WHM Help and Question

Just did Amdapor & told by tank I need to read WHM guides cuz Im doing my rotation wrong.

Was my 1st time there so was new to it, but never had problem before with new places. He'd pull 3-4 groups then would stop when he was about 1/4 health & Id start healing like mad

I would cast Swiftcast>Cure II>Pres of Mind>Cure II until tank solidly over 1/4 health & close to 1/2 health. Once he wasn't close to dying I'd throw a regen & then top him off. Only reason dont throw regen 1st is the GCD

Only reason we wiped was because Benedctn was on CD from prior pull. That was when he informed me I wasn't healing right

What am I doing wrong? am I missing any spell/crosspell. Hate mad tanks and he was mad I wasn't healing in correct order.

Up til now thought I was doing okay. Been doing Tam Tara EX with large mob pulls & haven't had a wipe so thought I was doing fine, but now I think Im not ready for other experts. So any advice or criticism would be very welcome! Thanks!

Well if the tank is at one quarter health by the time he stops, it's him who is doing something wrong.

On huge pulls I always start with divine seal, cure two, then regen. Then cure again if necessary, before going into cleric stance> swiftcast> holy spam. Use presence of mind right after the swiftcast holy, when available. Then do at least 4 holy's, but as many as possible without leaving yourself mana starved.

You definitely want to open up with Divine Seal + Cure (II) spam, Regen and (Swiftcast +) Medica II when you can, and (Swiftcast +)(Presence of Mind+) Holy spam to stun the mobs. In fact, in general the first thing that should come to mind when you see your heals can't keep up is Divine Seal, not Cure II.

thank you .. you guys rock and I knew you could help me. Divine Seal it is!

Start the bigger mob groups with Divine Seal and Cure 2. Stoneskin is great to use. You get healing procs later on that help save mp. White Mages have Holy and Blizzard 3 for AoE stuns. Holy is great while in Cleric Stance but can eat mana. I use Blizzard 3 when I just want the stun effect. Its pretty much just a learn as you go type of thing. You'll learn how you like to heal. You'll learn the different dungeons and primal fights.

oh .. and holy spam to stun.

thank you.. much appreciated :)

he gave me no time to stoneskin between pulls, normally i would throw a stoneskin on but he was running from one mob to the next sprinting just trying to get thru the duty as fast as he could.

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Originally Posted by Sinna

he gave me no time to stoneskin between pulls, normally i would throw a stoneskin on but he was running from one mob to the next sprinting just trying to get thru the duty as fast as he could.

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For what it's worth, I always begin casting Adlo/SS while the last mob in the current pull is dying so that the tank doesn't have to stop. Keeps the pace smooth while still creating a decent buffer for the pull to come.

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Originally Posted by gehrtalert

Start the bigger mob groups with Divine Seal and Cure 2. Stoneskin is great to use. You get healing procs later on that help save mp. White Mages have Holy and Blizzard 3 for AoE stuns. Holy is great while in Cleric Stance but can eat mana. I use Blizzard 3 when I just want the stun effect. Its pretty much just a learn as you go type of thing. You'll learn how you like to heal. You'll learn the different dungeons and primal fights.

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Holy has stun
Blizzard 2 (not 3) has root

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Originally Posted by Velox

Holy has stun
Blizzard 2 (not 3) has root

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Thats the same basic thing though right? Stop an enemy from attacking? If not, then whats the difference?Im pretty sure Blizzard 2 has a stun effect to it also. I could be wrong tho. I dont use it much.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

You definitely want to open up with Divine Seal + Cure (II) spam, Regen and (Swiftcast +) Medica II when you can, and (Swiftcast +)(Presence of Mind+) Holy spam to stun the mobs. In fact, in general the first thing that should come to mind when you see your heals can't keep up is Divine Seal, not Cure II.

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This pretty much, only think I would add is saving Swiftcast for Holy is also an alternative to using it for Medica II (Just a matter of what will help you the most in the heat of the moment), If you notice the tank's CDs are about to wear off and know its going to be hard to heal the AoE stun gives you a chances to get a few spells off to top him off, very helpful if you use it right. While I will never say do this without CS up (go go healer deeps!) if you are just having a hard time keeping up don't even worry about CS just use it for the AoE stun.

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Originally Posted by gehrtalert

Thats the same basic thing though right? Stop an enemy from attacking? If not, then whats the difference?Im pretty sure Blizzard 2 has a stun effect to it also. I could be wrong tho. I dont use it much.

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Root stops a target from moving, but they can continue attacking (as long as you are in range). Stun stops a target from moving and attacking, at the cost of having a very small duration.

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Originally Posted by Hollowed

This pretty much, only think I would add is saving Swiftcast for Holy is also an alternative to using it for Medica II (Just a matter of what will help you the most in the heat of the moment), If you notice the tank's CDs are about to wear off and know its going to be hard to heal the AoE stun gives you a chances to get a few spells off to top him off, very helpful if you use it right. While I will never say do this without CS up (go go healer deeps!) if you are just having a hard time keeping up don't even worry about CS just use it for the AoE stun.

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That's what I meant by the (Swiftcast +), optional combinations. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I've used Swiftcast for either depending on the tank I have so I figured I would mention it with both rather than imply Swiftcast + Holy is always the way the go (it's ideal of course).

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Originally Posted by gehrtalert

Thats the same basic thing though right? Stop an enemy from attacking? If not, then whats the difference?Im pretty sure Blizzard 2 has a stun effect to it also. I could be wrong tho. I dont use it much.

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It does not, Blizzard II is purely a root and mobs will still attack you if you're in range.

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Originally Posted by gehrtalert

Thats the same basic thing though right? Stop an enemy from attacking? If not, then whats the difference?Im pretty sure Blizzard 2 has a stun effect to it also. I could be wrong tho. I dont use it much.

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As others have explained, root doesn't prevent action, and on top of that, root (+Bind) is broken when the targets take any direct damage, making it a useless control in 99% of PvE situations.

N

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Originally Posted by gehrtalert

Thats the same basic thing though right? Stop an enemy from attacking? If not, then whats the difference?Im pretty sure Blizzard 2 has a stun effect to it also. I could be wrong tho. I dont use it much.

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An enemy under bind (the effect of blizzard 2) can still attack, but not move. You can use it on melee enemies out of melee range to prevent attacks, but it doesnt work that well on ranged mobs.

As for the original question, it sounds like a problem with the tank more than anything. If a tank tries large pulls, hesitates or moves too slow, then they will take massive amounts of damage before the pull stops, making your life as a healer very very difficult!

EDIT: time it took me to type this, many others responded to the bind/root properties of blizzard 2 as well.

Depending on gear of tank plus yours and theirs competency you can really forgo the cure 2 all together (again keep in mind based on tank HP, and if you know where the tank will stop for the pulls etc, in some cases if the tank is new / not very geared extra care might need to be taken to ensure they live on heavy pulls).

But- If you have a well geared/veteran played tank you'll be able to easily Stoneskin / Eye for eye before the pull, before the tank actually stops pulling you should be able to stop slightly before and pop divine seal (even can pop it while your still running right before the pull stop area) and instead of going into cure 2, medica 2 instead. The range is fairly wide so this allows you to cast it slightly farther away- which should net you a few mila -to seconds on getting ahead on your rotation, It should be noted though that you don't want to do this too early and run the risk ripping hate away from your tank. It should be timed to hit right as or right after the tank flashes/steel cyclone/overpower goes off.
In the event you mistakenly cast early or your tank does something horribly wrong and you indeed do rip hate from them, if your geared there's a good chance you'll live through the initial hits, (pending on pull size) just be ready to pop that surecast the second you see your enemy list flash blinking red and cure 2 yourself.

Next you can follow into a regen, this will put you on GCD but it gives you time to weave in Cleric's Stance + a swiftcast (if its up) OR a presence of mind (if it's up) allowing you to go directly into Holy spam. Because holy has the stun attached to it you shouldn't run the risk of the tank dieing within the first 3 holy's as long as you hit all the mobs pulled in question. Your first stun will last for (3) seconds, when the 2nd debuff gets casts it will put it at (2) followed by the last debuff which will apply at (1). By this time your HoTs should have easily ticked the tank up to full, and depending on tank CDs / how your other DPS is the mobs should be nearly dead and the tank with enough HP to survive the remaining mobs without needing much help from you. *Granted you may need to peel out early of your holy spam if your tank mistakenly doesn't CD properly, or you do not hit all the mobs pulled with holy's. Your stun attached as stated by others above is the main reason this is allowed to work the way it does. So just be aware, once those 3 holy's go out, your tank will start taking damage again if they do not die, so be ready to take off the Clerics Stance and go back into curing with cure 1/2 depending on the needs at the time.

If it's speedrun pulling you're having trouble with, the quality of the tank can make your life incredibly easy or difficult.
Any buff on someone adds enmity against you, but if the tank is able to get enmity on every mob on their way to a stop point, that gives you freedom to cast Eye for an Eye or Swift-SS during the pull.
If the tank has enmity on every mob--or even all but a couple--then you're also free to Divine Seal and Regen, using the cooldown after to move near enough the tank that they can Flash off what couple mobs might have turned to you. Seal will be up, you'll be helped, Cure II is ready to spam.
If you still have Swiftcast available at the time DS is gone, I find it useful to Swift-Holy in the center (or safest near-center spot) of the group, again using the cooldown after to reposition. Four seconds of stun on every mob is enough time to do a Stoneskin cast, maybe activate a cooldown (PoM, SoS, or DS if it's up), and still be casting a Cure II.

Several people have posted useful info, but here's what I usually do: Always trail behind your tank. Make sure you catch up quickly (sprint if you must!). If you know/can guess how big he's going to pull, pop Divine Seal as you run behind him. As soon as he stops, you should stop and immediately Cure 2 > run in +Regen the tank > Cleric Stance + Swiftcast + Holy > Spam Holy (save Presence of Mind + Holy for the bigger pulls). Pay attention to your threat and the mobs' hp bar. Use Shroud if needed. Benediction if it's up (I usually save Bene for larger pulls), or just immediately dance out of Cleric Stance and Cure 2 your tank. As mobs are dying, start Stoneskinning the tank. Also, I never, ever use Medica 2 for pulls. There's no need to.

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Originally Posted by Ryfee

Also, I never, ever use Medica 2 for pulls. There's no need to.

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I find it situationally useful. With Divine Seal + Regen + Medica II up, you're looking at 1k HoT ticks. I can sit in cleric stance for the entire duration of the pull without having to blow Benediction.

If his health dropped to 1/4 while pulling I'd let him die because he clearly doesn't know what he's doing.

For large pulls, I usually Eye4Eye=>Divine Seal=>Regen (Medica II if necessary for extra healig ticks)=>top the tank off=>Swiftcast=>Holy and and Holy and Holy and Holy... but the tank has to know waht he's doing.

I never use Medica2 on pack on monsters, I spam divine seal + regen, or Divine Seal + regen, and after 2 or more holy, depending on how can aggro the tank, trying to keep 2k mana if shroud is on CD after every pack of monsters (and I do a pack without dpsing to regen some mana, or with only 1-2 holy), trying to put stoneskin on the tank also beetwin each pack of monsters, begin to cast it when you see the last monster dying.

I dont why medica 2 (ok, from the dragon that does aoe, yes, you need it, for the other, never)

Lot of the "farm" dungeons (like brayflox hm) are usually speed runned even in df, and this is what I do pretty consistently:

stoneskin tank before pull: Divine seal --> cure 2 till he is at least 80% hp --> regen --> shroud --> continue to apply cure or cure 2 depending on the damage, if no significant damage is taken then holy spam a few times to stun and deal damage --> apply regen again when it runs out and tank is at least 80%

if there is aoe damage I tend to use medica 1 or cure 3 if the players are in a good position for that one, not usually medica 2 because the 200 potency is really low, and the tank can actually fall to really low health sometimes when the regen doesnt kick in right away, and the 30 sec regen usually ends up overhealing the dps which is not ideal, if you however know that there is much aoe damage in the fight it is really good to throw one medica 2 there so you don't have to heal the dps that much and it also helps the tank combined with the regen.

Apply PoM there if the tank is taking really heavy damage, sometimes the tanks are not really geared that well and they tend to take so heavy damage you can only spam cure 2 and maybe use bene if the situation needs it, but remember that the aoe stun from the holy is really good if you can get it off without risking the life of the tank, a 4 second moment with no damage usually.

Thx for all the great advice it really helps & is very much appreciated! Seeing the different styles & situations pulled it all together in my head.

I usually throw a regen first thing, but this tank's health was so low couldn't chance the GCD. I wish tanks would remember a healers first time in a duty, they are going in blind so it's difficult to gauge things.

The speed run thing is fine if you are with a group doing a speed run, but this was a first time & I wasn't there to do a speedrun. BUT for every bad run like this one I have 20 good ones including speed runs, so next time instead getting verbally abused by a stranger, I will just leave. Video games bring out ugliness in people that blows my mind & it's not my job to be an angry person's whipping post.

Hopefully with these new tips&tricks, Ill be able to keep the tank up thruout the run and keep his blood pressure down so he doesn't stroke out halfway thru the run rofl!

Tank dying was not your fault, however I noticed you do not have E4E. Level your arcanist for the skill. It can save you in situations like these.

Well, first thing's first: the tank is at fault for causing these problems. As you said -- that many mobs on him, and at 1/4 HP by the time you can catch up and cast anything? That's a joke. No matter how good a healer you are, there's little you can do at that point, especially if he pulls this stunt repeatedly and your cooldowns are blown. From his behaviour, I'll bet he really wants to force a speedrun, and is just using high damage skills rather than defensive abilities.
Second, if you've been healing without regular problems for this long, chances are you are not doing anything fundamentally terrible.
Third, he says you're doing your "rotation" wrong? Baloney, there is no such thing as a healing rotation.

As far as tips, I'd say:
* Regen the tank at the start of a fight, and keep it on at all times. I ease off the Regen if there's one mob left and a fresh cast will persist long after it dies, just because if it's still on when a new group of mobs is encountered it seems to initially draw aggro to me.
* Don't be afraid to use Shroud of Saints often, in bosses or longer fights. It is not an emergency "Low MP" button, but rather something you should be using regularly to avoid having low MP.
* Contrary to what that one person told you, don't put Cleric Stance on. You are a healer, not a DPS. By all means, if everyone's relatively topped up and there are no imminent emergencies, throw it on for a moment and dish out some damage. But that is an extra bonus on top of your regular role, only if the run is a cakewalk.
* Eye for an Eye is an excellent Arcanist cross-class ability. Buff the tank with it, and any mobs that hit him will have their damage output decreased. Naturally, this is more useful the more mobs are whacking on the tank. If there's a big pull coming up, throw it on. I use it all the time, it's great.
* To be perfectly honest, I use regular Cure the majority of the time, and only switch to Cure II when things are getting hairier and the damage is outpacing the heals. Maybe Cure III if it's really bad. As others mentioned, Divine Seal and Presence of Mind are very helpful in a pinch (though I am bad at remembering to use them).
* Are your bonus attributes from leveling put into Mind? Because that's where they belong.
* I used to put Stoneskin on the tank before a lot of fights, but I'm doing it less and less now because I find I'm just standing there watching him, waiting for damage to start registering. Seems kind of pointless. Instead, I put it on me and the more squishy DPS, to lessen the impact of somebody suffering a stray attack or AoE.
* Not sure if this depends on your connection or not, but when I want to cast stuff repeatedly, I don't wait for the cast bar to disappear and the spell to connect. I hit the next spell slightly before the previous cast bar is full, so there is no interruption or downtime.
* A bit hypocritical of me to say, since I haven't actually gotten around to learning it yet, but apparently Swiftcast from THM is a must-have. If somebody does go down in a tough fight, Swiftcast + Raise will make a world of difference.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

* Contrary to what that one person told you, don't put Cleric Stance on. You are a healer, not a DPS. By all means, if everyone's relatively topped up and there are no imminent emergencies, throw it on for a moment and dish out some damage. But that is an extra bonus on top of your regular role, only if the run is a cakewalk.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

* I used to put Stoneskin on the tank before a lot of fights, but I'm doing it less and less now because I find I'm just standing there watching him, waiting for damage to start registering. Seems kind of pointless. Instead, I put it on me and the more squishy DPS, to lessen the impact of somebody suffering a stray attack or AoE.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

* A bit hypocritical of me to say, since I haven't actually gotten around to learning it yet, but apparently Swiftcast from THM is a must-have. If somebody does go down in a tough fight, Swiftcast + Raise will make a world of difference.

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Good healer, you are not.

To be perfectly honest, I use regular Cure the majority of the time, and only switch to Cure II when things are getting hairier and the damage is outpacing the heals. Maybe Cure III if it's really bad.

Since newbie WHMs may look through this thread, it's important to note that unlike Cure I -> Cure II, Cure III does not offer higher healing values for your tank. Cure III is an AoE Heal skill that has lower potency compared to Cure II.


I used to put Stoneskin on the tank before a lot of fights, but I'm doing it less and less now because I find I'm just standing there watching him, waiting for damage to start registering. Seems kind of pointless. Instead, I put it on me and the more squishy DPS, to lessen the impact of somebody suffering a stray attack or AoE.

Lyrinn is correct, but allow me to elaborate:
SSing a tank b4 each pull provides two advantages:
1) Allow time for the tank to build aggro before any heal is needed (Irrelevant with a good tank, but you'll never know what kind of tank you'll end up with in DF :)).
2) Instead of waiting for damage to start registering, break out your cleric stance and Holy 3~4 times, this will provide crazy amount of DPS AS WELL AS crazy amount of mitigation (4s + 2s + 1s of stuns, barring mobs that are immune to stun).
If you're still new and not confident with your MP management, you can still CS and Aero/Aero II a few mobs instead of standing there watching him :)

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Originally Posted by gehrtalert

Thats the same basic thing though right? Stop an enemy from attacking? If not, then whats the difference?Im pretty sure Blizzard 2 has a stun effect to it also. I could be wrong tho. I dont use it much.

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Bind stops them from moving, stun stops them from doing anything. I tend to only start doing holy once I know the tank isn't going to drop dead in 5 seconds without me healing him. Use divine seal then cure II, when you think you can spare a few seconds use regen and eye for an eye if you have that. Sometimes throwing virus out can help too.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

* Contrary to what that one person told you, don't put Cleric Stance on. You are a healer, not a DPS. By all means, if everyone's relatively topped up and there are no imminent emergencies, throw it on for a moment and dish out some damage. But that is an extra bonus on top of your regular role, only if the run is a cakewalk.

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Well, if you enter CS, you have 3-5 seconds until you can exit again.


Other than that you can ALWAYS give the command to exit, even while casting. (It'll immediately drop off after the cast is through)

You can do it, but it's rather irrelevant. Why? See below:

Imho the advice to SPAM holy is suboptimal at best.
If your tank goes to the limit of what you both can do (not talking about herp-a-derping 2 thrashgroups, there you can spam to your hearts content), you will NOT have the time to spam DPS spells. Oo

Usually I use it once in conjunction with instant cast, for the 4s stun duration immediately after all the mobs are in position. Gives me time to heal the tank back up and put the HoT on.
After that, I have to spam the big heal (Vitra?) in conjunction with the 30% heal boost / 50% haste boost or she will die.

Imho using Holy more than 3 times is nonsensical, because of the stun DR and eventual immunity of the mobs. Even the 3rd stun is already < 1s.

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* Are your bonus attributes from leveling put into Mind? Because that's where they belong.

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Disagree. On heavy pulls my WHM is mana limited, not throughput limited. Piety is more useful.

As far as stoneskin is concerned: Surely you can and should put it up before the pull, but imho it absorbs so little that it's hardly worth the cast time midfight. It doesn't even stay on the tank longer than 2 seconds.
I rather use it for the squishies to mitigate encounter based damage spikes.

Please, lock this topic before the retardism rises any more and the white mage reputation drops even lower...

I'm not even sure where to start with this thread; I've rarely seen so much blatantly bad advice.

- Do utilize CS. It's there for a reason, and it absolutely should be used in conjunction with Holy for trash pulls. Not only is Holy a ridiculously effective crowd control, no one needs healing while everything is stunned all to hell, which means that the healer needs to be pulling some DPS weight.

- Always begin and end pulls by Stoneskinning the tank. It is always worth doing and makes runs smoother. The tank should have SS on him/her as the last mob dies so that the dungeon can continue uninterrupted. Stoneskin mid-fight is generally only for specific mechanics.

- Swiftcast is a non-negotiable.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Usually I use it once in conjunction with instant cast, for the 4s stun duration immediately after all the mobs are in position. Gives me time to heal the tank back up and put the HoT on.

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That's crazy talk. If you swiftcast Holy, the mobs will remained stunned until a split second before the next one. You might as well do two for sure. But as I said at the start of this thread, I use it a minimum of 4 times, 6-10 on huge packs when SoS and benediction are ready. When using Holy, WHM can be the top DPS against trash mobs, by a HUGE margin if there's no BLM in the group, and even still against the vast majority of BLM's.

I play on ps4, so good luck accusing me of parsing, but I play with someone who does parse, and I regularly do 1000+ dps on trash (big pulls). Nobody dies except the mobs, which die a hell of a lot faster than if I stood there waiting for the tank to take damage.

Thank you! Finally some people who make sense with their posts!

Yes, most of the advice (if not all) is terrible advice on the previous three pages (page 1-3). Regen tank before pull? Medica II before pull? Divine Seal Cure II spam? Unnecessary and this will create an unnecessarily large risk of getting yourself killed and thus your entire party. Don't even Regen the tank during large pulls unless he/she tagged every single mob with a shield lob/tomahawk or flash/overpower. Performing any action on the tank while in progress of pulling will divert the attention of untagged mobs towards you, rather than the tank.

That said, if the tank isn't tagging everything while pulling and are prone to dying before they reach the end, it's their own fault: Staggerish movement, no use of CDs if it's an exceptionally long pull (Amdapor Keep), inability to tag everything so you can do anything mid pull if necessary.

Whichever approach you decide to go for once everything is gathered up is up to you.