Are they going to adjust the Lamia Deathdancers in T7?

Their aggro is way too finicky and they shouldn't move around like they do.

I've stood right behind where they should spawn and hit them with a full combo'ed Butcher's Block, or really anything else usually besides an auto-attack as soon as they've spawned, and they still just take off for a healer or DPS immediately. They spawn, I smack them, I have top enmity, they run off, attack someone else, get to that person, then do a U-turn, and this usually takes 5-10 seconds of time I could use getting into a position or dealing damage.

They shouldn't be bolting for someone else if you hit them right as they spawn if you have top aggro.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

Their aggro is way too finicky and they shouldn't move around like they do.

I've stood right behind where they should spawn and hit them with a full combo'ed Butcher's Block, or really anything else usually besides an auto-attack as soon as they've spawned, and they still just take off for a healer or DPS immediately. They spawn, I smack them, I have top enmity, they run off, attack someone else, get to that person, then do a U-turn, and this usually takes 5-10 seconds of time I could use getting into a position or dealing damage.

They shouldn't be bolting for someone else if you hit them right as they spawn if you have top aggro.

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It's because they start getting enmity before you can see them. This is how pretty much all adds work in boss fights. We don't have an issue with it though. I think she murdered my Selene once in all the times we've cleared.

Funnily enough, they work kind of like they do in their Besieged raids. All aggro in this version of XIV is generally weird to begin with though. It's kind of like how in T5 all the dragons bolt for someone that isn't the tank that ran in.

I don't have this problem. I pop all my cooldowns at 80%, wait for spawn and do an out of combo butcher's block, followed by a Brutal Swing for giggles. I cut infront of Melusine to grab second add right when she does her AOE after the 2nd add does hers.... and then I go for the third add during the casting of Voice after tanking the 3rd add. Very very rarely have much problem, unless I have voice myself and can't turn around but still hafta kite add 3 into position.

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Originally Posted by ispano

It's because they start getting enmity before you can see them. This is how pretty much all adds work in boss fights. We don't have an issue with it though. I think she murdered my Selene once in all the times we've cleared.

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And that's why it probably needs fixing....

They're fine, probably start by not grabbing with BB it's not instant.

if any healers have Regen up, it generates enmity first. Which is an issue with fights where adds spawn immediately.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

They're fine, probably start by not grabbing with BB it's not instant.

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Yes, this is also the issue. BB doesn't apply until near the end of the animation.

like others said, it has enmity before appearing on your screen. This can be easily fixed if they do it like the golems in T9, which sorta bind them in place for a few secs before letting them loose, that'll make it too easy though.

In Savage T9, the golems pretty much acts the same way as the lamias. Same for slugs in T6.

you can try Overpower for snap hate, but you also risk cleaving an unsuspecting renaud spawning on top of you.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Yes, this is also the issue. BB doesn't apply until near the end of the animation.

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Which is why you pick up adds with loaded Savage/Skull instead of loaded Halone/Butcher.

Steel Cyclone, problem solved.

I usually ready Skull Sunder for the first Deathdancer, Overpower the 2nd one and Provoke+Tomahawk the 3rd.

I forgot to mention you shouldn't face the first Deathdancer when they pop since the auto-attack will cause them go after the mages... Face away the arena and do Skull Sunder to keep it on the spot.

as long you got enough DPS to kill them before next dancer pop then u r fine

or at least thats how we handle it

dancer die be4 next 1 pop by around 3 secs

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Steel Cyclone, problem solved.

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You might hit a Renaud that just spawned.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

You might hit a Renaud that just spawned.

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Shh let him hit it with Steel Cyclone and be entirely befuddled when he dies and wipes the raid. :p

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Which is why you pick up adds with loaded Savage/Skull instead of loaded Halone/Butcher.

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The same thing would happen. The add will still go to whatever she originally had aggro but not attack him and will come back to you. Not really a problem, just annoying.

I just hit them with whatever aggro combo skill I have up and tomahawk/shield lob while I'm moving to my position. I know that she will come back to me after she finishes her pointless trip.

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Originally Posted by Edli

The same thing would happen. The add will still go to whatever she originally had aggro but not attack him and will come back to you.

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Nope. Try it.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Nope. Try it.

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I do almost everytime. The second combo is what I usually use and this behavior is not unique to lamias. I've seen it before on other mobs when doing dungeons. Grab aggro but the mob will still run to that other player and do nothing then come back to me.

What I noticed is mobs have to attempt to attack whoever their highest enmity target is before a check happens to see who is the new current enmity target. What happens is deathdancer spawns usually with hate on a healer now then even if you hit them when they come out they will still want to go for a healer they won't want to change until they make it to the healer and see that the healer isn't the highest on the list anymore then go back to you.

Its like the same thing that has happened on T5 where healers will get initial aggro on snakes then instead of standing by the tank they sprit off and are like OMG get this off me, while you are shield tossing the snake and watching it do nothing because the snake can't catch up to the healer to attempt to attack and have its aggro list checked.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Nope. Try it.

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im always OT in T7 and almost always happen with me

but since we have enough DPS to kill dancer before next 1 pop we are fine

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Originally Posted by Zumi

What I noticed is mobs have to attempt to attack whoever their highest enmity target is before a check happens to see who is the new current enmity target. What happens is deathdancer spawns usually with hate on a healer now then even if you hit them when they come out they will still want to go for a healer they won't want to change until they make it to the healer and see that the healer isn't the highest on the list anymore then go back to you.

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Exactly, that is what I think happens. Is one of those quirks I got used to. I know the mob will come back to me so I'll keep doing my stuff but a new tank may get panicked and leave other mobs to pointlessly chase after something they have aggro anyway.

The same with lamias on t7, if you grabbed aggro don't bother chasing them, just go to whatever position you tank them on. They will not hit the player they were chasing.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

I've stood right behind where they should spawn and hit them with a full combo'ed Butcher's Block, or really anything else usually besides an auto-attack as soon as they've spawned, and they still just take off for a healer or DPS immediately.

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I see a lot of tanks try to engage these type of mobs with Butcher's Block or Rage of Halon. Try not to.
You may have top enmity, but the animation is so long for these abilities, that the "threat" level doesn't register, until the damage of the ability finally lands. Which usually happens AFTER the mob starts to move.
To avoid this, use Skull Sunder/Savage Blade or if you must (Typically with the third add) use Shield Lob/Tomahawk immediately after it spawns and run to your assigned spot to tank them. You can also use Overpower if you're doing it as WAR but just be sure that a Renauld has already spawned OR that it was recently dealt with, or you could potentially grab aggro from it and wipe your raid.
Skip to 1 minute in. This is the way I do it.

http://youtu.be/oKBRIjYFvRY

I personally don't feel this is a bug pertaining to this fight in particular, but a design flaw with the game architecture as a whole. Something that we brought to Square Enix attention during BETA quite frequently, but alas, was ultimately ignored.
The game has several check points server side, which can cause a second or two delay (Sometimes more depending on your connection). Throw in animation delay on top of it as noted above and you have a problem (This is why so many people have issues with Titan HM/EX).

You can work around it by pre-loading and basically learning patterns.
Unfortunately, if you have a high ping or poor connection, even that may not be enough and I suspect you may be experiencing a combination of all of these.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Which is why you pick up adds with loaded Savage/Skull instead of loaded Halone/Butcher.

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^^ That's all you need to know. Don't use AE because you could get a Renauld in it. I would say that your success rate for picking up the adds without them moving is roughly 90% with Savage/Skull, they will still move once in a while depending on server checks but it is a very reliable method with low risk.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Which is why you pick up adds with loaded Savage/Skull instead of loaded Halone/Butcher.

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I don't even do that. I pre-ready a Steel Cyclone, pop it right as she spawns, then Tomahawk her until I get into place. I never lose the Lamia adds in T7. For the second, third, and fourth adds, I just Tomahawk spam them as I get into position. Usually 1 Tomahawk is enough to give full enmity on an add. If I get voice, I just use Flash on them, while facing the outside of the arena.

what Im wondering how will they adjust T7 so it can cater to people on DF once 2.4 is out. what if there's no smn or bard to kite renauds then its auto abandon already.

But Im sure they're gonna make major adjustments to it due to the nature of the fight. heck even groups that can one shot t9 always has issues with t7 each week, what more if its a DF formed group and a mix of JP and EN players.

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Originally Posted by ChriZirhC

What I'm wondering how will they adjust T7 so it can cater to people on DF once 2.4 is out. what if there's no smn or bard to kite renauds then its auto abandon already.

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It's true that it's not ideal to have anyone besides a BRD or SMN do it but... I've done it as MNK several times in some "Oh sh!t" moments with Howling Fist.
So I guess if you have someone smart/dedicated enough, it wouldn't matter.
Unfortunately, the chances of you getting someone that educated on the fight via Duty Finder are... slim.

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Originally Posted by ChriZirhC

what Im wondering how will they adjust T7 so it can cater to people on DF once 2.4 is out. what if there's no smn or bard to kite renauds then its auto abandon already.

But Im sure they're gonna make major adjustments to it due to the nature of the fight. heck even groups that can one shot t9 always has issues with t7 each week, what more if its a DF formed group and a mix of JP and EN players.

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Changes to T7:
Renaulds clubs have now been replaced with a pillow, the basic attack will now hit for 300 damage.

Possible they may force 8man DF to have 2 ranged / 2 melee. Or a healer can be expected to handle Renauds. Have done it in the past, just know for sure that many lazy healers will not like it if that becomes the norm.

As long as DPS isn't 4 MNKs, even a DRG can do Renauds with Piercing Talon.

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Originally Posted by Codek

Changes to T7:
Renaulds clubs have now been replaced with a pillow, the basic attack will now hit for 300 damage.

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The pillow damage applies Echo.

If you hit them with BB, it's the 3rd swing of BB that will fully register the enmity which can take forever. You'd still should get it though. It can run off to the middle, but it will come back hitting no one.

Just throw a tomahawk, weave in bloodbath or something else and start your rotation if you want to be be absolutely sure.

I agree that the way aggro works can be tricky. I don't think it needs to be fixed since it doesn't seem broken for t7.

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Originally Posted by Tashigi

It's true that it's not ideal to have anyone besides a BRD or SMN do it but... I've done it as MNK several times in some "Oh sh!t" moments with Howling Fist.
So I guess if you have someone smart/dedicated enough, it wouldn't matter.
Unfortunately, the chances of you getting someone that educated on the fight via Duty Finder are... slim.

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Originally Posted by Codek

Changes to T7:
Renaulds clubs have now been replaced with a pillow, the basic attack will now hit for 300 damage.

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Yeah removing KO hit from renauds might be the best option I agree so melee can still kite but I have a feeling that still wont be enough as it will still rely a lot on group coordination which wont be possible at all especially in JP data centers. probably making renauds perma stoned once voiced as well?