So, supposedly the next turn of coil is the last. What I'm curious to know is, What's next? What type of event does SE have in stock for us? I'm personally getting tired of recycled content every patch and am craving for something fresh and exciting.
1: Larger events. You implemented alliances not long ago, But there's no reason to use it at the moment. When are we going to be able to do end game with our free companies? Events from FFXI such as Einherjar, Legion and Dynamis were so much fun with large numbers, Free companies feel kind of pointless at the moment. As much as I enjoy raiding with my current static I have loads of friends on my server I'd like to raid with, not the same 7 people every week. There are also some newer players who I would love to get clears for, but again lockout prevents you from helping your friends.
2: Remove or reduce the lockout. I know you said you are looking at a way to implement this and I hope you stay true to your word. Allowing us to enter 2-3 times a week would be a huge improvement. Personally I've found getting a static harder than the actual content since second coil was introduced.
3: Remove number requirements. Again, FFXI did this well. Most content can be cleared with lower numbers, So why are you making us take 8 people to something that can be cleared with 6 or 7? If one person doesn't show up, It disrupts the entire event for 7 other people or you have to take a person who you are uncertain can actually perform in the raid.
4: Keep content relevant. Every patch all the gear we grinded for becomes irrelevant due to new content, If you kept some things the same ilvl, we would have more than 1 event to do each week plus all the gear we gain feels like more of an accomplishment. Refering back to FFXI yet again, You had several events that were worth doing a week which made you log in every day. It seems that towards the end of each patch, people login in just for coil then logout until next reset, because there's nothing else to do.
5: Add harder content which is worth doing. Savage was a great idea, but I think more people would attempt it if the rewards were greater than what you get from normal coil.
These are just my ideas and something I've wanted to get off my mind for a while now.
Yes I did refer to FFXI a lot. But the game has been around for over a decade for a reason.
I'd love to hear some more suggestions for end game in future patches.
Some suggestions for future end game raiding.
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09-30-2014, 03:04 AMAudacitySome suggestions for future end game raiding.
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09-30-2014, 07:18 AMAerolite
I agree with this post. There's nothing wrong in taking the good parts of FFXI and implementing them into FFXIV.
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09-30-2014, 03:24 PMruskie
I'm hoping that they will find a way for coil lockouts... really the only thing that annoys me. I'd like to see simple a flag that if you are in a clear you are flagged as you were in a clear and cannot roll in that turn for loot anymore. Simple as that. Nothing fancy no one drop per week and other weird things... It keeps the same loot progression but also allows for people to help out with training/progression parties.
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09-30-2014, 03:33 PMTeryaani
I'm with you on the coil lockouts and variable sized raids (something akin to Flex raiding would be nice). I'd also love to see cross server groupings.
They really should have gated the best gear behind savage coil and hopefully going forward they will. One of the takeaways from WoW that I liked was a three tier raid structure (LFR > Normal > Heroic) and something like that with rewards to match could work here. So for current tier: No drop (story) > 110 (normal) > 120 (savage) for example. Give players a gear incentive to do the savage mode. -
09-30-2014, 03:40 PMTheplatter
Honestly I wish SE would focus on new, original content rather than constantly rehashing old content (HM, Savage, etc.). The exception to this would be revamping the dungeons to allow for non-instance/open world exploration.
I am, however, happy and surprised that no one (yet) quoted the OP and made the routine complaint of "it was in FFXI, it can't be in here". -
09-30-2014, 03:52 PMCrimson-Falcon
coil difficulty is ok the way it is already
hardcore players have enough ego already
while i agree with looking for lockout solution but i dont agree with adding more rewards to savage coil
savage coil was meant to shut up hardcore raiders for challenge but not feeding them more with gears rewards
coil already made people act as elitist jerks showing off in mor dhona
savage coil rewards will make that even worse
they can do same gears with same stats maybe make them dyable at least but not more powerful -
09-30-2014, 04:30 PMruskie
Well to be frank Yoshi said if it does pick up they might add higher tier rewards to savage. But the way I see it it's mostly there for the hardcore to have their fun and their epeen...
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09-30-2014, 04:36 PMSkiasI played XI and personally don't want Dynamis part 2. I want new stuff. XI is behind me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplatter
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09-30-2014, 04:48 PMSynestrThis. Fond memories, but just that. I am enjoying the NEW ones I am making here. I do want the open/world non instanced stuff like others have said. That will be fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Skias
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09-30-2014, 05:04 PMNicobo
Sorry to say I disagree with this post as I read many contradictions. ^^;
It wants fresh and exciting new contents but then wants old contents from FFXi which I am getting tired.
It wants larger events for more players but then wants removing number requirements as contents can be cleared with lower numbers.
It wants removing lockout that increases others' difficulity but then wants harder contents. -
09-30-2014, 05:11 PMExstalI agree. There is pretty 0 reason to have Free Companies because of the fact that you can just put everyone into a linkshell and every person have their own Free Company for extra bag space.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audacity
Until there is a reasonable alternative to lockout issue, this will remain. Many, many, MANY players said CT loot lockout would be good. However if it was so good, SE would have already implemented it. So it's pretty obvious that it's a terrible solution. I personally believe that lockouts are justified when there are many instances that all have lockouts but all have relevant gear to be obtained. For example, if in 3.0 they add 3 different new raids; Dungeon A, a 8 man encounter with 5 bosses and some trash inbetween; Dungeon B, a variable 8~12 man encounter with 4 bosses and no trash; Dungeon C, a 24 man encounter with 4 bosses. All dungeons would yield gear that is on par with each other and gives differing stats, traits, what have you.Quote:
2: Remove or reduce the lockout. I know you said you are looking at a way to implement this and I hope you stay true to your word. Allowing us to enter 2-3 times a week would be a huge improvement. Personally I've found getting a static harder than the actual content since second coil was introduced.
This kind of thinking hinges greatly on the ability of Naoki to bring in horizontal progression. I also believe gear should only have a maximum lifetime of 15 months, after that it should really show that one needs to upgrade.
In some sense, this is a good idea. The way it should likely work is this (speculation), Third Coil is tuned for i110 for first two turns, i118+ for the latter but for a full 8 man party. You can go in with less but chance of success will drop exponentially. If they carry this kind of thing on then it's fine. I'd like to express that I don't believe that 7 great people should be able to clear Third Coil, or any subsequent raid, at the minimally tuned item level. I fully believe if you went into the first two turns at i110 with only 7 people that you should basically fail outright. However, this still falls back to the lockout problem.Quote:
3: Remove number requirements. Again, FFXI did this well. Most content can be cleared with lower numbers, So why are you making us take 8 people to something that can be cleared with 6 or 7? If one person doesn't show up, It disrupts the entire event for 7 other people or you have to take a person who you are uncertain can actually perform in the raid.
This is harder to do because of the nature of the loot we get. It's 100% chance to have something drop and, while it may not be what the players need at the time, it is likely the reason why lockouts exist in the first place. Adding more content would alleviate this problem a little more but still probably cause some other problem, although I don't know what that could be. The only idea I can think of is like in FFIX where you binded your gear to obtain the skills, but limit the binding to specific encounters? I think it would cause more annoyance than joy and might even start a whole new slew of elitism.Quote:
4: Keep content relevant. Every patch all the gear we grinded for becomes irrelevant due to new content, If you kept some things the same ilvl, we would have more than 1 event to do each week plus all the gear we gain feels like more of an accomplishment. Refering back to FFXI yet again, You had several events that were worth doing a week which made you log in every day. It seems that towards the end of each patch, people login in just for coil then logout until next reset, because there's nothing else to do.
As it stands my static is only 3/8 wanting to do savage. The 5 that don't have all the exact same reasoning, "doesn't give better loot than current coil so it's a waste of time.".Quote:
5: Add harder content which is worth doing. Savage was a great idea, but I think more people would attempt it if the rewards were greater than what you get from normal coil.
Word on the grape vine is that savage Coil is a massive failure. People, SE included, failed to realize that people don't continue to raid after first completion because of challenge. First clear of everything eliminates the challenge. So such a foolish decision to implement a harder mode with exactly the same loot was expected to fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon
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09-30-2014, 05:20 PMWellFooled
I think a lot of posters are taking this thread the wrong way. I don't think Audacity asked for any specific content from FFXI to be duplicated in FFXIV, but rather that some of the broad strokes that made that content great in FFXI could also be applied to FFXIV.
Like having more than one type of end game raid. It doesn't have to be Sky and Dynamis exactly, but rather that multiple end game raids can be running side by side each week, like Sky and Dynamis did.
Or having alliance based end game content. Again, he isn't asking for Dynamis itself, but end game content that includes as many participants as Dynamis did.
I have to agree with Audacity for the most part, particularly point number 4. I like end game rewards to have a little more staying power than the timeframe FFXIV uses, but I think something else would have to be added to make stats interesting enough for horizontal gear progression to work. -
10-01-2014, 01:29 AMTeryaaniIf the development path taken so far is any indication, he's tossed horizontal progression out the window. I think we can expect vertical progression in 3.0. Starting out playing WoW, this feels natural to me, but the gear treadmill can get tiresome, even for people who are used to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
Small gripe (not toward you Exstal, trying to conserve posts), As a casual player, the OP's complaint:
doesn't resonate with me. I don't have enough time in game to do the things I want to do now. My crafters aren't three star, I still haven't gotten the i70 FSH main hand, I need to spiritbond for my novus, and I'm prepping to level ROG/NIN. There simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything I want to in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audacity
Quoted for truth. I don't understand the design philosophy of not rewarding harder content with better loot. The concern about the raider ego thing needs to be tossed out the window. I'm never going to be challenging these modes, but someone who puts the effort in should receive a reward for it that is beyond just a title.Quote:
As it stands my static is only 3/8 wanting to do savage. The 5 that don't have all the exact same reasoning, "doesn't give better loot than current coil so it's a waste of time.".
Word on the grape vine is that savage Coil is a massive failure. People, SE included, failed to realize that people don't continue to raid after first completion because of challenge. First clear of everything eliminates the challenge. So such a foolish decision to implement a harder mode with exactly the same loot was expected to fail.
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10-01-2014, 01:36 AMRaxionThis would promote loot-selling. It's something that SE is trying to avoid. A good group could repeatedly sell current-tier boss kills (plus all of the loot from the kill) to people this way. This, of course, would ruin progression and water down new content almost instantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskie
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10-01-2014, 04:03 AMAudacity1: I never said I want specific FFXI content in FFXIV. I used events as an example of what sort of thing would be cool. I ran Dynamis for years, I don't really want to start the exact same thing again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicobo
2: Again, You've missed my point. I just don't see the point in making very specific number requirements. If people want to try stuff with less. More power to them. Look at current content, Coil 2 is being sold by some groups. so it's possible to clear it with 7 people. Twintainia has been cleared by 4 people. Everything else can easily be cleared with less than 8 people. It would also make helping people clear older content a lot easier as you don't have to wait fill up the party with unneeded extra people.
As for implementing this idea in newer content, again. Look at dynamis. You could go in with 64 people, You could go in with 6 people. Hell if you wanted to waste a million gil and enter alone you could do so. It would add an extra element of challenge to the game.
3: I don't even understand the last point you're trying to make.
Also, I'm a human being, not an object, so I'm not sure why you're referring to me as "it"
Thank you. You've hit the nail on the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by wellfooled
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10-01-2014, 04:05 AMGucci_Charms
Bring back weekly Primal Rowena token rewards please. Those were fun.
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10-01-2014, 05:03 AMAlipoprocksThis argument seems to get brought up every time someone requests lockout change/removal. This whole game promotes loot-selling right now as it is. But by having lockouts, it prevents enjoyment from many people. There have been numerous posts from people about their frustrations of building and/or maintaining a static. People want to help their friends who may only have 5 people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raxion
The good far outweighs the bad by removing or changing lockout rules. Runs get sold right now for everything anyway so I don't agree with that argument. Lockouts don't prevent sales. -
10-01-2014, 06:06 AMKiaraTotally agree with the OP and Alipop's point here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alipoprocks
* There's *already* "loot / clear-selling" going on even with a Weekly Lockout.
Yoshi P talks about community, theme park and making it friendly for everyone, but in reality End Game is Exclusionary: It's you and 7 other people, and that's it.
You can't help your Free Company mates out. You can't help any LS members. You can't help out Friends.
What's the point of a Free Company or Linkshell if all the End Game content is designed *only* for 8 specific people and everyone else gets left out (or has to form exact party sizes of 8)? :(
"Loot Selling / Clear Selling" is always the same excuse Yoshi P brings up, when in reality as Alipop said, the GOOD *far* outweighs the Bad:
Being able to go through End Game more than once per week, to party with friends outside your Static, or help out FC / LS members, etc., and getting more excitement and life in the game FAR outweighs worries about "Loot Selling" (which happens already even now w/ the awful lockout).
It ties into the bad decisions made overall. If Yoshi P chose to make OTHER valuable drops appear, or make the drops less than 100% (but NOT something super low), it could be more sustainable (and again, more Horizontal Progression would help as well). Here's an example of an older Final Fantasy Boss and what it dropped:
KIRIN
* Kirin's Osode (39.2%)
* Kirin's Pole (47.7%)
* Dryadic Abjuration: Body (40.7%) (up to 2)
* Neptunal Abjuration: Body (27.6%) (up to 2)
* Wyrmal Abjuration: Legs (26.1%) (up to 2)
* Scroll of Quake (30.3%) (up to 2)
* Scroll of Raise III (17.6%) (up to 2)
* Orichalcum Ingot (22.8%) (up to 2)
* Shining Cloth (32.3%) (up to 2)
* Damascus Ingot (39.5%) (up to 2)
And these Crafting Materials were valuable (in the early years of this game). They were Rare and sought-after.
The bad Itemization in this game is crippling: Boring, limited stats - "Guess what the new Item Level 700 Helmet for DRG is going to be?" "Let me guess... more +STR and +VIT" LOL. :( There's no imagination, no creativity in the gear stats. No Horizontal Progression. Just pure Lockouts and simple gear.
He can change this, which would improve the longevity of FF XIV dramatically. Here's to hoping we get some changes (because I'd like to see this game succeed for years to come)! :) -
10-01-2014, 04:44 PMNicoboYour goal appeared to be good. So I intended using "it" to state that I was talking about the content in your post. ^^;Quote:
Originally Posted by Audacity
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10-01-2014, 09:22 PMSynestrI liked and I am going to quote it, we all need to read this again! Very well put and makes so much sense. This idea needs to be spread to Masa P's attentions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
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10-01-2014, 09:37 PMRaxionLockouts don't prevent them, but they massively limit them. Sell one run a week with lockouts (while also giving up your own chance at loot for the week), or sell 18 runs a day without them. Surely you can do simple math.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alipoprocks
With no lockouts, most people would finish new content within a much shorter time than they do now. This isn't good for the health of the game. With SE giving us only 4 boss encounters per major patch, unlocking the current raid tier just isn't a viable option. I understand that people want to raid freely with their friends, but they want to ignore the fact that their suggestion would be exploited to hell and also completely ruin the game's progression raiding.
Every good MMORPG has weekly raid lockouts. It's part of the genre. I just don't understand why so many people choose to complain about it in this game specifically. -
10-01-2014, 10:26 PMWarlyx
Coil as instance is "meh" ,feels like FFXIII , just keep going ahead , no way to get lost and scenary is boring....
1 raid with 4 boss for the week is a joke.
in 1 year no1 is going to say , omg remember the days of Coil of bahamuth? (cross fingers for third coil)
i still remember my days on FFXI Sky / sea .
more endgame than the last raid could help, extreme primals (rowena tokens) helped a bit but after farming every weapon there was no point .
more bosses and more dynamic battlefields, tired of fighting bosses on a lame circle ....
2nd coil fights are better , more fun , but i still miss interacting with the enviroment somehow... -
10-01-2014, 11:39 PMLegendWait
I was thinking about something that would be cool;
A fight thats like a dps check, kinda where you have to escape some structure that's about to expode and kill mobs that are blocking your path. -
10-02-2014, 12:12 AMWellGramaryeQuote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
You forgot the wind/earth crystal (I don't remember which it was..) that would drop 100% and be the ONLY drop sometimes. -
10-02-2014, 01:35 AMEinheri
Hey guys,
Just wanted to add my thoughts on the matter. First off I don't see the current system changing before the xpac if at all.
Looking back at content progression in 2.0, I think with fewer levels to go through in the xpac a more defined content progression will ensue. As we look back to ARR launch there was a break down in the content progression because Coil was released before CT, and dungeons were almost never used for the gear they dropped but merely as the quickest way to a currency cap.
A few changes I would like in the for future with regards to content progression;
1. Dungeons with useful loot and a max Ilvl sync so they never become completely arbitrary. This would be the entry level for content progression.
2. 3.0 Version of the CT to be the entry point of raiders.
3. For CT add random bonus parameters to trigger extra loot chests a with separate weekly loot lock, i.e. Kill X boss with out killing their minions, don't allow players to be hit by y spell. This would add incentives to get FC/Alliance groups and more teamwork between the parties.
4. Add a CT Hard mode- This (possibly a 8 man version) would allow those who want a more adventure-ish type of raid, with trash (CC) and exploration, varying bosses and mechanics, and non combat encounters. This would have a weekly lock like coil on access instead of weekly allowance on loot like normal CT.
5. 3.0 Coil would continue to have highest Ilvl rewards and relevant content difficulty. Maintains the weekly locks. Increase number of turns to 7-9 bosses per Coil.
6. After completing coil an additional weekly quest would become available, completing the coil with this quest would grant a currency to spend on coil loot that RNG deems you unworthy of. I.E.- 4-6 weekly completions for Accessories, 6-8 for minor armor, 8-10 for major armor, 12-15 for weapon.
7.Savage coil being available in place of regular coil locks, once regular coil is completed. Same amount of rewards and ilvl but the gear should be visually distinct. Dye-able armor, more pointy bits, visual effects on chest and glowing weapons.
8.Sync Max Ilvl for Savage version with that turns max. So having those items/weapons are always an achievement but not gated by time.
Examples of Ilvl progression.
Dungeons= 200 (Max ilvl sync to 210)
Lesser tomes= 205
3.0 CT= 210 Armor
3.0 H-Primals= 210 Accessories and weapons (mixed table)
Crafted gear= 205-215 depending on melds
3.0 CT Hard= 215 Armor
3.0 X-Primals= 215 Accessories and quest for weapons.
Major Tomes= 215
3.0 Coil= 220 with 225 weapons (ilvl's 200 to enter, 210 to be expected)
ILvl Inflation 1;
HM Dungeon= 210 (max ilvl sync to 220)
Lesser Tome= 215
Secont CT= 220 armor
Crafted Gear= 215-225 depending on melds
Second H-CT= 225 armor
X-Primals= 225 accessories. Extra chest with weapon triggered by random extra fight parameter.
Major Tome= 230
Second coil= 240 with 245 Wep (ilvl 220 expected)
Ilvl Inflation 2;
Expert Dungeons=220 (Max ilvl sync to 230)
Lesser Tomes=230
Third CT= 235 Armor
Crafted-235-240 Depending on Melds
Third CT Hard-240 Armor
X-Primals= 240 accessories. Extra chest with weapon triggered by random extra fight parameter.
Major Tomes= 250
Third Coil= 260 with 265 Wep (ilvl 240 expected) -
10-02-2014, 01:38 AMAlipoprocksIn other games with lockouts, you can only level one job. So you have multiple characters. I don't know a single person that plays "other" MMOs and doesn't have multiple characters. When you only have one job or class per character, lockouts for that character makes more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raxion
Also, I don't see the point in preventing people (that can actually clear it) from running content as often as they want. People quit, come and go, anyway even with lockouts.
The arguments for lockouts are weak. -
10-02-2014, 02:03 AMGucci_Charms
I don't know what they have in mind as a solution to the lockout and RNG life we deal with weekly.
One of the things I wish I could do, however, was be able to help my other friends, LS, or FC members with their wins. As much as I like hanging out with my static, it would be nice to group with other people you like playing with rather than the other 7 people you are stuck with weekly to clear end-game content. -
10-02-2014, 02:06 AMzoomThe issue with this is that a person can ask (buy) a team to do a turn for him to loot... But yep, of course I agree with you for a kind of solution like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskie
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10-02-2014, 02:16 AMAudacityI'm sorry but I really disagree with this, if you have the capability to complete the hardest content in the game you deserve to be rewarded. Just because you don't believe you can beat it or can't put the time in. Doesn't mean that should hold back others from getting better loot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon
And as for showing off, of course people are going to. You beat the hardest content in the game. -
10-16-2014, 08:56 PMCrimson-Falconyou know that savage coil was meant for less than 0.5% in whole playerbaseQuote:
Originally Posted by Audacity
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10-16-2014, 09:26 PMruskieSee I don't care about that. I see run sellers/loot sellers and even have a few people that bought such services. I don't agree with it - it's often the lazy way out - so I won't use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by zoom
But I see it as being helpful. Maybe not in the first patch cycle but mid patch cycle they could lift that restriction(so after 3 months). That way the inital tier of raiders area already getting their clears and so on and can then help out training or progression parties. People are already preselling scob runs as it is for 2.4. -
10-16-2014, 10:41 PMXatshI am not even sure if it is that high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon
More people would try it, but doing something hard with no reward turns away the majority of those who want harder content to begin with.
They should remove the lockout on savage. Normal coil = normal lockout, savage = no lockout same gear. That would of worked if they want it to have the same gear.