Best MMO

Hi.

Join me in pushing a Realm Reborn to the top position.

Until December 31st you can vote on your favourite MMO, MOBA, or Shooter. Which game was the Best MMO of 2014?

http://www.mmogames.com/topmmos/best-mmo-of-2014/

Ceta

They can buy my vote in the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

They can buy my vote in the cash shop.

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lol yes this +1

I would vote them if the game had the same philosophy that it had a year ago (when they were even gifting us things like the fat chocobo), instead of pulling that cash shop everywhere lately. That's the game that I supported and that had a lot of success, the one that did a good job with its rebirth and that treated players fairly and kept them by keeping them happy and having fun, instead of trying to take their money nickel and diming them shamelessly.

Yes, there's good things now too, but sadly there's things like the cash shop that turn me down.

The cash shop is optional, though. It is not required to play. It has options in it if you want that content.

They're not even PUSHING the cash shop. Like, at all. The Cash Shop is buried deep within the Mog Station and is not even tied into the game whatsoever. You have to physically close the game, go to the Mog Station, buy the items outright (which, again, are completely cosmetic and have zero gameplay advantages to them), then start the game back up again.

The sad part? Most of the other MMOs in this category have a P2W cash shop. GW2, WoW, Archeage, EVE, SWTOR, Neverwinter, RIFT... and those are only the MMOs I've played.

So don't even start with that "Oh this game has a cash shop, abandon ship!" jade, because most MMOs on the market today do it and they do it far worse than it's done here. Count your blessings. We could have had a cash shop like WoW where you can literally buy your way to level cap.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

They can buy my vote in the cash shop.

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People are still butthurt about that? Wow. I'd almost forgotten all about it. (that's a hint; it really is that forgettable an addition if you just get over it)

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

The cash shop is optional, though. It is not required to play. It has options in it if you want that content.

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Yeah, optional...for now. With Eternal Bond having cash shop tethered to it, you already know Gold Saucer will have cash shop components as well. So pretty much any new system being implemented will be supplemented by cash shop. It's the lazy development, focused on real money that's causing me to stop subbing once my time runs out next week.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

They're not even PUSHING the cash shop. Like, at all. The Cash Shop is buried deep within the Mog Station and is not even tied into the game whatsoever. You have to physically close the game, go to the Mog Station, buy the items outright (which, again, are completely cosmetic and have zero gameplay advantages to them), then start the game back up again.

The sad part? Most of the other MMOs in this category have a P2W cash shop. GW2, WoW, Archeage, EVE, SWTOR, Neverwinter, RIFT... and those are only the MMOs I've played.

So don't even start with that "Oh this game has a cash shop, abandon ship!" jade, because most MMOs on the market today do it and they do it far worse than it's done here. Count your blessings. We could have had a cash shop like WoW where you can literally buy your way to level cap.

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So because WoW and F2P MMOs do it, we have to be ok with that. I'm sorry, but I DON'T, and I'm going to keep saying it.

That's not the quality P2P MMO that I was playing before "special" people started asking to pay MORE for things that we were getting already in-game with our monthly sub. And now we have this crap, and each time they put something else in the game it ends up turning even worse.

If you keep saying that it's ok, that it's not the end of the world, that X and Y games do blahblahblah, instead of saying "enough, we're already paying a sub and it was working for months", they'll keep doing it. Eventually, and as I said in another thread, we might as well end up paying for each and every patch. After all, our sub only covers access to the servers, right?

You all can try to use as many excuses as you want, but the truth is that things are going down a path that some of us don't like at all, and that it only harms us, their customers. Do I have to remind anyone how back when the draught chocobo was introduced some people said that it was okay because we would be able to get another one in-game via eternal bond? What has happened now?

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

People are still butthurt about that? Wow. I'd almost forgotten all about it. (that's a hint; it really is that forgettable an addition if you just get over it)

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Some features of eternal bonding will be linked to the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Songi

Yeah, optional...for now. With Eternal Bond having cash shop tethered to it, you already know Gold Saucer will have cash shop components as well. So pretty much any new system being implemented will be supplemented by cash shop. It's the lazy development, focused on real money that's causing me to stop subbing once my time runs out next week.

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It's not lazy development. It's looking at demand and making supply to meet demand. If players didn't want a cash shop, they would not use the cash shop. Plain and simple. It's purely business.

A standard eternal bonding ceremony is free. There is no pay wall. To get some additional cosmetic perks, a fee is given to Mog Station. But like I said before, it's cosmetic. It's cosmetic. There is no gameplay advantage to getting the Gold package vs. the standard. There is no gameplay advantage to getting Sleipnir over Magitek Armor (and actually the Magitek Armor has more features to it anyhow), there is no gameplay advantage to getting the Wind-Up Yda and Papalymo over the Wind-Up Thancred and Minfilia. There is definitely no gameplay advantage to getting the Wailing Spirit over the other Halloween event gear.

So thank goodness your sub time runs out next week so you can go elsewhere and find an MMO that clearly suits your interests better.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Iut like I said before, it's cosmetic. It's cosmetic.

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That has been argued to death if you even care a bit to check out other threads, what you call cosmetic is the main aspect of the game most people enjoy, adding a price tag to this would affect way more people than (for example) adding a price tag to gear or coil.

I'm sorry you can't accept that other people enjoy different parts of the game that differ from what you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

It's not lazy development. It's looking at demand and making supply to meet demand. If players didn't want a cash shop, they would not use the cash shop. Plain and simple. It's purely business.

A standard eternal bonding ceremony is free. There is no pay wall. To get some additional cosmetic perks, a fee is given to Mog Station. But like I said before, it's cosmetic. It's cosmetic. There is no gameplay advantage to getting the Gold package vs. the standard. There is no gameplay advantage to getting Sleipnir over Magitek Armor (and actually the Magitek Armor has more features to it anyhow), there is no gameplay advantage to getting the Wind-Up Yda and Papalymo over the Wind-Up Thancred and Minfilia. There is definitely no gameplay advantage to getting the Wailing Spirit over the other Halloween event gear.

So thank goodness your sub time runs out next week so you can go elsewhere and find an MMO that clearly suits your interests better.

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Ok, so tell us where can we find a two seat mount in-game, please.

And could you care to explain, too, why cosmetic stuff doesn't matter? And I mean in a logical manner, not "in my opinion" or "that's not what I play the game for". It's not part of the game? Isn't it developed with the money provided by our subs? Are we freeloaders on a F2P MMO and we didn't notice until now?

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

The cash shop is optional, though. It is not required to play. It has options in it if you want that content.

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Good thing our votes and subs are optional too.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Ok, so tell us where can we find a two seat mount in-game, please.

And could you care to explain, too, why cosmetic stuff doesn't matter? And I mean in a logical manner, not "in my opinion" or "that's not what I play the game for". It's not part of the game? Isn't it developed with the money provided by our subs? Are we freeloaders on a F2P MMO and we didn't notice until now?

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So glad you asked about the two-person mounts! There are actually two methods to get it for free:

1.) Invite your friends to play. The longer they sub, the more benefits you get. One of those benefits is a two-person mount. I don't have friends I can invite to play this game with me, does that make this option fair?

2.) Get the standard eternal bonding package. Boom. two-person mount. For free. The gold package (the one that actually costs money) probably has a prettier two-person mount than the standard package, but that's an aesthetic choice.

The fact of the matter is that it does not affect gameplay. It's okay because it does not allow players to spend thousands of dollars to get endgame raid-level gear, personal housing, every Nexus and Supra in the game, and all of the achievements. That is why it's allowed. Because this is a game first and foremost and if the integrity of gameplay is compromised by paying money to bypass hard work, then the game itself collapses. Paying for extra aesthetic pieces doesn't disrupt the status quo.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

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Seriously, what is your problem with the cash shop? Have you even seen the items on there right now? Other than Fantasias and Sleipnir, there is literally nothing good on there. It's all old holiday gear and a handful of minions. So f**king what?

There is a local chinese resturant I go to every so often called Oriental Jade. They have some very decent chinese food and they also have a gift shop for chinese nick-knacks. How much of an asshole would I appear to be if I had a meal, walked into the gift shop, grabbed a nick-knack from the gift shop, and then got appalled if they decided to charge me for it? "I ate here! How dare you charge me extra money for this!? That's unacceptable!"

The day that this game's cash shop introduces gameplay-enhancing items is the day I take your side on the issue. But that is not today and I don't see it ever happening. Because Yoshi-P knows that, if he did, over half of his playerbase would abandon ship. That's why he made a point during Fanfest to say "The cash shop will only have cosmetic items in it." That was a reassurance with the knowledge that it wouldn't happen.

Now if you want to be jaded and continue to whine about the cash shop, that's your prerogative. Just know that the cash shop isn't leaving, so if it bothers you that much, your two options are to either leave yourself or to grin and bear it, because I'm sorry. You are in a very vocal, very small minority of players that are still around and there are many more people here who are more than fine with a cosmetic-only cash shop.

I would, but with content behind paywalls. I preffer to vote P2W F2P, at least they are honest.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

2.) Get the standard eternal bonding package.

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That one doesn't come with a mount.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

So glad you asked about the two-person mounts! There are actually two methods to get it for free.

1.) Invite your friends to play. The longer they sub, the more benefits you get. One of those benefits is a two-person mount. I don't have friends I can invite to play this game with me, does that make this option fair?

2.) Get the standard eternal bonding package. Boom. two-person mount. For free. The gold package (the one that actually costs money) probably has a prettier two-person mount than the standard package, but that's an aesthetic choice.

The fact of the matter is that it does not affect gameplay. It's okay because it does not allow players to spend thousands of dollars to get endgame raid-level gear, personal housing, every Nexus and Supra in the game, and all of the achievements. That is why it's allowed. Because this is a game first and foremost and if the integrity of gameplay is compromised by paying money to bypass hard work, then the game itself collapses. Paying for extra aesthetic pieces doesn't disrupt the status quo.

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When I said "in-game" I meant by playing the game. It was said back when the draught chocobo was introduced that it was okay because we could earn another one via eternal bonding. Tell me, really, how we can get said chocobo. I'm still waiting.

It was you the one that brought up that the magitek armor has more features than then Slepinir mount as a reason as of why it's more than okay to have said mount after a pay wall, because we had better ones in-game. But it seems that it doesn't work for the two seat chocobo and so you dismiss it as "not affecting gameplay".

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Seriously, what is your problem with the cash shop? Have you even seen the items on there right now? Other than Fantasias and Sleipnir, there is literally nothing good on there. It's all old holiday gear and a handful of minions. So f**king what?

There is a local chinese resturant I go to every so often called Oriental Jade. They have some very decent chinese food and they also have a gift shop for chinese nick-knacks. How much of an asshole would I appear to be if I had a meal, walked into the gift shop, grabbed a nick-knack from the gift shop, and then got appalled if they decided to charge me for it? "I ate here! How dare you charge me extra money for this!? That's unacceptable!"

The day that this game's cash shop introduces gameplay-enhancing items is the day I take your side on the issue. But that is not today and I don't see it ever happening. Because Yoshi-P knows that, if he did, over half of his playerbase would abandon ship. That's why he made a point during Fanfest to say "The cash shop will only have cosmetic items in it." That was a reassurance with the knowledge that it wouldn't happen.

Now if you want to be jaded and continue to whine about the cash shop, that's your prerogative. Just know that the cash shop isn't leaving, so if it bothers you that much, your two options are to either leave yourself or to grin and bear it, because I'm sorry. You are in a very vocal, very small minority of players that are still around and there are many more people here who are more than fine with a cosmetic-only cash shop.

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My problem with the cash shop is that it's an obvious double-dipping feature. Past year's stuff that we could still get in-game during event? Nay, not anymore, now you have to open your wallet. Eternal bond? Okay, we got this peasant version for you unless you pay us the super awesome price of only 39.99€ (promotion!) for the normal one that we've showing you in the previews until now.

If you see that as whinning, I don't know what to tell you. Congrats? I don't know. But I know for sure that if you go to that chinese restaurant you would be mad if your ordered X meal as shown in the menu and then it lacked half of the stuff that was shown there, or if you went the next day and they tried to charge you extra for the bread that you got the day before under the same price that you're paying today for the dish that you've ordered. I know I would, and I wouldn't come back to that restaurant. Ever.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

If players didn't want a cash shop, they would not use the cash shop.

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This is a case of taking the demand people had for content and placing it in a cash shop to take advantage of that demand. Pure and simple, and what most business do to generate income in a situation such as this. This "demand" as you put it was for the items themselves not the "cash shop".

If you honestly think a majority of players in this game believe that they should have to pay for something on top of their monthly fee to access content in the first place, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

As for the rest of what you had to say regarding cosmetics and such, I completely agree.

Lastly on this "So thank goodness your sub time runs out next week so you can go elsewhere and find an MMO that clearly suits your interests better" comment. They have as much right to express themselves as you, whether you agree with it or not. To borrow your childish retort, If you don't like it go find a forum that clearly suits your interests better.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

(when they were even gifting us things like the fat chocobo)

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But Fat Chocobo was from the Collector's Edition, which is gated behind RL cash just like the cash shop. >.>

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

But Fat Chocobo was from the Collector's Edition, which is gated behind RL cash just like the cash shop. >.>

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i don't think you get it.
if i sell you ABCD and you receive ABCD, you are happy, right?
if i sell you ABCD and you receive AD, you would be mad and want your money back, right?

they say: if you buy collectors edition, you get this, this and that.
they say: if you pay your monthly sub you will get this, this and that in the future.....*wait until it's 2 weeks before the patch*.... if you pay some more.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

We could have had a cash shop like WoW where you can literally buy your way to level cap.

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No you can't.

oh no not this discussion again.. -_-

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

But Fat Chocobo was from the Collector's Edition, which is gated behind RL cash just like the cash shop. >.>

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The fat chocobo and the wind-up moogle were introduced way after the game's release (as of 2.0 version). It wasn't included or announced in the original CEs, yet SE gave them to all existing CE accounts. That made a lot of people (customers) happy and thankful, and more willing to keep supporting such an amazing company and dev team.

However, if it was today, I'm sure that they would had made us buy them from the Mog Station (see event items). That change is not cool.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

However, if it was today, I'm sure that they would had made us buy them from the Mog Station (see event items). That change is not cool.

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There's absolutely no way to either prove or disprove this. Nobody can be "sure" of it either way. *shrugs* In any case, it still wasn't "given away". You have to have purchased the Collector's Edition to receive these mounts. People that purchased the CE after the Fat Chocobo release received both the Coeurl and the Fat Chocobo.

I personally don't see the big deal about the whole thing, honestly. They haven't even announced the cost or anything yet and people are being terribly alarmist about it, throwing around prices in the $50-70 range. I've even seen shouts ingame complaining that it'll be even more than that. I mean, the refer a friend two-rider chocobo was basically gated behind RL money as well. The only difference is that you didn't have to spend it yourself; you had to get someone else to buy the game and pay for a subscription in order to get all the items.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I mean, the refer a friend two-rider chocobo was basically gated behind RL money as well. The only difference is that you didn't have to spend it yourself; you had to get someone else to buy the game and pay for a subscription in order to get all the items.

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Not really. That was a bonus. Your friend would have had to buy the game and pay the sub anyway if they wanted to play. The only problem with it was that it didn't count people who had already gotten friends to play the game (which I had already done, so I was out of luck).

So, no, that was quite different.

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

No you can't.

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Yes.. you can. lvl90 60 bucks. Or are you going to sit and try to banter over the last 10 levels?

No matter how upset people currently are with the recent developments, this game is still by far the best MMO I've played. They get my vote this year, and I hope they'll get my vote next year as well.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Not really. That was a bonus. Your friend would have had to buy the game and pay the sub anyway if they wanted to play. The only problem with it was that it didn't count people who had already gotten friends to play the game (which I had already done, so I was out of luck).

So, no, that was quite different.

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Honestly, I know people that got friends/family to play the game just so they could get the mount so YMMV.

There's more than a few that actually bought the game and the subscription for them just to get it.

And yeah, I'd already gotten all my friends that might want to play to do so lol.

Having played a lot of MMOs, and more than half the games on that list, I can say all modern MMOs are bad and ARR is simply below average in a lot of parts and slightly above average in some aspects. It does a couple of things better than most MMOs but other games do a much better job, especially on the content, latency and responsiveness side. Honestly I wouldn't vote for any game on that list, though WoW would get a minor honorary vote simply for having the best latency and responsiveness on the themepark MMO market.

I won't because it isn't.. yet, hopefully..

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Originally Posted by Roris

Having played a lot of MMOs, and more than half the games on that list, I can say all modern MMOs are bad and ARR is simply below average in a lot of parts and slightly above average in some aspects. It does a couple of things better than most MMOs but other games do a much better job, especially on the content, latency and responsiveness side. Honestly I wouldn't vote for any game on that list, though WoW would get a minor honorary vote simply for having the best latency and responsiveness on the themepark MMO market.

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The way WoW runs is best i have also experienced so totally agree with bolded part.

Kinda suprised that GW2 is currently leading, maybe they fixed some culling issues so i might actually check it out someday again. Its pvp focused game so that might got something to do with votes, and pvp in there is imo pretty damn fun.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

The way WoW runs is best i have also experienced so totally agree with bolded part.

Kinda suprised that GW2 is currently leading, maybe they fixed some culling issues so i might actually check it out someday again. Its pvp focused game so that might got something to do with votes, and pvp in there is imo pretty damn fun.

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the World vs World in GW2 was freaking amazing, i loved that! wish they would have something similar in this game as well :/

Please go play GW2 for 3-6 months and then come back here an tell me a shop that is selling halloween outfits and pets is too much.

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Originally Posted by Veji

Please go play GW2 for 3-6 months and then come back here an tell me a shop that is selling halloween outfits and pets is too much.

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The difference is, we're already paying a subscription fee here.

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Originally Posted by Gaelu

the World vs World in GW2 was freaking amazing, i loved that! wish they would have something similar in this game as well :/

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I'm not even into pvp and world vs world was fun when I did it lol

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

The difference is, we're already paying a subscription fee here.

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And you get to play the game, do you not?

Sub fee does not have to equate to "complete access to every single thing made by the developers". It means "you can now access the game". You pay to allow connection to the server. I'm pretty sure it says that much in the User Agreement you signed up to before you even started.

It's like having a season ticket to a game of some kind. It doesn't give you full access to all the food and drink, that usually comes separately at a price. The same is here with the cash shop for the additional extras. The fact that you don't have to pay for the patches between expansions is already more generosity than anyone should expect given the terms of service that you agree with at the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Themis

And you get to play the game, do you not?

Sub fee does not have to equate to "complete access to every single thing made by the developers". It means "you can now access the game". You pay to allow connection to the server. I'm pretty sure it says that much in the User Agreement you signed up to before you even started.

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People do not pay based on the terms of what paying gives you. They pay based on the value they see in the service. The value in a subscription game is traditionally that you get access to the same content as everyone else, as you are all paying customers. This is a differentiation to the free to play model, which gives a superior service to those willing to pay, in contrast to those who do not wish to pay, or pay less.

Until the cash shop was added, that value was mostly there in this game.

That value is no longer there. Are you really surprised that people are upset about that?

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

People are still butthurt about that? Wow. I'd almost forgotten all about it. (that's a hint; it really is that forgettable an addition if you just get over it)

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This is why this industry is going to shit. Literally no matter what a dev/publisher do, some suck up will be fine with it and go out of its way to defend it.

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Originally Posted by Themis

And you get to play the game, do you not?

Sub fee does not have to equate to "complete access to every single thing made by the developers". It means "you can now access the game". You pay to allow connection to the server.

It's like having a season ticket to a game of some kind. It doesn't give you full access to all the food and drink, that usually comes separately at a price.

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Just going to assume you've obviously never played a subscription based mmo before based on your comment >_> The subscription you pay monthly has always allowed you access to everything in game, those "food and drink" you brought up are the expansions, otherwise you get the full experience for your 12.95 a month. Based on what you're saying, you seem to be the type who'd buy a game for 60.00 to only be allowed to access the start menu and tutorial, then whip out your wallet and pay for more levels. That's not how subscription based mmos work, you must be confused with F2P where you actually have to pay to get "food and drink"

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

The subscription you pay monthly has always allowed you access to everything in game, those "food and drink" you brought up are the expansions, otherwise you get the full experience for your 12.95 a month. Based on what you're saying, you seem to be the type who'd buy a game for 60.00 to only be allowed to access the start menu and tutorial, then whip out your wallet and pay for more levels. That's not how subscription based mmos work, you must be confused with F2P where you actually have to pay to get "food and drink"

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You're right. Sadly, when you have those who pay the sub and then say "I'll also pay more" it became a losing battle. In TOR I was in a guild with at least three people who were putting 100 dollars once a week to every two weeks into the cash shop and paying their sub.

Of course, tired of hearing people complain about sub costs when the sub cost is rather cheap.