Haha... I'm in the same Turn 8 DF boat as you. I've even run with you once before - where I was on mine tower. I'm pretty sure it's safe now to get two stacks, so I take full responsibility for that tower.

Yes I remember! I know I can do 2 stacks just fine, but it's all about the sequence; which tower gets pushed for how many stacks and when, to ensure boss doesn't buff or instant-wipe us.

I set up a series of macros that basically says something like "2 MINES + 1 AOE stack, next tower set" following an order I got online. But since I'm still not totally grasping towers, I wouldn't comsider using it unless it happened to be a very patient, very desperate group XD

Basically, towers are powered as follow :

Dread tower (x2)

Mine tower (x2)

Dread tower (x2) Mine tower (x2)

Now SHOULD happen your first 3 towers set ^^

either mines + 2 AoE or Dread + Mines + AoE

all that with allagan field in between (which is a pain with mines btw)

For mines + 2 AoEs, my group does 2 stacks at mines + 1 on AoE (done by solo tank, MT if dual tanks), everything blows up while the person with allagan field hides in a corner, then the last AoE tower is activated by solo tank or OT BEFORE next allagan field.

For Dread + mines + AoE, we do 2 stacks on dread, 1 on mines, burn everything while allagan field's target hides in the corner, then activate the AoE tower before next allagan field.


My group kills it at this point, so I don't really know if there is an other set after that. I know if your dps is good enough you won't have the 2nd mine + AoE set before allagan field. Can be good for healers ^^

And that's the problem with asking for t8 advice.. It still doesn't make any sense lol

Just copy this into a macro. Arrange your party list so healers are in spots #2 and 3 right below you. If you are a healer, adjust to be <1> and <2> instead.

Code:

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Tower 1 [AoE+Dread] > <2> AoE x1
Tower 2 [AoE+Mines] > <3> Mines x2
Tower 3 [AoE+Dread] > <2> AoE x1
Tower 4 [AoE+Mines] > <3> Mines x2
Tower 5 [Mines+Dread] > Skipped
Tower 6 [AoE+AoE+Mines] > Tank AoE x2 then x1 after Field detonates (use cooldown), <2> AoE x1
Tower 7 [AoE+Mines+Dread] > <2> AoE x2, <3> Mines x1

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Appreciate the macro idea, I'm pretty comfortable with macro commands and will be sure to make them as clear as possible for the party. Also there's a long list of tower orders found at http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._i_understand/ as well as a guide, so finding a strategy isn't an issue, picking one that's most newbie-friendly is lol but I'm guessing from these posts that I was correct in assuming that DF isn't using a standard tower order, in which case we're winging it (some of us blindly lol). So if I'm going to organize a tower order with DF in mind, I'm under the impression that it's best to pick/devise one that avoids mines during the AF phase as much as possible, as I've read repeatedly that that's an issue for people.

I still need to work to understand the whole boss buff/party wipe aspect of the towers though...

As long as the towers are being activated, Avatar will not receive a buff. Doing nothing causes a buff. And doing nothing until all towers hit five bars is a wipe. You would literally have to ignore the towers completely for this to be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

As long as the towers are being activated, Avatar will not receive a buff. Doing nothing causes a buff. And doing nothing until the towers hit five bars is a wipe. You would literally have to ignore the towers completely for this to be an issue.

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Ahhh, that answers my question! Thanks!

So then it's all about when you want to force a mechanic to pop?

That's my understanding. My only concern is when to trigger the AOE towers during the third phase to avoid eating damage during AF.
You should look me up in game so we can put together a party of like-minded individuals.

There's some good discussions in the guide I posted above and I'm pretty sure it mentions doing just that, I'll look into it again.

And that's not a bad idea, I'm on most weekdays after 5PM~ EST, and most weekends. Unfortunately I won't be on until later tonight, if at all, currently en route to my sisters Bday dinner. I will look you up when I get the chance, I normally do stuff like this with my FC peeps, but not many are there yet, so I'm just having fun with it while I help them catch up.

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

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the general DF consensus on Chaos Datacenter is usually "activate Dread before Mines before anything else"

If you put the A and B markers on the towers, and explain where and when to go, it's usually pretty good (people wipe on ballistic no matter how much you explained though >< )

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

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not totally wrong, but not totally right either.

Each time two towers gain a level together, the boss will get a damage buff. That's why you "activate" them to give them some stacks in advance. That way the boss won't get buff. You don't need to stay in the tower after activating it (each activation gives a debuff on the people in it so it's easy to know how many stacks there are ^^)

If two towers fully charge at the same time (either ignored or receiving the same amount of stacks), you'll get a special reward : atomic ray ( 30k raid wipe :p )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

That's my understanding. My only concern is when to trigger the AOE towers during the third phase to avoid eating damage during AF.
You should look me up in game so we can put together a party of like-minded individuals.

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if you activate the last tower right when AF pops, it should explode before the next AF and prevent the wipe

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

As long as the towers are being activated, Avatar will not receive a buff.

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Thats not correct. The towers have to be out of sync that the boss gets no buff or goes enrage.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

the general DF consensus on Chaos Datacenter is usually "activate Dread before Mines before anything else"

If you put the A and B markers on the towers, and explain where and when to go, it's usually pretty good (people wipe on ballistic no matter how much you explained though >< )


not totally wrong, but not totally right either.

Each time two towers gain a level together, the boss will get a damage buff. That's why you "activate" them to give them some stacks in advance. That way the boss won't get buff. You don't need to stay in the tower after activating it (each activation gives a debuff on the people in it so it's easy to know how many stacks there are ^^)

If two towers fully charge at the same time (either ignored or receiving the same amount of stacks), you'll get a special reward : atomic ray ( 30k raid wipe :p )

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Thank you for the clarification, this is what I thought originally and what confused me was WHEN does two towers being at the same charge cause the boss buff/wipe, because it's inevitably going to happen as we push charges. So what you're saying is as we stand on the tower we rush the additional charges to that tower. Then every time the towers gain a charge naturally, if they hit the same number of charges, that causes the buff, and if they both full up at the same time (5 charges) then we wipe... So basically push them in any order as long as 2 towers aren't ignored or forcibly charged by the same number of stacks (otherwise it's buff/wipe during next natural charge). So now it's just a matter of timing the mechanic you want to deal with.

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if you activate the last tower right when AF pops, it should explode before the next AF and prevent the wipe

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When you say "activate" you mean force x number of stacks, or ensure that it's at 5 stacks when AF pops?

Sorry.. I should have been a bit more clear. I understand completely that tower charges need to be out of sync. Meant to say that as long as someone is pushing one of the towers in the first phases, they will be out of sync and Avatar won't receive a buff.

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

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if you force 2 towers to get a charge at the same time, the avatar will still get a buff (it's not restricted to natural increase).

When there are 3 towers, the usual way to do it is to make 2 people go in the tower you want to fully charge first and then 1 person in the 2nd tower. If you are quick enough, the 3rd tower shouldn't have had the time to get a natural charge and thus you won't have to worry about the boss getting a buff.

But yeah, it's basically this

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So basically push them in any order as long as 2 towers aren't ignored or forcibly charged by the same number of stacks (otherwise it's buff/wipe during next natural charge). So now it's just a matter of timing the mechanic you want to deal with.

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About this :

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When you say "activate" you mean force x number of stacks, or ensure that it's at 5 stacks when AF pops?

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yeah, tower activation refers to forcing a stack. Most of the time it's easier in DF to activate the towers twice when there are 2 towers because you can just send 2 people get their stacks and return to boss easily in a matter of seconds.

For the sets of 3 towers, the natural course of the fight if you activate one tower with 2 stacks and an other with 1 stack will make AF end just after the mechanic of the 2nd tower. If you activate the last tower just after that moment, the 3rd and last tower (usually AoE tower) will activate just before the next AF and you won't really need to worry about it thanks to that. If you don't activate the 3rd tower at the end, there is a high risk you won't be able to apply stoneskin + adlo in time to prevent damage and it will be a wipe.

(It happened during my group's first attempt at 6%. Imagine the rage xD )

Many groups I've been in seem to face Avatar north (ie. with his butt facing the Dreadnaught tower) but I find it way easier/more derp-proof to have him face east (butt facing the mines tower).

Firstly, this means the Dreadnaught spawns within Shield Lob/Tomohawk range so no scary Provoke dancing while it's en route (also means you don't have to expect healers to pay attention during the spawn so much).

It also means the tank can simply be told "when there's 3 towers, always stand in one directly behind you if it spawns". That takes care of that AoE tower.

Most groups seem to go 2x healers to Dreadnaught (either both healers or one takes two stacks) and 2x ranged to Mines (as before, either one or two depending on how you wanna do it).

Many ways to do it especially for the later parts with 3 towers. I haven't really tried that many DF but usually solo tank in PF.

I usually do:
Set 1: Dread x 2
Set 2: Mines x 2
Set 3: Dread x 2
Set 4: Mines x 2
Set 5: Skipped or abandon sinking ship
Set 6: Defense tower x 2+ Defense tower behind tank x 1- Allagan field target forces the 2x defense tower immediately after field expires
Set 7: Mines x 2, Dread x 1 (This set sometimes changes)
Set 8: Should be dead already else copy set 6

I wonder why one JP group got angry at me for not getting three stacks from Dread tower >.>. Don't they understand the vulnerability debuff the tower applies?

So it is right to just get two stacks? How do you stagger the stacks? At what time to you get your second stack? I was just wondering when I should run in to grab another stack from the tower.

Also, should DPS be doing mines? Majority of DPS on second coil turn three just ignore the mines and let people bounce into them >.>(my first experience in this coil, the second tank got one and I exploded another and got bounced into the third).

Try reading patch notes if you think you can still only take 2 stacks. Also, try reading tooltips on debuffs.

Healers should handle all mechanics if possible.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

My only concern is when to trigger the AOE towers during the third phase to avoid eating damage during AF.

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Back in the days when Eco was not a thing in SCoB and ppl weren't overgeared we were still able to adlo+stoneskin the person with the buff and he could eat the AOE and not wipe the party when blowing up. I would imagine that today it is even more possible.

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Originally Posted by xnonamex

Back in the days when Eco was not a thing in SCoB and ppl weren't overgeared we were still able to adlo+stoneskin the person with the buff and he could eat the AOE and not wipe the party when blowing up. I would imagine that today it is even more possible.

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This never stopped being a thing.