i'm a bit upset, we have told them for 2 patch now that the crafting mat dropping from the reward of the boss was something we didn't want.
that was better to make them drop secondary chest, like in wanderer palace.
right now get a gears part (i'm talking of the armor) in the new dungeon of the expert is rare, we fight for get bean most of the time.
Dungeon and loot
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11-04-2014, 07:54 PMsilentwindfrDungeon and loot
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11-04-2014, 08:04 PMSylveI'd rather see them make one small change.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
Have every boss drop 2 chests. One chest has gear, the other has crafting materials. This way, those who don't craft won't always be getting shafted by runs that only drop crafting materials.
Either that, or have the crafting materials drop from the random treasure chests found throughout the dungeon.
It's pretty silly that we have 3 alternate methods of obtaining crafting mats (Oaknots, Soldiery Tomes and Company Seals) yet we may ONLY obtain the dungeon sets from Dungeons that share their loot tables with those craft mats that are so easy to obtain in other ways. -
11-04-2014, 08:21 PMPr0c3ss0r
Dungeon in this game feel more like:
--Under level 50--
**Weeeeeeeeeeee EXP, kill faster damnit, so i can Q more!
--Above level 50--
**Fak... i don't want to do this again, but i need poetics/soldery.
**........Don't want to do this again, but i need it for my relic.
**Bah just bored, why not.
Where the fun =/ Is even more shocking that all the new content drop only i90 item, i mean... common, you get poetics reward for i120 gear and soldery for i110, but hey, here a i90 item that you can't spirit bound, can't sell, can't trade. -
11-04-2014, 08:26 PMMusashidon
money is more important than gear to me!
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11-04-2014, 08:27 PMNexxus
Do they think potions on coffer is usefull ? Mats should be there and stuff in boss chest.
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11-04-2014, 08:34 PMLoki
Ya they should just remove all these shitty potions from regular chests. Come on, chests are supposed to be some treasures.... and we can find shitty potions in it lol woow so awsome for some old ruins.
They could put some random sum of Gils splitted between members, some housing furnitures from the place in question, some skins (even not some new skins in the 3 new dungeons ...), some rare dyes etc.
Most of th time people just avoid chests cause they don't want useless potions into their inventory, so what the point to put some chests in dungeons.... -
11-04-2014, 08:46 PMGardesGimme all your hi-elixirs then. My blm can't get enough of that stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
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11-04-2014, 08:50 PMLoki
How can you be out of mana as blm :s even as sch or whm (except really long fights).
It wouldn't bother me if potions in general were more useful than that but actually it doesn't reward the player at all or give him the motivation to do the dungeon again except for capping his "points"... -
11-04-2014, 08:53 PMCoatl
BLMs can opt to use ethers or hi-elixirs to triple flare. Idk why hi-elixirs over ether though.
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11-04-2014, 08:58 PMPr0c3ss0r
Yoshi need to wake up, game wont stay alive long if this keep going on.
The game is TOO much focused on one thing -> COIL and only COIL. Its a MMORPG, it make no sense that all the BiS/interest come from 1 event..... We need more than that... -
11-04-2014, 08:59 PMGardesTastes better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coatl
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11-04-2014, 09:03 PMLoki
Ok i didn't know for the triple flare thing but if it's only useful for BLMs that's just sux anyway and you can craft those mp potions.
In a gneral way when you are going into a dungeon or find some "treasures" you don't expect to find some simple potions.... maybe i expect too much lol as an adventurer. -
11-04-2014, 09:59 PMFelisMaybe for the pevious owner of the chests the potions were a treasure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
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11-04-2014, 10:32 PMKiara1Actually triple flare is the most fun in the game for blm. So the hi elixirs are great imo. Also those pots can make a bug difference in pvp (but why do they share same cd as x-stat potion :()Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
But yes rare dyes or maybe say 10k gil split up between the party would be better though -
11-04-2014, 10:56 PMZanzhizExaverion
While the loot is a problem in my opinion; I'd rather them change the dungeon layout.
If you haven't noticed; Since Brayflox, Every single dungeon has NOT had a path that you can stray off and get a chest for fighting an extra pack of monsters. Every new dungeon is linear, straight line, no extra chests.
That's what makes these dungeons boring. There's no choice, and the extra chests don't even have a chance to drop gear or crafting materials.
For real, who uses the damned Hi-Potions that the chests drop throughout the dungeons? Make THOSE drop the crafting items, and make the bosses drop loot.
It's pathetic and lazy if you ask me. -
11-04-2014, 11:11 PMsilentwindfrthe trouble lie in the player, let me explain what i means, the player will often use the most efficient way to max him gain of exp, gils or token. then why add more road if player will anyway always use the same? that why the dungeon did become linear. don't get me wrong, i don't like this idea of road we must follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion
but the only way to change this is to make radical change in the way the modern mmoprg definite the dungeon... and i dunno if yoshida and it team want to risk this for now. -
11-04-2014, 11:15 PMEinheriso this game is going to fail according to you because you can't get BiS for the current content cycle with out doing the only content BiS is relevant to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr0c3ss0r
So the second best gear and third best gear that out gears everything but the one thing that gives BiS isn't good enough for you because it can be bought with the tokens from running that dungeon with the shitty loot from chests? Is that what your saying? -
11-04-2014, 11:22 PMZanzhizExaverionI completely disagree with this. People will do anything and everything for glamour gear in this game, good or bad. Efficiency is a thing, but only to those who play to advance rather than indulge. The issue with new age gamers is that they don't indulge in content, they just play it to try and be the best, and that's what WoW did to the MMO industry. They took it from indulging to a grindfest with one clear road and nowhere else to turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
Hopefully the dev team takes a stand with 3.0 and tears the game apart in terms of progression. -
11-04-2014, 11:32 PMEinheriYeah unfortunately mmos are all about instant gratification. I dont know if there are enough people that want "adventure" over path of least resistance any more. in the least it would have to be optional.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion
I put this together for another thread but it seems relevent here as the topic of concern is the lack of meaningful progression dungeons seem to provide:
Just wanted to add my thoughts on the matter. First off I don't see the current system changing before the xpac if at all.
Looking back at content progression in 2.0, I think with fewer levels to go through in the xpac a more defined content progression will ensue. As we look back to ARR launch there was a break down in the content progression because Coil was released before CT, and dungeons were almost never used for the gear they dropped but merely as the quickest way to a currency cap.
A few changes I would like in the for future with regards to content progression;
1. Dungeons with useful loot and a max Ilvl sync so they never become completely arbitrary. This would be the entry level for content progression.
2. 3.0 Version of the CT to be the entry point of raiders.
3. For CT add random bonus parameters to trigger extra loot chests a with separate weekly loot lock, i.e. Kill X boss with out killing their minions, don't allow players to be hit by y spell. This would add incentives to get FC/Alliance groups and more teamwork between the parties.
4. Add a CT Hard mode- This (possibly a 8 man version) would allow those who want a more adventure-ish type of raid, with trash (CC) and exploration, varying bosses and mechanics, and non combat encounters. This would have a weekly lock like coil on access instead of weekly allowance on loot like normal CT.
5. 3.0 Coil would continue to have highest Ilvl rewards and relevant content difficulty. Maintains the weekly locks. Increase number of turns to 7-9 bosses per Coil.
6. After completing coil an additional weekly quest would become available, completing the coil with this quest would grant a currency to spend on coil loot that RNG deems you unworthy of. I.E.- 4-6 weekly completions for Accessories, 6-8 for minor armor, 8-10 for major armor, 12-15 for weapon.
7.Savage coil being available in place of regular coil locks, once regular coil is completed. Same amount of rewards and ilvl but the gear should be visually distinct. Dye-able armor, more pointy bits, visual effects on chest and glowing weapons.
8.Sync Max Ilvl for Savage version with that turns max. So having those items/weapons are always an achievement but not gated by time.
Examples of Ilvl progression.
Dungeons= 200 (Max ilvl sync to 210)
Lesser tomes= 205
3.0 CT= 210 Armor
3.0 H-Primals= 210 Accessories and weapons (mixed table)
Crafted gear= 205-215 depending on melds
3.0 CT Hard= 215 Armor
3.0 X-Primals= 215 Accessories and quest for weapons.
Major Tomes= 215
3.0 Coil= 220 with 225 weapons (ilvl's 200 to enter, 210 to be expected)
ILvl Inflation 1;
HM Dungeon= 210 (max ilvl sync to 220)
Lesser Tome= 215
Secont CT= 220 armor
Crafted Gear= 215-225 depending on melds
Second H-CT= 225 armor
X-Primals= 225 accessories. Extra chest with weapon triggered by random extra fight parameter.
Major Tome= 230
Second coil= 240 with 245 Wep (ilvl 220 expected)
Ilvl Inflation 2;
Expert Dungeons=220 (Max ilvl sync to 230)
Lesser Tomes=230
Third CT= 235 Armor
Crafted-235-240 Depending on Melds
Third CT Hard-240 Armor
X-Primals= 240 accessories. Extra chest with weapon triggered by random extra fight parameter.
Major Tomes= 250
Third Coil= 260 with 265 Wep (ilvl 240 expected -
11-05-2014, 12:02 AMAmenianThe sky is falling! The sky is falling! *flail*Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr0c3ss0r
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11-05-2014, 12:44 AMSummonerSenah
Actually there's a little area in Hullbreaker that most people skip because there's no real reason to check it. I think it might have treasure chests but they only drop potion so no one cares. That goes back to the real issue, which is that there are too many drops that most players aren't interested in. Even if the dungeons weren't linear, most people wouldn't visit off path areas since the treasure isn't worth it.
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11-05-2014, 02:38 AMFelis
A dungeon with a path design like the paths in the Gridania housing area would be cool ^^
And about people only use the direct way to boss, it can be make that they need keys to open doors and the keys are in random side chests -
11-05-2014, 04:53 AMZarzakQuote:
Originally Posted by Musashidon
You should mention the gear being 30 ilvls behind current group content. Aka worthless to begin with. -
11-05-2014, 04:57 AMNyalia
Wait, there's gear in those dungeons? I thought there was just crafting mats and these tokens you desynth into rarer crafting mats. Who knew?
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11-05-2014, 06:24 AMTeryaaniWait...what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr0c3ss0r
No it's not. I could spend hours playing every day, never touching coil, and still not do all of the stuff I want to in this game. The developers seem to have a decent balance between raiding/casual and have loads of fun-and-frivolous content and vanity in each patch along with the new raid tier.
Edit: I see you're complaining that BIS only comes from coil, missed that bit. From what I can tell, it doesn't. BIS is usually a mix of token and raid drops.
Dungeon gear shouldn't be competitive with current tier raid gear. It's meant to be used as a stepping stone/gearing up alts/filler gear/glamour. The path should be AF/Crafted > Dungeon > CT/ST > Coil. Not Dungeon > Stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarzak
My reaction too. Seeing entire runs where just crafting mats drop is lame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
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11-05-2014, 06:30 AMZarzakYou are 100000000000000000000000000x correct. I can't express my agreement. But sadly that isn't reality and they pander to the lowest common denominator instead of the loyal players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
it shouldn't group gear SHOULD be around ilvl 70 right now. To actually promote healthy raid progression.
The sad dark fact is group gear is ilvl 120. (poetic is a currency farmed via group content.. thus group gear)
No your right. Just crafting mats and better crafting mats because they provide desynth skill also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
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11-05-2014, 06:40 AMTeryaaniYeah, It's a takeaway from the WoW model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarzak
WoW
* Run dungeon x until eyes bleed and you cap valor for the week.
* Buy valor piece and discard the crap you got from the dungeon
* Run LFR of current raid for a chance at a drop.
* If you're lucky with a static, run current, or nearly current raid.
FF
* Run dungeon until eyes bleed and you cap poetics for the week
* Buy poetic piece and desynth or turn the crap from the dungeon in for seals
* Run ST for a chance at a drop.
* If you're lucky with a static, run current or nearly current coil turn.
Unless it's pretty (And this is just myth gear...so it's not), dungeon gear is discarded and forgotten. -
11-05-2014, 07:24 AMLemuria
Dungeon drops have always universally sucked. I honestly don't understand their mentality when it comes to adding items and removing old ones. They nuked Darklight and dumped it unceremoniously into dungeons as a random drop that no one wants any more, because those same dungeons gave level 90 gear via tomes. Now they've repeated their idiotic mistake and rendered lvl 90 gear nearly worthless, since the only jobs you'll be running the dungeons it drops on are jobs which already have it or better!
In addition, they've made soldiery tomes so pitifully slow to earn compared to old Mythology tomes that new starters are getting totally screwed over. Wanderer's Palace gives 10 tomes for goodness sake! Lately I've been staring at the Calendar double checking it isn't April Fools day, given how ridiculous this recent change was. -
11-05-2014, 07:31 AMTeryaaniThis threw me a bit when I saw it too. I get that they'll ramp it up in 2.5, but the grind to get soldiery is really awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
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11-05-2014, 07:31 AMserafI'm actually surprised Myth gear is even the loot for the new Dungeons. I'd expect most people to already be iLv.90-100 due to how easy Soldiery is to get now and with all the iLv.100 gear that drops from ST with no cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr0c3ss0r