*Caution, long narrative ahead*
So after blowing through about 600k for the new ears, neck, and belt, with perfect melds... Im once again starting to wonder whether there will be some magic gear reset in 3.0...
The new artisan stuff is I60, and at lvl 50, we had 1 star recipes to make I55 gear. So could the same thing happen again? Where the current Artisan 4 star gear becomes the new Patrician's set, and we get another round of class specific equipment, craft-able shortly after hitting 60?
Have the devs said anything about the future of crafting in the expansion? Or will we continue with the current "trend"?
- Get to cap, easy to make baseline class specific items, top end combat gear reliably HQ-able with enough melds.
- New raids added, ilvl increased, no new recipes to compare w/ raid gear (cept occasional 5x IV Overmeld cases)
- New ilvl cap, same gear, new recipes partly rng based, can get ~80% hq rate reliably starting with HQ.
- Another new cap, new gear/food that is completely reliant on RNG to HQ, otherwise it is worse than the old gear, and more combat recipes which don't compete with raid gear. (sans belt w/ 5x IV's)
IDK, to me it seems like SE took people's complaints of "The 2 star items are too easy! Max melds + CP Food + Perfect RNG-Free rotation to HQ is TOO EASY!" And just gradually went more and more overboard.
2 star items materials were found on resources, in decent quantities, and a "master crafter" could have a decent HQ rate starting with NQ. - But that's too easy...
3 star items now require the gatherer to grind out about a week's worth of nodes, with some rng thrown in. Along with additional materials which can only be obtained using tomes. The recipe quality and progress nearly double, while all actions are less effective. So we brought back PbP, though now we MUST start with HQ materials to have a good chance to HQ. Even with HQ materials, the reliable RNG-free rotation is no longer enough, so we all go to Hasty Touch, the 80%x10-11 RNG rotation.
^ Okay... some rng, fine. Needing tome materials for everything, not good. Needing RNG and HQ materials to have a decent shot... bad. This is the origin of the Rumination-Reclaim method.
4 star items. Need desynth drops... Desynth: Grinding on top of rng to not blow it up, on top of rng to get what you want... TERRIBLE.
Also need gathered resources which require more gatherer grinding on top of the previous gatherer grinding. And tome mats. And Daily Quest mats! You can get 6 tokens per day, need 8 to get 1 mat, need 3-6 mats per recipe... "If its not gonna HQ, Reclaim and start over"
And of course, the recipe level is now so high that Ingenuity 1 has no effect, and Ingenuity 2 is barely noticeable. The progress is huge, the quality is huge, yet the durability and our CP are roughly the same. For most 4 star recipes, even an 11 stack Byregot's wont get it to 100%, unless it lands on a Good or Excellent... *I've lost track of how many different times RNG has come into this process now*
So to recap.
2 stars, claimed to be too easy since once you had perfect melds and the perfect rotation, you could HQ every time... IDK. I for one think that if someone went to the trouble of getting perfect stats, and executing a perfect rotation, they SHOULD get the ideal result... But people complained, as people do.
3 stars, significant increase in difficulty from 2 stars, demanding a rotation based on RNG to HQ, sometimes even WITH all HQ mats. So they brought back some of the RNG, but this may have been too much. Something more along the lines of NQ + RNG and HQ + NO RNG would have been more suitable, especially since all tome materials are NQ by default.
4 stars... no... just no... I understand that they want to make... MAKE, people do new content. But cmon! Requiring high lvl desynth on gear that requires 10 HQ 2 star tokens per piece is just painful. To make most 4 star items, you need to desynth Allagan gear, Artisan Spec's, or the Forager's Hat.
Then we do Ixal dailies for 0.75 sealant per day, and put it all together into a purely RNG based smashathon where if you dont get 8-10 stacks and an Excellent just in time for your Great Strides - Byregot's, your best option is to Reclaim, trash the synth, and hope your 90% chance of keeping the materials pulls though.
This is ginding + rng for demi's + rng for hasty + rng for condition + rng for reclaim... why???
At this point crafting has turned into the "Gillionaire's" commodity. The only useful equipment is in the form of top lvl HQ Pentamelded w/ Grade IV's equipment.
To be frank, most people are still buying 2 star foods. Not because 2 star foods are amazing, but because 3 star foods are significantly more difficult to make both crafting and resource wise, for a small increase in stats. And 4 star food... heh... those are selling for some 50-100k apiece, with no buyers, simply due to the excessive difficulty in obtaining the ingredients and making them HQ.
In terms of numbers, Vit on Tank food. 2 star HQ: 19, 3 star HQ: 23, 4 star HQ: 28.
An i110 tank has nearly 8.4k base hp in a group. And while the 4 star does provide ~50% more vit than the 2 star, that 9 vit equates to an extra 131 hp, on top of ~8.7k (w/ 2 star HQ), an increase of 1.5% more hp.
One and a half percent, between the now super easy to make 2 star, and the very difficult to make 4 star... Does something seem out of place here?
Okay, ranting aside, I really do hope that the devs at SE take a look at the effort vs reward of crafting in the latest updates.
The gradual progression of equipment does make sense, though it often feels like it comes in unappetizing lumps, wherein we put in a significant effort to make new equipment which is marginally better, and inevitably does little to aid us with the new recipes.
The bigger concern though, is the massive recipe and ingredients difficulty creep. The recipe requirements and penalties due to level discrepancy are growing MUCH faster than our own stats. So every time a new tier of recipes comes out, we fall further and further behind, going from perfect melds and a good rotation gives us a 90-100% hq, down to perfect melds + food + fc buffs + HQ everything along with rotations heavily based on multi-tiered RNG now giving us a 30-100% chance, depending entirely on RNG.
...Guys... RNG is not fun, nor difficult, it is simply an artificial difficulty, and when we are forced to rely on it, it just gets frustrating.
I hope that in the expansion, there will be a smoother progression of gear upgrades and recipe difficulty.
Something along the lines of a new set of cross-class gear (lets say left side in one patch, right side in the next), along with an increase in recipe difficulty such that when using fully melded, up-to-date gear, along with a sound rotation, the top tier recipes would all be around the same effective difficulty as 3 stars, if not slightly lower to account for many components not being available in an HQ form.
With an additional increase to the availability of materia, crafters, and likely gatherers would have the following progression:
Hit 60 - make class specific, or generic set.
Patch 1 - New tier of recipes, make new left side equipment using "old gear", meld, make new top tier recipes without depending on RNG given mostly HQ materials.
Patch 2 - New tier of recipes, make new right side equipment (using lvl 60's right and patch 1's left), meld, make new recipes without RNG.
Patch 3 - New tier, new right side... etc...
Every patch should bring a little more crafter progression, and a crafter who keeps up with their progression should have no difficulty in making the top tier items. Conversely, a crafter who falls significantly behind will either need to gear up again, or depend solely on an RNG based rotation to compete with crafters who kept up.
- Balance of Effort and Reward -
PS. As far as the value of crafted goods... They are for the most part decent, but the current recipe difficulty and costly materials put them far out of reach for the vast majority of the playerbase.
Granted, Lucrezia used mostly HQ i110 crafted gear with 5x IV melds on pretty much everyone to clear T13... But that would have required several crafters who were already fully geared, along with stockpiles of Oaknots, and TENS OF MILLIONS of gil, or another stockpile of grade IV materia to produce... So the things crafters make does have its uses, but it is just prohibitively difficult to produce.
Future of Crafting In 3.0 - Trends and Value
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11-11-2014, 03:49 AMKenji1134Future of Crafting In 3.0 - Trends and Value
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11-11-2014, 09:35 AMRiceisNice
Just want to add some points in.
-I do agree that if you're using HQ materials when possible, you should have a reasonable shot at making it happen. That's not the case with trying to get master books (I and especially II) where HQ mats contribute less than 10-15% of the overall quality. Although this is specifically for master books and I didn't mind it too much...until you get into 3* and you end up taking in rumination and reclaim just because you couldn't fish out a good/excellent to get higher than a 25% HQ rate. 2* HQing with NQ mats was possible because you essentially had end game gear with melding, and heck, my 3* HQs were literally out of sheer luck (HQing at 2% and 8% when I wasn't even working for quality...)
-I severely dislike how they handled 4* crafting, namely gating it by the really high stat requirements, which necessitate the new offhands, which requires the sealants that are gated by beast tribes. I thought they said a while back they didn't want beast tribes rewarding BiS for crafting (in regards to the ixali smithing gloves), so.... what happened? It doesn't help either that the offhands fall into the same category as 3*, as well as having their possible starting quality severely diluted by the x6 sealants.
-From what I hear though, the nature of making 4* items is no different than 3*... that is to say, RNG and fishing for good/excellent. The problem is, and this is especially the concern for the consumables, is the really high stat requirements. Heck, some of us can't even make full use of the foods because its values are so high. Let's also gate it via desynthesis, which at first was only necessary for the demimateria crafting (mostly for glamour and bonus accessories), now its found its way into master II recipe books. -
11-11-2014, 10:11 AMKatchoo
I agree with you totally on 4-Stars apart from partially this:
I actually find 4-star EASIER than 3 star to craft. Had no trouble HQing kirimu leather (5/6 from NQ mats). With HQ mats i got my HQ Kirimu Coat with 7/8 stacks on a Normal BB.Quote:
The progress is huge, the quality is huge, yet the durability and our CP are roughly the same. For most 4 star recipes, even an 11 stack Byregot's wont get it to 100%, unless it lands on a Good or Excellent... *I've lost track of how many different times RNG has come into this process now*
The Master Recipe II Tokens on the other hand can go to hell with their Good / Excellent fishing.
I DO agree tho that there might be a little too much RNG in play and i think it is rather unfair for some recipes have a high amount of materials that can not be HQ. -
11-12-2014, 12:51 PMscarebearz
I think the new 4 star difficulty is balanced pretty well, if a bit too easy.
The mats required however i think area bit over the top for i110 items.
Much more timely/costly than 2 and 3 star items were in comparison. -
11-13-2014, 12:53 AMRiceisNiceThe huge level difference makes ingeunity pretty ireelevant (saving CP) other than that, 4* crafting just seems the same. And for the most part, I don't mind the materials required for some of the 4* crafting (specifically the battle gear that require allagan and solderily materials).Quote:
Originally Posted by scarebearz
It's the process of getting the stats for 4* crafting...that requires the new offhand, which requires 6 ehcatli sealants (time gated by 8 days), which is then RNG gated for HQing because the 6 sealants are diluting the quality increase. Then the Master II books which are even worse than Master I in regards to getting the proper quality for it.
Food though...it's just blagh. The materials are absurd to acquire (especially the fishes), HQing it can be a pain because it also uses soldierly mats (Which cannot come in HQ), and some of them you won't ever maximize your stats that you're better off making full use from a 2* food. -
11-13-2014, 01:47 AMKenji1134For the most part, all HQ food gives you the same +% increase as the same "type" of food of a lower tier, but with a higher cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
Using tank food as an example, it gives you 5% Vit and 5% Parry, be it Finger Sandwich, Popoto Pancakes, or Bacon Bread. So once you cap the 2 star, you should move on to the 3 star, to make use the the higher cap, with the same % increase.
That said, the 4 star food caps wont be reached for a good while. -
11-14-2014, 11:32 PMKenji1134
Support this question for the Live Letter, sadly at the bottom of a page. =/
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2580436 -
11-15-2014, 07:35 AMseorin
Great post! 100% agreed, especially with this part:
On top of the RNG frustration, the sheer cost of all this has me wondering who it's even for. The forums exploded with outrage regarding housing prices, and that's with small houses being as cheap as 2 million gil. In terms of housing, taking a single class from 3 star ready to 4 star costs me four houses. Re-maxing out all my crafting classes (again) would cost me 30 houses. New i110 gear is selling for a minimum of four houses each piece. If the average player is having trouble buying even one house at the current prices, who exactly is all this stuff being aimed at? Most people don't even have the option of considering whether it's worth the money to them or not because they simply will never have access to that kind of gil to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenji1134
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11-15-2014, 07:51 AMRiceisNiceIt's especially daunting when famfruit is running on "low economic" prices for their houses...yet materia and materials are going upwards of 500k+Quote:
Originally Posted by seorin
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11-15-2014, 08:18 AMKenji1134Granted, SE does not set the prices for things like Mastercrafts and Sealants, that is all the player's doing, but this example just perfectly puts things into perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by seorin
Time consuming ingredients + high risk melding + time consuming RNG crafting causes people to feel justified in putting up the end results for huge prices.
And there are ways to address every part of this core issue, but I think there is another aspect that we (and SE) are missing from the economic standpoint.
Lets suppose...
I have A, and I sell A for X.
Then B comes out, and B is better than A, but also more difficult to make (for the sake of argument lets say that somehow A and B use the same components).
So if I can make B, then I should sell B for more than A, so I sell it for Y.
Well in time, people get new equipment, and now B is just as easy to make as A, with the same components... yet nobody is going to lower the price of B...
Later, C comes out, more difficult than B, so I should sell it for more than B, I sell for Z... and so on.
So even IF we had a progression system where you had "gear for making 2 stars", which let you efficiently make 2 stars. Then you would upgrade to "gear for making 3 stars", and made 3 stars, and they used the same ingredients, people would sell 3 stars for more.
"Higher Level Recipe" = Higher Price.
Now throw in the cost of new ingredients, which are harder to get and again result in a Higher Price.
Now add in the need to remeld, and the massive rng and cash investment that remelding entails, that effort results in... a Higher Price.
And the recipe itself is more difficult, because even with the new best gear, you still cannot get the same consistent success rate as you could on "older" recipes when they were new... harder recipe, more effort, more luck required, Higher Price.
It is this combination of effectively every part of the crafting process becoming more difficult and time consuming which is causing these HUGE price increases every time a new tier comes out.
The funny thing is, this is what the "vocal minority" as we call them, asked for!
People said crafting recipes were too easy - stat requirements and progress/quality went up significantly.
People said crafting rotations were too predictable - now you must use 80% HT, and often fish for suitable conditions to use Byregot's.
People said gathered HQ's were useless - Quality shot up so much you almost HAVE TO start with HQ's, now NQ's are useless.
People said fishing was useless - We now need rare fish to craft half our gear! RARE HQ FISH!
People said desynth was useless - Introducing... MASTERCRAFT DEMIMATERIA!
And I guess some people wanted more "interdependence" between the combat, crafting, and gathering classes - We now need items from tomes, dailies, fish, desynth, and gathering to make anything of remote value.
*Sigh*
Individually, most of these things are reasonable.
But together, well, we have this mess. Where a piece of i110 equivalent equipment costs "2 small houses". Where "new" food for 3 hours of raiding for 8 people would cost... erm, 3*2/hr*8*~30k = 1.4 million, or about 2/3 of a small HOUSE to feed your raid FOR ONE NIGHT!!!
~ Seorin, I am really enjoying the Small House analogy, thank you. ~ -
11-15-2014, 11:43 PMKenji1134
Since there seems to be a decent number of people watching this thread, I want to present a "prototype" idea for how to address at least some of the issues from the above lists.
The central concept is that we change the benefit of HQ ingredients, from adding quality to "reducing" quantity.
This goes back to my question on the Live Letter thread regarding whether we could substitute a larger amount of a more common item for a single rarer item, but extending that idea to crafting as a whole.
Let me provide an example to illustrate.
Suppose we are making an Iron Ingot. This recipes calls for 3 Iron Ore. If you use 3 NQ Ore, you start with 0 quality. If you using 3 HQ Ore, you start with 50% quality.
My suggestion is to make it such that instead of an HQ item adding quality, it simply requires you to use less of it for the synth.
Under this method, you can use 3 NQ Ore, and start with 0 quality. Or you can use 1 HQ Ore, and start with 0 quality. This assumes a general NQ:HQ value ratio of 3:1, so any HQ is worth 3x as much as its NQ counterpart.
However I did remove the quality bonus from the HQ Ore. Compensating for this is rather simple, all we do is cut the total quality for, well every item, by half.
Here is the end result.
Total quality required for all recipes is halved, making it "seem" like we are starting with all HQ materials every time, though really we just have less quality to crank through. This means that the end result is entirely dependent on the crafter's gear, melds, abilities, and "crafting skill". Everyone starts at 0, whether you are dirt poor and gathered things yourself, or are filthy rich and have an FC that just showers you with HQ everything.
For gatherers, this means that the NQ items you find ARE NOT WORTHLESS! They are just "worth less" than an HQ item... 3 times less... but that are still worth something!
And for adventurers (Tomes, Ixal Items, and Desynths), since these items are generally not available in an HQ form, then the number of items required will stay roughly the same.
Generally available items, such as Tome Mats and Desynth items will stay at the current levels. Time gated items, will require less, and perhaps come with an alternative item that could be used (in a higher quantity) to compensate. -
11-16-2014, 12:57 AMRiceisNiceI don't understand how this would help with anything. It'd probably make it worse because the % HQ rate does not increase linearly. Example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenji1134
3 star crafting is typically 4980 quality max, and usually you can only get up to 1500 in quality from HQ materials.
>This is roughly "32%" of the total quality, but it only translates to 9% rate to HQ the item. As for your iron ore exaple, while you do start with a 433/866 quality, or 50% of it's total quality, this only translates to 15% actual HQ rate. You can see this for yourself with any crafting recipe.
>You still need to build up 3480 quality from the crafting process to reach 100% quality (100% actual rate)
>The above requires the stars aligning; 8 stacks of IQ + GS with a good condition, or at least 5 stacks with an excellent. Otherwise, the maximum quality you'd get is around 2300
Now comparing; (2300+1500)/4980 quaility, or 3800/4980 quaility. Using the power of simulation...
http://puu.sh/cRN26/3abb74c896.png
Reaching 78% of your total quality leads to 69% as your actual HQ rate. This is what I typically get with 7 or 8 stacks of IQ out of the 10 I can possibly fit... on average anyway.
Now let's take your idea. Instead of starting with 1500/4980, we start with 0/3480..
>Assuming the same scenario as above, let's add in 2300 quality from crafts alone.
> 2300/3480 leads to 66% of your total quality, which translates to roughly 23-25% actual HQ rate.
http://puu.sh/cRNfN/123a9e0544.png
And just to validate the above screenshot, 2233/4980 is roughly 65% total quality, which translates to 23%
All this would do is just make HQing harder for people who cannot cap quality (whether it be through stats or RNG, which is definitely the case for most of hte 3* and 4* crafts) or for recipes that have incredibly diluted quality pools due to impossible-to-HQ-materials (which is also the case in many of the recipes), which is especially the big issue of trying to HQ those goddamn master II books that can only have a max of 1100/8900 quality with possible HQ ingredients. -
11-16-2014, 09:21 AMKenji1134
Suppose I should emphasis this part.
"Compensating for this is rather simple, all we do is cut the total quality for, well every item, by half."
So that 4980 quality recipe (Forager's Sledgehammer) would now be a 2490 quality recipe.
You gained 2300 quality from the actual crafting, not the ingredients, which is 92% of the maximum available.
My idea is that we cut the quality required to reach 100% HQ by half, and remove the influence of HQ materials on initial quality.
Instead, the use of HQ materials will allow you to spend 1 HQ mat instead of 3 NQ of the same mat, for a given recipe.
So instead of coupling your final HQ rate to the starting materials, we would couple your throughput to the starting materials.
Using the Master 2 Books as an example. Right now you need 8900 total to have a guaranteed HQ, and if you magically had all of the ingredients in an HQ form, you'd need 4450 total.
Under my system, the maximum quality required would only be 4450! But you would always start at 0 quality, so whether or not you succeed in the HQ depends entirely on the actual crafting process.
The other difference would be that the recipe would require say 1 HQ of whatever the base component is, or 3 NQ of that same component. -
11-16-2014, 10:15 AMRiceisNiceNow I see where you're getting at, though I'd still disagree with that sort of implementation, if only by the principle of us somehow "making more out of less." Not to mention with our current system of crafting, it wouldn't work because of how some of the recipes are designed. Nearly all CUL recipes require one of each recipes, rendering your implementation moot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenji1134
Or maybe you can do something like "Having one of each ingredient in HQ will yield you x3 of that craft"...well now then it rolls to making certain equipment, that is, crafted weapons such as Inferno Axe (which requires Iron War Axe). The prospect of being able to make 3 axes out of one because you used a high quality one sounds absurd even by WoW standards... not to mention this would severely bug the crap out of me (since I'm a culinary major) that I could make 3 bowls of risotto magically from one cup of rice... Or if we go back to the first example...we forge together three axes into one super axe?
The way it is right now, NQ ingredients have a place for people who have "mastered" their craft, that they can HQ something 100% without needing HQ ingredients, or even materials that are in constant demand (specifically toad leather/skin, among other things) -
11-16-2014, 11:32 PMdspguy
The greatest difficulty with 4-star is the high entry fee followed closely by the 3 HQ items you need for the books. Past that, the rest of 4-star crafting is much more forgiving. Any non-crafter/gathering item, you can start with 50% quality. You can endure a lot of RNG fail and still HQ. Or, you can spread out your NQ subs amongst other synths. Let's say you were making a set of Kirimu gear, and you got 9 HQs/5 NQs. Use 2 NQs on body, 1 NQ on others. All synths would start with like 40% quality. More than enough to safely HQ them all.
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11-18-2014, 05:38 PMNationOfZealotsSee this is what I thought, when Oakknots came in I thought they were good just for what was being on offer from the vendor, if not just trash like the 1.0 beast tribe currencies - where in the sweet F was it pointed out that players to hoard them for Sealant? Not complaining because @ DoHL all 50s, 4 star crafts are worthless right now (except for the the minions IMO), this must be an MMO thing where currencies are introduced and are naturally saved in anticipation of a future patch currency sink?Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
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11-19-2014, 02:18 AMMishini_DracotoLike the fact that I had held onto all of my Clear Demimateria all the way up to patch 2.38 b/c I was nervous that they were going to implement a use for them, even though the descriptive text basically says "JUST SELL THIS TO A VENDOR FOR GIL"Quote:
Originally Posted by NationOfZealots
The only MMORPG's I've really played are FFXI, and FFXIV.
If anything, I would say it's very much like the Final Fantasy Series, however, to give random items/trinkets some sort of great value at the end of a game / reward people for hanging onto them. Final Fantasy taught me to hoard things, because you never know when you might just need that "Random Heap of Junk." More, something as plainly obvious as "Pile of Heaping Junk" more often than not, is used to make the Ultimate Polearm in the game. lolDRG. K I'm done. -
11-19-2014, 10:43 AMNationOfZealotsI totally know what you mean, I still have a whole lot of 1.0 junk that has not been addressed by SE if it is still good to keep or not...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto
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11-20-2014, 01:11 AMMishini_Dracoto
Somebody recenl mentioned camping Uraeus for Uraeus Leather. /dream. One of the most engaging things I ever did was camp Dodore Spawns to solo Dodore as THM. took me quite a few ties to et it down, and there were always people around waiting to finish off that kill once I died. At least the Dodore Doublet is still in the game. Too bad it's not Super amazing or anything.
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11-20-2014, 09:39 PMRaubahn
Here's what really really pisses me off with each crafting patch, so am a main Armorer i really like to make armors etc for myself and friends especially that oh so good Wootz sets (or Koing and Ares if you prefer) but behold!! SE gives Blacksmith the Ingot recipe and not just that their entire MASTER book if you wanna call it that way consists of just 1 recipe !!.
Now dont get me wrong on this but if WVR,LTW,GSM and CRP can make their own primary mats themselves why cant an Armorer do the Wootz ingot? why do we have to be in partnership with fucking BSM?! . And to add to this mess more if say i wanted to be an armorer and make the armors i have to do double the work a LTW,WVR and GSM would do (Need to get two supras, need to Turn in 6 HQ Supra turn ins and behold!! need fucking TWO Off hands fully melded).
The point of my rant is . . . Why cant BSM make weapons? why does he stops at i70 weapons and thats it? why does SE insist that Armorer and Blacksmith need to be in partener ship is it because if they give him 110 crafted weapons these would be too OP? NOPE Novus does that too and is pretty easy to get with all the Atma and Animus nerfs , oh and to make matters worse seems the Allagan wootz Nugget is so damn cheap on balmung that it goes for about 10k!! THEN WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT OF MAINING ARMORER AS A CRAFT!! -
11-20-2014, 11:34 PMMishini_DracotoQuote:
Originally Posted by Raubahn
I can't click like on this hard enough. I agree with everything in the first two paragraphs. My goal is to be that Completely Self-reliant Tank/craft all my armour / gather all the materials for my craft. That being said, Allagan Nuggets aren't something we produce as Armorers. The Allagan nuggets are easy to get, and I, for one, am happy at the low cost. Makes the ingredients lower in cost to make (but I mean hey, you still need 5 of them for each piece of wootz armor) On Ultros, last I checked, they weren't selling for less depspite cheaper mats. all of the i110 gear was selling from 5mil-10mil. I'm aaaalmost ready to start crafting them. I am glad knowing the mats are cheaper / it will make my craft more relevant.
It's very anti-climatic as well, that as a BSM, you go through all that work, and your ONLY 4* Recipe is an ingot used by Armorer. The jobs who made out well are WVR/LTW. Between those two you can make the most full sets of gear, and they are currently selling like hotcakes @ 25mil/set. -
11-21-2014, 12:42 AMRaubahnLemme list you the prices on Balmung:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto
Allagan wootz nugget. 15k-12k 68 on market
Allagan leather. 140k and 25 on market
Allagan silk. 160k and 28 on market
Now here's the thing all of them are easily obtained in T4 yes, but how come the nugget is the only one that is way cheap? am not saying it should be higher or anything am actually glad for it but it just pisses me off a bit.
I think SE screwed something up with the drop rates and made the nugget a really high chance because to be honest even if we assume that these nuggets are coming off Armorer desynth then it would be the same rate as the Allagan silk because you get like two wvr belts 1 body and 1 legs from there you can desynth as a wvr and dont forget 2.4 is like the WVR/LTW haven in leveling its desynth lol. -
11-21-2014, 05:49 PMseorinI read a great suggestion for fixing crafting somewhere on these forums (sorry, I forgot where it was, so I don't know who to credit for it). Simply: add a resynth option. Allow us to use an NQ version of a craft instead of rare materials like demimateria or sealant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenji1134
I like this idea because it's a very simple addition that addresses a lot of frustrations with the current system. When a novus meld fails, at least you get to keep the alexandrite so you can try again. A similar system for crafting would ease RNG cruelty on crafters and make rare items more affordable for buyers. It's win/win. -
11-21-2014, 10:52 PMRiceisNiceWhich defeats the point of a high-profile crafting. If you're messing up a synthesis because you messed up a step, that's a problem on your own end and you shoulder taken better precautions.Quote:
Originally Posted by seorin
...actually I can't understand what you're trying to get at. You took one idea and go on a completely different one. -
11-26-2014, 04:57 AMSibyllIf I recall correctly, they pulled this same thing with Wolfram Ingots. I was really disappointed to see that the only thing my BSM could make was a mat used in all the ARM recipes and a few other class recipes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raubahn
I don't really mind them having classes require other classes to function because it promotes markets between other classes. However, having some classes require mats and others be self-sufficient is pretty awful design.
The design of DoH/DoL classes overall has quite a few flaws (ex: cross class system). -
12-25-2014, 04:04 PMKiyytoAgh, so you just want to always win... I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by seorin
._.
OP, you must be this forums biggest crybaby -
12-25-2014, 08:49 PMEmpty-handed
resynth option is cool i think.
but added penalties :D
starting HQ rate is lowered?
double the amount of shards required?
or
need X amount of the NQ product to resynth. 5? 3?.
something like the that to balance it out ^^ -
12-25-2014, 08:58 PMTruedragon
The trend is undoubtedly that crafting for new ilevel will increase in difficulty. The new 4 star have already proven this. THe 5 star will be even harder to get into and harder to craft. I like it.
What I dont like is how the 4 stars are lower in ilevel and that some cannot be BiS even when fully melded. If they are going to make crafting more difficult, they need to seriously consider making crafted gear BiS again. Otherwise it is completely pointless to make crafts harder in difficulty and more costly. It is a huge investment and gill sink just to be able to craft these items. -
12-27-2014, 07:26 PMSibyllI recall in one of the live letters they explicitly stated they wouldn't be making recipes more difficult than the 4*.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truedragon
Also, I agree about the crafted gear not being on par with raid drops. I'd honestly be content with the gear being introductory if it weren't for the materia investment required to utilize it. The gear itself is a decent investment for something that will be replaced be a coil drop and is easily replaced in 1-2 weeks worth of tome capping. This was really my lack of motivation for getting to 4*. Even when you get the recipes you are still going to need to dip a decent amount of gil into a pentamelded off hand if you plan on using CP food.
Couldn't an alternative be to make BoP crafting mats drop from coil that would be used to either upgrade or craft a piece of gear and implement a "Request Craft" feature similar to melding so that the raider that won the drop wouldn't be required to be a geared crafter to make or upgrade their loot? This would prevent people from selling the coil mat drops on the board similar to the BCoB mats and it would make crafters relevant for something other than making niche raid gear and DoH/DoL gear. The icing on the cake would be that the best gear would still require you to clear the raids which is what Yoshi has stated is the reasoning behind not making crafted items BiS. -
12-27-2014, 09:43 PMscarebearzI hope this is not true, as most 4* crafts are already very easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibyll
The gap in difficulty between 2* and 3* was much more noticable. -
12-28-2014, 10:30 AMSibyll2* 40 durability stuff was on par with 3* 80 durability stuff, but because you basically had no quality bar. The 2* 80 durability recipes were a joke even with all NQ mats. From what I've been told the difference between 3* and 4* is an extra PbP step at the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by scarebearz