Relic and Determination Materia Oversight

I'm sure most people already realize this but I have not seen SE mention anything about whether they plan to address this oversight. In the game's inherent 2ndary stats weighing system, Determination is worth more than the other 2ndary stats; however, when upgrading your Novus, its weighted exactly the same. Sure, its cap is lower but 1 Alexandrite = 1 Determination, the same as any other 2ndary stat. This means that if you want the "best" relic possible, you should always cap Determination, leading the prices of Determination materia to skyrocket to insane values on the MB. I dunno if I explained it well but most people know what I mean already anyways.

An example. The Book of Spade vs the SMN Novus. Book of Spades has 31 crit and 31 det. If you do the same on the SMN Novus, you'll have 31 crit, 31 det, AND 13 EXTRA 2nday stats of your choice. This clearly wrong, as both weapons are ilv 110 and are suppose to have the same amount of 2ndary stats.

I think it's justified, because you need to work much harder to get your novus relic. You need to spend so much time and myth on it. As for the soldiery weapons, you can get one by saving soldiery for, what, 3 weeks?

Relics have more secondaries. It's an extremely small bonus for the hours of grinding.

So would your suggestion be to have each point of det cost 1.5 alexandrite for relic? Wouldn't work. Working as intended.

Wrong, a SMN Novus can have +44 crit and +31 determination (nexus +46, +32). Your right about it being imbalanced though

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

So would your suggestion be to have each point of det cost 1.5 alexandrite for relic? Wouldn't work. Working as intended.

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It would be extremely easy to implement if they so chose to, allow anyone to add 44 points of det. If you put 44 points into det, the result is 31 points on the final result. Just like every other weapon in the game. Not that I mind the current implementation, my novus and my nexus will enjoy the extra Det I get on there. It does, however, lead to some very insane prices on Tier IV Det materia as it is the must have stat for almost every novus.

However, what's more baffling is why they chose to give Det a non-standard stat weight in the first place. All of the other normal secondaries are normalized such that the amount we see on materia and gear is consistent (does not count PIE which is sort of a weird hybrid primary&secondary stat anyway).

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Originally Posted by sackm

Wrong, a SMN Novus can have +44 crit and +31 determination (nexus +46, +32). Your right about it being imbalanced though

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That is what he said. 31 det, 31 crit, and 13 more of a secondary (other than det).

It's imbalanced because it needed to be, for the reason I stated above; the only alternative was to make each det materia use up 1.5 alexandrite, and that would just be wonky.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

It would be extremely easy to implement if they so chose to, allow anyone to add 44 points of det. If you put 44 points into det, the result is 31 points on the final result. Just like every other weapon in the game. Not that I mind the current implementation, my novus and my nexus will enjoy the extra Det I get on there. It does, however, lead to some very insane prices on Tier IV Det materia as it is the must have stat for almost every novus.

However, what's more baffling is why they chose to give Det a non-standard stat weight in the first place. All of the other normal secondaries are normalized such that the amount we see on materia and gear is consistent (does not count PIE which is sort of a weird hybrid primary&secondary stat anyway).

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If you did that there'd be rounding issues for people not going all the way. I'm sure all these things were discussed when planning novus and they ended up saying "ya know what, let's just leave it, let it be a small bonus for the effort, since it's the simplest way to implement it".

And yeah, det being non-standard is odd, they could have, at any point, just converted the #s into the ratio other secondaries have, round things up so people don't complain, and leave it at that. But now that novus is out there would definitely be complaints, since you'd be gimping either people with novus or people with the intent to work on it.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

If you did that there'd be rounding issues for people not going all the way.

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this is what happens on every other piece of gear in the game. You allocate so many stat points for det, the stat weight is applied and the result is rounded. Only difference is you'd actually see it happen (to some degree) on a point per point basis

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

And yeah, det being non-standard is odd, they could have, at any point, just converted the #s into the ratio other secondaries have, round things up so people don't complain, and leave it at that. But now that novus is out there would definitely be complaints, since you'd be gimping either people with novus or people with the intent to work on it.

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Even if you did change it now, nobody with the novus would be gimped, it would just remove the bonus so they were the same power as every other weapon in the game. No more and no fewer stats, just equal.

Sure people would complain, but people complain about everything. They'd get over this, it's not a huge impact.

There's no real need to change anything. Even if it was fixed in a way so that you could only get 31 det and 31 crit/SS people would still buy det because it's the only stat that directly increases your dps/heals.

So all it would accomplish is making people upset.

Time and effort required to get novus > time and effort required to get soldiery weapon.
Therefore, novus stats > soldiery stats

Come on, people. It's simple logic.

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Originally Posted by CodingSession

Time and effort required to get novus > time and effort required to get soldiery weapon.
Therefore, novus stats > soldiery stats

Come on, people. It's simple logic.

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soldiery weapon can't be upgraded

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

this is what happens on every other piece of gear in the game. You allocate so many stat points for det, the stat weight is applied and the result is rounded. Only difference is you'd actually see it happen (to some degree) on a point per point basis

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Except that you don't put time and effort into each of those stats only to have your 75th alexandrite not give a +1 due to rounding. Not gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

This clearly wrong, as both weapons are ilv 110 and are suppose to have the same amount of 2ndary stats.

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If this is wrong, please tell me how you designed the game to be differently. [/Sarcasm]

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Originally Posted by Preinfalk

I think it's justified, because you need to work much harder to get your novus relic. You need to spend so much time and myth on it. As for the soldiery weapons, you can get one by saving soldiery for, what, 3 weeks?

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Harder is not the word.
More time, yes.

But still, T9 is taking time, you need to spend some hours of wiping on every stages, and the drop rate is random, if you have bad luck, you can get it 2-3month after your first T9 clear.

I wont compair the 110 relic with 110 soldiery, becoz it became too easy now, since they put sands everywhere.
Before, sand was only in T8 and T9 (if you use one on a weapon for exemple, it was one you cant use on a chest or something els)

I don't think this is an oversight at all. It's meant to be this way.
Yes, normally items with the same iLv have the same amount of secondary stats. But Relics are a special case.

Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

An example. The Book of Spade vs the SMN Novus. Book of Spades has 31 crit and 31 det. If you do the same on the SMN Novus, you'll have 31 crit, 31 det, AND 13 EXTRA 2nday stats of your choice. This clearly wrong, as both weapons are ilv 110 and are suppose to have the same amount of 2ndary stats.

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The work that goes into making a relic is much more than what it takes to get a soldiery weapon. 13 secondary stat points which is not game breaking in the least bit, is the extra motivation/incentive/reason people are upgrading relics.

if you have not begun this process, please look forward to being behind the curve as it continues to grow and grow in power.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

it would just remove the bonus so they were the same power as every other weapon in the game. No more and no fewer stats, just equal.

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what your proposing doesn't work across the board. you can't single out players that actually decided to go all the way. I did not. I went with an even distribution of 27 determination, 33 crit, and 18 accuracy. I used only materia that I had and didn't wanna waste time spiritnonding and rushed it because shiny.

It is a huge impact for people that put a 3rd secondary on their novus. what you are saying is erasing stat points that are the remainder from the rounded get values. No. I put accuracy on my relic as a 3rd stat also so that I would have to worry less about i in 2,4 and could gear up and not have to worry about not having acc to start with. Why should I have to suffer because I decided to think outside the box (and save gil)?

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

soldiery weapon can't be upgraded

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are you living in a dream world or trolling. it certainly does get upgraded, by ten i lvls, in a very short amount of time once u have the weapon already.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Except that you don't put time and effort into each of those stats only to have your 75th alexandrite not give a +1 due to rounding. Not gonna happen.

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and they would have to implement a system that shows u the rounding or explains to you "yeah, go get 44 get iv materia, were just going to round it down to 31, and the gil u spent, you might as well as shoved it up a lala's a**

The relics are special that's why the stat allocation is the way it is. I do agree though that they maybe should have thought the system out a bit more. The inflation on DET Materia is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

The relics are special that's why the stat allocation is the way it is. I do agree though that they maybe should have thought the system out a bit more. The inflation on DET Materia is ridiculous.

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While I agree that the get market is insane, and can be a downright deal breaker for some, I think it is actually fine the way it is. When I started my novus, I had 7. Realized I was getting unlucky on the "melds" (failing at 88% with other materia -_- ) so I decided to sell. Made money while making my relic novus, which was cool.

anyway. I think its good because even within relic holders, it distinguishes players from each other... I think its fine.