Crafting Endgame Balance Idea

I have been a very dedicated crafter. I have sunk hundreds of hours into leveling up all my classes and making money to afford to gear up my crafting. At this point, I am 3-star on three classes and 2-star on the others. However, I am not planning on doing 4-star in the near future. My problem is not the difficulty of crafting (I got my LTW book in about 20 minutes with no new equipment or surpas). The issue is the scarcity of resources and the lack of reward in the end.

At this point, with the patch being a couple weeks old, Ehcatl Sealants run 450k and mastercraft demimaterias run 1 million on my server. After spending a fortune on all the crafting equipment, I then have to spend a fortune on materials. I haven't checked these as recently, but Allagan silks were running 300k last time I looked, and it takes several of those plus other materials to make each piece of i110. At the end of the day, we are talking tens of millions of gil to get to 4-star. I understand prices will go down over time, but only by so much before new ways to get materials are introduced in the future.

I don't have that kind of gil. I could eventually make enough money, but it seems a waste to use it on i110. You see, in the time I spent developing my crafting and making i90, everyone else geared up to i110 by doing hunts and other content. By the time I can get to i110 on crafting, everyone else will be i120-130 from Poetics. Why should I work so hard and spend so much gil just to get to the level everyone was at pre-patch and be behind where they are now?


I have an idea for how crafting can be more viable for endgame content. I understand SE does not want people to be able to buy their way to the top. I appreciate that, but I also understand there is a difference between buying your way to the top and crafting your way to the top.

My idea is to create "custom" or "tailored" versions of the new equipment at a higher ilvl (like i120) and make them untradeable. It would work very similarly to the augmented cashmere coats. You make the regular one first, then do an additional craft with that as the base to make the new item. It could be a more difficult craft than the regular i110 4-star.

By making the higher version untradeable, it has to be earned, not bought. Getting it is still no easy feat. Very few crafters have the kind of Gil it takes to gear up quickly. For most, it would still be faster to gear up with Poetics. This doesn't make it easier, just more worthwhile.

the thing about crafting is the more you risk the more you could gain, get a nice balance and before long you'll be rolling in gil.

now that being said it would be really nice if S.E rewarded master crafters in some way, if not by allowing us to make i120 equivalent untradeable gear then at least a number of unique crafted untradeable glam gear to show how much effort we have put into our crafting. also I would really like the title "master crafter" added as well maybe on recognition of unlocking all the 4 star books or I guess 5 star when they introduce those in probs expansion.

the reason I would like this title added is well we deserve the recognition beyond being "builders of the realm" because 3* upwards crafters are not the same as just hitting 50 in all crafts.

Though the fact remains that it will be easier to gear up with poetics and FCoB, rather than with crafting. So after about a month, you'll have your untradeable crafted gear, which is identical to poetics, while someone who's running and clearing FCoB will likely have Dreadwyrm drops and some upgraded Poetics. So once again, you are behind, having put in more hours than the raiders did.

Still, I am glad that someone brought up the idea of "untradeable" crafted items. As this brings up a simple and effective way to get raiders into crafting, without breaking the "you must do coil to get the best gear" rule. (Will take some coding from SE's side to implement)

Skill: <Name of Coil Set> Attunement
Available to Any Crafting Class (kind of like Melding crossed with Crafting)
Primary Ingredient: Any Coil or Poetic's Weapon, Armor, or Accessory.
Secondary Ingredients: 1 Specific HQ Component from Each Crafting Class, set to a difficulty equal to the previous tiers'. (We have 4 stars now, these would be 3 stars)
Quality: 0/0
Difficulty: 1
Craftsmanship and Control Requirements equal to that of the current tier (ie: 4 stars)

The idea is, you, the dedicated raiding crafter, get every class to 50. Get everything geared. And make an HQ item (using say 20 clusters and a couple gathered resources of the same tier), from EVERY SINGLE CLASS.
Then change to the class which meets the stat requirements, combine your raiding equipment, earned from combat, with your crafting items, and create a soulbound version of the same item you used, which can be upgraded if it's from poetics.
But with 5 materia slots... Now raiders want it, and have to craft to get it.
You worked for it, you got it. 5 materia slots! No RNG! Make the gear YOU WANT!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Still, I am glad that someone brought up the idea of "untradeable" crafted items.

---

As am I. In addition, if they decided to do something like this I hope the gear would be convertible as well.

I think it's a great idea, i am also glad other people think the same about untreatable gear.

I don't mind the idea of it taking longer because, i am sure there are more people who are like me out there, that actually HATE running Coil and grinding dungeons over and cover. It makes sense for it to take longer too so that people don't INSTANTLY have some of the best gear as soon as a patch comes out.

Hi giant,

Good points. I also agree. While I consider myself more of an "Adventurer" (Combat) rather than "Crafter," I still enjoy Crafting a lot. It's really unfortunate that Yoshi P has made Crafting marginalized in 2.0 compared to 1.0 or XI.

I think there can be a compromise, but it depends on a few things:

1. There need to be More Meaningful Statistics for each Job. With More Stats to play with, there can be more Alternate Builds / Gear Sets that achieve different results.

2. With More Meaningful Stats, it means at least one "end game set" of gear could be made by Crafters.

3. Or take a lesson from an older Final Fantasy game, and have something like Cursed Gear. With Cursed Gear you needed a "Dungeon Drop" (Abjuration) which Uncursed it, *and* you needed a Crafter to craft the rest of it.

Or like in 1.0, when we had to kill Uraeus (it was a real Notorious Monster in the world, LOL), and it had a chance to drop "Uraeus Skin" which Crafters could THEN use to craft stuff (that was important at the time).

There was nothing wrong with that system. It involved both Adventurers and Crafters and they made meaningful Gear that many players really wanted.

Hopefully 3.0 changes things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiara

There was nothing wrong with that system. It involved both Adventurers and Crafters and they made meaningful Gear that many players really wanted.

Hopefully 3.0 changes things.

---

I agree that there is a good dynamic where adventurers get valuable materials that crafters can use to make stuff. We already have a lot of that in place, but crafting is more of a second class type of gear, rather than an alternative to doing repeated dungeon runs. We crafters get to take the scraps of Allagan material that drop on SCOB runs and make last generation equipment with it. I'd like to be able to make something in the current tier. Doesn't have to be the best, just better than the last tier. I think making that top level crafted stuff untradeable will alleviate many of the developers' concerns with allowing more powerful equipment to be crafted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Then change to the class which meets the stat requirements, combine your raiding equipment, earned from combat, with your crafting items, and create a soulbound version of the same item you used, which can be upgraded if it's from poetics.
But with 5 materia slots... Now raiders want it, and have to craft to get it.

---

In my experience, few people are both hardcore raiders and hardcore crafters. I think it is ok for them to be separate and specialized. In an MMORPG, people should be able to have a niche where they contribute something of value to the community which others can benefit from without having to do it for themselves. I wouldn't want raiders to feel forced into crafting anymore than I would want crafters forced into raiding. Imagine if they made all the crafting materials that dropped in dungeons/raids Untradeable. We crafters wouldn't like that.

11s Abjuration system was really what made endgame crafting worth it.

Raiders raided for different abjurations and then had to purchase a cursed item which was crafted.

Crafting HQs also wasn't 70% plus for new items it was 1-3% so even a new crafter could get lucky. (1-3 is too low but it's better then 70-100)

When NQ gear is not desired and HQ gear requires huge gil/gear/time sinks you'll have a great divide between career crafters and the rest of the player base.

I agree with Chida Rake on this. I don't know what he has given up to be one of a handful of master crafters on Behemoth server but being able to make untradable gear, Master crafter title would be nice. The time used on getting to 4 star crafting is long and crafting item for others leaves little time. In trying to have some balance of playing the game and crafting, I run about a day back log. I craft when the server is slow and less to do. It doesn't leave us with the raid time others get, yes it is a choice. After 2 star macros of nq to hq are gone. 3 star has risk, 4 star has much more and the mats are not cheap to toy with. I have a binder full of my DoH/DoL notes on crafting, good rotations and failed ones and much more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Millen1

cut

---

actually I havnt given up much really, I couldn't raid cus of afew reasons and so kinda fell into crafting as something easy for me to do beyond dungeon runs, and my fc at the time didn't have a static as we didn't have enough active players.(they've all left now)

now im in a casual static and so still have time to craft, but yeah even though I don't consider myself one of the top crafters on our server I am as well geared as them, and make all my own gear. I just think S.E should reward the people who have put so much time into helping all the other players from crafting so much stuff over the last year.

Giving them a title at the very least that shows their dedication to crafting is the least they can do. allowing them to craft current level untradeable gear effects no one but themselves as they will still have to earn the mats to craft there sets, yes we will get gear quicker than other methods but it still wouldn't be quick since se likes to have hard to aquire mats in high end synths.

ilevel is irrelevant. When you have to explain even to so called "dedicated" crafters that certain crafted gear are actually BiS, how can you expect the general ff14 player to buy our stuff. No wonder demand is so low.

I think square has done a lot with crafters since 2014. I remember the days of Astral Gear and Vanya Silk and people from coil mocking crafters saying they would never be a viable part of the game because the game designers hated crafters.

I think for some people, crafting or gathering is their favorite part of the game. It is clear the time sink is huge. Final Fantasy historically has depended on Crafters for some of the better, and often best items and vehicles in the game, but they were largely NPCs, like Cid. I do agree something is slightly off between the RNG and the 4 star material prices. They really need to stop using Legacy/Mom's Basement Accounts as samples for what kind of money and resources/time people have to play their game.

If you only appeal to 8 otakus in a basement, you will lose everyone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by giantslayer

My problem is not the difficulty of crafting (I got my LTW book in about 20 minutes with no new equipment or surpas). The issue is the scarcity of resources and the lack of reward in the end.

---

I've bumped into this very same issue.

As near as I can tell, it's basically NOT worth crafting 4-star items because, even if you DO manage to HQ the item, the rarity with which they sell means they're going to sit on your retainer for a substantial amount of time.

During the time it takes for one four star item to sell, I could've sold a dozen other items in that same slot. Combine that with the risk of outright LOSING money if you don't HQ it (such as on artisan offhands which don't sell for the sealant it takes to make them as NQ on my server) and it seems like it's just overall not worth pursuing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardButte

snip

---

Are you not starting with HQ items for 4* armor? I mean if you are doing all NQ on a piece of gear, yea there is a chance you could get bad luck and fail a Reclaim, but with HQ 2/3 (or 3/5) for the 4* mats and HQ for all the 1/2/3* mats then you should have no trouble HQing those unless you get some awful luck, in which case just Reclaim.

Aside from that, yet they do sell slowly. I don't know how your server is in terms of end game, but there are only a handful of groups on my server that run FCoB so the demand for 4* gear has been met and anything else rots on the boards for weeks. Artisan/Forager gear however sells well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibyll

*post*

---

I haven't delved into it because I just don't see it being worth the ROI plus risk factors.

It takes 6 sealants for each offhand. Those sell for ~200k on my server, so that's 1.2 mil alone right there and a HQ version sells for 2.5. A good profit margin, but that's a lof of farming and, even with Reclaim, I don't trust the "10%" risk factor because the RNG is so screwy in this game. A NQ offhand sells for ~500k, a massive loss...

Some may go for it, and more power to them, but every time I've said, "Yeah, I'm gonna buy a BS artisan offhand and make some of these!" I then look at the mats and risk vs. the money I make anyway and I'm like, "Nah...".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardButte

snip

---

The artisan off hands aren't even worth trying to sell on my server. Artisan Sandals cost half as many sealants and sell twice as fast for as much if not more. The only reason I even make these is for personal use.

The 4* battle gear on the other hand doesn't feel like it pays off. At this point anyone that wants the gear has it already and anyone that would have wanted it realizes that tome gear is easier to get.

I originally had the mentality of the OP. However, I sank about 95% of all of my gil into making the artisan OH tools for myself, melding them, remelding my body pieces, working on the books, etc. Around the time of your post (Nov 11), was when I was pretty much broke. I wound up earning back all the gil I spent ten-fold.

Great risk. Great reward. Things don't sell that fast, but when they do, its an easy profit.

Items I would like to see to improve endgame crafting:

Craftable mythic (purple) items. Require these to use materials that are bound on pickup.
Master recipe books that drop from bosses.
More raid / trial specific crafting materials.