<Rant> Noob players

Hi,

I just want your sincere opinions about what happened to me:

I am in charge of recruiting players for my guild and its very difficult.
So 2 new players joined and they kept asking for help, to help them kill monsters, do dungeons, etc. Then I said to them that they shouldnt need any help to play until endgame, thats just how the game is designed, unlike other mmo that you may need some help leveling.
They called me a dick and said I was rude.

Why cant they consider we dont buy a game to keep helping others and be overly altrusitic?

What do you think about it?
Thanks in advance.

Well with the current NIN rush (starting to die down a little) I can totally understand their viewpoint of needing help with dungeons (especially if they don't have/know a tank for ques) or if they ARE a NIN themselves and trying to catch up.

Now I do not know the context of how this all went down for your specific situation, but I would feel like if no one wanted to help then why invite us...

That said, I have had new players be overly excessive in the amount of help they want. (basically wanting everyone to focus on their needs instead of helping out equally within the FC/LS). If that was the case I say your in the clear.

I do NOT however condone their actions regardless if you were being rude or not. They should have the maturity to speak with a /message and voice their concerns rationally

Levis, Thanks for the reply!

Yes they gave me the impression that we were at their service, like as if FC are something to be exploited.
I didnt know people could be that sassy... that surprises me.
I will talk with the company officers and try to make a policy about those kind of people.

No Problem! Glad I could help. Ya they are rare, but we still tend to find them lol.

Well you must realize now because of Rogue/Ninja dps queue times are crazy long so perhaps they were looking for a tank or something?
Really not sure what your FC is about but usually players join as they want help, socialize and have fun. Myself this was more or less my first MMO
so part of the reason why we as a FC help members of all levels to level up and such.
There was no need for them to call you that but i can strongly see their viewpoint as probably the main reason to join a FC was for help.
And while most people use the term it is actually offending to use "Noob"

I would have to agree with Levis completely on this.
The only thing I could think to include is that it might be helpful to start an FC linkshell dedicated to helping new people learn the ropes. That way they wont spam the FC chat with questions.

The only reason I can think that they would think you were being a jerk is that this might be their first MMO and you telling them they shouldn't need help could be taken as an insult. With it being released on consoles for a lot of people this is their first MMO myself included. So a lot of the "simple" things we all know now from experience might not be so simple for someone who has never played this type of game before.
For example I didn't know anything about enmity when I started, I thought the classes were just if you wanted to heal or attack with magic or weapons. Could you imagine if I ended up rolling a tank on accident. That would have been terrible.

With that being said their are people who think you are just there to help them out. I've seen some in my FC when I started out that wanted you to stop what you were doing and help them now. They couldn't even wait 5 minutes for you to get done. Needless to say they ended up leaving because they "never" got any help LOL.

You want your folks to learn bad habits that you'll complain about when they get to end-game? Good way to do it. Then when the bard is kiting everything in a circle and the white mage is casting Holy from across the room with nothing nearby, you can blame yourselves and your lack of training. Don't sit on some high horse and assume that everyone is going to play your way when you show them nothing. Training your team begins from the start. Sure, you might not need to hold their hands when they're killing lady bugs in La Noscea, but you can teach them good practices when running dungeons, hests and trials. We take our new folks who want to tank and run a pre made party so that we can bring 2 tanks, a scholar and a DPS (which is essentially a five person team) in a lot of low level dungeons so they can practice tanking. Can't do that in DF. This way, we can have them observe then try while we run the dungeon. Here are bad habits. See? The party gets hurt badly or wipes as a result. Here's the right way.

As Kaeda_Valentyne points out, this is a first MMO for a lot of people. What's Aggro? Why do I need to know so many moves? Which actions are right in which occasions? What is the difference between Stun and Silence? Where do I put my attribute points? Should I meld low level clothing? What is meld? What's a crafter? Why would I want to do Botany? I was a noob to MMO when I started this too. I was an awful archer, but I thought I was doing things right. People like you just yelled, "Learn your job." And instead, I didn't get better. this isn't anything like the FPS's I'd played before, but that's how I played it. I didn't know there was a Bard job until I was about level 40!

People in our FC learn because we teach. My advice is to do them a favor and kick them from your elitist team. They'll fall into a group that has a more synergistic approach eventually.

While I'm definitely not saying you should devote all of your game time to these new people, the fact that you refused to help them with anything speaks a lot about you.

If I joined an FC and literally no one would ever help me, I would be outta there. That is the whole point of being in an FC in the first place.

OP - from my perspective, out of context, your response sounds pretty rude. I would probably drop your FC if I was shot down every time I asked for help.

For a lot of people playing an MMO is about making friends, and doing stuff together with them. I like doing stuff with my LS mates, even if it isn't necessary, just because I enjoy their company and I enjoy building relationships with them. I prefer to play with others because that is the best part of an MMO to me.

I had made many friends in 1.0 because in a lot of ways there were benefits to grouping up and even just grinding together at lower levels. It created bonds that carried over into 2.0 and even into real life in some cases!

I don't think it's fair to treat your lowbie LS mates as if they are being lazy "noobs", or expecting you to do work for them just because they want to group up with you or others in your LS/FC. Maybe they just prefer to play with people that they could have ongoing friendships/relationships with?

There's a difference between "noob" and "newb".

Recruiting for an FC is gonna be one of the hardest things you do in a game, because some players just use the help they get in order to leave and join an endgame FC. Their attitude and language can give them away, but you may still be exploited by polite players. See if they are also willing to help others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoF2P

There's a difference between "noob" and "newb".

Recruiting for an FC is gonna be one of the hardest things you do in a game, because some players just use the help they get in order to leave and join an endgame FC...

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Thanks for the reply!

That was my point, I've already helped a lot of ppl in different mmos and what happens the most is one of 2... they leave the game, or just leave the guild and go look for another one.
I didnt need any help to reach lvl 50 in ffxiv because the game is just so easy and resourceful and very intuitive... maybe other mmo, ppl actually really need help to progress, but this is not the case.

Anyway, I wont be people's slaves, those 2 people that shouted on me were the only ones that were annoying, and thankfully most ppl in the fc now are all good!

Thanks everyone for your honest opinions... I am just too tired of giving and get nothing back.

This is my first MMO ever which started on the PS3 and I had no idea at first how important a stink'n keyboard would be as I always played consoles. Now as the leader of my FC and over a year of FFXIV under my belt, I have a good appreciation of what newb's like me encounter when starting out.

I personally speak with each recruit, let them review who we are on our website/FB page and linkshell them on a trial basis if they are game. From there I'll keep track with my officers to Ninja up on them at random times with some new crafted gear, weapon or food and just kick it. We also do weekly and bi weekly contests to intro crafting and gathering and set times aside for specific progression with relic or story quests.

While there certainly are folks that over and over ask for help on everything, I'll usually give them subreddit guides for what to do starting out and what to do\unlock after 50 and make this available in multiple spots.

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Originally Posted by tiedmud

Then I said to them that they shouldnt need any help to play until endgame, thats just how the game is designed

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That's not true at all. The first group content begins at level 10 and is required at level 15. This is not a solo-able game. It's designed to be advanced from nearly the beginning with groups of other players. Now, it's true that the game provides some grouping tools so that players who don't have an active FC can still make it through eventually, but for those who are in an FC, that's expected to be a primary place to draw groups from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiedmud

Why cant they consider we dont buy a game to keep helping others

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Then why are you recruiting them into your FC? Generally, FCs who recruit new players are the ones filled with people who do in fact play for the sake of helping other players through content. It sounds like you're the one who pulled a bait-and-switch on them, offering them the support of an FC and then refusing to provide it. If you only want endgame players in your FC, then you should only be accepting endgame players into your FC. If you bring in low-level players, then of course you're expected to do low-level content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiedmud

So 2 new players joined and they kept asking for help, to help them kill monsters, do dungeons, etc. Then I said to them that they shouldnt need any help to play until endgame, thats just how the game is designed, unlike other mmo that you may need some help leveling.
They called me a dick and said I was rude.

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I think I can kind of understand where you're coming from. I've run into this type of attitude even back in XI, which was a much more group-oriented game, design-wise, I remember leveling WHM as my first job which was probably the most socially dependent job in FFXI, and being in a static with some dps, drg or something that kept complaining about not getting help viewing cutscenes and stuff like that, things that I knew even I could do on my own time. Haven't come across anyone quite that bad in this game yet (thank goodness :P ) but I think I would do like someone else suggested, just link them to resources where they could research how to get things done for themselves. I think some just don't realize how much they can accomplish on their own if they put some effort into it and just need to be gently pushed a little in the right direction, maybe. Then again, there'll always be those that want someone there to hold their hand and walk them through everything. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...lies/frown.png

Depends on how you choose to handle the situation. But I'd keep in mind that if they're new players, there's probably still a whole lot that they don't know or don't realize about this game, so they may just not think they can do things, because they don't know how. Maybe give them a little bit of explanation to whatever they're asking for, rather than a quick, "it's easy, go do it yourself" type statement, and see if that works with them. Also there were a few things that I asked for help with while leveling (primal fights, certain dungeons and whatnot) that I knew I could technically do by myself through DF, but going in that first time with friends allowed me to familiarize myself with the content through first hand experience, without judgement, and even get advice and was more comfortable than possibly being chewed out by some outrageously over-geared guy for making noob mistakes. xD If it's just something like that, I won't blame them for wanting a little friendly company during a run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiedmud

Hi,

I just want your sincere opinions about what happened to me:

I am in charge of recruiting players for my guild and its very difficult.
So 2 new players joined and they kept asking for help, to help them kill monsters, do dungeons, etc. Then I said to them that they shouldnt need any help to play until endgame, thats just how the game is designed, unlike other mmo that you may need some help leveling.
They called me a dick and said I was rude.

Why cant they consider we dont buy a game to keep helping others and be overly altrusitic?

What do you think about it?
Thanks in advance.

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I'd have kicked them. If I can tank low level dungeons, fates and so on as a white mage an actual tank has absolutely no excuse for not being able to and I don't want to hear him asking for help. It's almost impossible to fail at low level content in this game. I love to help people, when it's with something reasonable, but I have a policy of not hanging out with people with a 2 digit IQ.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiedmud

maybe other mmo, ppl actually really need help to progress, but this is not the case.

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There's content like that in some games. Asheron's Call 2 for example. I was constantly helping newbies with that game. There was a bunch of stuff that was nearly impossible to do without help from a high level. Endgame was actually easier than leveling in that game. Like for example there was this one low level vault that almost nobody could do without help. I was a defender, so I had a long duration group HoT and a group armor buff. I couldn't enter since I had already done it, but if someone needed help I'd come give the group my armor buff and HoT, which since I was max level made them pretty much invincible for long enough to finish the fault if they went a decent speed. At low levels having my HoT was like having an army of white mages spam benediction on you in FFXIV. :D In FFXIV it's a totally different story. In this game you can pretty much just smash your face against the keyboard and still fly through content easily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Then why are you recruiting them into your FC? Generally, FCs who recruit new players are the ones filled with people who do in fact play for the sake of helping other players through content. It sounds like you're the one who pulled a bait-and-switch on them, offering them the support of an FC and then refusing to provide it. If you only want endgame players in your FC, then you should only be accepting endgame players into your FC. If you bring in low-level players, then of course you're expected to do low-level content.

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There's a big difference between asking for a group with the other low levels and asking a high level who will see no reward from it to hold your hand through content I've literally beaten with my feet while I ate dinner. If his FC recruits low levels then there should be other low levels around for them to do stuff with. I asked for a tank or healer to queue with me to get the last few levels on my arcanist for my cross class skills since DPS queues take forever, but dungeons are the fastest way to level. It turned out to be a high level who joined me and I felt so guilty I offered to pay him for his time. I'm sure haukke manor is the last thing he wanted to be doing.

The purpose of an FC that recruits newer players is to help and guide those new players. If they ask for help, give it, or say how they can go about finding it. If something is "so easy" then simply say that it may be best to experience content the first time around in a PUG so they can see what to expect. Or explain that you're so overgeared it'd trivialize the content.

At the end of the day though, if you didn't want to help new players; then don't recruit them.

I'll also ask you to keep in mind just because something is mindnumbingly easy to you, with your large amount of experience in past MMO games; does not mean it'll be easy or so self-apparent to everyone else.

You, frankly, were rude and toxic.