Issue with players stealing from Company Chests...

I'd like to thank GM Kroyipi for responding so quickly and compassionately about the matter of our FC chest getting intentionally raided by a player who had asked us before hand what would happen if he did so. Then did so anyway.....

The issues is being handled, thankyou SE for responding and GM Kroyipi for being very respectful and precise about the issue.

I'd like to make a suggestion regarding the gameplay interface for FC chests. We understand we can block all items for lower ranks, but this doesn't suit us because we enjoy helping new players and many of the items in there are to specifically help new players who need gear. We don't not want to block all access for these players. However we considered it would be a good thing if SE was to add an option for blocking the AMOUNTS of items each day a player from each rank can remove from the chest. This would help the issue of players contiously stealing from Free Company Chests while still being able to keep the items open to players who actually need/use them. We are just suggesting being able to control putting a "limit" on the amount of items withdrawn at one time/per day so these raids cannot happen in the future. Like an option that the lowest rank can only remove *5* items per day would do the trick, we could adjust the settings therefore large amounts of items could not be stolen before leaders would realize what is going on and prevent this issue from continuously happening. Thanks!;)

Is..the GM doing something about this? I am genuinely curious, because a while back on Hyperion there was a certain person who was jumping between FCs raiding as much of their chests as he could then leaving right away within minutes. We were told by GMs at the time that there was absolutely nothing that could be done, as the player, while being a jerk, hadnt broken any rules.

I like the idea of putting a limit on how much is removed. I dont like having to stop members from withdrawing anything at all, and its rough keeping track of which rank has access to which tab along with making sure people arent putting things in the wrong tabs.

I could lock my door, but I enjoy spending my time away allowing smelly homeless ax murderers to rummage through my knick-knacks and peruse my secret hiding spaces.


I would also love to know what the GM did/is doing.

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Originally Posted by Dijana

Is..the GM doing something about this? .

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not afaik, you can report this as grief but GM will not do something about this case as they will not involve to much into player play style, so player will have to deal with this issue themself.

And this is why FC leaders need to learn to LOCK the FC chest 2 and 3 for those who are rank below 5.
Also Chest 1 is always full of junks

there is no reason at any point of time that all members need vault access.

how can you say that someone stole material when in the first place you AUTHORIZED him to access the safe ????

unless he did use some alternate program that bypassed the block??

If that is not the case, I am sorry, there is only you to blame for such.

I dont agree with this that I find dubious but you took your chance you place your trust into someone and allowed him/her something, responsability is on you. This way of not accepting your responsabilities is kind of weird, next time you will pay more attention.

Not everybody is honest or has some code or maturity. Now, if someone wasnt allowed and did it, as in NOT having the permission on the safe to do that, then is anotehr story, other then this, your complain is just plain out of place.

Mei

I do think that we need more tabs in the FC chests so that we have more space to store items that should be freely used by anyone while still having space for items that are designated only to trust members. This is how I would set up my FC if I had more than a few members.
I'd say 6 tabs would be a good start. 2 tabs for junk/lowbie stuff, 2 tabs for gear/common crafting mats/materias and 2 tabs designated solely to trusted members only. Just my opinion, but I can dream XD

I think more security features associated with the FC Chest is never a bad thing. More options, more flexibility, allows a bit more micro-management. Nothing wrong with the suggestion. So please, those that are jumping on the OP saying it's his/her fault need to back off. Regardless if it is or is not, he/she and the rest of their FC members are the victims. Lets not make it worse, okay?

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

how can you say that someone stole material when in the first place you AUTHORIZED him to access the safe ????

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Well, lets be fair here. I could join an FC, behave in such a way as to generate a lot of trust and good will from the leaders, then as soon as i have bank access, loot it for all its worth and run away.
THAT is griefing. That is joining an FC with the express intent to work up to a point that I'm trusted with bank access so as to steal from them.

Its the same as befriending someone with he sole intent of learning what valuables they have so i can steal it when they're not looking.

The only thing I would suggest is a viewable log of who interacted with the Company Chest, what was changed, and when it happened.

People are far too trusting of others. My FC already does what LunarCain suggested, and despite giving a heck of a lot of time and resources to my FC over the span of several months, I'm still only Rank 3 member and only have access to the first section of the company chest. I'm fine with that. It gets annoying, because the first section of the company chest is actually always full rather than always empty, and none of it is stuff I overly care about and don't feel like plundering like an asshole.

They could just do with Managerial Options for each tab, solely controlled by the FC Leader. Like Tab 1 full access, tab 2 limited amounts, tab 3 for officers and leader used. Freely edited to suit the FC's needs.

withdrawal applying system

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Originally Posted by chocomaid

They could just do with Managerial Options for each tab, solely controlled by the FC Leader. Like Tab 1 full access, tab 2 limited amounts, tab 3 for officers and leader used. Freely edited to suit the FC's needs.

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I may be misunderstanding, but this is already in game. Every FC rank has coffer tab permissions. Our lowest rank can only access tab 1, full members can access tab 2, officers only can access tab 3. Officers move a low amount of certain items out of tab 3 to another tab as these items are used by members (dye fruit, for example.)

Part of the problem is the VERY limited space the coffer has. At this point, we hardly keep anything in there. >< If anyone needs something, they ask on chat and someone who can help gets back to them. (ex.: "Aw crap, I'm out of alumen. Anyone have a couple I could have, please?")

I guess... also, don't keep any valuable things in the coffer? If someone runs off with a HQ vintage picatrix or stack of walnut lumber (for example) it's not the end of the world. Also, make your FC gil deposit only. If folks are nice enough to donate to the FC, make it damn clear it's a one-way thing and is to be used for large FC purchases only (house, krakka seeds, etc.)

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

how can you say that someone stole material when in the first place you AUTHORIZED him to access the safe ???? ...

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We don't have enough permissions to block certain groups out without punishing the whole, so yeah we have to authorize it b/c of the system in place. The permissions on that FC bank are really lacking. There needs to be an item limit for daily lockouts. I completely agree with the OP.

I have a similar fear, however I do tell everyone that whatever you put in the bank is community property just in case that does happen in the future. Hopefully, it doesn't. Either way, we need more permission options on the FC bank.

I had issues with this (not in FF14, in GW2) and basically people would raid the guild chest then leave.

One way to get around this (I found) because the GMs didn't do anything about it was to lock off all chests to everyone in a "recruit" rank. Basically the rank you automatically go into when you join and then after a while if the member was genuinely nice etc etc I would promote them to member and they could use all but one of the bank slots. The last bank slot was only open to high ranking members, anyone could deposit but only high ranks could withdraw, let people store their valuables (money was also locked off to anyone below the higher ranks).

Don't know how much you can manage with the FC chest but it might be an idea to essentially not let people use the chest under deemed trustworthy. I think there is a log for the FC chest to look at withdraws and deposits. If people do steal just note their name and report, not much you can do past that point :/

The setup I have is this:

When a new member joins, they are a newbie status by default. After 15 days of being a FC member, I rank them up to a permanent status, which then allows them to withdraw from the first section of the Company Chest. Seems to work okay. =P Keeps the tomb raiders out quite nicely.

Or... if a newbie asks to receive a specific item from the chest, I'll take it out for them.

You got to test and see the new members and see how they will behave. There is no setting that any developer can create that will say allow some taking of stuff but not too much. What is too much, who decides too much. You can set caps, and if people always took the cap, the chest will be empty very quickly. And people also use the chest as a big dumping ground. People put stuff like iron ore, cotton cloth, rock salt, etc. in there totally ignoring the fact that the supplier is standing right next to it in the FC house sell all that stuff for next to nothing. There are tools in system to help with issue like these, but there is no system in the world, real life, game or otherwise that can handle all the issue people create.

Remember there are many ranks in the FC. Create a rank that equals "time out" or "penalty box" with 0 access to anything. Have the "newbie" rank given to all member have access only to 1 page of the chest and then more access progressively. But this requires attentive FC leadership and people need to speak up if they want to be promoted to get more access.

either ways...it remains on the boss of the FC who you give permission to and if someone takes everything once you have given permission is on you, there is no stealing sorry, I am not saying is right to do so, but you gave the authorization to do it, how can you say is stealing ? is beyond me.

This comes down to responsability, you made a choice to give access from there you assume the consequences of it, ntos ure why you would go about calling someone a thief when is not the case.

Mei

Considering you can set EACH drawer of the company chest to be accessible to different ranks, and you can customize ranks however you want, I really don't see how it is an issue at all. Keep new players restricted to the junk chest. Have someone keep it clean (or invite a thief to the fc) so only relevant junk is in there. Store your valuable items in the other chest drawers. Make a special drawer just for the FC gardeners, so that soil and seeds aren't being stolen. Make the other drawer for crafting matts if you happen to have a lot of crafters who share materials.

I will say that the company chest could use more drawers, though. It's hard with only 3 small drawers to keep enough room for communal junk, seeds, and storage for all the furnishings retainers bring from quick ventures.

Where is this thief? I'd like to invite them to my Free Company for a day so they can clean out the chest for me. It's a mess and I don't want to do it. (Take the 18 mariner cloth and put them to good use, please.)

:3

Also: never allow all members access to your gil coffer unless you plan on it being forever empty.

Limiting the amount players can withdraw might be a good idea but ONLY if it is customizable, fully. The reason I say this is because some smart-arse might decide to fill your entire chest with stacks of 99 zucchini or something like that. It would be a pain to clean all that out if there was some blanket forced limit on how much and what can be withdrawn.

I've always been the main person in my FC who cleans out the "junk" in the chest. Sometimes, members will really dump a lot of junk in there and sometimes I wonder if they're just being lazy or if they really think they're being helpful. We've never had issues with people ACTUALLY stealing things, and we've always kept the valuables locked up. Most of our members are actually afraid to take from the shared drawers, even though we tell every new person to take whatever they want/need. The only actual "theft" issues we've had were misunderstandings which were dealt with.

If you leave your front door wide open and everyone can see your TV in your living room window, do you really expect it to stay put?

If I was an FC leader, I would have the lowest FC rank, which all new members go in at first, this has deposit only permissions on all the boxes. Members would be in this probation rank for one month (that way if anyone was joining to steal from the chest it would not be worth sticking around). After this month the player would be moved into the next rank with withdraw settings on one box, the other two deposit only (for things that the FC might need, like housing items and gardening ones.) I would also make sure all members knew that if they needed anything from the two locked boxes they could always ask the leader or an officer for a specific item and they could make a judgement call on whether to allow them to have the item and just trade or send mail.

This allows everyone to access items they need, and prevents abuse. You could even further add to the security by having an online log of everyone who has requested an item from a locked box which all the officers and the leader have access to and always review, any patterns would be evident.

I'd never say no to more permissions customization, so yeah I'm for it. Also I like the idea of another drawer or two. It would make managing ranks and permissions much easier.

As it is, in my FC, new and regular members only have access to the first drawer. If someone came in and took everything, yeah I'd be pissed, but nothing of real value would be lost. I could replace most of it easily enough. I wish I had at least one more drawer though so I could sort of have different "tiers" of items and give access (via rank) as people prove trustworthiness/loyalty. I have a small FC and our drawers are pretty full (though not entirely). I can't imagine how an FC with 100+ members has enough room to store/share items with everyone.

Our FC chest has limited access to most members with select people that have access, if our lower members see something they need they have been instructed to contact a chest master for withdrawal of said items.

I feel more concerned for chest logs than permissions. If someone will have fun making 200 donations of 1 Gil, he will clear all logs and I cannot tell who donated how much and when, because of it. Yes I can remove him permissions, but the damage is already done.

Nobody stole anything. A player took items from a source he was allowed to take from. Now, it might be one of your FC's rules to not take everything from the chest, so you have every right to remove him from your FC, but those items are his. This is something that could have been avoided completely with rank restrictions. If you as an FC leader only want players to get a certain amount of items a day, then you should only make a certain amount available a day. SE has no responsibility to fix this for you, and in fact it wouldn't be fair since they've refused to do it in the past.

This whole thing could have been prevented by a small amount of foresight and a very tiny bit of effort.

Only allow regular members access to one or two tabs. Put items you wont mind losing in those tabs. If someone takes everything from them, even after you asked them not to, kick them. This way you wont be as upset since nothing special was taken.

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Originally Posted by Zelth

This whole thing could have been prevented by a small amount of foresight and a very tiny bit of effort.

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Not necessarily "prevented" but perhaps "contained". OP didn't say how long the person in question was with the FC or what rank they were, etc.

There has to be a balance between restricting/preventing "thieves"/trolls/whatever, and not having it impact members. I want to reward and help my members while at the same time not have me or the FC be taken advantage of, so it really just takes finding a middle ground.

Our FC is very open. When someone joins we don't allow them gardening, housing, or chest permissions. We keep them there for a week or so, judging case by case. Then we give them access to most things. We've never had an issue. I think it's the culture we've developed in the FC. Well, we had one issue, which ironically from an officer who would have had full permission anyway.

We give a rank with chest access only to members that have done a certain Gil donations to chest. Most likely when ninjas-wanna-be realize that, they will leave the FC to search another one.

when comes to the chest work it to the needs of guild is. Like if need need cafting items in one chest that one thing keep to that area gaedener can be other or gruoped by as is the need.

parthine the spots how the how head what it to be like.have meeting fro everone can help in info, thing grow and chage as seen with my guild as well

cafting / gaerdning try keep speart

high end items/ or commmon items/ per reiic's sort of dill

crystal kind light and trouchy for some people I tend keep them for cafters kowned or trusted to us.

gil wis i say naver realy keep it on thare unless lockto guild master for guild housing other then that i say. lock that off. or if some need be more do a trade can just good in some cases.

Those who say it's not stealing... (here comes the analogy)

So you have a job as a cashier, which means the owner gave you access to money and products that aren't yours, are you saying it's fine to steal anything you see in the cash register just because they gave you access to it? How do you see having access to something equal to "it has my name on it, I will take it".

Stop with the absurd victim blaming already.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Those who say it's not stealing... (here comes the analogy)

So you have a job as a cashier, which means the owner gave you access to money and products that aren't yours, are you saying it's fine to steal anything you see in the cash register just because they gave you access to it? How do you see having access to something equal to "it has my name on it, I will take it".

Stop with the absurd victim blaming already.

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It's a bad analogy. A cashier isn't allowed to take money from the drawer for their own personal use. Yes, that would be stealing. In this case, members are ALLOWED to take things out to use for their own use. Whether or not I would call someone cleaning out the chest stealing, idk. It's on the line imo.

As for the other thing, I'm not even touching that...

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

We give a rank with chest access only to members that have done a certain Gil donations to chest. Most likely when ninjas-wanna-be realize that, they will leave the FC to search another one.

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This is a pretty good idea too. Do you also heavily restrict who has access to withdrawing gil? I would imagine so...

I think the problem here is that some people will join a FC with the express purpose of building some level of trust (I seem to remember someone writing about a member going so far as to be trusted over time and become an officer before taking everything) and then taking stuff from the FC and leaving. Then, they will go and do this to other FCs. We don't have any way to stop these people (due to SE saying it's a FC matter and won't ban them) besides word of mouth. :( I see it as harassment/griefing.

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Originally Posted by SalemP

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The cashier is allowed to take money out of the machine to do his job. What he does with that money is something else. I'd also agree with the poor analogy because of the context we have with the current allowances for the chest.

The intent of the OP is to get more options/enforcement on how much someone can withdraw from a tab. I have tab 1 as the whole low level foods, consumables and crafting materials for our lowbie members, but there's absolutely no way for us to stop them from ransacking the entire tab 1. It's either view only, deposit only, or full access; there's no middle ground to any of that.

I'd rather us be able to adjust how many they can withdraw within a day, instead of going to the trouble of them having to send us a request to withdraw it for them....that itself is incredibly limited too because we we have no means of communication or bullitin board posts ingame aside from personal messages or the login greeting.

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Originally Posted by Sadana

This is a pretty good idea too. Do you also heavily restrict who has access to withdrawing gil? I would imagine so...

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I heavily restrict my FC gil. Only me (master) and the second have access to take any out. Besides the obv reasons, we also did that so members felt it was safe to donate bc random people couldn't just take it out. Even the captains/officers do not have access to it. The only issue I have personally with LalaRu's thing is I don't want members to feel obligated to give gil or anything else. Or have it feel like people have to "buy" memberships. That's just a personal preference though.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

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The analogy wasn't meant to cover the withdraw limits, just a reply to those people who are jumping with "you allowed them to do it".

I do agree with implementing withdraw limits, another game I used to play had this, ranks could be set with limits between 0, 10, 50, 200 or unlimited draws.

As an FC you need to be willing give people the benefit of the doubt. You got let people demonstrate that they are honorable. If stuff is always locked and constrained to the max, you will never know the true color of the players. You need to be willing risk some stuff to see how they behave. Severly limit access to the stuff that you can't afford to lose, but with the other stuff be generous and see how people behave.

Have we had people take a bunch of shards and run off, yes. But we also had people who after the got their ranks demoted because of unexplained withdrawals wait a few weeks to talk to us and then explain the situation. And in response they went gathered the shards to replenish what they took, and had their ranks restored. And in the process you learn how people behave and react and become more valuable members of the FC.

I'm shocked at the amount of victim blaming going on.
Wtf mates?

The OP let someone into their FC out of good will. That person took that goodwill and trust and betrayed them.
There is a limit to how much a person can take before it becomes outright thievery, even if that person has "permission".
Yes, the FC chest has certain permissions but it doesn't matter if it was page1 or all three pages that got cleaned out.
Stealing is still stealing.
Stealing is still wrong.
The person who should be blamed is the thief.

My guess is that many of you feel secure that this would never happen to you.
If it did happen then you may be more sympathetic.
I sincerely hope that none of you get cleaned out like that. It is a terrible feeling to have.

OP, my FC is fairly laid back but after someone also cleaned us out not too long ago. Thankfully, we didn't have too much valuables stolen.
Regardless, I had no choice but to limit the access to the chest.
While it isn't my way of handling things I had to think of the other people in the FC and make the choice based on that.
It wouldn't be fair to my fc mates if I didn't take these precautionary measures.