FFXIV does not need to be like FFXI

..if the fans had somewhere else to go.


Note, I am for having some things xi in xiv, but maybe if there was still some ffxi left in ffxi players like me wouldnt have such a hunger for that kind of game.

As nice as this sounds... shouldn't this be in the FFXI forums? I mean if you were asking for a FFXI-like server in XIV:ARR I could understand it being here.

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

As nice as this sounds... shouldn't this be in the FFXI forums? I mean if you were asking for a FFXI-like server in XIV:ARR I could understand it being here.

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It is there, I put it here because its a big point of contest on these forums with the "go back to ffxi's" all the time. So I figure, why not get those people to be proactive in making their own wish happen, get ffxiv to support their friends in xi and keep the games offering a different experience.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

It is there, I put it here because its a big point of contest on these forums with the "go back to ffxi's" all the time. So I figure, why not get those people to be proactive in making their own wish happen, get ffxiv to support their friends in xi and keep the games offering a different experience.

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So basically instead of trying to breath life (new life) into FFXI or flesh out FFXIV:ARR more even with XI ideas, you just want to go play FFXI from a certain time in the past? That doesn't sound too fun at all, and I miss old FFXI a lot. But I'd rather see XIV come into it's own and really shine, even if it's with XI like ideas. I'm not sure how I feel about the direction for XI, but I'm always hopeful that it'll pull through for those who still love it. Seems to me you care too much what others think. I could be wrong though.

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

So basically instead of trying to breath life (new life) into FFXI or flesh out FFXIV:ARR more even with XI ideas, you just want to go play FFXI from a certain time in the past? That doesn't sound too fun at all, and I miss old FFXI a lot. But I'd rather see XIV come into it's own and really shine, even if it's with XI like ideas. I'm not sure how I feel about the direction for XI, but I'm always hopeful that it'll pull through for those who still love it. Seems to me you care too much what others think. I could be wrong though.

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I don't really care what others think, I just felt this would be a mutually beneficial proposition for those people. As for your stance on things, I would love to see FFXIV grow to be more but I don't see it happening and right now no game offers an experience like ffxi used to and thats why I want to go back. I don't know how in touch you are with ffxi as it is now, but the current director picked up a lot of ideas from his time working with Yoshida (the producer of 14) and has made it a very different experience. Were I to instead ask for changes to the current experience there is no way it would ever go through, it would offend too much of the current playerbase, those who did not quit as a result of the changes so the only answer I can see is to offer a single side experience for those who are looking for it so that it disturbs no one.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

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That's because the direction of MMORPG's in general are moving in a whole new direction. You won't see many new games exactly like FFXI. And to be honest, I'm not all that in love with the new system in XI. One of the main reasons I left, I actually loved Abyssea, but everything after Abyssea just ruined XI for me. I'm still not quite sure you request though, you just want a server on FFXI, that only plays as it did before a certain time? So DEVs would have to restructure everything to the way it once was (idk how much work that involves). Seems like it would be more hassle than it's worth. I'm sorry you don't feel FFXIV:ARR will ever truly develop, and I'm not saying "GO BACK TO XI!!" because I hate when people use that reply as well... but why even bother with XIV:ARR then and stay here blathering on about XI if you really don't see any hope for XIV:ARR?

I do see hope for FFXIV:ARR, I think it will continue on for many years. So many people fail to realize it's barely been 1 year now since the release of FFXIV:ARR not "FFXIV", but FFXIV:ARR. FFXI was only out little over a year before RoZ came to be, and NA got it's hands on it. There was hardly any content at all! So many NA's just remember NA launch with RoZ, but for the JP (and those who played with JP import) just had very little to do, there was even a level 50 cap! Give XIV:ARR some time to truly flesh out into a good game. Give it time for the expansion to come out and see where the system is then. I can't tell you or anyone how to enjoy a game or how to use your spare time. I just find it odd if people have such hang ups with a game why the continue to stay, especially if they see no hope. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

That's because the direction of MMORPG's in general are moving in a whole new direction. You won't see many new games exactly like FFXI. And to be honest, I'm not all that in love with the new system in XI. One of the main reasons I left, I actually loved Abyssea, but everything after Abyssea just ruined XI for me. I'm still not quite sure you request though, you just want a server on FFXI, that only plays as it did before a certain time? So DEVs would have to restructure everything to the way it once was (idk how much work that involves). Seems like it would be more hassle than it's worth. I'm sorry you don't feel FFXIV:ARR will ever truly develop, and I'm not saying "GO BACK TO XI!!" because I hate when people use that reply as well... but why even bother with XIV:ARR then and stay here blathering on about XI if you really don't see any hope for XIV:ARR?

I do see hope for FFXIV:ARR, I think it will continue on for many years. So many people fail to realize it's barely been 1 year now since the release of FFXIV:ARR not "FFXIV", but FFXIV:ARR. FFXI was only out little over a year before RoZ came to be, and NA got it's hands on it. There was hardly any content at all! So many NA's just remember NA launch with RoZ, but for the JP (and those who played with JP import) just had very little to do, there was even a level 50 cap! Give XIV:ARR some time to truly flesh out into a good game. Give it time for the expansion to come out and see where the system is then. I can't tell you or anyone how to enjoy a game or how to use your spare time. I just find it odd if people have such hang ups with a game why the continue to stay, especially if they see no hope. /shrug

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Its not quite so hard as it sounds (not to diminish it, its still a large request) and has been done for a number of other games such as everquest, runescape and theres a big push for them in lineage 2 now (theres huge demand for it there and they will be releasing over 3 classic servers to meet that demand). I don't quite know where you are getting this that all im doing is trying to make everything ffxi. You may have seen me around these boards arguing about it but 90+% of the time I am just defending it as a good game, not as much pushing for it to be everywhere. Currently the main reason I hang around ffxiv is because for the type of game it is, its decent at least and I play it with friends and family but its just not what im looking for and I doubt it ever will be what im looking for (and thats ok, I still wish that it get better for all who like it).

As for what exactly my request is, yes I want a server that plays like a certain time. This is ONLY my request because it has been tempered with realistic expectation... I mean i'd love a modern version with all kinds of new stuff, etc. but it wont happen, the development went too far in the other direction. This is a compromise of sorts.

People have been asking Blizzard for a vanilla/TBC server since 2009 or so. Hasn't happened.
Also, as nice as these requests are (I would probably play in these type of servers) they do not belong here...

I just came back from a rump through XI, here are my thoughts:
On one hand, valor is very nice, it made the tedium that was level-grinding go by quicker.
On the other hand, it gets very lonely and boring grinding with just a party made entirely out of NPC.
On another other hand, those NPC help those of us who are returning or beginning for the first time, seeing as all the veterans are to far ahead to help...
I think that XI doesn't need to go back to pre-Abyssea, it needs something that will breath life back into it.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

/snip

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My big hang up still with this issue is stated in my first post, what is this doing on XIV:ARR forums? If you really don't care what others think on here, what is the point to bring this to the XIV:ARR forums just so you can say "Hey people who keep telling us to go back to XI, I want to so support me!" Just doesn't make much sense to me, but you just seem to be going in circles so C'est la vie. GL to what ever it is you're truly trying to achieve here in these forums I suppose...

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

My big hang up still with this issue is stated in my first post, what is this doing on XIV:ARR forums? If you really don't care what others think on here, what is the point to bring this to the XIV:ARR forums just so you can say "Hey people who keep telling us to go back to XI, I want to so support me!" Just doesn't make much sense to me, but you just seem to be going in circles so C'est la vie. GL to what ever it is you're truly trying to achieve here in these forums I suppose...

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To rally support obviously, as with you and I there are a lot of ex ffxi players here that could have an interest in this kind of thing..... need to get the word out to make a petition move :(

Not like I can go door to door, I have to show up in places where people who might be interested are.

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Originally Posted by Tashigi

People have been asking Blizzard for a vanilla/TBC server since 2009 or so. Hasn't happened.
Also, as nice as these requests are (I would probably play in these type of servers) they do not belong here...

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People have been asking the same from SOE regarding Everquest 1 since about 2010. Locking the game to its first three, maybe four expansions depending on who you're bringing this question up to. Hasn't happened yet either. EQ1 did however see a influx of returning players when they launched the games time locked progression servers. Maybe the same could work for XI too. Something for the OP to think over and suggest to SE on the XI forums if it sounds good.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

People have been asking the same from SOE regarding Everquest 1 since about 2010. Locking the game to its first three, maybe four expansions depending on who you're bringing this question up to. Hasn't happened yet either. EQ1 did however see a influx of returning players when they launched the games time locked progression servers. Maybe the same could work for XI too. Something for the OP to think over and suggest to SE on the XI forums if it sounds good.

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I have done this actually, but requested classic specifically instead (I mention everquests progression server as one in support of the idea). The petition was made to support the idea and is linked in the thread over there.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...Classic-Server

^ thats the thread over there if you happen to have a ffxi account and wish to discuss the idea.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

I don't I'm afraid as I never really played XI. Good luck however in your goal ^o^

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Many thanks!

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Originally Posted by Redemption

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...Classic-Server

^ thats the thread over there if you happen to have a ffxi account and wish to discuss the idea.

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I don't I'm afraid as I never really played XI. Good luck however in your goal ^o^

Tbh as much as I would love for something like this to happen, I probably wouldn't actually take part in it unless I could somehow transfer my old xi character over to the classic server as is, just roll it back to pre-Abyssea lv 75 during the transfer and I'd be happy as long as the server had a decent population. I can't see myself starting over from scratch though, sorry. Long level grind, it would require a ton of time and effort, and I'm already invested in XIV. Doubt it would ever be the same as it was back then anyway.

This game already has a lot of similarities to XI, but I like that it's a completely different game too, and I'm more interested to see what other directions SE chooses to take it. Maybe it's time to move on?

My question is what the Hell would you do on these "classic" servers? I know the only content I would have personally would be to build relic weapons through what would be the old multialliance requiring Dynamis or build mythic(s) through ToAU stuff. With no new content to look forward to on this server though what would be the point? I do agree however that XIV does not need to be XI-2.

Thank You OP for bringing this petition to my attention. For what its worth, I signed it.

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Originally Posted by MuCephei

Thank You OP for bringing this petition to my attention. For what its worth, I signed it.

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Thank you :)

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Originally Posted by Lithera

My question is what the Hell would you do on these "classic" servers? I know the only content I would have personally would be to build relic weapons through what would be the old multialliance requiring Dynamis or build mythic(s) through ToAU stuff. With no new content to look forward to on this server though what would be the point? I do agree however that XIV does not need to be XI-2.

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This is kinda confusing, there was lots of endgame to be doing in classic (sea, sky, various nms, limbus, nuzul, einherjar, dynamis, salvage, etc.) so... I guess i'd be doing all that, leveling characters in parties again, crafting doing missions. True that there wouldn't be new stuff coming but with how new stuff is I would rather that then nothing and I think it would still be a lot of fun to do.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

True that there wouldn't be new stuff coming but with how new stuff is I would rather that then nothing and I think it would still be a lot of fun to do.

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I'm sure it would be, but I don't think the demand would be there. They've kind of done something like this in the past; after the final save of 1.0, they brought the servers back up so people could play and said they'd keep it up as long as there was a demand, but there was virtually none. I remember wanting to do The Raven, Nevermore after the final save, and there were three people (including myself) on the server. Granted, this would be somewhat different to that, but it has it's own problems; I played XI, I don't really know why I'd want to replay it at this point.

I guess they could trial it, but I really don't think it would draw a large enough crowd to be feasible.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I'm sure it would be, but I don't think the demand would be there. They've kind of done something like this in the past; after the final save of 1.0, they brought the servers back up so people could play and said they'd keep it up as long as there was a demand, but there was virtually none. I remember wanting to do The Raven, Nevermore after the final save, and there were three people (including myself) on the server. Granted, this would be somewhat different to that, but it has it's own problems; I played XI, I don't really know why I'd want to replay it at this point.

I guess they could trial it, but I really don't think it would draw a large enough crowd to be feasible.

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Huh? I was here for that, I am pretty sure that was going to be brought down at a set time. The reason nobody was playing it, is the server was no longer being saved and no data would transition over to 2.0... it wasnt meant to be for people who liked 1.0, it was just being held up for people to play til they wanted to bring it down.

Fuckin' signed. So tired of theme park and twitch MMOs

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Originally Posted by Redemption

Huh? I was here for that, I am pretty sure that was going to be brought down at a set time. The reason nobody was playing it, is the server was no longer being saved and no data would transition over to 2.0... it wasnt meant to be for people who liked 1.0, it was just being held up for people to play til they wanted to bring it down.

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I'm fairly sure I remember them intending to leave it up longer if there was a demand for it. Also, it was purely for people who liked 1.x... People weren't going to play it otherwise, were they? The only reason they left it up was so people could continue to enjoy it. People didn't want to though, because progression didn't mean anything, which would really be the same for what you're proposing; sure there is a lot of content to go through, but it's still finite. Eventually you'd be done with it, with no updates people tend not to tolerate a MMOs grind. Sure some will, but probably not enough to actually allow it to function.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I'm fairly sure I remember them intending to leave it up longer if there was a demand for it. Also, it was purely for people who liked 1.x... People weren't going to play it otherwise, were they? The only reason they left it up was so people could continue to enjoy it. People didn't want to though, because progression didn't mean anything, which would really be the same for what you're proposing; sure there is a lot of content to go through, but it's still finite. Eventually you'd be done with it, with no updates people tend not to tolerate a MMOs grind. Sure some will, but probably not enough to actually allow it to function.

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There was no option when it was up, it wasn't a throwback, they were shutting down to prepare for 2.0 which wouldn't launch for another half a year. Even if they said they would keep it up longer (which Im pretty sure it was not phrased that way, I sortof remember them being somewhat flexible on it) it doesn't matter because people not liking it was not the reason they didn't play it, they didn't play it because their progress was GUARANTEED to be deleted when 2.0 went live and at the time nobody knew what 2.0 was going to be like.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

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Thank You!

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Snip!

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If I remember correctly, they also gave everyone the relics. Not sure if they gave anything else.

But if there is nothing more to strive for in a game, what's the point of playing it? So of course people would leave the server.

FFXI have a lot of things depending on what expansion. Personally, I would love to play on a server with the patches before the RNG nerf.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

...I am for having some things xi in xiv...

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Things I miss from FFXI:

Text-based UI/Menu/Inventory.
Full-screening chat log with 1 key press and cycling chat filters within.
Menu casting.
Crafting level limitations.
Maat Fight.
AF gear actually being an accomplishment, not a hand out.
NMs.
Claiming system.
No 3-role party system.
Not casual friendly.
No item level.
No duty finder.
Leveling. (Of all things I miss leveling in FFXI... you went to a zone, found a pt to level with, spent hours kicking butt, making friends, making mistakes and running halfway across the area to zone a mob that wiped half your party in the process after the whm died...
Speaking of which...I miss mobs chasing you all the way around the zone...
Mobs that gave you good xp were very hard to kill (which made soloing all that more fun, and leveling parties viable). Nothing in ffxiv is hard to kill. A lot of times you can kill things 10 levels higher then you without really trying... in FFXI that would mean insta death for almost any job.

Oh well. Nostalgia time is over. Have a nice day everyone!

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Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

Mobs that gave you good xp were very hard to kill (which made soloing all that more fun, and leveling parties viable). Nothing in ffxiv is hard to kill. A lot of times you can kill things 10 levels higher then you without really trying... in FFXI that would mean insta death for almost any job.

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I thought it would have been nice if they added a zone here with only lvl 55-60 ish monsters, an endgame open zone kind of thing. Would have been something at least.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

I thought it would have been nice if they added a zone here with only lvl 55-60 ish monsters, an endgame open zone kind of thing. Would have been something at least.

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And do what?

Just one question : If you remove all content created after Abyssea...what would you really do in the game ?
If you're such a hardcore fan of FFXI that Abyssea totally ruined the game for you, you probably already cleared everything worth doing.

I went back to FFXI for the free week welcome back campaign - I am sorry to say that I cannot stay very long, the difference is BIG MASSIVE JARRING GLARE DEER IN HEADLIGHTS... FFXI feels so slow, stupidly slow, slow everything takes so much time to do, so counter intuitive, just plain damn slow. Thank you very much but NO THANKS, FF14 is a far far superior game in every way, except maybe the "forcing everyone to play nice with each other - because you are stuck in the same $$%%^hole together - be nice, or get nowhere". The new team in FFXI did amazing job trying to update that game to be more in tune with FF14. There is a reason those old FFXI is dead gone, long forgotten, because it sucks badly. SE is not dumb enough to put a server of "classic FFXI" with maybe 2000 people in it.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Just one question : If you remove all content created after Abyssea...what would you really do in the game ?
If you're such a hardcore fan of FFXI that Abyssea totally ruined the game for you, you probably already cleared everything worth doing.

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Abyssea did wonder for FFXI, it obliterate all those hardcore HNM LS and completely destroy their monopoly on dynamis and endgame activities. That expansion brought "theme park" mode to FFXI, where you can log in, play ASAP, customize your play style and stats, and try ALL jobs and have fun trying to kill NM with jobs that are not considered "HOT FLAVOR OF THE MONTH".

The biggest drawback with abyssea, because it is so accessible, you have to deal with a truckload of newbies all in level 99 via speed leveling and have no clue on playing their jobs. And everyone rushed to level HOT Flavor of the month jobs without spending any time understanding how to play it. Madness ensued and everyone bitching about all these level 99 beast master farming dynamis lol.

Seekers of Adoulin had a rough launch since it was suppose to "reset" the game with i-level system progression similar to FF14, hardcore revolted when their RME weapons got "nerfed". But Seekers now has become a very nice expansion - you can blame player base for wanting to optimize everything and kill other jobs that they deem not optimal. In any case, I still like FF14 better, so much faster pace, so easily accessible and convenient, and way way better. Bring on the theme park, log and play, it's a game, it should never be a job that require "Dedication".

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

I went back to FFXI for the free week welcome back campaign - I am sorry to say that I cannot stay very long, the difference is BIG MASSIVE JARRING GLARE DEER IN HEADLIGHTS... FFXI feels so slow, stupidly slow, slow everything takes so much time to do, so counter intuitive, just plain damn slow. Thank you very much but NO THANKS, FF14 is a far far superior game in every way, except maybe the "forcing everyone to play nice with each other - because you are stuck in the same $$%%^hole together - be nice, or get nowhere". The new team in FFXI did amazing job trying to update that game to be more in tune with FF14. There is a reason those old FFXI is dead gone, long forgotten, because it sucks badly. SE is not dumb enough to put a server of "classic FFXI" with maybe 2000 people in it.

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Geeze luvbunny, when are you going to learn that there are different kinds of games. You never liked ffxi just like I never liked ffxiv that much, you have your likes and other people have theirs. Stop being such an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Abyssea did wonder for FFXI, [...]Seekers of Adoulin had a rough launch since it was suppose to "reset" the game with i-level system progression similar to FF14, hardcore revolted when their RME weapons got "nerfed". But Seekers now has become a very nice expansion

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I really enjoyed Abyssea, precisely because it made the game less tedious to play. After so many years, it felt refreshing to not "fear" every new critter you met.
I've played Adoulin, but only a little. Some ideas were really interesting, but at that point, I really wanted something...new.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

Geeze luvbunny, when are you going to learn that there are different kinds of games. You never liked ffxi just like I never liked ffxiv that much, you have your likes and other people have theres. Stop being such an idiot.

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FFXI and FFXIV are two really different games, yes. But there's nothing to justify FFXI to be so slow paced. I went back too, thinking I'd finally level up my Rune Fencer, because I really liked the job for the little time I played Adoulin. Then I started to fight...8 seconds between each swing o_O
And as a RUN, it's not like you really have much to do between those swings, since all your spells and skills are basically buffs you cast before the fight. So you wait...between each hit...and every minute, you launch a weapon skill.
You can argue that the game offers great strategy and great challenges, and I'd even agree with you on all of that, but waiting is just...boring.

We still using extreme generalizations to dismiss and reinforce various concepts with more complexity and variety than we would ever dare analyze in fear that our personal ideals might be even slightly disrupted?
Yes?
Well then I guess we're par for the course.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

Geeze luvbunny, when are you going to learn that there are different kinds of games. You never liked ffxi just like I never liked ffxiv that much, you have your likes and other people have theirs. Stop being such an idiot.

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Stop putting your nostalgia glasses, the old game is dead for a reason. It is not sustainable in this day and age. End of story. Even if they make classic servers, if not enough people signing up, the one who did can't progress in the game, it will be hard for them to make a party since soloing in classic FFXI is just slow, beyond slow. Classic FFXI means no level sync and no trust NPC, no field of valor or ground of valor. The old game is badly designed. It works at that time because things were different back then. It was a masterpiece in torture grind porn only a masochist could love. And if your idea of progress is becoming a slave to your VIP LS mate, where they get their stuffs first, while everyone waits for a year or never get anything, then by all means go for it.

It's hilarious people here complaint about random numbers and random drops and weekly cap and lock out. They obviously have not play "classic FFXI" where you have to deal with months to a year of progress LOL. A game where you MUST have jobs XYZ, we don't give a shit if you hate doing this and that, have jobs XYZ or suffer being a snowflake syndrome with no other choice to progress.

And to those who wants "dangerous zone", please get real!! No one wants to deal with a zone where mob agro you and follow you the entire zone and link, and then BLOCK everyone else from progressing because all aggro mob are on the entrance zone and every time someone try to pass, they keep coming back. I am looking at you "classic FFXI" Crawler Nest + Valkrum "hot tranny mess" of people MPK everyone else....

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Stop putting your nostalgia glasses, the old game is dead for a reason. It is not sustainable in this day and age. End of story. Even if they make classic servers, if not enough people signing up, the one who did can't progress in the game, it will be hard for them to make a party since soloing in classic FFXI is just slow, beyond slow. Classic FFXI means no level sync and no trust NPC, no field of valor or ground of valor. The old game is badly designed. It works at that time because things were different back then. It was a masterpiece in torture grind porn only a masochist could love. And if your idea of progress is becoming a slave to your VIP LS mate, where they get their stuffs first, while everyone waits for a year or never get anything, then by all means go for it.

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Again with the nostalgia argument, somehow you know exactly how it was and somehow I cannot? Somehow you know exactly how I am perceiving it so that you can declare it wrong? Completely flawed argument. Also my request for a classic server is asking for the last patch before abyssea (and before back to back grounds of valor) so there would be level sync. It was designed fine, it was built around community and it worked exactly like it should and if you had learned that maybe you wouldn't have been a slave and actually had friends that did things to help eachother not because they had to but because they wanted to. Stop speaking for everyone, stop assuming your way is the only way to do it, and stop attributing your personal distaste with it to being the way it was supposed to be.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

Again with the nostalgia argument, somehow you know exactly how it was and somehow I cannot? Somehow you know exactly how I am perceiving it so that you can declare it wrong?

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Yes the last patch before Abyssea, which would be during the Wings of the Goddess expansion, a fail expansion where 85% of the new zones are DEAD, no one wants to even go there to do xp party except for the colibri level synch party from level 32-38. I am a realist, as much as I love certain aspects of FFXI, I can see shit no matter how you polish the turd. Zilart and ToAU are the two best expansion that comes from pre-abyssea era. CoP is an atrocious hot mess. When only less than 10% of your players able to reach the end game zone, it's an utter fail. SE is in the game "business" - it is SE job to appeal to as many player base as possible. Classic FFXI works at one point, it will not work again, especially not now. From a business point of view, it is a waste of resource. I rather have SE focus on FF14 and current FFXI and bring FFXI to be more up par to modern game. Kudos for the new FFXI for trying to undo the atrocious mess that is classic FFXI and bringing tons of fresh new content and "remixing" some old ones.

Maybe you should try a kickstart fund and propose this to SE head of business development, obviously there must be other players like you who want "classic FFXI" - let's see if you can figure out a sustainable business model for them on how to maintain "dead old classic game where things will be left as it is and no longer updated" but if you want to play it, you still have to pay monthly subs. Good luck with that!

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Yes the last patch before Abyssea, which would be during the Wings of the Goddess expansion, a fail expansion where 85% of the new zones are DEAD, no one wants to even go there to do xp party except for the colibri level synch party from level 32-38. I am a realist, as much as I love certain aspects of FFXI, I can see shit no matter how you polish the turd.

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Wings certainly wasn't the best expansion, but it was still a good additon to the game. The story line is nice and I liked campaign as well. What it didn't do, was offer a lot of compelling reasons to be there like a new kind of endgame or better reasons to explore the zones. As for your polished turd point, I see the exact same here. FFXIV is not a bad game, I can admit that, but it is packed full of a ton of problems and unappealing features... I mean 85% of the zones were dead here too until they forced everyone to go back for relic upgrades and hunts.

FF14 main appeal is in the theme parks - aka "dungeon grinds" - FATE and levee quest are just icing in the cake you eat while you wait for your dungeon. Is it perfect? NO, I want them to add more lower lvl dungeons. The level 50 endgame theme parks are good though, it has plenty of options for you to do every day from dungeons to daily stuffs. The point is, this is a game where you can log in and play for a 2-3 hours (heck even one hour if you just do daily and duty roulette guildhest or one lower level dungeons duty roulette). It is not for maniacs who log in and play 20 hours a day... and then complaint "OMG so boring, nothing else to do, gimme my stupidly looooooong tedious grind NOW".

It's a log and play game, quick burst of short term entertainment, not exactly "investment" where you pour your heart and soul, and treat it as your second part time work where you need 30-40 hours a week of game play to be able to "achieve" something and require massive dedication and time investment....

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Originally Posted by Redemption

Wings certainly wasn't the best expansion, but it was still a good additon to the game. The story line is nice and I liked campaign as well. What it didn't do, was offer a lot of compelling reasons to be there like a new kind of endgame or better reasons to explore the zones.

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Storywise, Wings and ToAU are pretty good. ToAU however is better designed because it offers more options, and points rewards applied to you only, so people were more inclined to help you since they get their own points. Seekers is a better expansion (after they did a complete 360 and fixed it). I think the current FFXI is as good as it can be, and will be even better looking at how much dedication the new team is giving to that game. I can't say any bad things on their efforts to modernize FFXI and they brought so many features from FF14. I wish Yoshi would steal a few good things from FFXI and remix it for FF14.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

It was designed fine, it was built around community and it worked exactly like it should and if you had learned that maybe you wouldn't have been a slave and actually had friends that did things to help eachother not because they had to but because they wanted to. Stop speaking for everyone, stop assuming your way is the only way to do it, and stop attributing your personal distaste with it to being the way it was supposed to be.

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Let's be real here lol - the so called "Friends" help you because they too, want something in return. Very few people would take their own time and "help you" for nothing because FFXI does have so many inane quests that are designed for pure time sink with almost zero rewards. But yes, the one great thing that FFXI did, and FF14 has not yet managed to attain, is the sense of community.

It's the double edge sword of duty finder. It gets you log and play fast - but at the same time, it feels rather empty since you never get to meet those same players ever again. It gets the job done. In FFXI - community is pretty much shoved down your throat, and you are FORCED to deal with community, like it or not. In FF14 because there is no hard push, you can avoid community and get things done. If you want "community" in FF14 - you have to work harder, which maybe at the end is more rewarding because you take the extra time and effort to find other like minded people and do things together.