[Spoilers Don't Hover] Friend Mentioned to me how X Job should or could be re-worked.

The story mentions how Ice Heart wields the power of the Echo, and how the Echo allowed her to retain consciousness while embodying the primal Shiva.

Wouldn't it be cool if Summoners instead transformed into Demi-Primals and gained new skill sets for each? (Let's be honest the Egis are real dumb.)

It sounds like what Ice Heart did is what Summoners in theory should be doing; channeling the power of the Echo to wield the power of a Primal.

Except that's exactly the type of thing the Scions are trying to prevent from happening? It also required a mass amount of crystals.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Except that's exactly the type of thing the Scions are trying to prevent from happening? It also required a mass amount of crystals.

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I feel like it would be different if a Hero is wielding the power rather than an enemy though. If the Echo allows them to retain their will, then why would it be bad?

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

I feel like it would be different if a Hero is wielding the power rather than an enemy though. If the Echo allows them to retain their will, then why would it be bad?

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Who knows to what degree you actually retain your will, though? We don't know Iceheart well enough to say.

Basically, this would move you from the "ally" category to the "potential threat" category so fast your head would spin.

I feel this is a nice idea for the class druid. The Druid become mobs then they make a job that allow them to become Demi-Primals. Also about the mass amount of crystals part remember that us adventurers have more aether. then normal NPC which is the reason we allow to teleport more often and even allow us to summon a % of a primal that we can control.

So making a job that allow you to take form of a primal should not be that hard. You wont look no where near as ice heart. But you take some look of the primal you becoming like ifrit you turn red have claws and unlock it's own spells just like SMN have new spell for each of there summons.

This wont break the game or the storyline. Becuase if becoming a primal is really that bad then what make SMN we summon a primal using our own Aether to control a small % of a full primal. So ya i love if they make a job that you can become a primal.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Except that's exactly the type of thing the Scions are trying to prevent from happening? It also required a mass amount of crystals.

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I'm sure you could forego that by using an improved white auracite. Maybe trap the soul of an Ascian and use it as a permanent power source.

And +1

I support the OP's idea. Perhaps this is Yoshi's way of sneaking Evolve into the game.

For SMN, no, just no. Not only would it completely go against the entire lore of the Job (who were Allagan mages that learned to bind a fraction of a Primal's essence to them which they then evoked as an 'egi' form), simple common sense would dictate that it would completely unbalance the whole battle system (to the point it would break the game with a ridiculously overpowered supersayian character that would result in a inevitable nerf, and SE being bombarded with players complaining endlessly about it). Really, it just opens up a whole new can of worms that I don't think SE are willing to bother with.

Considering back through the FF series characters that transform into another form are usually depicted as either a) antagonists who went insane from the transformation (Cid in FFXIII), or, if a protagonist, barely able to contain and control those powers, to the point they're forced to virtually never use them except in rare emergencies (Terra in FFVI, Vincent in FFVII), making the whole idea moot.

Really, this whole idea that SMN is somehow 'broken' and needs to be remade as something else is quite frankly ludicrious. SMN isn't changing, it works very well for what it is, SE has made that quite clear, so I don't think these sorts of threads are going to really get anywhere.

...Can we please let the SMN threads die?
These are getting repetitive and boring.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

This wont break the game or the storyline.

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Does no one remember why we are killing these things on a regular basis?

Allowing a Primal to exist on the material plane requires a large amount of Aether, Eorzea's life energy. And, as a few people have said in this thread, Transforming into a Primal while living in a country that fears and hates them, also being part of an organisation that is about "Ending the Primal threat on Eorzea" might raise a few eyebrows. That's not even going into the Garleans. Alphanaud Mentioned if the Garleans found out that if, not only the Beast tribes, the peoples of Eorzea could not only Summon the Primals but become their living vessels? It'll be all the excuse the empire needs for waging a full on Genocide campaign on all of Eorzea.

Food for thought.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

...Can we please let the SMN threads die?
These are getting repetitive and boring.

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This.

Though the thing with Shiva is more than likely the way they'll implement FC summoning. Just using some sort of caveat to make it temporary.

i do agree the egis are really stupid the summon really dosnt feel like a real summon as it is with the egis is a insult to all the other summoners in final fantasys ^_^

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Originally Posted by Razard

Does no one remember why we are killing these things on a regular basis?

Allowing a Primal to exist on the material plane requires a large amount of Aether, Eorzea's life energy. And, as a few people have said in this thread, Transforming into a Primal while living in a country that fears and hates them, also being part of an organisation that is about "Ending the Primal threat on Eorzea" might raise a few eyebrows. That's not even going into the Garleans. Alphanaud Mentioned if the Garleans found out that if, not only the Beast tribes, the peoples of Eorzea could not only Summon the Primals but become their living vessels? It'll be all the excuse the empire needs for waging a full on Genocide campaign on all of Eorzea.

Food for thought.

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Did you keep forgetting that SMN use Aether to summon a % of a primal? I'm not saying you become a full primal you only take the form of them. You get claws you turn the color of the primal and you use there spells. That is all and if oyu think becoming a primal is a big fear then people of eorzea should fear my SMN. Seeing how i use my own Aether to summon a small % of a primal from the Aetherstream under my control.

So becoming a primal would have the same % of power as a SMN summon there own primal it just this job somewhat look like the primal. They still look like a person just look a little like a primal claws maybe and so on

Egis are sustained by the SMN's lifeforce, not the planet's. Primals use the energy and aether of several living beings, crystals and the planet itself. This is why we kill them

It's pretty much Eorzea's Nano-machines. :b

This ain't happening. Too much lore breaking and balance issues to deal with.

Not so much as Iceheart but you could probably have some sort of aether wielding tranforming class, since of course complete copy of Iceheart would be counter productive xD (story reasons, should be partial/non complete transformations or another power source).

I'd like to see a Druid/Harmonixer like class at some point~

Summoner is already developed and liked enough you'd get a lot of rancor if radically changing it. Just hope the egis look better sometime in the future, level 70 egi upgrade please look forward to it? lol

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Egis are sustained by the SMN's lifeforce, not the planet's. Primals use the energy and aether of several living beings, crystals and the planet itself. This is why we kill them

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Ya and people here keep thinking the idea of this job is you become a full primal like ice heart. You be no where near that level of power it just be like the Egis. You use your own lifeforce and take the appearance of said primal.

But like always people jump into conclusion without even listening to the idea. They just say no way can't happen it break the game wont fit with story blah blah blah. But it fit with the story seeing how Ice heart can do it with using crystal and summon and control a full primal under her control. It's not hard to believe you can take the appearance of the primal using your own lifeforce.

The way we summon the egis is the same way the beastmen summon there primal. We use our own Aether within ourself to control and sustain there physical form.While the beastmen use crystal and worships them to allow them to keep there physical forms. So this new job it could easy use our own Aether and sustain and control a primal to take the appearance of a primal.

Also by appearance i mean you still look like your Race you just take a few characteristics of the primal you take form of. Ifrit you have claws you turn red then you have access to said primal spells just like SMN get access to there egis primal spells.

It's a very simple job but like always people would jump into conclusion and you can't never have a mature conversation. because people would overreact over anything because they don't want to see it happen or they think it would fit with the lore.

Just like the DRG having a wyvern as a pet topic and how i said you could make a 2# job within the lancer that get access to a Wyvern. But like always they overreact and said it wont make any sense because the lore ishgard kill dragons blah blah. But if you know history and if you know how people are they always two side of a coin and they be people within the city that would say you know this is mess up. They go off find dragons/Wyverns and try to befriend them from baby and make there own DRG job with the power to summon a wyvern or dragon.

Anyways i know it wont happen because it's how yoshi-p want this game to turn out. In final fantasy overall lore they never been a job that can become mob like druid "That i know of". But people don't have to jump into a 100% hell no it wont happen conversation this is a forums let's have a discussion. Let's not make it like other topic about two party one saying no and one saying yes and the people saying yes actually giving information how they could be done and very little of people that say no giving anything but hell no as there answer to everything.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

But like always people jump into conclusion without even listening to the idea. They just say no way can't happen it break the game wont fit with story blah blah blah. But it fit with the story seeing how Ice heart can do it with using crystal and summon and control a full primal under her control. It's not hard to believe you can take the appearance of the primal using your own lifeforce.

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Did you just skip over the part of the storyline where it states that Iceheart's heretics stole a truckload of crystals ?

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Did you just skip over the part of the storyline where it states that Iceheart's heretics stole a truckload of crystals ?

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Did you just skip what you just quote yourself? "Seeing how ice heart can do it with using crystal and control a full primal under her control"

"ONCE AGAIN" I don't care if they add this or not i'm just giving you a example how this could work within the lore of FFXIV. You using your own Aether to control a small % of a primal to take the Appearance of the primal you wont look no where near like the primal themself. Like ifrit you have horns you have his claws and glow a little red. You still look like yourself but you have characteristics of the primal and can use some of there spell. Just like how SMN can summon a % of primal using there own Aether and can control and use there some of there spells.

SMN: Summon a % of a primal to use in battle using there own Aether.
???: Use there own Aether to summon and take the appearance of a primal to use there skill and spell in battle.

Once Again! you look like yourself you just get some characteristics of the primal. Due to the fact that you not strong enough to nce againcontrol a full blown primal like ice heart and that should never be done due to how dangerous it be for the primal to take over. So if you turn into garuda you get claws and wing if you turn into titan your skin look like rocks and so on.

This is becoming like lancer having a second job that can summon there own wyvern topic again and at least in that one yoshi-p said that they can really do something like that. But still people thought it could not be done and they don't want to have there DRG without a pet mess up even tho it's part of it own job stone lol.


Man it's really hard to have a decent conversation on here without people just jumping into there own conclusion ;( i wish i speak Japanese or something maybe there topic are better.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

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Impossible due to the amount of Aether needed to reach said level would inflict Aether poisoning. Again, it doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Impossible due to the amount of Aether needed to reach said level would inflict Aether poisoning. Again, it doesn't work.

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wow you most know a lot about aether and how much a player have vs a NPC. Anyways you win bro now go play elsewhere and troll other topic.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

wow you most know a lot about aether and how much a player have vs a NPC. Anyways you win bro now go play elsewhere and troll other topic.

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Have fun reading:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Aether

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Have fun reading:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Aether

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Yes ok once again what does that have to do with what i said? Or you did not read anything? you only take the characteristics of the primal due to the limit amount of Aether you have. Just like a SMN use it's Aether to summon a % of a primal and have it under it control. This job would just summon the primal and take characteristics of the primal. Like you use click ifrit and you get horns,claws and get use to the spell of ifrit. You still look like your race you just take in some characteristics due to the amount of Aether you have. You never be at the same level of ice heart and at the end who want too if there a chance of a primal taking you over.

At the end it's the same thing as SMN it's just one summon and the other take some characteristics of the primal they summon.

But i guess that too hard for people to understand.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Impossible due to the amount of Aether needed to reach said level would inflict Aether poisoning. Again, it doesn't work.

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Personally I would be more worried about damaging Hydalen but don't you think resistance to aether poisoning can be lore'd and even gameplay'd around?

It'd just be a 'nearly every main character in FF7' backdrop anyways. Or FFXI bluemage, i'd like a dark side class anyways (like FFXI blu).

Of course going full/100% primal would both be game breaking and illogical, hitting a level lower than that shouldn't be a major issue - imo.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Personally I would be more worried about damaging Hydalen but certainly dont you think resistance to aether poisoning can be lore'd and even gameplay'd around?

It'd just be a 'nearly ever main character in FF7' backdrop anyways. Or FFXI bluemage, i'd like a dark side class anyways (like FFXI blu).

Of course going full/100% primal would both be game breaking and illogical, hitting a level lower than that shouldn't be a major issue - imo.

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Thank you someone who get it also we already doing this with SMN who summon a % of a primal. But no one really worry about how us players can summon a primal due to the fact we using our own aether. It be the same thing for this primal we using our own aether not the world aether.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Personally I would be more worried about damaging Hydalen but certainly dont you think resistance to aether poisoning can be lore'd and even gameplay'd around?

It'd just be a 'nearly ever main character in FF7' backdrop anyways. Or FFXI bluemage, i'd like a dark side class anyways (like FFXI blu).

Of course going full/100% primal would both be game breaking and illogical, hitting a level lower than that shouldn't be a major issue - imo.

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We already have basic resistance to Aether poisoning. That's what enables us to fight the Primals, do instances like Thousand Maws and use Aetheryte to teleport around.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Thank you someone who get it also we already doing this with SMN who summon a % of a primal. But no one really worry about how us players can summon a primal due to the fact we using our own aether. It be the same thing for this primal we using our own aether not the world aether.

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Agrees with me = get it. Disagrees with me =doesn't get it. Sound logic there buddy.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Except that's exactly the type of thing the Scions are trying to prevent from happening? It also required a mass amount of crystals.

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But we have one giant crystal that we float around, i'm sure Hydelaen (sp) would grant us some of her power :D

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

The story mentions how Ice Heart wields the power of the Echo, and how the Echo allowed her to retain consciousness while embodying the primal Shiva.
Wouldn't it be cool if Summoners instead transformed into Demi-Primals and gained new skill sets for each

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Sir,you suddenly let the idea in my head flows .. I think about new tank job base on arcanist.
Once arcanist reach lv30 this new job is tank role which allows arcanist to "channel" with power of the primal to increase physical,magic defense or hp etc.
Obviously that arcanist isn't become big primal but just in normal form with Auras around him and of course the primals which allow to channel is ifrit,titan and garuda.titan is good for mt,ifrit is good for dps and garuda's channelling is for debuffs(lower enemies str,def,bla bla bla)
Don't know what word to call this job though,SHAMAN ? Maybe.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Man it's really hard to have a decent conversation on here without people just jumping into there own conclusion ;( i wish i speak Japanese or something maybe there topic are better.

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I'll let you know the Japanese really don't care about the summoner-egi issue that seems to only plague the English forums. You could speak Japanese to them and you'll find very little response to your hopes.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Personally I would be more worried about damaging Hydalen but don't you think resistance to aether poisoning can be lore'd and even gameplay'd around?

It'd just be a 'nearly every main character in FF7' backdrop anyways. Or FFXI bluemage, i'd like a dark side class anyways (like FFXI blu).

Of course going full/100% primal would both be game breaking and illogical, hitting a level lower than that shouldn't be a major issue - imo.

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Didn't that guy who tried to get Belias lose his mind? And only get the same egi like Ifrit but palette swapped? I think we're overestimating how much of a primal's power our Summoner can handle.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I'll let you know the Japanese really don't care about the summoner-egi issue that seems to only plague the English forums. You could speak Japanese to them and you'll find very little response to your hopes.

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I not talking about the smn egi issue here also i'm talking about overall just have a conversation about new jobs that could happen in ffxiv.

Considering the Limit Breaks are being reworked to be class specific in terms of animations, what the OP suggests may actually be what will occur when Summoner's use the Limit Break once the changes are implemented, and now we actually have lore behind such a thing being done in game.

(also perhaps could be setting up lore for that long ago talked about FC Primal Summons)

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Originally Posted by Ecks007

Considering the Limit Breaks are being reworked to be class specific in terms of animations, what the OP suggests may actually be what will occur when Summoner's use the Limit Break once the changes are implemented, and now we actually have lore behind such a thing being done in game.

(also perhaps could be setting up lore for that long ago talked about FC Primal Summons)

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It seem like the FC Primal Summon not happening they have not talk about it in a while. It was going to be release for 2.4 or late 2.5 but i guess we have to see if they ended up saying nvm on that idea. I hop that because it was a fun idea even it's really make no sense less in fact then a Job that can take the look of a primal lmao.