MRD Maimed by 1.18a

It appears that MRD has been once again "exposed" by another patch.

But before I go down this familiar path of class ranting, let me talk about some positive changes that are happening in 1.18a.

Congrats to PUG for getting almost all their abilities enhanced for greater damage.
I can see Seismic Shock has a really nice DPS ability now as long as the PUG is able to keep their MP up. The reaction abilities of PUG are getting stronger and stronger, which can make them more of a viable DPS/Evasion tank.

Already being a top tier DD, the LNC gets another boost to their already top notch deadly weapons skills like Doomspike and Chaos Thrust. And now with Feint being even stronger than before, hit or miss it's still a win win for LNC.

I'll be fair and point out that my favorite LNC weapon skills did not get a boost; Twisting Vice, Leg Sweep, and Heavy Trammel.


Now let's take a look at what treasures were bestowed upon the mighty MRD.
Skull Sunder, our main DPS WS received a boost.....oh wait, no it didn't. It got left to the wayside just like the MRD class as a whole gets treated. But hold on, PUG got 2 of their reaction abilities powered up, that would mean Fracture should get tweaked as well right? Negative ghostrider, it remains as is.

So what did we get?
Well LNC got 5 abilities enhanced, and PUG came out nice with 6.
And for some reason MRD was given the least with a total of 4.
One of those 4 is Trunkspiltter, which is really great cause there are sooo many plant mobs in the game that no party would dare venture in Eorzea without a MRD in it.:rolleyes:

The other 3 abilities, Brutal Swing, Maim, and Storm's Path are cool, I can't really complain, but I'll try.
I thought I had found my purpose in life as a MRD once I got Maim. But then it was nerfed to oblivion. The nerf was done very early so many of you may not even be aware of it. It was around the time when the first 50's on the servers started happening. Before then if you landed Maim on a mob it was dead within seconds. Maim was so useful in killing mobs that most parties didn't even want you to use it for fear we wouldn't get enough SP off the mob(back when SP was random).
But the Maim we have currently pales in comparison. Honestly, I the difference in damage seems almost insignificant once the "exposed" effect is in and for 2000+ TP you really have to question if it was even worth it.

So I said all that to say, thanks for the boost in dmg on Maim, but really if I want to do more damage I'll stick with Skull Sunder spam. And for Storm's Path, since I'm going to be utilizing this skill constantly as a tank, anyway the extra damage now is a nice touch.

If the goal of 1.18a was to help melee with DPS since ARC is OP on dmg while being out of harm's way, why was MRD not really compensated?

Totally agree. At same time its noce improving these WS damages, the current "usable" WS from MRD are the only ones not enhanced...skull sunder and fracture. With the dead slow TP gain is just crazy they putting effort enhancing the WSs you actually will never use...1500 TP for storm path? 3000 for maim? They're myth now...if you use storm path you will be able to watch other DDS use 3+ WSs before you have TP again...and maim just never happen anymore.

At same time i do think its fair to have LNC as the best ingame DD (its a FF game afterall...all others than FFXI had lance users as the best DDs) and that is ey good for PGL, i really feel like it was just a joke what they did (again) to MRD.

dont worry the JPs are bitching up a storm about this so hopefully it will change......


On a side note SE is focusing far too much on making MAR a secondary tank w/ some of its abilities that its making the class a watered down dank class that doesnt shine in any role. Least warrior in ff11 had great tp attacks acc/attk boost and double attk to make up for slower attk and misses.

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

dont worry the JPs are bitching up a storm about this so hopefully it will change......

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I hope so, man! All battle team needs to do is balance basic actions' recast...once MRD once again have fully access to Heavy Swing and Broad/Full Swings it can start rolling again! Because the basic actions are the TP generator of MRD..different from PGL or LNC, heavy/broad/full swing are just as important to MRD as invigorate, feint and chaos thrust are to LNC or taunt, featherfoot and haymaker/jarring/simian are to PGL....and as important as multishot, trifurcate and light shot are to ARC...

MRD basic attacks are the heart of the class. I already even gave up suggesting them basic attacks rebalancing...i'm in a point where "begging" is the more correct term. I wish more people, instead of trying to adapt the gameplay to this DRK wannabe it became after 1.18, would raise their voices asking for bringing the original MRD back!

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

Least warrior in ff11 had great tp attacks acc/attk boost and double attk to make up for slower attk and misses.

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All is forgiven if SE gives MRD Double Attack.


Wait lemme think about that first.
Knowing SE they would probably make it a 5 min recast to effect your next attack....

Best case scenario SE would make it a R30 trait for Musketeer that other classes would be able to equip.

Double Attack trait to return, or Momentum?

Here's an idea:

Momentum: Passive trait that, as your character swings their axe, the force generated is utilised to move the axe around quicker for either quicker attacks (think: Self-haste that increases slowly the more you attack, dropping the attacks from 1 per 4 seconds to 1 per 3 second at max cap? Maybe slower/quicker depending on balance) or an additional attack if you miss (like Zanshin, SAM ability. Could have the name mixed up)

And TP gains to be adjusted would allow MRD to function better. What do you think?

Remember this?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Description

The marauder is a combat specialist whose weapon of choice is the greataxe -- a fearsome arm emblematic of Eorzea's pirates. Their approach to battle is one of brute force, relying on strength and steel to crush enemies and sunder weapons.

They are highly sought after for their ferocity and intimidating presence, and are often employed to hunt down monsters plaguing the land, or to turn the tide of battle between warring nations. Throwing axes such as the francisca supplement the marauder's arsenal, making them fearsome adversaries even at range.

While stationary, marauders are able to generate a solid base from which they are able to carry out devastating attacks.

The strength of marauders lies in their ability to control timing and distance to maximize the efficacy of their blows.
____________________________________________________________________________________


Yeah, made me think I was going to play a heavy DD too.....
From SE's description you don't really get the idea of the MRD being a tank or AoE melee class, but rather a peak dmg DPS class that can dish it out from up close or at range.

Well, double attack prolly won't fix MRD issues...even if its just like WAR double attack was. IMO if its meant to double attack then it should receive an action similar to multishot...so you charge, buff and unleash the multiple attacks of the kind you wanted.

lnc TOP NOTCH DD? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ok now that i'm done laughing, dds should at least live through weapon skilling and vit stacks low with lnc due to the archaic concept of their distance from the mob mattering which is doesn't. We have archer man, thats a top tier dd, because it does dmg and it is out of range. LNC and MRD are mid tier dds and pug is a off tank with dd capabilities. I mean we just barely have top tier dds, and this is the first of the balancing. Personally the problem with MRD and LNC imho isn't just their ws potency, they over all suck as classes, and maybe its the people playing them combined with what the devs think about the classes, meaning the players think one thing, and the devs think another, but they don't meet up because no one every said "i think this and you think that". We're still dealing with the devs view point of these classes, not ours, and ours is usually based on faulty ass information like the main ffxiv website that doesn't even ring true anymore.

You say this now...but after patch things might change. Right now no one knows how good the improvements will be...maybe they aren't even noticeable...but maybe they are. ARC never really was considered the best DD because it was out of melee range...it was just a temporary situation (hopefully) generated by 1.18. What made it the best DD does is its DPS, that still is the best one. But depending of how better LNC dmg become, it does might surpass ARC due WS frequency.

But who knows...only monday we will be able to discover if ARC keeps the crown or if it gonna change to LNC head.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

lnc TOP NOTCH DD? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ok now that i'm done laughing, dds should at least live through weapon skilling

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Not sure why you're so amused at me calling LNC top tier DD.
I'll try to keep from entertaining you and state some facts on LNC.

No class has haste except for LNC
No class has greater weapon damage than LNC
No class is able to generate TP faster than LNC
end facts, now my opinion
LNC has the best set of weapons skills
LNC Comrad in Arms increases total party damage more than any debuff

Here you have all the makings of a top tier DD, and the fact that you mentioned they don't have HP to take hits actually defeats your point. The best DDs most often are not able to take the repercussion of the damage they deal.

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

Not sure why you're so amused at me calling LNC top tier DD.
I'll try to keep from entertaining you and state some facts on LNC.

No class has haste except for LNC
No class has greater weapon damage than LNC
No class is able to generate TP faster than LNC
end facts, now my opinion
LNC has the best set of weapons skills
LNC Comrad in Arms increases total party damage more than any debuff

Here you have all the makings of a top tier DD, and the fact that you mentioned they don't have HP to take hits actually defeats your point. The best DDs most often are not able to take the repercussion of the damage they deal.

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This. Totally agree!

I think weapon delay is broken in general not so much MRD but the fact that you can have two weapons one with 4.0 delay and one with 2.6 and they both have virtually the same dmg rating. Two handed weapons need a boost. It always bothered me that two handers and one handers are the same. SE fixed this in ff11 we could use some the crunch two handers had in that game over here.

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

Remember this?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Description

The marauder is a combat specialist whose weapon of choice is the greataxe -- a fearsome arm emblematic of Eorzea's pirates. Their approach to battle is one of brute force, relying on strength and steel to crush enemies and sunder weapons.

They are highly sought after for their ferocity and intimidating presence, and are often employed to hunt down monsters plaguing the land, or to turn the tide of battle between warring nations. Throwing axes such as the francisca supplement the marauder's arsenal, making them fearsome adversaries even at range.

While stationary, marauders are able to generate a solid base from which they are able to carry out devastating attacks.

The strength of marauders lies in their ability to control timing and distance to maximize the efficacy of their blows.
____________________________________________________________________________________


Yeah, made me think I was going to play a heavy DD too.....
From SE's description you don't really get the idea of the MRD being a tank or AoE melee class, but rather a peak dmg DPS class that can dish it out from up close or at range.

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Marauders aren't the only ones who got lied to by SE. Remember Gladiators and "others forgo the use of a shield, choosing to focus solely on their sword arm"? Only to find out "LOL no you're only allowed to be a tank, use a shield". Glads didn't even get any buffs this patch to any of their attacks, and now I hear Marauders got similarly screwed and the "buffs" they supposedly got don't seem to be buffing anything at all. I also notice both Glad and Marauder have tanking abilities. Hmm. Hmm...

I think SE is trying to tell us that if we aren't LNC or ARC, we don't get to be DD. We're only good for taking hits for other people.

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

Double Attack trait to return, or Momentum?

Here's an idea:

Momentum: Passive trait that, as your character swings their axe, the force generated is utilised to move the axe around quicker for either quicker attacks (think: Self-haste that increases slowly the more you attack, dropping the attacks from 1 per 4 seconds to 1 per 3 second at max cap? Maybe slower/quicker depending on balance) or an additional attack if you miss (like Zanshin, SAM ability. Could have the name mixed up)

And TP gains to be adjusted would allow MRD to function better. What do you think?

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Well there is a post 50 ability for mrd hiding in the dats that ups attack for each successive connecting swing (the down fall of the ability being the bonus resets every time you wiff). There is also a Retaliation style buff that lets us get in free swings every time were hit, once again post 50. And this is not even touching on our four fold ws god's bain.. again post 50.

Now why am i bringing this all up? Well to plant the idea that as much as a hard time we might be having now, there is a darn good possibility that there is a field of grass on the other side of the tunnel that were being groomed for.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Well there is a post 50 ability for mrd hiding in the dats that ups attack for each successive connecting swing (the down fall of the ability being the bonus resets every time you wiff). There is also a Retaliation style buff that lets us get in free swings every time were hit, once again post 50. And this is not even touching on our four fold ws god's bain.. again post 50.

Now why am i bringing this all up? Well to plant the idea that as much as a hard time we might be having now, there is a darn good possibility that there is a field of grass on the other side of the tunnel that were being groomed for.

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Right now i feel like im stepping in dodo shit man cus melee and MRD where lied to w/ this update the boost are so minor they might as well not did it at all and now the skills included in the boost are even weaker on other classes so its a double nerf instead of an overall boost lol

Maybe they just wanted to draw that big diagram showing the melee buffs to inflate the patch notes.

In reality I've noticed a TINY increase with maim but it's a laughable amount. The bottom line is, they (tried to) buff melee to make them more attractive in groups. Shame they totally missed the mark, its like donating a penny to someone that needs cash. You'd be better off giving them nothing than insulting them.

Indeed. Until battle team accept MRD is broken since 1.18 we will be in this situation...

We are ARCs with 4sec delay on AA and 60sec on light shot...how are they expecting the class to work this way? I still have hopes up for them to rebalance basic attack recasts so we can have the classes (and specially MRD) able to resume playing the ay it was expected to.

Given the pattern of the Dev team it appears pretty intentional what they are doing to MRD.
I would love to have some real damage capability, but they just don't see MRD how we do.

My hope is that we will forget about all our complaints once the new jobs are released and no one is using the standard classes anymore. Until then I guess we just have to suck it up cause I have yet to see any significant improvements to MRD and have only seen them get worse.

But honestly, I still feel as though I can lead my party to victory with MRD so it's not like we're playing the "Gau", "Cait Sith" "Quina", or "Kimarhi" of FFXIV.

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So what did we get?
Well LNC got 5 abilities enhanced, and PUG came out nice with 6.
And for some reason MRD was given the least with a total of 4.

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Perhaps because MRD didn't need as many changes and most things are fine as they are.

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But the Maim we have currently pales in comparison. Honestly, I the difference in damage seems almost insignificant once the "exposed" effect is in and for 2000+ TP you really have to question if it was even worth it.

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Every class that has a 2000TP WS has to wonder if its even worth it, especially if you miss it and end up sitting at 0TP. For all classes its almost better just to use multiple lower TP weapon skills then the high cost ones. This isn't just a MRD thing.

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Given the pattern of the Dev team it appears pretty intentional what they are doing to MRD.
I would love to have some real damage capability, but they just don't see MRD how we do.

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Well, they are the DEVs, not you. Don't like the class? Play another class then. MRD doesn't have some real damage capability? I have been rocking 1k+weapon skills on MRD since the high 30s on grind appropriate mobs.

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Skull Sunder, our main DPS WS received a boost.....oh wait, no it didn't. It got left to the wayside just like the MRD class as a whole gets treated

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Am I the only person who thinks Skull Sunder is pretty damned good already? Why does it need a boost all of a sudden? I have never heard of complaints beforehand about Skull Sunder... why now all of a sudden?

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At same time its noce improving these WS damages, the current "usable" WS from MRD are the only ones not enhanced...skull sunder and fracture

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Who says those 2 are the only "usable" MRD weapon skills? I use plenty more then that and they all work fine. Lets even pretend those our the only "usable' weapon skills for MRD..... so you will complain if they buff up your weapon skills that needed it more, over doing it to the weapon skills that are good already? Wow... I mean really.. wow! lol

edit: oh wait, there is one thing I think needs fixing for MRD. When steadfast is up and you do not want to AOE due to other mobs around, you can not WS immediately after moving like you should be able to, you have to wait for the steadfast Icon to go away, which seems to have a little delay on it. Has caused me some problems.

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

My hope is that we will forget about all our complaints once the new jobs are released and no one is using the standard classes anymore. Until then I guess we just have to suck it up cause I have yet to see any significant improvements to MRD and have only seen them get worse.

But honestly, I still feel as though I can lead my party to victory with MRD so it's not like we're playing the "Gau", "Cait Sith" "Quina", or "Kimarhi" of FFXIV.

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If you're going to go quoting a bunch of my text, better to quote everything to give full context so you don't look like you're trolling for arguments.

Nah, its much easier to show what I am replying too by doing it the other way. Thanks for the tip though.

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Originally Posted by Scape

Nah, its much easier to show what I am replying too by doing it the other way. Thanks for the tip though.

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No thank you,
for confirming your troll status.

All your responses show you don't even understand what you're reading.

My issue with Maim isn't the TP, everyone knows every class has a 2000TP WS, my issue is it's effect has been severely nerfed.

I never said there's a problem with Skull Sunder, my issue is that PUG got their full line of WS enhanced while MRD did not.

And thanks for letting me know I'm not on the Dev team, I was really confused as why I didn't get the meeting memos.

I was thinking maybe they should allow us to use LNC ability "Speed Surge" to some what speed up attacks. As well they definitely need to bring back the FFXI "Double Attack". They need to decrease TP required for some abilities like "Maime".

So only MRD should be able to use Speed Surge other then Lancers? yah, that seems fair. They have already mentioned double attack and they have said over and over that the AA patch was just the foundation and it will be added too and tweaked.

MRD needs Retaliation for some hot cleaveburn action

Conj, Arc and Mrd are the most valuable classes for the 45 raid and while mrd has been my main since the start and i was one of the first MRD on my server (or any server) I have to honestly say that its doing fine. MRD is incredibly useful in the skele room and in tanking and killing skell's in the final room. Further, a good mrd can main tank the entire raid.

So overall I would say mrd is a lot more useful than a lnc or pug right now. Personally i go arc to ogre and switch to mrd after ogre most of the time, and it works great.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

Conj, Arc and Mrd are the most valuable classes for the 45 raid and while mrd has been my main since the start and i was one of the first MRD on my server (or any server) I have to honestly say that its doing fine. MRD is incredibly useful in the skele room and in tanking and killing skell's in the final room. Further, a good mrd can main tank the entire raid.

So overall I would say mrd is a lot more useful than a lnc or pug right now. Personally i go arc to ogre and switch to mrd after ogre most of the time, and it works great.

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yep. Honestly, I am not sure how the MRDs in here are playing that are complaining all the time. I am guessing they are trying to be a one trick pony DD, not sure. The job is very versatile. You can go through the R45 dungeon on your MRD as a DD or a tank, or do both at same time. We have a MRD main tank the whole dungeon from time to time and it works well. Seems to be much faster kills on the bosses as well. At 49MRD I have been able to take on 2 of the phase 1/2/3 Batraal skeletons myself. It frees up one person to help with healing or to double team a skeleton. Can also pull 1-3 skelies over to the MRD tanking Batraal and have the MRD tank AOE Batraal and all 3 skelies at the same time while everyone else is AOEing from a distance.

point is, a good MRD can make things a lot easier and faster. You have a tank who can DD and take on more then one thing at a time, and they can do both those roles without having to re-stat or change out every action.

Of course, the job does need some tweaking. But, this is not MRD specific. Every job needs stuff "fixed". It's a work in progress at the moment and we are only at the very beginning of that process. It gets tiring when you go to the MRD forum because you want to discuss the class but you have a page full of complaints.