what happened to inner beast?

I remember back in the old days of 2.0 when us warriors were squishy inner beast was a great skill that reatored alot of hp. It was a life saver of aome aort but now it restores so little. Why was that even changed? You guys turned a good skill into one that barely has a use anymore, can you guys please restore it to ita former glory ? Yes I understand that there probably have been many threads about this but seeing as I took a long break and had to start fresh I havent had the chance to lvl war untill now.

Basically instead of using it after a big hit to heal yourself up, now you can use it before a big hit to top yourself off, and then to reduce the damage taken from that big hit.

Did you even play WAR pre-2.1? It was regularly ostracized from content because it was a steaming pile of monkey excrement。　The changes allowed it to actually be considered for content.

It used to restore triple the HP it does now. SE decided with the massive healing boost WAR got from tweaking everything else that they should tone that part of the healing down. It's fine.

Inner Beast is 10000x better now than in 2.0. It takes more skill, has higher rewards, actually scales with content, and is no longer wasted just cuz the WHM topped you off.

Read what it does now, and use your brain a little on all the myriad ways it can be used now compared to before. Protip: It's the reason why (good) WARs became the de-facto tanks for Twintania right after the WAR buffs hit.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Did you even play WAR pre-2.1? It was regularly ostracized from content because it was a steaming pile of monkey excrement。　The changes allowed it to actually be considered for content.

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I mained a war pre 2.1

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Originally Posted by SevValen

barely has a use

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Yeah, defensive cooldowns are dumb. Don't know why so many tanks use them.

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Originally Posted by SevValen

I mained a war pre 2.1

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Then you'll remember lolWAR to anything harder than storymode dungeons, right?

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Originally Posted by SevValen

You guys turned a good skill into one that barely has a use anymore, can you guys please restore it to ita former glory ?

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Barely used? Are you kidding? It's as bread and butter to boss fights as overpower is to dungeon runs. You use it all the freaking time. It's way more effective now than it was before. Reread the description on it.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Then you'll remember lolWAR to anything harder than storymode dungeons, right?

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I actually enjoyed proving those people wrong in some instances that were harder than story but I never attempted coil though I do remember an old youtuber that cleared t4 as a war way back then

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Originally Posted by SevValen

I remember back in the old days of 2.0 when us warriors were squishy inner beast was a great skill that reatored alot of hp. It was a life saver of aome aort but now it restores so little. Why was that even changed? You guys turned a good skill into one that barely has a use anymore, can you guys please restore it to ita former glory ? Yes I understand that there probably have been many threads about this but seeing as I took a long and had to start fresh I havent had the chance to lvl war untill now.

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I didn't start maining WAR seriously until after 2.1 when most of the changes were made, so I cannot comment on the amount of HP restored by the ability. However, what it also has tacked onto it is a six second, 20% damage reduction. Which is very handy, but only if it is timed properly (i.e. when tanking in T5).

I still feel like many Warriors aren't able to fulfill their roles as "Reactive Tanks" in this game as well as Paladins can fulfill their roles as "Proactive Tanks".

Every healing ability a Warrior has (Other than Inner Beast powered up with Berserk, which can only be done once every 90 seconds and doesn't even stack up when compared with a regular Cure spell) can be completely dwarfed by a single tick of Regen. Even an entire duration of Bloodbath and wailing on the opponent like mad can't heal nearly as much as is needed. A large issue is that the heals are directly based on damage dealt, much like a Blood Sword, when instead there should be some percentile bonuses to the damage healed based on Max HP.

Taking a closer look at the differences between PLD and WAR abilities, it is pretty clear to me that Defiance has two crippling aspects as opposed to Shield Oath:

1. It has a 5% higher damage dealt debuff than Shield Oath. I'd be more than willing to take a 5% cut to HP if it meant getting 5% more damage each turn, especially since that is what Warriors are built for.

2. Every stack of wrath grants a 2% Crit Chance. Even at max stacks (which don't last long anyway), this is only a 10% increase. I'd rather have a flat 10% damage boost.

Then there are the class-specific temp buffs.

Warrior gets, as exclusive buffs that a Paladin cannot use, Berserk, Thrill of Battle, and Vengeance.

Paladin gets, as exclusive buffs that a Warrior cannot use, Rampart, Fight or Flight, Sentinel, Tempered Will, and Bulwark.

Not only does Paladin have more abilities than Warrior does, and not only do Paladins get more useful cross-class abilities (Foresight and Bloodbath come to mind, especially Foresight), while Warrior gets the short end of the stick (Provoke is great, Awareness is stupid, and Flash isn't desperately needed, considering Warriors already have at least one AoE Aggro generator by that point) but they also get a buff that grants a 30% increase in damage, something far more suited to a Warrior. But since Warriors already have Berserk, which is also a damage increase buff, let's compare the two abilities:

Fight or Flight: Increases damage by 30% for 20 seconds (30 second duration with the trait)
Berserk: Increases damage by 50% for 15 seconds, with a 5 second Pacification placed on the user when Berserk ends. (20 second duration with the trait)

The extra 20% damage is nice, but for a job that is meant to be healing and extending its own HP as much as possible due to lack of defensive buffs, Warriors really should have something more lucrative and without drawback. I'd be willing, as a Warrior, to take a 10% damage cut on Berserk just to ditch the Pacification that follows. Either that, or I'd want Fight or Flight to be a Cross Class ability for Warriors, especially considering that Paladins can already take a Marauder's Foresight.

I should also remark on each one's cross-class abilities from other jobs.

Namely, the usefulness of Second Wind on Warriors vs. Protect/Stoneskin on Paladins. First and foremost, I should ask why Second Wind is based off physical attack power rather than Max HP. For something meant to be an emergency cooldown ability, its healing ability is rather inadequate. I find a single Regen tick heals for about 150% more, even with Convalescence. On the other hand, Protect and Stoneskin are universally helpful on Paladins, who have many opportunities in any given battle to cast and give healers a breather.

Sorry for turning your post into a rant. At first, I was just looking for info on how Inner Beast got nerfed, then I decided to compare abilities between Warrior and Paladin, which just kinda started setting me off at how inadequate one job is at doing its job of taking heavy damage and healing it back in an adequate amount and having a lot of pretty rubbish cross-class abilities that almost never see any use whatsoever (Provoke is really the only good one), versus a job that gets a ton of relevant buffs not only from itself, but from each of its cross-classes (Foresight, Protect, Stoneskin, and Bloodbath are all useful to a Paladin).

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Originally Posted by SevValen

I actually enjoyed proving those people wrong in some instances that were harder than story but I never attempted coil though I do remember an old youtuber that cleared t4 as a war way back then

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Sometimes, when the group in general was over geared especially the healers, such things were possible. Warrior was at a mathematical disadvantage that needed severely fixed. That war who cleared t4 likely did so on the backs of some excellent healers.

No worries hakuro your post is good here infact you did bring up some good points

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Sometimes, when the group in general was over geared especially the healers, such things were possible. Warrior was at a mathematical disadvantage that needed severely fixed. That war who cleared t4 likely did so on the backs of some excellent healers.

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Doesn't matter if he had excellent healers or not the fact that he was able to make it that far and beat it was an amazing feat that no one else could do

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Originally Posted by SevValen

Doesn't matter if he had excellent healers or not the fact that he was able to make it that far and beat it was an amazing feat that no one else could do

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So the fact that it took one of the best Warriors in the game to be up to the standard of a normal Paladin was OK?

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Originally Posted by Miitan

So the fact that it took one of the best Warriors in the game to be up to the standard of a normal Paladin was OK?

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It gave other warriors a beacon of hope so that they one day could make it there to, it made alot of us want to improve on what we did to try to makes ourselves better. Also it was the enjoyment of proving others wrong that kind of makes me wsh the old war would return atleast for a short amount of time

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Originally Posted by SevValen

Doesn't matter if he had excellent healers or not the fact that he was able to make it that far and beat it was an amazing feat that no one else could do

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I think the real problem here is that it was such a struggle to begin with... I remember pre 2.1 every time i saw i got a WAR tank i died a little inside because i had to heal them. They were completely inferior to PLDs hands down. The update made them equal. Inner Beast is awesome now.

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Originally Posted by SevValen

It gave other warriors a beacon of hope so that they one day could make it there to, it made alot of us want to improve on what we did to try to makes ourselves better. Also it was the enjoyment of proving others wrong that kind of makes me wsh the old war would return atleast for a short amount of time

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Don't worry, there's still plenty of idiots who think WAR is still inferior to PLD. You can enjoy proving them wrong instead of intentionally wanting WAR to be worse.

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Originally Posted by SevValen

Doesn't matter if he had excellent healers or not the fact that he was able to make it that far and beat it was an amazing feat that no one else could do

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...what?

You can talk about the "glory days" of completing harder content on a completely inferior tank, however please understand that those achievements were paid for by healers who had to work twice as hard to make it possible. A warrior completing the harder content back then was not due to the skill or the warrior, it was due to the healers placing that sorry excuse for a tank on their backs and carrying him. So "that he was able to make it that far" is not something to be proud of, just like paying a group to carry you through coil is not something to be proud of.

After the changes though, I think it's a great balance. I still find they are slightly harder to heal than PLDs (in a few cases), but it's never such a noticeable disadvantage that I groan whenever I have to heal one. They are a nice viable class now, and they are insane in frontlines.

@HakuroDK: Convalescence can be used on Warrior as well, and Featherfoot and Internal Release are nothing to be scoffed at. Protect on PLD is pretty much garbage except in low level dungeons. WHM gets a magic defense boost on their Protect so you always want them casting it. WAR and PLD are not as far apart as you think. In fact my FC tanks are recently preferring WAR over PLD as current content gives lots of opportunities to DPS with Defiance off when you aren't the MT and waiting on a tank swap and WAR just seems to perform better in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Sometimes, when the group in general was over geared especially the healers, such things were possible. Warrior was at a mathematical disadvantage that needed severely fixed. That war who cleared t4 likely did so on the backs of some excellent healers.

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WAR was actually a better OT than PLD in 2.0 for T4, mainly due to the snap threat + damage. Berserk + Bloodbath was still no joke and IB/SP was rarely used as OT in T4, the only real changes now are that OP is faster, SC is actually worth it, and Vengeance has a damage reduction tied to it now. Things are definitely better for us post-2.0, but T4 was never really a problem in the first place.

Unless, of course, this WAR MT'd T4... in which case he was definitely carried by his healers. I also remember a 2.0 2x WAR comp completing T5, to which most people congratulated the healers on a job well done. :P

i miss the old inner beast healing and i feel warrioirs self heal motif has been compromised now adays an inner beast crit could of been able to heal for over 3k hp

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Originally Posted by SevValen

Doesn't matter if he had excellent healers or not the fact that he was able to make it that far and beat it was an amazing feat that no one else could do

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I'm pretty sure that a tank requires healers to stay alive... Which means the testament of a tank getting through content more on the healers than the tank, no?

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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From what I've seen, MTing and OT are different beasts all together. You'd prefer a tank who's capable of getting high aggro really fast on the spot, as well as being able to put up a good amount of damage during off times to be OT. Though the topic is more on the war/pld comparison for tanking in general. There shouldn't be a huge difference in potential between the two tanks no matter the tanking task.

Inner Beast is great since it provides really high uptime mitigation against "tank killer" mechanics like Death Sentence and Raven's Beak. And it helps top you up to take those hits. This is much, much better than it healing for 3x as much but with no mitigation.

I think that Bloodbath should be stronger and I wish for better cross-class skills (or, at least some kind of buff to the ones we do get featherfoot does nothing at all in SCoB, second wind is little more than rounding error), but IB was definitely buffed with the changes as was Warrior as a whole.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I'm pretty sure that a tank requires healers to stay alive... Which means the testament of a tank getting through content more on the healers than the tank, no?

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im aware that tanks need healers but seeing as the old ib gave a big heal im sure that move helped alot in keeping him alive not just the heals from healers.

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Originally Posted by SevValen

im aware that tanks need healers but seeing as the old ib gave a big heal im sure that move helped alot in keeping him alive not just the heals from healers.

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Healing does not save you from getting one shot'd/eating 90% of your hp from death sentences being weaved into auto attacks, and especially when it places a healing debuff on the tank. Damage mitigation skills are far far more reliable in this case.

Maybe its just me, I loved that skill and miss it the way it was.... I'll have to try to get used to the way it is now

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Then you'll remember lolWAR to anything harder than storymode dungeons, right?

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I didn't WAR pre 2.1, but coming from a SCH even Stone Vigil normal or higher you'd cringe seeing a WAR in party queueing in pre 2.1.

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Originally Posted by SevValen

im aware that tanks need healers but seeing as the old ib gave a big heal im sure that move helped alot in keeping him alive not just the heals from healers.

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You do realize that moves like Twintania's Death Sentence, Nael's Ravensbeak can one-shot you right? why on earth would you want a bigger heal if you are already dead when you can have a 20% damage reduction that can keep you alive.

No one remembers my steel cyclone healing combo in 1.23. Solo tanking groups of level 50 mobs by yourself back in the day. I loved war pre ARR. 2.0 war was garbage and unbalanced but now it is somewhat decent but still no way was it as good as it was in 1.23.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

No one remembers my steel cyclone healing combo in 1.23. Solo tanking groups of level 50 mobs by yourself back in the day. I loved war pre ARR. 2.0 war was garbage and unbalanced but now it is somewhat decent but still no way was it as good as it was in 1.23.

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2.0 WAR was the result of 1.23 WAR. Yoshi-P decided it was PLD's time to shine. Thankfully it didn't last too long!

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

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Defiance is not worse than shield oath. The damage reduction means nothing because defiance is a tanking ability, when you are tanking you aren't meant to be dealing damage. The only exception being inner beast. An ability that is not effected by defiances damage penalty. Not only that but you have unchained which nullifies the damage penalty allowing you to benefit from defiance without any drawbacks for 20 seconds.

10% crit rate is incredible. Unchained + berserk + internal release + blood bath + infuriate gives you +50% attack power, removes your damage penalty, gives you a +20% crit rate and makes every hit restore hp.

Fight or flight compared to berserk. Yes fight or flight is an incredible ability and is the envy of every other job. Problem being it is on PLD. PLD has low attack power and low potency. Even with +30% damage I can barely break 1k spirits withins and 800 rage of halones.

Warrior on the other hand has decent potency and by using berserk to increase their attack power by 50% combined with storms eye, reducing their targets slashing resistance by 10%, they can reach a good 1.2k butcher's blocks and inner beasts easily, especially with their heightened crit rate that I mentioned before.

Now as for cross classes. As has been said protect is useless, you'll always have someone who can do it better or equal to what you can do. Stoneskin is useful on PLD yes, because PLD can make use of it having the mp pool and mp regeneration ability to keep it up. If a WAR got stoneskin it would maybe be able to use it once before draining it's entire mp pool. You can also make the comparison of stoneskin to a WARs storms path. Healing for half the damage dealt and reducing the targets damage dealt by 10%.

Second wind is once again something that should be used in conjunction with berserk and internal release. A second wind can crit for 1.2k when under berserk because you get a 50% attack power increase and the curing of second wind is based on attack power. I don't know why you think it's odd that second wind is effected by attack power. If it was effected by curing magic potency it would do next to nothing as WAR has absolutely no curing magic potency while it has attack power in abundance.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Defiance is not worse than shield oath. The damage reduction means nothing because defiance is a tanking ability, when you are tanking you aren't meant to be dealing damage. The only exception being inner beast. An ability that is not effected by defiances damage penalty. Not only that but you have unchained which nullifies the damage penalty allowing you to benefit from defiance without any drawbacks for 20 seconds.

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And he kinda forgot about maim + storm's eye too. PLD has fight or flight and that's pretty much it. The amount of aggro war can generate in a short amount of time is ridiculous which gives him time later on to spam maim combos even as MT without losing aggro.

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Originally Posted by SevValen

Doesn't matter if he had excellent healers or not the fact that he was able to make it that far and beat it was an amazing feat that no one else could do

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Actually it entirely depended on if he had excellent healers. I myself was practicing Turn 4 as a warrior when the buffs were made. I know exactly what I'm talking about here due to personal experience.
In the long run it literally doesn't matter. The class was unbalanced and they patched it away long ago.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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Certain aspects of War were better, but their survivability due to lack of effective cooldowns was a massive detractor from any benefits warrior had. If the warrior was dead on the ground it served nobody.


For the record I too was in the "show them how useful we really can be!" train of thought. In the end it didn't matter. We simply didn't have the ability to take big hits. All that healing meant nothing if you were already dead. Especially considering the meta-game here consists of defending against large predicable hits on either a timer or part of a boss rotation.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

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The point he was trying to make that a lot of warrior's "mitigation" tools came from self healing in the form of damage leech, which depends on attack power. This is only under tanking circumstances though. Outside of that, warrior is pretty damn capable of dpsing, more so than a paladin using sword oats. They practically have a 20% damage boost from maim.

He was speaking more on the tanking spectrum though rather than damage in the end.

Your healing bonus from heals as been added intodefiance instead of rely on 5 stacks. Now war can you spend it's 5 stacks to do damage. Pre-boost your healing received boost was tied to you stacks so if you used your stacks every time it was up, you made your healers heal you drastically more. Now you can use your stacks without gimp in you heals. This wayyyyyyy overpowers the healing lost from the old inner beast. Your complaining about the nerfed to 1 move, and ignoring all the other balances that came with it.