MONK Goad and Fracture

so fellow monks i would like to hear your thoughts on Fracture.... yes i know Fracture now that we see more and more ninjas i would like to hear your opinion on the use of fracture in the high uptime fights.
i mysellf was often against fracture because of its High tp cost compared to relativly low dmg tradoff and as such after the initial weeks of ffxiv i never touched it again, but now that our tp starvation can be prevented or at least delayed whith a fellow ninja what are your thoughts on putting it back in our rotations?

People thinking fracture is not so great:4
people thinking fracture is fine :2

Fracture is such an infinitesimal dps boost, for a huge tp cost. The only use of fracture is for WAR due to the trait ; untraited it is worthless.

As a ninja, if i see a mnk use fracture, i give him a warning. If i see him use it again, he won't get another goad for me. I would rather give it to the freacking whm than to see a mnk throw his tp away like this. Just too painful to watch.

On a more serious note: my brd can also use a goad here and there, and put the extra tp to better use than a mnk using fracture. Please just don't use that crappy skill.

@casper i see we have the same opinion regarding fracture i myself also consider it much to weak for to high of a costs and didnt use it on a monk sins i started doing coil... in 2.0... and i wouldnt even bring it up if not Goad from ninjas, i have yet to do some more testing how heavy it would be on my tp and what if any dps boost it would provide.
The main reason for this thread was to see if some monks have done some testing on dummy or any high uptime fight with goad and adding fracture in there roation, but untill i see proof be it from myown or someone elses testing saying fracture increases dps by !@#$@# and you are still able to sustain your dmg for XXX then i wont even bother putting it inot my cross class skills.
THX for your opinion xD

Monk was the first class that I took to 50, I'm pretty good with it. That being said, Fracture is never even on my cross class list of abilities. The only DoTs I use are the monk's innate ones (Demolish and Touch of Death for those who don't know). Waste of TP. I generally use a DK combo w/ twin snakes first ending with Demolish from the rear, the I ToD, then move to a Bootshine combo. Do that twice then repeat; but this time with snap punch on the DK combo. Refresh DoT's as necessary. Most of the time though on trash, I won't even waste the TP using DoT's at all. If everyone is doing AoE, I follow suit and use Rock Smash constantly at the end of my combos. Fracture isn't worth it. I have Invigorate, Blood for Blood, and Bloodbath. That's it.

Use with Blood for Blood, otherwise it's barely worth the cross class space

There's only one use for fracture: Filler

In some fights you are forced out of the desired position for a short moment. In this case, you could consider using Fracture over another skill that would require a certain angle to minimize DPS loss. Of course: If Touch of Death is about to run out or already ran out, you should use Touch of Death over Fracture for such scenario. It's not something you should spam, however. It has terrible TP/potency ratio. Only a handful of encounters has situations where Fracture could be useful - With T9 being the prime example.

Conclusion: Fracture should only be used as a filler and not be part of your regular rotation. So put it in the "meh" category

Hmm i think quite a few of you are wrong on this i use fracture in my full rotation with my current set up http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/6777347/ in fights like say t8 this week i was holding 510-520 dps with just one ninja and with a 2nd monk dragon kicking for me but no ninja 540+ with only Glanzfausts.... yeah yeah 10% echo as well as for tp i can go for about 3mins 45 or so timing my invigorates properly an then ill need a goad to reach my next invigorate
and on the dummy i can do 470+ crits depending with no party buff or str pots or food if i dont use fracture i lose about 10-15 dps with my current rotation.

Thats the great thing about Ninja now its a playable class we can abuse our tp alot more than before because of goad that goes same now for having more skill speed take me atm during my rotation i will have 2 times in 3+min parse where demolish is down for about 1.5 sec but. once i get my hands on the HA weapon (all that 46 ss yummy) i should be able to push that closer so its down even less thus giving me more dps profit right?

(Perfect Balance) - Demolish - Snap Punch (X Str pot) Snap Punch (Blood for blood) Twin snakes (Internal release) Dragon kick (Perfect Balance ends) (howling fist) Touch of death (Steel peak) Boot shine - True strike - Demolish - Dragon kick - Twin snakes - Fracture - Snap Punch
Now we enter the full rotation phase
Boot Shine - True strike - Snap punch
Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Demolish (at this point fracture and touch death should both have 3-4 secs on them each *skill speed depending* Touch of death then Boot Shine - true strike - Snap Punch
Dragon kick - Twin Snakes - (steel peak) should be up i think* - Snap Punch
Boot Shine - True Strike - Demolish - Fracture.

Now let me explain why i use fracture like i do, So you want to not use both fracture and touch of death in the same two full 1 - 2 -3 combo so what i do is use fracture at the start after twin snakes then after that i use fracture after every demolish (execpt when touch is needing to be refreshed that takes priority) then you must wait till the next demolish goes up to reapply Fracture.
So to round it up use demolish after every two 1-2-3 rotations.
Dont use fracture and touch of death in the same two 1-2-3 rotations.

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Originally Posted by Casper

Fracture is such an infinitesimal dps boost, for a huge tp cost.
As a ninja, if i see a mnk use fracture, i give him a warning. If i see him use it again, he won't get another goad for me. I would rather give it to the freacking whm than to see a mnk throw his tp away like this. Just too painful to watch.
On a more serious note: my brd can also use a goad here and there, and put the extra tp to better use than a mnk using fracture. Please just don't use that crappy skill.

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Fracture is NOT a crappy skill. You can use it when boss jumps, and maybe not a fight like t8 but for t9 it is a decent DPS boost. I use it there just before dragon kick falls off and when I don't have to reapply any other DoTs. It's not major but if you can fit in another attack then there is zero reason not to, and it IS higher potency than most other monk abilities. That said, in a fight like t9 I never really NEED TP except maybe last phase but...don't underestimate fracture.

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

Stuff

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Look, if you have infinite TP like in t9 go for it, obviously. It IS a boost. But in FCOB there are little to no downtime. Ressource management is an issue and need to be optimized. I usually use my first and third goad on my mnk, and the second one on my brd. Yeah if i gave the second one to my mnk maybe he could put fracture in there. I would rather give some goad to my brd instead though, and have him go crazy multidoting on adds, because it makes for a much larger difference in dps.

Edit: someone mentionned previously a 10-15 dps increase using fracture on a dummy. Is this number realistic ? Sure it is !

However a mnk would parse around 500 dps on a dummy. You are talking about 2.5% damage increase. Now please do the math for the increase in tp used per minute, try to factor in invigorate and stuff, and see how much goad you need before or after. Fracture will kill you tp-wise, and while there IS a dps gain, it is paid way too heavily when there is any kind of tp management needed.

Edit 2: actually, pretty easy to see that 3 fractures a minute is going to cost you about 50 tp per minute. Over 10 minutes of fight that's 500 additional TP needed. I don't think any mnk can honestly say then end up a FCOB fight with over 500 tp without being babysitted like hell. Ergo, you will need additional ressources for it, and as said before, those ressources are scarce.

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Originally Posted by Casper

Fracture is such an infinitesimal dps boost, for a huge tp cost. The only use of fracture is for WAR due to the trait ; untraited it is worthless.

As a ninja, if i see a mnk use fracture, i give him a warning. If i see him use it again, he won't get another goad for me. I would rather give it to the freacking whm than to see a mnk throw his tp away like this. Just too painful to watch.

On a more serious note: my brd can also use a goad here and there, and put the extra tp to better use than a mnk using fracture. Please just don't use that crappy skill.

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Fracture is 6% dps increase aka an extra fist of fire mind u! And i'm sure u understand the concept of "SQUEEZING EVERY AVAILABLE DPS" to clear t13?

Little to no downtime in FCOB and hence fracture is useless?
1. t10 :Lets see, u can fracture adds and ST another tank's adds, aiding ur ranged dps, fracture before stacking for wild charge, or tether
2. t11 : fracture before run from party if got forked lightning, fracture before spreading from seeds of the river from tethered peeps, fracture on boss if u got tat nasty non tank tethers as u can't do rear rotation.
3. t12 : fracture before u run to bluefire designated spot, fracture bennus including jumbo bennus, fracture boss before u move to throw away little birdie divebombs from the party
4. t13 : fracture boss before u run for megaflare, earthshaker and etc,

However OP, adding 100% fracture uptime into rotation only worthed it if u have near BiS / BiS gears. Not even goad will save ur TP, OP, if ur still progressing and trying using fracture 100% uptime.

Fracture is nowhere near a 6% dps increase, if you factor in off GCD abilities, dots, etc. I want to see parses on dummy with and without it that show anything near that. As said, someone reported 10-15 dps increase, which is 2.5% of a mnk's dps. 6 % increase would be 30 dps from 500. Are you seriously saying using fracture can improve your dps by 30 ? I kinda doubt that.

As for downtimes: on tether you don't have to stop hitting, only on wild charges. Once again, fracturing adds wil wreck your tp, i would much rather have my brd use his dots on all adds, will be much more effective.

On t11, we do manage to have our mnk do rear rotation during non tank tethers, and stay on boss full time for river, and for forked lightning its a 2 sec downtime. On t12, bluefire can be handled by a bard so that mnk get 100% uptime, fracturing adds once again destroy your tp for no big increase.

Look if you have a ninja goading you 100% of the time good for you. In my experience, giving some love to the brd provide much greater benefits than only focusing on the mnk, and fracture seems like a bad reason to keep goad for the mnk only.

Inb4 people forget:
DoTs don't benefit from Dragon Kick, so actual potency is less than you'd think.

Proper use of fracture will give you something like a 0.6% dps increase - you can't use it in the same rotation as ToD or you will get downtime on DK/Twin Snakes and it result's in a dps loss. You can't use it when you don't have 100% uptime on the boss or it will result in downtime in DK/Twin, and improper use can increase the risk of losing GL3 during forced downtime (earthshaker tethers, invulrenability phases)

It is insanely TP ineffecient - Goad would be better shared around to prevent any paeon usage would be a much larger dps boost (rotate goad on monk/bard/tanks who are also at risk of running out of tp).

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Originally Posted by enil

It is insanely TP ineffecient - Goad would be better shared around to prevent any paeon usage would be a much larger dps boost (rotate goad on monk/bard/tanks who are also at risk of running out of tp).

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Also to point out, fracture is something like a 2.75potency/tp spent where as almost every monk ability even if not hit from the correct positional with the exception of dragon kick, bootshine, and twin snakes has a potency per tp spent of 2.8+.

Hell hitting demolish from the side still has like 3.6 if i remember correctly. Fracture is a dps gain in so few specific situations that it's not worth it at all.

Only reason I use Fracture at all is to make the rotation more interesting.. it is sad the ability is so TP inefficient.

Would rather we had no access to Fracture at all, and instead another baseline dot. For example one in raptor form, so we could cycle between a raptor form dot and true strike inbetween twin snake cycles.

I personally use it. It helps with damage enough to where it can be used, and there's no drop in DPS with it since it can easily fit into a rotation. I also don't usually run out of TP due to the downtimes (mechanics and dodging) during primals and bosses, though there are a few exceptions to this...namely T8. The cycle of moves I do goes like this:

Bootshine -> True Strike -> Demolish -> Touch of Death -> Fracture -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Snap Punch -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Demolish -> Fracture -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Snap Punch

That's a normal cycle for me, and when I'm getting around to Demolish again, it's just coming off. Considering it's a DPS boost, there's no DPS drop for using it, and TP is easily restored in most fights (again, T8 is an exception), why not?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I personally use it. It helps with damage enough to where it can be used, and there's no drop in DPS with it since it can easily fit into a rotation. I also don't usually run out of TP due to the downtimes (mechanics and dodging) during primals and bosses, though there are a few exceptions to this...namely T8. The cycle of moves I do goes like this:

Bootshine -> True Strike -> Demolish -> Touch of Death -> Fracture -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Snap Punch -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Demolish -> Fracture -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Snap Punch

That's a normal cycle for me, and when I'm getting around to Demolish again, it's just coming off. Considering it's a DPS boost, there's no DPS drop for using it, and TP is easily restored in most fights (again, T8 is an exception), why not?

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Because in most situations where you're just blindly assuming it's a DPS boost...it's not.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Because in most situations where you're just blindly assuming it's a DPS boost...it's not.

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Do we have numbers on how it looks with and without Fracture in the combo, from a parser? That'd be the best way to look at it, because nobody has given exact numbers yet.