Rogue's 2nd job

As rogue is dagger class, and FF Dancers use daggers, I plead the Twelve about Dancer being the 2nd job of Rogue!

So is Rogue then suppose to be the actual replacement of Thief? While I love Dancer all on its own, I was figuring there would be more of a Steal/Mug job coming in later, basically, Thief; as Rogue seems to focus more on the stealth part from the discription.


Edit - Guess the post below answers that question. Haven't been in the loop of things with the updates recently, still catching up x.x Oh well.

I cringe every time I see the word Rogue - Yoshi-P's words echo in my mind "Just think thief!"

Still very disappointed they are determined on this direction.

And gosh I hope it's not going to be a stealth class. I hated rogues in pvp in other games.

I agree, a good front line healer would be perfect, able to do damage, and toss out some DOT's and HOTs. :)

I very much would love to see Dancer brought into the FFXIV world. :)

This thread again lol

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I cringe every time I see the word Rogue - Yoshi-P's words echo in my mind "Just think thief!"

Still very disappointed they are determined on this direction.

And gosh I hope it's not going to be a stealth class. I hated rogues in pvp in other games.

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Yeah, I don't know. They do some pretty questionable things sometimes. Maybe if there's enough complaining, they'll eventually add a proper THF job as well. There's no particular reason we can't have Rogue branch into both Thief and Ninja. Obviously there's no incentive for introducing both of them as dps jobs at the same time, but certainly it seems easy enough story to later on say "Hey, these rogues decides to stop being thieves, but thieves still exist, soooo".

Actually most of the recent interviews where people ask when we will start seeing second jobs for current classes yoshida seems to be giving the impression that the dev team has changed their mind about this. We very well could see only one job for rogue. Though personally I'm kind of hoping Thief will be the second job.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I cringe every time I see the word Rogue - Yoshi-P's words echo in my mind "Just think thief!"

Still very disappointed they are determined on this direction.

And gosh I hope it's not going to be a stealth class. I hated rogues in pvp in other games.

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So they called it rogue instead of thief. "A rose by any other name.." and all that. As some have stated rather plainly, thieves in older titles upgraded to Ninja so is it any surprise? As for the second Job, given Ninja is very clearly a DD I'd surmise a healer/support Job would be the most logical second Job. Dancer sounds very appropriate in this circumstance. A shame it's a Limsan class, I'd want to try it out.

The Thief class located in Limnsa?
It seems more probable for it to be in Ul'Dah...
you know...the struggles are real.

Eh I'm still on the side that the entire class system is going to eventually get the axe.

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Originally Posted by Sho86

So is Rogue then suppose to be the actual replacement of Thief? While I love Dancer all on its own, I was figuring there would be more of a Steal/Mug job coming in later, basically, Thief; as Rogue seems to focus more on the stealth part from the discription.


Edit - Guess the post below answers that question. Haven't been in the loop of things with the updates recently, still catching up x.x Oh well.

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Rogue is basically your thief but reformed; they use their expertise for good. It was explained when announced.

Let's hope we won't need second jobs and they just get rid of the 1.0 to 1.xx system when they introduced classic FF jobs.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

Let's hope we won't need second jobs and they just get rid of the 1.0 to 1.xx system when they introduced classic FF jobs.

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Yes and yes and yes. Get rid of it.

As it currently stands I imagine any 2nd job to not exactly be impressive.
The main reason (I imagine) SCH is as good a healer as it is is because of Eos giving additional skills. If it weren't for the ability to summon her you'd just have physick, adlo, succor, lustrate and sacred soil. Seems very... lackluster to me.

If I would want to play a 2nd job which has a completely different role from its original class, I would certainly hope there's some sort of change to make it work. For example what if Lancer would get a tank job? Just 5 enmity-related skills and that's it? And don't forget defensive cooldowns that would be necessary.

I might just be overthinking but to be honest the system as it is now looks to be limiting things a lot.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Eh I'm still on the side that the entire class system is going to eventually get the axe.

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i think the whole systeme need a rethink actually hehe

Classes having 30 levels and job crystals having 20 of their own could definitely allow a lot more flexibility with the system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LJUBaug_g

Just gonna drop this video there for all those out of the loop... Yes Rogue has stealth from whomever mentioned it earlier in the thread.
Also Jandor I do agree with you on the condition they keep the same number of skills the Class would get otherwise. Because to be honest not only is a 2nd job limiting in terms of stat points but LETS BE REAL a dumb idea for basically ANY of the current classes in the exception of arcanist BECAUSE of their summons.

Think about any other class and turn it into something else... You really think a poison stealth based dot DPS would make a good healer with 5 skills? You think it would compete with White Mage or hell even Scholar with even 8 skills?

Coming from FF5 and the like and seeing Warrior using a big axe, berserk, being based around rage, and NOT being a Berserker.
I get it, but... Feels weird, man.

I'm REALLY glad rogue isn't thief, cause a thief without steal/mug is like potato salad without potato.

I'm thinking revising the class/job system is going to happen by "Specializing" a class, ex. CNJ to WHM to Geomancer, or MRD to WAR to Dark Knight, along those lines.

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Originally Posted by Axeus

Think about any other class and turn it into something else... You really think a poison stealth based dot DPS would make a good healer with 5 skills? You think it would compete with White Mage or hell even Scholar with even 8 skills?

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Well, I ask you this, then. What makes a Scholar think it can compete with a White Mage? White Mage excels at healing because conjurer excels at healing. It's what they do. Scholar starts as a DD with 1 heal and 1 self heal in arcanist. Discounting the self heal this leaves Scholar with 6 healing actions, with Leeches being level 40 (seriously, why isn't it level 35). Have to discount cross-class as that'd be what unifies the three Jobs. Dancer would be no worse than Scholar, with maybe Ninja's 'kata' mechanic redone as Steps, with Step combinations performing various buffs, debuffs and heals. I can totally see it.

dancer will be better from pugilist actually but well... who know

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Dancer would be no worse than Scholar, with maybe Ninja's 'kata' mechanic redone as Steps, with Step combinations performing various buffs, debuffs and heals.

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Kata? You mean Mudra? Sorry had to get that out of the way first.

Second you miss my point. Not all Classes can be taken to a second job, sure if they use the mechanic that is already currently in place sure a Job can be made of it. But the thing is that's not always a possibility unless new classes are made with these said split mechanics in mind. IF they aren't then it's not possible, I think a melee based healer coming from a class that is MOSTLY DoT based (based on our current knowledge that is), unless changing the DoT skills to HoT, would make a lack luster healer.

Yet again scholar is strong not only because of the skills they get when they change, but the fact their summon changes and adds a few more skills, plus their cross class skills from conjurer and they can definitely do well.

I'm actually hoping they rethink giving classes two jobs. I really don't like how ACN is now, where I can only be a master of either SCH or SMN, or mediocre at both. Those 30 points make a big difference.

I'm not against Dancer's though, I do hope we seem them at some point!

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Originally Posted by Axeus

[Snip] IF they aren't then it's not possible, I think a melee based healer coming from a class that is MOSTLY DoT based (based on our current knowledge that is), unless changing the DoT skills to HoT, would make a lack luster healer.[Snip]

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This really got my imagination racing o.o

What if there was something like cleric stance but rather than switching stats it switched the effect of actions to be either offensive or healing?

The great combatants need to know a lot about the body, how their own body works and how to strike the opponent in the right place to do the most damage. It strikes me that that sort of knowledge could be used for good as well. Wouldn't it be fun to (for instance) punch someone within an inch of their life and then be able to heal them right back up again with a slight alteration to technique brought on by a different stance or going for slightly different pressure points or whatever? Or daggers slicing and dicing one minute, then doing some complex surgery the next?

That sounds very interesting to me and I'm not even a big fan of combat o.o

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I cringe every time I see the word Rogue - Yoshi-P's words echo in my mind "Just think thief!"

Still very disappointed they are determined on this direction.

And gosh I hope it's not going to be a stealth class. I hated rogues in pvp in other games.

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I don't and I've been playing FF games longer than you I can bet that.

I still don't get why everyone is upset about "Rogue" being "Thief" when "Marauder" is "Fighter", "Pugilist is "Monk" and "Monk" is "Black Belt".

I just don't even care about "Rogue" anymore. At least there are reasons. Because who wants to be associated with thieves even. Because Thancred had only 1 dagger for this whole time and is a Ninja supposed to go from 1 to 2 daggers or something? There are reasons.

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Originally Posted by Freyt

I just don't even care about "Rogue" anymore. At least there are reasons. Because who wants to be associated with thieves even. Because Thancred had only 1 dagger for this whole time and is a Ninja supposed to go from 1 to 2 daggers or something? There are reasons.

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Thancred now, is a gladiator, but when he was with the rogues he used two daggers, when he went to Ul'Dah he used only one as every other gladiators.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Well, I ask you this, then. What makes a Scholar think it can compete with a White Mage? White Mage excels at healing because conjurer excels at healing. It's what they do. Scholar starts as a DD with 1 heal and 1 self heal in arcanist. Discounting the self heal this leaves Scholar with 6 healing actions, with Leeches being level 40 (seriously, why isn't it level 35). Have to discount cross-class as that'd be what unifies the three Jobs. Dancer would be no worse than Scholar, with maybe Ninja's 'kata' mechanic redone as Steps, with Step combinations performing various buffs, debuffs and heals. I can totally see it.

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I don't know why you think Scholar can't compete with White Mage. That's silly talk, and this is coming from a White Mage main.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

I don't know why you think Scholar can't compete with White Mage. That's silly talk, and this is coming from a White Mage main.

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It was just a counter argument to the, "What makes you think Dancer can compete with Scholar or White Mage?" If Scholar can compete with White Mage, then so could Dancer if the devs do it right (like they did with Scholar).

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

As rogue is dagger class, and FF Dancers use daggers, I plead the Twelve about Dancer being the 2nd job of Rogue!

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itll probaly be thief but i wish it was dancer ;x

Recent interviews tend to say that there won't be any other "2nd job" any time soon until they rethink the armory system and the stat allocation system.

Not sure if this was mentioned or not, but Yoshi said in an interview( I want to say at E3 or just after) that they wouldn't be implementing thief because no city state would realistically allow a thieves guild to occur, and they want to keep it that all classes come from a guild. I'll try to find a link.

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Originally Posted by Genesis-xyx

Not sure if this was mentioned or not, but Yoshi said in an interview( I want to say at E3 or just after) that they wouldn't be implementing thief because no city state would realistically allow a thieves guild to occur, and they want to keep it that all classes come from a guild. I'll try to find a link.

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Nah, he wanted to call Rogue, "Thief". But the development team said that because classes need to be meshed into the story as an acceptable city-state organization. It's only named Rogue because of that lore, otherwise it would be named Thief instead. Thief job advocates don't accept that reasoning and hope there is a Thief job on the horizon.

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Originally Posted by Blue Gartr Translation

Truthfully, I wanted the job to be called “Thief,” but the development team wouldn’t have it (laughs). You see, there are guild headquarters in each city for all of the different classes, but if we had a class called “Thief,” it would have to be some kind of underground organization since it wouldn’t make sense to just be out in the open and it would be difficult to include in the main scenario. I told them, well, Limsa Lominsa is a port town and it was once overrun with pirates (laughs)…. but as Thancred pointed out, to properly organize it, the guild would have to be recognized by the nation at least to some extent, and it would be strange if they kept calling themselves “Thieves.” Also, the dual wielding nature of rogues is a form of martial arts that has some respect among Eorzeans, so we intended Rogue to be the Thieves of today.

In Japanese culture and also around the world, when you think about a stealth-type, Ninja immediately comes to mind. Partly because of this global appreciation, we decided that it would be the first job that we would add. I really liked Shadow in FFVI, and I wondered what it would feel like to have a contemporary Shadow. Our thinking is that when Thancred’s battle style is combined with the mysterious Yugiri’s knowledge from the East, a new job will be born in Eorzea.

So it’s a little different in the sense of Ninja and Thief from the past FF series? What about the “Steal” ability that Thieves have traditionally had in FF games?

Well, since this is a stand-alone game, we don’t have to maintain all of the traditional thief roles.

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Originally Posted by Game Watch インタビュー

　名称については……開発チームでも本音を言えば“シーフ”と呼びたいのです（苦笑）。でも各都市に拠点があって、クラスギルドがあるのですが、仮に地下組織でシーフとした場合、表舞台に出せず、そうなるとメインストーリー上も苦しくなります。彼らはかつてリムサ・ロミンサの港町……あ、言っちゃった（笑）……、がまだ海賊で荒れていた時代に、サンクレッドも言っていたとおり、裏で義賊的に活動していた。それがちゃんと体系化して、国にもある程度認められてギルドを持つことができた。それをずっとシーフ（盗賊）と呼び続けることは変だろうと。民衆からの尊敬の念もあり、体系化された武術として双剣士という形になった。僕らなりに考えた、今の時代のシーフを目指して作りました。

　世界中で日本の文化で、かつステルスタイプというと、やはり最初に忍者を思い浮かべる。グローバルで運営していることもあって、1番皆さんがいろんな想像を働かせやすいジョブだと感じています。後は単純に「FFVI」のシャドウが非常に気に入っているので、シャドウを今風にしていったらどうなるだろうという点も大きいですね。

　ユウギリという謎めいたキャラクターと共に東方から流れてきて、それがサンクレッドら元シーフたちと混ざり合い、新しいジョブがエオルゼアで誕生していく……そんなイメージだと思ってください。

――　「FF」のシーフと忍者という感覚とは少し違いますよね？　「FF」シリーズのシーフには「ぬすむ」というアビリティがあったりしましたが。

吉田氏：　確かにスタンドアローンのゲームではないので、極端に「FF」シリーズのシーフのイメージには寄っていないですね

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i dont really care that they decided to call thief rogue. that said i think their reasoning is pretty funny. a ninja is an assassin. is that so much of a upstanding career than thief? and thief was the name of the traditional ff job since the very first one but whatever. i think they did it to appeal to the WoW crowd. "Hey guys look, your 2-handed stealth dagger class is here too! And it turns into a ninja!" (an yes i know thf has always turned into nin, but some young wow players might not know that)

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

As rogue is dagger class, and FF Dancers use daggers, I plead the Twelve about Dancer being the 2nd job of Rogue!

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http://radioxiv.com/wp-content/uploa...ll-dancing.jpg

...Because dancing lalafells.

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Originally Posted by DoubleT

i dont really care that they decided to call thief rogue. that said i think their reasoning is pretty funny. a ninja is an assassin. is that so much of a upstanding career than thief? and thief was the name of the traditional ff job since the very first one but whatever. i think they did it to appeal to the WoW crowd. "Hey guys look, your 2-handed stealth dagger class is here too! And it turns into a ninja!" (an yes i know thf has always turned into nin, but some young wow players might not know that)

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I wish the problem was WoW players... no, the problem is XI players. They wanted Thief, the backstabbing DD with a hand ready to swipe gil/items/pin hate on a party member, and they wanted Ninja, the squishiest tank ever to tank a mob. Why, because of XI. Heaven forbid that this isn't XI...

I just hope they eventually realise that not all classes and jobs
need to begin at something legitimate at a town. It works for
rogue because they're being taught a new fighting style by
a foreign entity in Limsa. So they build the guild (even then the Rogue
name is still a bit misleading due to the definition of rogue, though
I understand their decision).

They could easily have a guild that formed of their own accord out in
the wilds. Doesnt take a town license to make an informal guild, and
teach things to their own members. For instance a recluse single handed
axe/hammer guild out in the wilds could exist. Find it and join etc.

When you hit 30, a quest could say, go seek this man outside of the town
and learn what they have been up to because it seems dangerous. This would
be a way to open jobs with backstory that's not so town/story friendly.

I hope they see this possibility in the future.

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Originally Posted by Volsung

I hope they see this possibility in the future.

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How to introduce Assassin and its base class.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I wish the problem was WoW players... no, the problem is XI players. They wanted Thief, the backstabbing DD with a hand ready to swipe gil/items/pin hate on a party member, and they wanted Ninja, the squishiest tank ever to tank a mob. Why, because of XI. Heaven forbid that this isn't XI...

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Hey! ...I resemble that remark!

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Originally Posted by Exstal

How to introduce Assassin and its base class.

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Very much so. The possibilities would really open up. I'm sure we'll see other guilds
in other towns, during expansions, or a large patch. But thinking outside the box is
a great way to introduce creativity, and some "against the grain" feel for people to
embrace.

If assassin would be different enough from ninja to be implemented, you could very
well find yourself happening upon a guild that's maybe actually hard to get to or
"hidden" to an extent.