Get rid of partial credit and the hunts are fixed.

What's keeping people from working together now, or getting upset at one another for attacking a monster before everyone has arived?

The pure and simple fear that they themselves might not get enough hits in to get full contribution and thus the full rewards when the monster dies.

The hunts need but one simple insignificant change to be fixed, simply give everyone who got a hit in on the monster full credit and full rewards.

Getting rid of partial-credit essentially will mean that there's no reason for anyone to try and lock others out of attacking the monster, no point to resets other than maybe letting more people hit it, and i feel it should make everything a whole lot more casual and friendly. No one will get upset at other players if their own rewards are not hindered by having other people there.

It's the zerg mentality that's killing hunts. They weren't designed for multiple 128 member LS's swarming every mark that spawns (especially B's and A's). Until rewards get tweaked/restricted or they make Allied Seals more readily available through daily/weekly marks the mob's not gonna slow down. I see where you are coming from. But If everyone got full credit for getting a single hit in? The mob would only get bigger.

Get rid of partial and people will tag and run off waiting for someone else to kill it.
Who wants to put in the effort when it means someone that's just standing close by will get the credit?

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Get rid of partial and people will tag and run off waiting for someone else to kill it.
Who wants to put in the effort when it means someone that's just standing close by will get the credit?

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They're still gonna have to kill it, since otherwise they have to remain in the zone for their rewards. And running away after hitting them once and resetting the monster should still result in them not getting anything. And they cant very well stay while letting it hit them. With a huge group there that wants to kill it and move on to the next thing, i am not worried of this happening. The benefits more than outweigh the one issue that might come up from this.

What effort? There's absolutely 0 effort involved - even the guys who put together "spreadsheets" (lol) haven't put in any effort since the first week.

I think SE has pretty much given us their answer. They don't care that many of us find hunts unplayable. They are not going to do anything about them, just like Atma.

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Originally Posted by Surian

What's keeping people from working together now, or getting upset at one another for attacking a monster before everyone has arived?

The pure and simple fear that they themselves might not get enough hits in to get full contribution and thus the full rewards when the monster dies.

The hunts need but one simple insignificant change to be fixed, simply give everyone who got a hit in on the monster full credit and full rewards.

Getting rid of partial-credit essentially will mean that there's no reason for anyone to try and lock others out of attacking the monster, no point to resets other than maybe letting more people hit it, and i feel it should make everything a whole lot more casual and friendly. No one will get upset at other players if their own rewards are not hindered by having other people there.

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THIS

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Originally Posted by Surian

They're still gonna have to kill it, since otherwise they have to remain in the zone for their rewards. And running away after hitting them once and resetting the monster should still result in them not getting anything. And they cant very well stay while letting it hit them. With a huge group there that wants to kill it and move on to the next thing, i am not worried of this happening. The benefits more than outweigh the one issue that might come up from this.

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THAT

Partial credit is there for a reason. It's suppose to be designed so that if you don't put in the effort you don't get the full credit.

Now yeah, with the way the hunts happen during most of the day, this tends to have a negative effect. If the mob's been pulled and attacked before you and/or your party reach it, even though you're doing all you can, you can only get a few hits in by the time it's dead and you only receive partial credit.

It's really the same thing, only the latter is caused by a mixture of bad luck and impatient people (or maybe you and/or you're party just honestly didn't make it there soon enough) and the former is there to prevent people who hardly participate from getting the same rewards as those that actually did stick with the fight from the beginning or dps'd their butts off.

Giving everyone full credit is a horrible idea though. Really.

no offense but players from Diabolos should not comment on this issue. We have nowhere near even 1/4 of the amount of people that are going after hunts on the normally populated servers, thus we really don't understand what they are going through. I find A's all the time on our server that sit around unclaimed for 30 minutes or more sometimes (I have no hunt ls to call in). Heck we found an S sitting around the other day unclaimed and practically had to beg the server to come kill it. It took almost 10 minutes for people to even start showing up.

How about instead of doing away with partial credit, your reward is based on your participation scaled to the number of people that participated, or better, based on the time it took to down the mark.

Mark went down in 5 seconds and got 1-2 hits in? Get full credit.

Mark went down in 20 seconds and got 1-2 hit in? Get partial credit.

Of course, you also have to scale so that one cast from a blm or something is worth much more than one hit from a monk, considering cast time and etc.

I think that could strike a much better balance, since people wouldn't want to just leave after "tagging" the mark?

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

no offense but players from Diabolos should not comment on this issue. We have nowhere near even 1/4 of the amount of people that are going after hunts on the normally populated servers, thus we really don't understand what they are going through. I find A's all the time on our server that sit around unclaimed for 30 minutes or more sometimes (I have no hunt ls to call in). Heck we found an S sitting around the other day unclaimed and practically had to beg the server to come kill it. It took almost 10 minutes for people to even start showing up.

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Must have been off hours...Every time I've hunted (a handful) you have to rush your face off to get to the mark or else you might miss the pull.

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Originally Posted by Jakeson

Must have been off hours...Every time I've hunted (a handful) you have to rush your face off to get to the mark or else you might miss the pull.

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You're lucky you even have off-hours. Day time is PST/EST/MST, not day-time is Aussie/NZ party land time. Marks die just as fast in the day as they do during the night (for NA players).

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Originally Posted by Maero

Better yet have hunts instanced. There is way too much lag at some hunts because of 80 or more players there and those for instance i get maybe 1 or 2 hits in as can only see the target for a split sec before it dissapears.
And people pull not because they are afraid of not getting the marks, etc. its because they do not want others to get it.
Countless times people have shouted for Naul and even asked please wait omw, so what do they do, pull.
Naul since patch had taken me 2 full weeks to finally get.
Hunts were a good idea but just like many things SE have done, it is poorly implemented.

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That's called, "trials".

Better yet have hunts instanced. There is way too much lag at some hunts because of 80 or more players there and those for instance i get maybe 1 or 2 hits in as can only see the target for a split sec before it dissapears.
And people pull not because they are afraid of not getting the marks, etc. its because they do not want others to get it.
Countless times people have shouted for Naul and even asked please wait omw, so what do they do, they pulled it.
Naul since patch had taken me 2 full weeks to finally get.
Hunts were a good idea but just like many things SE have done, it is poorly implemented.

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Originally Posted by Surian

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whelp no more need for me to join parties for hunts. just gotta wait for calls in /sh /y /l# /fc and just go to the pos, cast something till it hits, and go twiddle my thumbs as people do the work to kill it. max credit, full rewards, this is balance. nice suggestion Surian.

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Originally Posted by Legacy_Wolfwood

whelp no more need for me to join parties for hunts. just gotta wait for calls in /sh /y /l# /fc and just go to the pos, cast something till it hits, and go twiddle my thumbs as people do the work to kill it. max credit, full rewards, this is balance. nice suggestion Surian.

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Have you seen my suggestion?

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Originally Posted by Kyou_Ruxy

Have you seen my suggestion?

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just went and read it but i still dont think that would solve it. i think that once you enter the "hunt circle" (kinda like a fate circle but hunt circle is invisible but its there considering you can reset the mob) you must participate for the duration of when you enter that invisible circle. the mob should not be able to be targeted, seen, or have any hp indicator available to be seen to the player until you enter the invisible circle (this includes TT). once you enter the circle you must participate till the end to get full credit. even if you leave the circle the participation counter is still going to avoid people trying to 1 hit (or a few times) and walk away. for all i care they can make the hp invisible to everyone so people just have to participate till its dead. but this is only my suggestion and how i feel hunts would work better along with them making the hunt rendering a priority.

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Originally Posted by Kyou_Ruxy

How about instead of doing away with partial credit, your reward is based on your participation scaled to the number of people that participated, or better, based on the time it took to down the mark.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Better yet have hunts instanced.

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both of these are much more complicated to implement. the OPs suggestion is simple and effective.

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Originally Posted by Legacy_Wolfwood

whelp no more need for me to join parties for hunts. just gotta wait for calls in /sh /y /l# /fc and just go to the pos, cast something till it hits, and go twiddle my thumbs as people do the work to kill it. max credit, full rewards, this is balance. nice suggestion Surian.

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not many people will do this since it would be more beneficial to the player to end the hunt so they can move on to the next one. no need to be fearmongering here.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

I find A's all the time on our server that sit around unclaimed for 30 minutes or more sometimes (I have no hunt ls to call in).

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Should shout for a party. A ranks are actually very fun to fight in a small group (they actually have mechanics, which the zerg never sees as they kill B's and A's in ten-twenty seconds).

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

not many people will do this since it would be more beneficial to the player to end the hunt so they can move on to the next one. no need to be fearmongering here.

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that wont matter lol if its a zerg. once its down and another is called they all will move to the next one anyways. as long as you know the location of where they are going, people can just 1 hit relax and just follow the crowd with minimal efforts...

kinda like atma groups when it started, you do the work as i get my participation thing.

All you have to do is be in a full party and everyone hit it once or twice and you'll get full credit. Don't be mad cuz ur bad.

I've tried to get into groups for Hunts, and was often ignored whenever I asked to join a group (if not outright mocked). I've watched a Dragoon go "lol pulling" and pull a mark before the Horde even shows up. People just don't want others, partied or not, to get any credit for these hunts.

The idea of different levels of credit to punish "lazy players" in this game has been absurd from the start, and is even more absurd for hunts. Take FATEs, where this concept was originally implemented. The worry is that someone casually grinding FATES was going to enter the FATE, tag a mob and then leave. Essentially, though, this often ALREADY HAPPENS. The difference is, folks enter a FATE, do just enough to get "full credit" and THEN leave, after checking to make sure that they feel that the people remaining are up to the task of finishing off the FATE without them.

So, the original reason for gradient credit has already failed. Now, on top of this, SE added things that require a player to finish a FATE with full (gold medal) credit. This is no longer a matter of casual experience grinding - someone who is targeting a specific FATE for a specific reason isn't going to bounce from FATE to FATE. They're going to see that FATE through to completion. Each time that dedicated individual gets to a FATE just a bit too late to contribute enough for gold, they are being unfairly punished. They had every reason to give their all to that FATE (and probably did in what scant seconds they managed to participate), but nope, silver or bronze, and a potentially hours-long wait for the next occurrance.

Hunt mobs are the same way; a player, especially one trying to fill a weekly Elite Bill, will race as hard as they can to reach an Elite Mark when it pops with every intention of finishing the thing off. Being lazy, contributing just enough for credit, and then leaving is unlikely to have crossed their mind - particularly since actually participating in the fight is a mind-bogglingly small time investment given how fast they die.

A system that awards full participation for any participation may be open for such abuse, it is true, but the current system punishes the innocent (who honestly want to give their all) far more often than it punishes the guilty (who want to be lazy, tag the monster, and then walk away to do something else).

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Get rid of partial and people will tag and run off waiting for someone else to kill it.
Who wants to put in the effort when it means someone that's just standing close by will get the credit?

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Just make it so you have to be within certain close distance to get credit...problem solved...

The issue with hunts are that the rewards are too great. Yet your suggestion is to increase rewards? That is what will happen if everyone gets full credit. There are already way too many people in these zergfests, this would just double the amount of people in hunts every day. That won't help lag, that won't help with the slower players as the mobs will now die faster with more people doing them. So now everyone that gets there a second too late will be raging, so people will still get angry. This will become solo activity with a ls. No more hunt parties. I don't see what this suggestion would solve at all. I can already see the huntbot complaints.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

not many people will do this since it would be more beneficial to the player to end the hunt so they can move on to the next one. no need to be fearmongering here.

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You'd be surprised about how stupid people can actually be with this sort of thing. Leviathan, back during launch, had many FATE parties that would leave pretty much every FATE around halfway through. While not exactly a bad thing when there's more people to finish it, it often resulted in a single soloer taking on a FATE that's been buffed up to deal with 8-20 people. This often resulted in those players dying and FATEs being failed while the party simply stayed back at a town once they had partially cycled through the FATEs on the maps, waiting for a new one. Exp was still partially gained but... wow... our peers aren't exactly the brightest about what's most "beneficial", or in their mind "efficient".

Even now, I still find people do that sort of thing. The good thing is, if full credit was given for around one single threat builder, elites do not base themselves on how many people are around. I do not doubt the stupidity of many others (not to mention the trolling benefits) to just attack once and run away. A few nights ago, I encountered around 13 instances of tanks resetting elites among 4 that I came across. I hate this player base... so much...

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Originally Posted by Surian

What's keeping people from working together now, or getting upset at one another for attacking a monster before everyone has arived?

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The hunts are fine. There is no rule that you have to wait for anyone & everyone that wants to participate. That's part of the hunt's open world content. If the mob is up & you're nearby, you can participate. If not, then better luck next time.

If you want full participation for rewards, use the duty finder for an Instanced event. If you want the experience the thrill & randomness of the hunts, then go hunt.

But then again, I personally am not ODC'ing on the hunts. Usually I'm in the area doing something else when I see a shout or find a mark myself.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You'd be surprised about how stupid people can actually be with this sort of thing. Leviathan, back during launch, had many FATE parties that would leave pretty much every FATE around halfway through.

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hunts isn't the same thing though, there are only 3 hunts in each zone and very rarely will more than one of them be up at the same time and if you leave the zone before the thing dies you are not going to get anything.

Bs and As die so fast it wouldn't even matter. the only scenario this might happen is and S is up and a B is up in the same zone, someone tags and S and goes to kill the B.

S don't spawn enough for this to be an epidemic, the reverse of this is a bigger problem, definitely lesser of two evils.

I just love it when I find a B-rank mark and call it on shout and I get a response, 'Please hold! I just told 8 linkshells!' Really? 8 linkshells... for a B rank? O.o

Nope. There are plenty of A/S hunts where so many people show up that everything is untargetable, and I get zero credit, not even just partial.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

I just love it when I find a B-rank mark and call it on shout and I get a response, 'Please hold! I just told 8 linkshells!' Really? 8 linkshells... for a B rank? O.o

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man, I solo those.

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Originally Posted by kidvideo

man, I solo those.

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Depends entirely on your class and gear.

Monk in Fists of Earth, with several cross-classed defensive cooldowns, and a Chocobo with Choco-Cure (at least!) in Healer stance, and you can solo just about every single B-Rank mark there is. Summoners have it even easier, since they get TWO pets, and of them is actually tanky!

On topic, I think this suggestion is a double-edged sword. It'd help a lot with people like myself, who aren't able to get full credit on the higher rank marks either because they can't even see them, or they die too fast to do so, but it also, as has been pointed out, encourages laziness.

I, personally, believe that A and S-Rank (and possibly B-rank as well) marks should've been similar to Treasure Maps. You either buy or find a special item that you take to a certain location to force the mob to spawn, and only you and your party members can attack it. This prevents the zerg problem, and allows players to basically pick their own difficulty for the mark by deciding how many people to bring with them. I'm still holding out hope that SE will change hunts to be like this...

Edit: Another, and arguably MUCH easier to implement fix, is two-fold: First, remove Bloody Hunting Logs from all Elite Marks' drop pools, and second, cap the number of Allied Seals you can get in a week to just enough to purchase two logs. After all, you can get a bunch of items that are otherwise weekly-capped in other content, so why should it be any different for Allied Seals?

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Originally Posted by Jakeson

Must have been off hours...Every time I've hunted (a handful) you have to rush your face off to get to the mark or else you might miss the pull.

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Even if off hours, waiting for 10mins before people show up for a S rank is incredible. Diablos is probably god damn lowly populated.

Such things never happened in Tonberry Server. 4am, 5am? You can be sure that the mob will be zerg'd down within 3-5mins taking into account of the communication time and travelling/waiting time for hordes to come.

I feel like there are a lot of players on Diabolos. o_o; Specially with hunts now, there's usually always people roaming around for hunts plus every city/hub always has a ton of people in them, even in the middle of the night (granted many might be afk).

I'm sure there are servers with even more players, but still. I haven't seen people wait 10 minutes for an S rank, maybe 5 or so. People tend to gather pretty quick, specially when it's an S rank.

I would be interested in seeing a chart/graph of some kind by SE that lists total active players per server. I mean, I've certainly never felt like the server was sparsely populated.

But that being said it's not a zergfest 24/7. There are times, generally like 1am-7am(ish) cst were people wait a minute or two for others to gather at A and even B rank Elite Marks. Yet, it does seem like the time when it starts to become a zergfest has been steadily increasing each week.

What is "zergfest" anyway? I mean, we zerg the mobs anyway with anywhere from 3 to 7+ parties. It's just at certain times we wait for those 7+ parties to get to an A, and maybe even a B if we're feeling generous and no other A is up. The majority of the day though, is like every other server's complaints I would imagine, once that first party reaches the mob they pull it and start fighting and everybody else has to rush there before it's dead just to try and get some credit. This generally happens when certain players wake up and get online, because obviously there are times of the day when the parties wait for others to gather before pulling.

Hell yes. SE fix it ASAP so I get full credit for doing nothing. Also increase rewards so I can tag something and get my weekly cap.

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Originally Posted by Surian

They're still gonna have to kill it, since otherwise they have to remain in the zone for their rewards. And running away after hitting them once and resetting the monster should still result in them not getting anything. And they cant very well stay while letting it hit them. With a huge group there that wants to kill it and move on to the next thing, i am not worried of this happening. The benefits more than outweigh the one issue that might come up from this.

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yesss, make them exactly like ATMA farming!
find a populate fate, run in, cast scathe, and onto the next fate!

yay.
brilliant.

I really want this too. I always get full reward on B and A ranks though, cause for a healer you simply need your party to be there in time and you are pretty much guaranteed to get full reward... But S ranks are a different matter all together.

On S ranks, a lot of players can't even see the enemy (me for example). If I manage to see him once and land a hit, I'm set, cause I can just do heals the rest of the fight... but with dps jobs in your group, they never seem to be able to get enough enmity for the whole party to get full reward. A lot of people get DC'ed too... So there needs to be a fix there, but they could just make it much easier for themselves, and reward everyone who have hit it once.