So considering the size of the servers....

Housing topic (sorry, hit wrong button)

Why can't we have 14 wards per district per server? I say 14 because ff14, though really I think we should have more.

I mean, right now, there is such a heavy limit on housing locations so those prices really do hurt the pocket. However, if there were more houses, then there wouldn't need to be such a heavy rush to buy houses and the prices would actually go down over time instead of everyone fighting to grab them the very moment one drops enough in price.

So here are my proposed thoughts:

1) Increase the number of wards along with the size of each ward.

2) Increase the percentage of large/medium houses. Instead of 10% (3 per 30), 20% (6 per 30) large houses would make it so that more people can acquire a large house, which is likely the goal of many players. Right now, medium is about 23% (7 per 30). If we could bump that up to about 40% (12 per 30), that would allow more people to get at least a medium house. With that said, if they double the ward sizes, I'd like to see somewhere around 12 Large, 24 Medium, and 24 Small per ward.

3) Set a limit of 1 FC house and 1 Player house per account per server.

4) Add housing in the Mor Dhona/Coerthas area.

5) (not sure if this is already the case) After a certain amount of time has passed since the player (or FC-any member of) last logged in or got service (whichever is more recent), say 6 to 12 months, the house is released and the player can pick up their items next time they log in, if ever.

6) upgrade-able houses. If we could slightly rearrange the plots so that we could actually expand on the plots, we could potentially have it so everyone starts with a small house and then slowly work their way up to a large house through expansions and upgrades.

These would make housing more available to player and provide players with more chances to get larger housing which are severely limited at this time.

They are doubling the amount of wards in 2.4

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

They are doubling the amount of wards in 2.4

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I think adding more wards would be just as important though. Simply doubling the amount of wards will only help so much.

Think of it this way: Right now we have.... 30 per ward? With 8 wards, and 3 housing districts, that is ideally 720 houses? Doubling that would make it 1440 houses.

Now, Here is the big issue: Number of large houses. These are what many people are aiming for and thus the biggest competition and is what is really breaking the pocket.

That is what? 3 per ward? So 8 wards is 24, 3 districts is 72. Double that would be 144?

Now, if we could get get more wards, even just 14 wards....

14*2*9=28*9=252 large houses.

Assuming that each of the top 100 FCs (counting active size specifically) were to get large houses, That would leave 44 personal houses in the first case where they only double it and 152 in the second case where they also add more wards.

Plus, 14 would be a nice number for beauty reasons. I do kind of hope that they add housing to the mor dhona/coerthas area in addition to that though.

They are just gonna keep adding as many as they technically can, as quickly as they can. It's just taking some time to develop. It's not a deliberate choice to restrict us to so few wards.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

They are doubling the amount of wards in 2.4

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by say double the amount of wards can mean :

1. the wards we have atm will be double
2. the wards add will be double

so dont bet on anything, yet

they could have 100 wards and people would still get left out.

There are actually 24 wards per server. They are just split between Lavender Beds/Mist/The Goblet.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

There are actually 24 wards per server. They are just split between Lavender Beds/Mist/The Goblet.

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Sorry, I wrote that wrong and corrected it now.

Btw, does anyone have a link to where it says that they are doubling the wards?

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

Sorry, I wrote that wrong and corrected it now.

Btw, does anyone have a link to where it says that they are doubling the wards?

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Here.

well If I remember right each server can hold up to 7000 or more characters.

then add in the additional characters added into the server by new players or existing players (increasing the demand to above 7000 or more) there is still not enough land to provide for majority of the players in High/medium populated servers even if all players have the gil to buy housing.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

well If I remember right each server can hold up to 7000 or more characters.

then add in the additional characters added into the server by new players or existing players (increasing the demand to above 7000 or more) then adding in the factor that there is no limit to how many housing a player can buy there is still not enough land to provide for majority of the players in High/medium populated servers even if all players have the gil to buy housing.

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A single character can only own 1 fc house and 1 personal house. So there is a limit.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

Housing topic (sorry, hit wrong button)

Why can't we have 14 wards per district per server? I say 14 because ff14, though really I think we should have more.

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Why do you want 14 if we can have 16? ^^

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Originally Posted by Lii

A single character can only own 1 fc house and 1 personal house. So there is a limit.

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but each acc can have up to 8 character and each of character can have 1 FC house and 1 personal house, so a player can have up to...8 personal small house (lets say small house as they are cheap). You can expect there are ppl have more than 2 house on same acc.

SE should had make it 1 private house/acc and share between all character in same acc, this is the true limit

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

So considering the size of the servers....

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Please do tell, how big are the servers?

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

SE should had make it 1 private house/acc and share between all character in same acc, this is the true limit

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On same server would be better than on same account.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

but each acc can have up to 8 character and each of character can have 1 FC house and 1 personal house, so a player can have up to...8 personal small house (lets say small house as they are cheap). You can expect there are ppl have more than 2 house on same acc.

SE should had make it 1 private house/acc and share between all character in same acc, this is the true limit

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That doesn't change what I said. The person I was replying to said there was no limit but there is a limit currently. You just feel its too big. Current limit is 40 characters per account, so 40 personal houses and 40 fc houses.

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Originally Posted by Felis

On same server would be better than on same account.

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either way is fine, the point is keep it 1 personal house and 1 FC house per player and stop them from get many house

I definitely agree on the thought process of making it so that each account can only get one house per server.

As for how many players are on... At any given time, you can have as many as 100 active players on a hunt from personal experience, then looking at my linkshells and fc, I can see likely over a thousand unique players all reasonably high level, many of which are on daily.

That being said, very likely we do have about 2000-4000 players per server that are somewhat active and reasonably high level. Out of that, we can assume about half of them want houses.

That means that to reasonably expect to provide enough housing for everyone that wants a house, we'd likely need about 1000-2000 houses. This is assuming a reasonably small server like Famfrit.

On a larger server with more people, we'd likely need to double that number or even triple it so indeed, even doubling the size of the wards and doubling the number of wards won't be a perfect solution. Really, we'd need about 30 to 50 double sized wards to reasonably expect to accommodate everyone.

Of course, this won't guarantee that everyone will get a large house unless they were to make the expansion of the housing area include more large houses.

I see that SE is saying that they plan to double the size of the wards so I'm assuming that my initial assumption is correct that they are planning to increase the ward sizes themselves rather than increasing the number of wards.

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So here are my proposed thoughts:

1) Increase the number of wards.

2) Increase the percentage of large/medium houses. Instead of 10% (3 per 30), 20% (6 per 30) large houses would make it so that more people can acquire a large house, which is likely the goal of many players. Right now, medium is about 23% (7 per 30). If we could bump that up to about 40% (12 per 30), that would allow more people to get at least a medium house. With that said, if they double the ward sizes, I'd like to see somewhere around 12 Large, 24 Medium, and 24 Small per ward.

3) Set a limit of 1 FC house and 1 Player house per account per server.

4) Add housing in the Mor Dhona/Coerthas area.

5) upgrade-able houses. If we could slightly rearrange the plots so that we could actually expand on the plots, we could potentially have it so everyone starts with a small house and then slowly work their way up to a large house through expansions and upgrades.

These would make housing more available to player and provide players with more chances to get larger housing which are severely limited at this time.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

As for how many players are on... At any given time, you can have as many as 100 active players on a hunt from personal experience, then looking at my linkshells and fc, I can see likely over a thousand unique players all reasonably high level, many of which are on daily.

That being said, very likely we do have about 2000-4000 players per server that are somewhat active and reasonably high level. Out of that, we can assume about half of them want houses.

That means that to reasonably expect to provide enough housing for everyone that wants a house, we'd likely need about 1000-2000 houses. This is assuming a reasonably small server like Famfrit.

On a larger server with more people, we'd likely need to double that number or even triple it so indeed, even doubling the size of the wards and doubling the number of wards won't be a perfect solution. Really, we'd need about 30 to 50 double sized wards to reasonably expect to accommodate everyone.

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You can't just pull numbers out of nowhere and expect it to be considered a reasonable argument.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

You can't just pull numbers out of nowhere and expect it to be considered a reasonable argument.

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I'm basing it off of the players that I've seen doing end game content (anything past 50 in this case) on my server as well as information provided during the latest patch.

My point was more of that out of the players I've seen, it is likely only a fraction of the total player base that can get houses, but out of all the players, there are only so many that really want houses.

Again, the numbers I'm using are purely based on personal observation based on factors like party finder, players in FCs with houses, people that are on during random player searches, etc.

I am not counting anyone who is an obvious bot or who is low level+new adventurer in this thought process.

And that we really need a lot more housing to accommodate everyone.

Going by your (OP) logic and judging by "the server size" it would be a piece of cake to implement everything you want. I take it you haven't had to go to work yet and parents are paying for everything so stuff just are made somewhere when you want it.

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Originally Posted by Adler

Going by your (OP) logic and judging by "the server size" it would be a piece of cake to implement everything you want. I take it you haven't had to go to work yet and parents are paying for everything so stuff just are made somewhere when you want it.

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I'm not even saying to reduce the prices, just to increase the number of wards. I already have my house, but I know plenty of people that want one but can't get one.

By your logic, if someone wanted more accessible resources like wheelchair ramps, they must be handicapped themselves.


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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Actually at 100 wards, you might start to have lonely houses, because not every player is going to have time, gil, or desire to get a house. You don't need housing lot waiting for every green sprout. There should be a some level over-subscription for housing lots, so the housing lots have value, and housing lots do not go to waste.

And it took two weeks at least, for all the small lots to be sold out. Still all the medium and large lots are just sitting there open.

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First part, I agree. People don't necessarily want houses or want to put in the effort to get a house. I think only the players and FCs able to get a house should be counted here, plus a certain amount extra to consider in new players that plan to get a house.

Second part, it depends on the server. Some servers, houses were bought up pretty much right away.

On my server, I had everything ready for my house beforehand. I logged on before the server statuses updated and an empty search (searches for anyone online but you (and the staff)) turned up empty. Why? Because I knew exactly which house I wanted and wasn't about to let anyone else have it.

(The number has some significance to me AND the location was nice, hence why I wanted it.)

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

they could have 100 wards and people would still get left out.

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Actually at 100 wards, you might start to have lonely houses, because not every player is going to have time, gil, or desire to get a house. You don't need housing lot waiting for every green sprout. There should be a some level over-subscription for housing lots, so the housing lots have value, and housing lots do not go to waste.

And it took two weeks at least, for all the small lots to be sold out. Still all the medium and large lots are just sitting there open.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And it took two weeks at least, for all the small lots to be sold out. Still all the medium and large lots are just sitting there open.

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that is different from server to server, you cannot make statement base on your server alone. On Excalibur, it take 15 min after server online for the small house sold out, or i dare say less than 15

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

I'm basing it off of the players that I've seen doing end game content (anything past 50 in this case) on my server as well as information provided during the latest patch.

My point was more of that out of the players I've seen, it is likely only a fraction of the total player base that can get houses, but out of all the players, there are only so many that really want houses.

Again, the numbers I'm using are purely based on personal observation based on factors like party finder, players in FCs with houses, people that are on during random player searches, etc.

I am not counting anyone who is an obvious bot or who is low level+new adventurer in this thought process.

And that we really need a lot more housing to accommodate everyone.

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A visual representation is not enough to make such a decision on. Also, the servers may or may not support what you want right now. This is not to say I am against the expansion of wards, just don't assume the servers are big enough. Consider also what takes priority, there of course will have to be new instances for the new content coming up. While I don't know exactly how things are instanced, if a server gets a specific piece of content or if there are X amount of instances and the instance plays content based on the party in it, I don't know but I trust SE to do what they are doing.
You also tried to assume that half the players in the game would even want housing, that's just ridiculous to assume without any sort of evidence be it a survey of some sorts. Even if you did perform a survey, it would have to take some time because you need a very large sample across many servers.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

Out of that, we can assume about half of them want houses.

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No, no we can't assume that. That's just ridiculous. Therefore I could say, considering there are still empty houses left, everyone who really wants a house, has one and thus, we need no more instances.

The servers are pretty weak to not be able to support a basic player housing scheme that their older mmo did over a decade ago. Adding more wards is a bandaid fix to a problem that needs a complete overhaul. The way they did it is a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

The servers are pretty weak to not be able to support a basic player housing scheme that their older mmo did over a decade ago. Adding more wards is a bandaid fix to a problem that needs a complete overhaul. The way they did it is a terrible idea.

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Except the housing system in FFXI is completely different in the sense that every house is instanced unlike the current system in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

Except the housing system in FFXI is completely different in the sense that every house is instanced unlike the current system in FFXIV.

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Ah, that's my point!

Congratulations, you have solved SE's problem! Now if YoshiP could just see this post...

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Originally Posted by Barboron

No, no we can't assume that. That's just ridiculous. Therefore I could say, considering there are still empty houses left, everyone who really wants a house, has one and thus, we need no more instances.

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Maybe on your server there are lots open, but don't assume that all servers have lots open. In famfrit, only the newest wards have medium/large houses open last I checked and that is only because people are waiting for the prices to go down. Once it goes down enough, people already have the gil prepared to buy them.

And I did do a mini survey of a few people I knew (FC, Friends list, link shells mainly and a few people I did a lot of duty runs with (not necessarily the same server)). Again, not conclusive evidence, but my point is more of that there are people that want housing but either can't get them because the houses already got bought up, or they are waiting for the prices to go down, but it is a game of: What is the price that I'll pay, what is the price that others will pay?

Also, I see no reason why their servers can't handle housing. There are other games with larger non-instanced housing areas that are fine and they aren't even from a big company like SE. So the only reason that their servers wouldn't be able to handle housing would be if they didn't set up their servers to be expandable. In which case, I'd have to say that is poor design.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

Maybe on your server there are lots open, but don't assume that all servers have lots open.

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Don't assume? Now you're getting the point! That's it, don't assume.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

And I did do a mini survey of a few people I knew (FC, Friends list, link shells mainly and a few people I did a lot of duty runs with (not necessarily the same server)). Again, not conclusive evidence, but my point is more of that there are people that want housing but either can't get them because the houses already got bought up, or they are waiting for the prices to go down, but it is a game of: What is the price that I'll pay, what is the price that others will pay?

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Of course it won't be conclusive evidence, that sort of sample would be far too small and you still made the assumption that half of the high level players of a number you made by a small observation would want housing.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

Also, I see no reason why their servers can't handle housing. There are other games with larger non-instanced housing areas that are fine and they aren't even from a big company like SE. So the only reason that their servers wouldn't be able to handle housing would be if they didn't set up their servers to be expandable. In which case, I'd have to say that is poor design.

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Of course you can't see why. It's because you haven't got a clue, like the rest of us, how the game is designed nor do you know how the servers are setup. You can't simple take content from one game and assume it will work in another just because it's there.


To finish off, OP, you constructed an ill-informed case for your thoughts against housing. You are using numbers that you simply can not back up in any way. On top of that, you are making assumptions on the system used to run the game without, what seems, any prior knowledge to how it is setup. Be that how their servers are setup, the actual equipment used, the programming done etc.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Ah, that's my point!

Congratulations, you have solved SE's problem! Now if YoshiP could just see this post...

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That's not SE's problem, that's your problem. Who is to say that this housing system does not benefit SE? Afterall, it was stated in a Live Letter that it would be difficult to create housing like that in FFXI since it would require making several instances. So rather, the problem is that you don't like the feature and how it was implemented. Don't pawn it off as SE's problem.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

Snip

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Ok, let us put it this way, my point was that even if my numbers were fairly far off, we still don't have enough housing for everyone. Just considering in my sample, I already have people that can't get housing because it is already bought out. Just from the numbers I already have, we don't have enough housing.

It is called a hypothetical situation/scenario for a reason. If it is already like this, then this is the issue. Assuming that on a larger scale it is also somewhat similar, then this is the issue. If both are the same issue, then assuming a larger case, this is the proposed idea.

My point also being that SE could have designed their housing system to be more adaptable, but they didn't. Now, I wouldn't mind them redoing housing completely, but there would be plenty of people upset if the changes messes with their houses too much.

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Took me a bit to find a reasonable scenario but here is an example:

I see that there are people who are hungry. I go: Hey, we should find a way to feed more people. Assuming this much of the population I can see is hungry, we need to find a way to get this much food. Now, assuming then that the rest of the state is like that, we need this much food. Assuming that the nation is like that, we need this much food.

Even if we don't need that much food or if we need more than that much, point is still that we need more food.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

It is called a hypothetical situation/scenario for a reason.

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So now you are trying to take everything you said and claim it to be a hypothetical situation?

Either way, it is evident that the biggest concern is gardening when it comes to housing, there have been threads on it before. Very few pertaining to peoples' urge to have housing for RP or vanity, that's not to say those reasons do not exist. So, the simple solution to this? Focus on personal room plant pots. That would take a huge weight off the housing debate.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

So now you are trying to take everything you said and claim it to be a hypothetical situation?

Either way, it is evident that the biggest concern is gardening when it comes to housing, there have been threads on it before. Very few pertaining to peoples' urge to have housing for RP or vanity, that's not to say those reasons do not exist. So, the simple solution to this? Focus on personal room plant pots. That would take a huge weight off the housing debate.

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That is true that it would likely lessen up the need for houses if you removed gardening from houses and put it in personal rooms. However, if you simply added personal room gardening, that would do very little to really change the desire for housing.

Think of it this way: Why do 1 plot when you can do 3 plots? Why do 3 plots when you can do 6? and so on.

It has always been a hypothetical situation. That is why I said assuming and not "this is a fact." Or "This is a Golden Truth."

I want a house not for the gardens, not for anything special, but for the fact that I love building things. I own both minecraft and terraria and my friends know me for building some of the most absurd things. (Most of my friends also refuse, violently, to ever enter any of my worlds because of my bad habit of... Let us put it this way, a mirror house maze would be like my idea of good housing design.

I like making challenges for people to try to go through. And so far? I've had mostly good feedback where people ask me to let them know whenever I update my house.

So it isn't really for vanity or RP, but for making challenges for people.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

It has always been a hypothetical situation. That is why I said assuming and not "this is a fact." Or "This is a Golden Truth."

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If that's the case, then you have no argument. You are just dismissing any numbers you were assuming to have had. Why even mention these numbers if they are of zero use to begin with other than lead people to believe that there exists a demand that there really is not?

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Originally Posted by Barboron

If that's the case, then you have no argument. You are just dismissing any numbers you were assuming to have had. Why even mention these numbers if they are of zero use to begin with other than lead people to believe that there exists a demand that there really is not?

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Again. If based on the numbers I have, about half of the population wants a house, then it should be reasonable enough to make a guess that in a larger group, it should still be somewhat near that number. If based on the numbers I have, there are ALREADY people who want housing but can't get it, then even with a larger group, there is still people who want housing but can't get it.

The hypothetical situation is based on the situation I know, not just completely random.

Let us put it this way:

If out of 1000 people, around 50 of them didn't have houses but wanted one (but couldn't get one because there was no houses left), even if we were to expand it to say 5000 people, there is STILL a MINIMUM of around 50 that can't get houses and want to.

The issue still exists, the only difference is how big the issue is.

if out of 1000 people, 500 of them don't want houses and 500 do, then even expanded to 5000 people, at least 500 want and 500 don't want.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

snip

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You don't need to give examples, I completely understand. You have made up numbers and seem to be confusing them with fact.

What you "know" is that some of your friends and FC members want houses. There isn't enough houses to go around. You're not the first to realise this. Where your wrong is the scale of the demand because you are making up numbers. Understand? You can't simply say "Lets assume the server holds 7,000 people. Of that 7,000 people at least half of them want a red chocobo." and actually accept it to be true just because you asked a small sample of people who happened to want a red chocobo. Not only that but chances are you are going to have a bias in your samples because those who want housing are going to make their voices heard over those who aren't too concerned.

Your argument is invalid. End.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

Snip.

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Except my sample was asking random people. And as I said, that was still about half. Your point is becoming that because not everyone wants housing, nobody wants housing.

My point is that some people want housing and can't get it because there are no spots, why not fix that. The amount/scale really doesn't matter to be honest, but one way or another the demand exists.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

snip

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No, I never said people don't want housing. I am saying that you are trying to make it look like there exists such a high demand for housing with no numbers or evidence of research to prove your point. If half the game's players wanted housing, and wanted it enough for the dev. team to sacrifice time into upgrading servers and the game in order to implement it, then fair enough. Show me the numbers is all I ask.

The people you asked pale in comparison to the number of people actually playing. I don't care how many people do or do not want housing but you are trying to raise an issue with the community by posting it here on the forums without any evidence to support it.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

No, I never said people don't want housing. I am saying that you are trying to make it look like there exists such a high demand for housing with no numbers or evidence of research to prove your point. If half the game's players wanted housing, and wanted it enough for the dev. team to sacrifice time into upgrading servers and the game in order to implement it, then fair enough. Show me the numbers is all I ask.

The people you asked pale in comparison to the number of people actually playing. I don't care how many people do or do not want housing but you are trying to raise an issue with the community by posting it here on the forums without any evidence to support it.

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My point was that there was demand, not the amount. The larger numbers were more of an example against another statement. You are reading one post and applying it as a continuation of another post when it isn't.