Dungeon ditch timer needs to go.

For one, I believe MMORPGs are about freedom and social interaction, and when that social interaction becomes strained for whatever reason, we have the right to leave the social environment without consequence. The fact that deserter timers exist, means that we can't leave party to pursue another, more stable experience for ourselves. I am not just speaking for people who might be impatient and feel the need to roll with dungeon vets; I am speaking for those, like me, who want an experience free of ninja looting, bad mouthing, and general misbehavior -- while starting fresh with new people. Because I cannot tell you about all the experiences I have had with this dungeon finder paradigm, I will end with this note. In protecting the few from social obscurity, SE has forsaken the rest of us by limiting our freedom to choose who we want to be with. In the ideal world, I would not need dungeon finder. Sadly, party finder and guild groups hardly work for low level dungeons.

I really want to hear the story of ninja looting in a dungeon. This will be good.

With any proposed change, you have to consider "how can it be abused"? And despite the times it's not your fault to ditch, the abuse possible from this idea will prevent it from ever being implemented.

Edit: and yeah, "ninja lotting"? If you cry that in a DF the problem isn't other people.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

I really want to hear the story of ninja looting in a dungeon. This will be good.

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I'm with ya lol exactly how do ppl Nin Loot in the dungeon??? I'm gonna guess OP that sum1 not passing gear u think u should have maybe because they higher level?

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Originally Posted by Faceroller

ninja looting

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Ninja doesn't exist in FFxiv

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The fact that deserter timers exist, means that we can't leave party to pursue another, more stable experience for ourselves.

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That right their is why the penalty exists.I have no issues running low levels with guild. Heck we recently did Brd brd brd hlr @ sunken temple. Ninja lotting I'm assuming you are referencing the need vs greed option when valuable sellables drop that are job specific

aye, just because you won't abuse a Duty finder to ditch if you dislike anything about the group, doe not mean there aren't several more who ill ditch just to fish for an instawin group or be at X boss, such as the Multitude of queue's in ST "a player has Withdrawn...."

I'm guessing OP wasn't around when there wasn't a penalty timer.

I agree with OP for some points, and hate that anything that get's nerfed is due to people abusing the system. RMTs are a prime example in all MMORPGs. Make money busting your balls, RMTs do it with bots, nerf the way to make w/e because of RMTs, real players pay for it too. Look at materia and spirit bonding for instance. The hoops and loops and twirls we need to get any sort of CHANCE to get the materia we need. When you get stuck in the dungeon you can't beat without a job no one wants to que up for, and you spent 30 minutes of dedicated time before tanky mc spanky left because he got his loot from boss 2, and now you have to either quit and not get a win, or wait until either the timer runs out, or someone else joins up. Even with the 30 minute penalty, some people will eat it and cause the dungeon to not be done, so I'm actually for a stiffer penalty. If there is something you don't like in the dungeon, ask them to vote kick you out, you don't suffer the penalty that way.

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Originally Posted by Faceroller

For one, I believe MMORPGs are about freedom and social interaction, and when that social interaction becomes strained for whatever reason, we have the right to leave the social environment without consequence.

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Originally Posted by Faceroller

without consequence.

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This does not work well with humans.

You are free to leave the group at any time you want. Few choices we make have zero consequences.....especially when they affect others.

On a related note if you end up in that many bad groups (bad mouthing, misvehavior, ninja looting LOL) then maybe it is time to look in the mirror. The vast mahority of DF groups I have been in consist of a few "hellos" at the beginning and a few "gj ty" at the end. If you end up in enough groups of "bad mouthing" that this would matter I am speculating it may be due to an entitled/selfish attitude from one of the 4 members in your group....of which you are the only common denominator.

Not a system problem, but a problem with a community.

DF generally works fine on JP data centers but on NA data centers.......

I don't know about you, but I don't really like it when people leave dungeons whether it's right at the beginning or in the middle or at the end. Unless a session is going REALLY terribly (like basically impossible to advance). It'll be pretty often that you will find someone in a dungeon that doesn't know their role. So what, you get to just keep going in and out of duties until you find a group you like? How many groups get abandoned in your wake? How many groups get left without a fourth player because it's just so easy and convenient to leave? Sorry, I don't agree with this at all. If you're leaving dungeons often enough that the penalty bothers you, then you're too quick to pull the trigger and the penalty is there to discourage you from that.

I don't know what OP means by ninja looting? But you never know why someone rolls need. Some people want to be able to SB stuff or sell it for money. I'm a lv66 WHM and I went to Qarn so I could get some lv35 WHM gear for my retainer.

Ninja looting is where you either get what you want, or not, and pop smoke after a boss fight leaving people behind without so much a word on why. First boss fight is down, healer gets what they want from it, then leave. Now you are sitting wondering where you're next healer is coming from, or tank, w/e.

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Originally Posted by Jican

Ninja looting is where you either get what you want, or not, and pop smoke after a boss fight leaving people behind without so much a word on why. First boss fight is down, healer gets what they want from it, then leave. Now you are sitting wondering where you're next healer is coming from, or tank, w/e.

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ah thank you.

so... wouldn't getting rid of the timer just make ninja looting MORE of a problem? In making it easier for yourself to leave a duty, you make it easier for EVERYONE to abandon. Which seems like one of the things you take issue with.

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Originally Posted by Jican

Ninja looting is where you either get what you want, or not, and pop smoke after a boss fight leaving people behind without so much a word on why. First boss fight is down, healer gets what they want from it, then leave. Now you are sitting wondering where you're next healer is coming from, or tank, w/e.

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Not that it really matters in the context of the thread, but this is not the activity that ninja looting refers to. It's a (honestly morally debatable) term people use to describe someone that essentially "steals" drops; think that you've just tanked T5, and the healer rolls Need on your Allagan Battleaxe. Since you can't roll Need if you're not the class, it drastically cuts down on the ninja'ing, which is why the first couple of responses were along this vein.

There are other ways of stealing loot, but the overarching term to describe it is ninja looting. (we just called it loot stealing back in the day)

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Originally Posted by Inflorescence

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Nowadays people just use it to rage at people using the system (example : HA geared tank rolling need on Divine war gear when a dps wanted it for whatever the reason). That's just a childish way to say "They got what I wanted although I didn't want to secure it by going in the right job"

And now that we can't vote dismiss people when the loot pool is active, there is no remaining way to "ninja" loot in this game.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Nowadays people just use it to rage at people using the system (example : HA geared tank rolling need on Divine war gear when a dps wanted it for whatever the reason). That's just a childish way to say "They got what I wanted although I didn't want to secure it by going in the right job"

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Or a little communication. Before the boss fight speak up and tell the party your intentions. "I plan on Greeding X. Do you guys mind if I take it?" More often than not members will be inclined to acquiesce to your request.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

Or a little communication. Before the boss fight speak up and tell the party your intentions. "I plan on Greeding X. Do you guys mind if I take it?" More often than not members will be inclined to acquiesce to your request.

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aye sure, but unless they specifically agree to let you have it, it's only a matter of being rude or not. If they specifically agreed to let you have it however, you can always fill a ticket for (can't remember the category in which it is) (maybe grief) and it will be answered. **


edit : ** : only if the chat logs can prove ALL the other players agreed to let you have it, or at least the one who over rolled you

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/...ps01dae84e.jpg

This is what I believe to be a more apt example of ninja looting (vs. loot 'n leave). Say someone does a PF for a Moogle Weapon grind cause fast easy fun relics to use on relic quest, and the rules in PF say each person can claim one weapon for greed for an alt class approaching lvk 50. Monk joins third, says he wants DRG weapon. A Dragoon joins last, agrees to rules and says they want the Bow cause it's not spoken for.

This type of party, based on preexisting arrangements in PF everyone should pass what's not their 1 greedable, So example above, DRG weapon drops and Monk is like 'Yay the one reserved for me"'. And Monk greeds it while everyone passes it and it should ne theirs but the DRG who had reserved somethint else breaks the deal and rolls Need, gets the weapon for themselves, and leaves hacing broken their deal.

The timed lockout for abandoning a dungeon is far from ideal, but it's the lesser of two evils. The alternative was that tanks/healers would leave a dungeon group the second they saw anyone was new, or if they perceived it wasn't going to be a blazing-fast speed clear. They could just queue again and instantly get into another group they found more desirable. Meanwhile, the group(s) they left behind had been waiting 30-40 minutes just to get in, and now are stuck waiting even longer for a replacement.

Heck, some tanks would even enter/leave dungeons repeatedly, just to troll other players. DF lockout is designed to eliminate that kind of abuse. Of course, what we have is not perfect, but I believe it does provide more incentive to stick it out and work with what you have. Bear in mind, you do still have the option to remove yourself from toxic situations when you feel the need to. It sucks that you have to eat the penalty for that, but I think this system wastes a lot less time overall than how it used to be.

If the group you get stuck with is really that much of a problem,is waiting 30mins really the end of the world?? The amount of problems getting rid of the would cause would be horrible.

Here I was hoping this thread would be about asking to drop or lower the 15 minute wait before you're allowed to vote abandon a dungeon/trial.

MMO means dealing with ppl, just like IRL, rules are just fine to me. It's not a game issue, it's a community problem. We didn't have those back in the days in FF XI, because players interactions were at the very center of the game.
In short, I would even vote for an extension of the lockdown bc I'm sick of clicking 20 times in a row to enter ST. Furthermore, leaving a group can be through Vote abandon or just asking to kick you. I hardly eat a 30 mn debuff leaving a really bad group and have most of my jobs leveled.
To solve that issue you call ninja looting, you probably would prefer party finder, FC or a group of friends, bc you can't expect random peeps not to attend to their own agenda when they join you briefly from another realm and certainly won't meet you again. They, too, claim their freedom to loot what they want. I noticed PF people tend to Need everything they can. So yes indeed, PF if a no go if you need something particular.

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Thread: Dungeon ditch timer needs to go.

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No, it does not.