SMN rotation

guys. what rotation do u think it can be the highest DPS!!! . in case T8 and T9

I'm curious too. Haven't heard much about maximizing smn dps since we lost Thunder as a cross-class lol.

My opening rotation for T8:

Hard cast Shadowflare as Tank is running to boss
Auto attack, Raging Strikes, Bio II, Miasma, Bio, Miasma II, Ruin II, Fester, Contagion. Rouse, Spur, Enkindle, Ruin, Fester, Ruin II.

That last Ruin II gets in half a second before Raging Strikes wears off. Swiftcast Shadowflare, then reapply dots as they are about to fall off. I only use Miasma II when I have contagion available for more mp for Festers.

My T9 opener is the same except no auto attack and no Miasma II.

Not saying this is the best opener but it works for me and I am usually highest DPS at start of every fight unless our BLM gets some good crits or rng procs.

Optimal opener is:

Raging Strikes -> X-Potion of Intelligence -> Bio II (Start precasting it when you see your tank about to engage) -> Miasma (Start moving toward the boss at 0.5 left on the cast) -> Bio -> Fester (when Bio applies) -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Potion -> Contagion + Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare -> Rouse -> Ruin II -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow.

After this, it's mostly a priority system depending on how the fight goes. You want to refresh Dots when they have < 3 seonds remaining, same deal for Shadow Flare if the boss won't move for 12 seconds minimum. Make sure to use Ruin II in before using off-gcd abilities. Whenever possible, be in melee range to be able to auto-attack the boss.

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Originally Posted by Kyroc

My opening rotation for T8:

Hard cast Shadowflare as Tank is running to boss
Auto attack, Raging Strikes, Bio II, Miasma, Bio, Miasma II, Ruin II, Fester, Contagion. Rouse, Spur, Enkindle, Ruin, Fester, Ruin II.

That last Ruin II gets in half a second before Raging Strikes wears off. Swiftcast Shadowflare, then reapply dots as they are about to fall off. I only use Miasma II when I have contagion available for more mp for Festers.

My T9 opener is the same except no auto attack and no Miasma II.

Not saying this is the best opener but it works for me and I am usually highest DPS at start of every fight unless our BLM gets some good crits or rng procs.

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Too many holes in there that can easily be filled. Hardcasting Shadow Flare in the opener is a big no-no. Try the one I posted above you. Consumables are not required but if you're looking the maximum damage output possible, they are. By the way for T9, you can get a Miasma II in for the opener. Just pop Sprint 5 seconds before the pull and you'll be back in place with the range.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Optimal opener is:

Raging Strikes -> X-Potion of Intelligence -> Bio II (Start precasting it when you see your tank about to engage) -> Miasma (Start moving toward the boss at 0.5 left on the cast) -> Bio -> Fester (when Bio applies) -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Potion -> Contagion + Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare -> Rouse -> Ruin II -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow.

After this, it's mostly a priority system depending on how the fight goes. You want to refresh Dots when they have < 3 seonds remaining, same deal for Shadow Flare if the boss won't move for 12 seconds minimum. Make sure to use Ruin II in before using off-gcd abilities. Whenever possible, be in melee range to be able to auto-attack the boss.

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This covers most of it. Personally I modified my T9 slightly in the first phase documented below:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...age-Discussion

PS: I also don't save Enkindle in T8 for that first Dread anymore, often enough I've pulled lower numbers saving Rouse, Spur , Enkindle for that moment instead of just going full throttle on the boss.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

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Obviously the rotation can be altered depending on the encounter. Sticking to one thing and one thing only is unwise.

I'm surprised this much thought goes into the exact form and sequence of your 1/2/3's. Not saying this is a bad thing at all, I just truly wonder how much extra DPS is gained by following such a strict formula like this

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Raging Strikes -> X-Potion of Intelligence -> Bio II (Start precasting it when you see your tank about to engage) -> Miasma (Start moving toward the boss at 0.5 left on the cast) -> Bio -> Fester (when Bio applies) -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Potion -> Contagion + Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare -> Rouse -> Ruin II -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow.

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Again... absolutely no problems with it, I'm actually quite the min-maxer myself, just never to this degree... yet

(Edit: I know you obv meant just for that fight and not everything ever :) )

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

I'm surprised this much thought goes into the exact form and sequence of your 1/2/3's. Not saying this is a bad thing at all, I just truly wonder how much extra DPS is gained by following such a strict formula like this



Again... absolutely no problems with it, I'm actually quite the min-maxer myself, just never to this degree... yet

(Edit: I know you obv meant just for that fight and not everything ever :) )

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This is just our opening rotation and its the correct one to squeeze the most damage out. Thats what DPS is for the most part, small little things that add up to be a lot.

More on topic: After the rotation is done just keep DoTs up (refreshing with about 3 seconds left) Use Aetherflow on cooldown, only use Fester (or Bane if you need to AoE onto something).
Raging Strikes almost on CD (you may need to wait 5-10 seconds depending on how contagion lines up).

Hey all I am rather new to SMN. Well just dinged fiddy and am wanting some feedback. I am in no way an endgame SCOB SMN but for was reading the above and can't help but thinking I am doing something wrong. For the most part I seem to do pretty well in duties, I get a lot of yellow to orange triangles if that is any indicator.

Here goes:

Bio > Raging strikes > Miasma > Bio II > Miasma II > Fester > Bio > Bane > Shadow Flare > Ruin II > Ruin

I think that is how I go. I am looking for suggestions to improve my DPS here. I read above about the weaving of rouse, spur and enkindle....duh, that makes so much more sense now.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Here's my rotation. 460 DPS in 3:20 minutes with I110 weapon. As you can see, I am never suffering from GCD in the video, so always make sure to follow any move with GCD with an instant cast move like shown in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrPq...ature=youtu.be

Same rotation can be applied to T9 and T8 opening(Minus the energy drain part). Though I do save enkindle for the dread. Since you can only use two enkindles per fight, saving Enkindle for first and third dread means that you can hit 4 targets by Enkindle, maximizing the damage. Of course, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be using Rouse and Spurr in between those parts.

Also, don't use energy drain unless you really need the MP or you need to burst something quick.

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Originally Posted by Synestr

Hey all I am rather new to SMN. Well just dinged fiddy and am wanting some feedback. I am in no way an endgame SCOB SMN but for was reading the above and can't help but thinking I am doing something wrong. For the most part I seem to do pretty well in duties, I get a lot of yellow to orange triangles if that is any indicator.

Here goes:

Bio > Raging strikes > Miasma > Bio II > Miasma II > Fester > Bio > Bane > Shadow Flare > Ruin II > Ruin

I think that is how I go. I am looking for suggestions to improve my DPS here. I read above about the weaving of rouse, spur and enkindle....duh, that makes so much more sense now.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

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the opening for SMN will mostly be the same ad you cna find that rotation every where, beside using your OGCD between GCD ability, increase cast speed can increase your dps, imo 385 to 400 is a good cast speed stats. It will drain your mp faster but BRD are there in the party for a reason

So maybe looking like Raging > Bio II > Rouse > Miasma > Spur > Bio > Miasma II > Bane > Contagion > Fester > SC(if avail) ShadowFlare > RuinII > Enkindle > Ruin ...repeat?

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Originally Posted by Synestr

So maybe looking like Raging > Bio II > Rouse > Miasma > Spur > Bio > Miasma II > Bane > Contagion > Fester > SC(if avail) ShadowFlare > RuinII > Enkindle > Ruin ...repeat?

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SMN isn't so cookie cutter, we have an optimal opening rotation for single target bosses and that's about it, the rest is basically reapllying DoTs when needed, only using miasma II when a contagion is up, and only using raging when a contagion is ready, but if you can try to keep everything on CD. It is better to save a contagion for raging than to save raging for contagion so be weary of that before you go popping off skills just because. You'll want to apply your first three DoTs for your opener in this order- Bio II > Miasma > Bio. Essentially what you're doing is applying your longest lasting DoT first, then when you contagion them the way they fall off lines up without more than one of them needing to be reapplied at the same time. Fester right after bio shows up on the debuff bar, not as soon as you apply it, it is possible to use fester too quickly after casting bio and bio won't be recognized, greatly reducing your DPS. The idea behind using your Ruin IIs is that during the GCD you are popping out rouse, spur, and enkindle, in that order, to maximize your GCD and off GCD weaving. So after your first fester you can use Miasma II and contagion while the GCD is doing it's thing since miasma II is instant cast. Swiftcast and throw down shadow flare, during the GCD pop rouse, after that is applied ruin II (which is instant cast) and spur during the GCD, throw one more ruin II and enkindle for large egi damage. After that is done you should have time for one regular ruin before fester is back up. Once you use the fester you will only have 1 or 2 seconds left on raging strikes which isn't enough time to hard cast a ruin so just use ruin II to beat the timer, and that is your opener (without pots). If you're usiong pots the ones to use are int-x and potent poisons. Basically you'll use the int-x right after you pop raging, and the poison right after you miasma II but before contagion, since contagion affects the poison pots as well.

General rules for SMN include: You can swift cast every other shadow flare, dont SC anything else; only use miasma II when you have a contagion up because miasma II is not worth it without cointagion; make sure you have a contagion ready for every raging strikes, make sure you reapply all DoTs during the raging strikes and apply miasma II during raging strikes BEFORE you contagion. Also while you're at it make sure you have at least 2 aether stacks so you can fester twice during raging, it is silly for a SMN to pop raging and have no aether stacks and 45 second left on aetherflow, just silly; reapply your bio, bio II and miasmas at around 3 seconds left on the DoT. And that's about it long form. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Synestr

So maybe looking like Raging > Bio II > Rouse > Miasma > Spur > Bio > Miasma II > Bane > Contagion > Fester > SC(if avail) ShadowFlare > RuinII > Enkindle > Ruin ...repeat?

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You don't want to use Rouse/Spur in between skills that aren't instant cast, as it will slow down your normal casts. Bio/Ruin II/Miasma II is ideal

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Optimal opener is:
Raging Strikes -> X-Potion of Intelligence -> Bio II (Start precasting it when you see your tank about to engage) -> Miasma (Start moving toward the boss at 0.5 left on the cast) -> Bio -> Fester (when Bio applies) -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Potion -> Contagion + Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare -> Rouse -> Ruin II -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow.

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This is all you need to know.
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On T9 I use Sprint before the pull, because I stand in melee range to get my Auto Attacks off while Ruin II spamming. (Auto Attacks is 25-30 DPS)

Also, if you want to get real fancy you can hold off on Rouse/Spur - Contagion all your DOT's and then SC Ifrit -> Rouse/Spur/Enkindle

You only want to do that on fights where you have a section of downtime where re-summoning Garuda for Contagion will not be a DPS loss, as well as where you have sufficient MP to pull it off. (i.e. not having to Energy Drain over Fester because you are OOM)

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Obviously the rotation can be altered depending on the encounter. Sticking to one thing and one thing only is unwise.

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Well considering he asked mainly about T8 and T9, it was merely a point that in specific beginning phases of T9 (to max DPS like the title stated), there imo, is a non-conventional way of doing things especially since you ideally want to clip earlier then normal (mainly because of the jumps).

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Originally Posted by Lethorian

You can swift cast every other shadow flare, dont SC anything else;

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There are several moments when using SC to apply your Bio II or Miasma, is highly beneficial especially in dodging / high movement scenarios.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Well considering he asked mainly about T8 and T9, it was merely a point that in specific beginning phases of T9 (to max DPS like the title stated), there imo, is a non-conventional way of doing things especially since you ideally want to clip earlier then normal (mainly because of the jumps).

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Oh I agree. Chances are though if he asks for T8 and T9, he'd need the standard one as well to begin with so might as well give more info than too few.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

There are several moments when using SC to apply your Bio II or Miasma, is highly beneficial especially in dodging / high movement scenarios.

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Agreed. Swiftcast + Miasma saved me once or twice during T7 kiting when the Renaud spawned at a not so desirable location.

thanks!! for ur guys answer

and what kind of food do you use ?

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Originally Posted by Teeratong

thanks!! for ur guys answer

and what kind of food do you use ?

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Depending on your stats, either HQ Buttons on a Blanket or HQ Black Truffle Risotto.

For the most part, HQ Buttons > HQ Black Truffle (unless you want the extra VIT) since at current gear levels, we cap out Buttons but not Black Truffle unless you specifically aim to max a single stat (crit or det) to gain the extra point.

IMO best opener is this. Also make sure pet is isnt on obey, if garuda uses her aerial slash on a single target you are losing dps.
make sure you have 3 stacks of AF, and AF skill ready
Raging Strikes -> X-Potion of Intelligence -> Bio II (Start precasting it when you see your tank about to engage) -> Miasma (Start moving toward the boss at 0.5 left on the cast) -> Bio -> Fester (when Bio applies) -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Potion -> Contagion + Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare -> Rouse -> Ruin II -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow.

It would be this but weave in Energy drain with RS up, pointless sitting on stacks with RS up

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

make sure pet is isnt on obey, if garuda uses her aerial slash on a single target you are losing dps.

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So I have updated my priority system to the one described and it took a few to get used to but now I got it and it is really pretty sweet. I am noticing a difference. Still working on the right flow in my quick slots though.

Question about what is quoted above. Clarification: If Garuda is in Obey she only does single target damage? Why would it be different if she was on sic, does it change to an AOE or does she rotate targets? Also how would you use Contagion with her not in obey, macro? Would the macro work sice she would not be in obey, or would it just error out due to you not being able to "give" commands to your pet?

TIA!

Syn

I think he's meaning to say "make sure Garuda is on Obey/isn't on Sic." I can't think of a single situation where you'd actually want her on Sic, anyway.

Sorry my bad I meant to say make sure she isnt on SIC and only on obey.

When all pets are on Sic they use skills as soon as they are off CD, which means garuda will use aerial slash instead of wind blade which is a loss in dps, but it also means she will use contagion when its available meaning your DOTs are very unlikely to refreshed correctly :)

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

IMO best opener is this. Also make sure pet is isnt on obey, if garuda uses her aerial slash on a single target you are losing dps.
make sure you have 3 stacks of AF, and AF skill ready
Raging Strikes -> X-Potion of Intelligence -> Bio II (Start precasting it when you see your tank about to engage) -> Miasma (Start moving toward the boss at 0.5 left on the cast) -> Bio -> Fester (when Bio applies) -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Potion -> Contagion + Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare -> Rouse -> Ruin II -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow.

It would be this but weave in Energy drain with RS up, pointless sitting on stacks with RS up

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Energy Drain with Raging Strikes (180 Potency) is still less than a Fester even if it crits (270 Potency). So no, do not use Energy Drain even with Raging Strikes being up.

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

IMO best opener is this. Also make sure pet is isnt on obey, if garuda uses her aerial slash on a single target you are losing dps.
make sure you have 3 stacks of AF, and AF skill ready
Raging Strikes -> X-Potion of Intelligence -> Bio II (Start precasting it when you see your tank about to engage) -> Miasma (Start moving toward the boss at 0.5 left on the cast) -> Bio -> Fester (when Bio applies) -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Potion -> Contagion + Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare -> Rouse -> Ruin II -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow.

It would be this but weave in Energy drain with RS up, pointless sitting on stacks with RS up

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Energy drain is still a DPS loss even with X-Pot + RS when compared to fester. Only use energy drain if you are running out of manna or if you wanna burst something quick.

Ok, that's what I figured but thought I might have missed a ancient SMN technique somewhere.

Things are looking better.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Energy Drain with Raging Strikes (180 Potency) is still less than a Fester even if it crits (270 Potency). So no, do not use Energy Drain even with Raging Strikes being up.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Energy drain is still a DPS loss even with X-Pot + RS when compared to fester. Only use energy drain if you are running out of manna or if you wanna burst something quick.

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The reason you weave energy drain in and only on pull with QS up, is to burn through your stacks, you can only fester once with RS up on pull (simply due to the fact RS is 20secs applying your DOTs takes a nice chunk of this time and fester is on a 10s CD), so what are you doing with the other 5 stacks of flow, being a silly SMN and sitting on them I guess. This is an opening rotation, the reason you use energy drain is make use of an off-gcd skill with the added damage from RS+POT without affecting DOT application, and if you want to complain about animation adding unnecessary time, stutter step to cancel the animation and cast next spell
Energy drain weaving is only to be done on the opening and if you need mana.




@Synestr also as a SMN/SCH/ACN you do not want to be sitting on stacks of flow if aetherflow skill is off CD except for moments when need to burst something down asap with R1 R2 Fester rotation replacing it with an ED once or twice depending on what the stack situation is.

You can fester twice during Raging strikes.

RS, bio 2, Miasma, Bio, Fester, Miasma 2, contagion, *Swiftcast if up* shadow flare, rouse and spur during gcd from shadow flare, ruin, Ruin 2, fester. RS should drop after that.

It's better dps to just wait another 10 seconds and fester/aetherflow then than to use energy drain during RS. If mechanics were unfriendly and you somehow have 2 aether stacks when aetherflow comes off CD go ahead and ED + fester though

Ill go over this when I get back at work at moment, I think all of you are a little confused by what I said.
Btw I was saying to do this when you have 3 stacks and aetherflow is off CD, so you wouldnt actually miss out on any festers, you would just be using the energy drain while fester was on CD.

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

Ill go over this when I get back at work at moment, I think all of you are a little confused by what I said.
Btw I was saying to do this when you have 3 stacks and aetherflow is off CD, so you wouldnt actually miss out on any festers, you would just be using the energy drain while fester was on CD.

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What Madoka said. Even if you have Aetherflow ready and you have 3 stacks on pull, it's still better to go 3x Fester then Aetherflow. You have 1 minute to use 10 seconds cooldown 3 times which is more than plenty to not have to use Energy Drain as it still ends up being a damage loss no matter how you see it.

Yep. Since you can get two Festers into that Raging Strikes anyways and Energy Drain is only half the potency of Fester its worth it to wait the 10 seconds to use Fester. Getting Aetherflow back on CD 10 seconds faster wont make up for the 120 potency loss of using ED during RS over waiting for Fester.

The two festers on RS is confirmed on my side. It is looking nice. I enjoyed smn before but it has gotten just a little bit better. ^.^

Ok hands up I'm wrong, sorry for that.

However judge xero a ED on RS is 180 potency so its more than half, only weave in EDs when you need to burst or short on mana.

However, I havent seen anyone mention to use R2 when you need to use off GCD abilities.

I mentioned it in my RS string. It's better to not worry about it until you have your foundations down though and work on including it as you get better. I see people who are way too overzealous on it and run out of MP halfway into a fight while I'm sitting at 1500-2000 mp and still doing more dps than they were.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Optimal opener is:

Raging Strikes -> X-Potion of Intelligence -> Bio II (Start precasting it when you see your tank about to engage) -> Miasma (Start moving toward the boss at 0.5 left on the cast) -> Bio -> Fester (when Bio applies) -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Potion -> Contagion + Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare -> Rouse -> Ruin II -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow.

After this, it's mostly a priority system depending on how the fight goes. You want to refresh Dots when they have < 3 seonds remaining, same deal for Shadow Flare if the boss won't move for 12 seconds minimum. Make sure to use Ruin II in before using off-gcd abilities. Whenever possible, be in melee range to be able to auto-attack the boss.

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Thanks for this. I was a SMN main for a long time, but got discouraged when I found out how bad my DPS was compared to what I actually thought. Using this has increased my DPS dramatically and allowed me to go back to a class I thoroughly enjoy playing. Unfortunately, I'm halfway through to my BLM novus weapon, and have decided to go back and do SMN novus :-/ Plus, I'll be trying out Ninja next week (I can't resist.)

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Originally Posted by Madoka

I mentioned it in my RS string. It's better to not worry about it until you have your foundations down though and work on including it as you get better. I see people who are way too overzealous on it and run out of MP halfway into a fight while I'm sitting at 1500-2000 mp and still doing more dps than they were.

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Exactly. It's better to know how long the encounter you're in will be and gauged from there how crazy with Ruin II you can be.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Thanks for this. I was a SMN main for a long time, but got discouraged when I found out how bad my DPS was compared to what I actually thought. Using this has increased my DPS dramatically and allowed me to go back to a class I thoroughly enjoy playing. Unfortunately, I'm halfway through to my BLM novus weapon, and have decided to go back and do SMN novus :-/ Plus, I'll be trying out Ninja next week (I can't resist.)

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Well, with the Atma drop rate increased, you'll be able to finish both now. Glad to have been of help.

So, I've a few questions.
I kite on T7, but I barely DPS. Any tips here? It's hard to Tab target with controller to DPS Melusine and then switch back between all adds in time to Miasma a Renaud. Also, opening rotation includes a few AoEs (Miasma 2, Enkindle). Should I avoid Enkindle? I won't Miasma 2 (fireball issues).

Also, do we ever use Energy Drain? I end up burning 2 when I have about 500-800mp left.

Focus target melusine and hope you can quickly target your focus target? Never used controller, much less to kite.

M2 is fine to open as long as you're using contagion and out of there before fireball comes out, using enkindle early is also fine as long as garuda was buffed, it's not likely you'll be able to hit two targets with it during the fight anyway and if you save it for adds you might only use it once or might hit a petrified renaud.

You should only have to use ED if you die. We have a couple few second breaks of not casting anything getting a renaud in place across the fight

Against a dummy, I've hit 100mp in about 3-4 minutes. Is there a way to prevent this?

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Against a dummy, I've hit 100mp in about 3-4 minutes. Is there a way to prevent this?

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If you know you're getting Ballad at one point during encounters, then it's a non issue but if you won't get it, then the solution is to tone down on Ruin II usage and that can also only carry you so far. At one point, Energy Drain will have to be used, sadly.