Fieldcraft Demimateria III; Does anyone feel a bit shafted?

When I started this game SE stated they wanted to make gatherers and crafters their own special class.
Yet with 2.3, we are staring at a system where CUL and GSM largely have exclusive access to mats needed by gatherers for progression.
"You need 10x Fieldcraft Demimateria III for your next tool."
What does that say to us as players? It's not a challenge, because for it to be challenging, you have to actually be physically able to do it.

How does the community feel about what I feel to be in-equality?

Well. You can do what the devs presumably meant for you to do : fish/desynth big fish, get swimwear, sell swimwear, buy demimateria.

GSM might have a better grasp of fieldcraft/mastercraft materia, but guess what they have to do to obtain primal materia?

Yup.... I feel shafted... first 99x junk item... ok can live with that... then 10 fieldcraft III demimateria... ok this would be enough for an upgrade... but no... on top of that 3 mastercraft demimateria.... UGH... at this point I'm considering if it's even worth bothering to upgrade... since most likely the next update there will be even more crap like this... And atm I am overmelded to the point of I'm off like 2/6 points off of the 408 gathering(depending if miner/botanist).

I mean stuff like this should be enjoyable but timewise this is just a grind and to top it off would need to start making some serious gil if I wanted to upgrade my gear anytime soon.

mastercraft are worthless due to the ratio of them put out vs field3 and their respective usages... you should be far more concerned with field3 costs... master is a moot point and anyone buying them is an idiot that doesn't know better because they are rapid decaying in price, field3 however will hold and or go up and is an easy pickings for resellers that have the millions to regulate the field 3 on their server

You'll see more field 3 when more people are approaching 100 desynth, since those nice little 3 star furniture pieces can give you two fieldcraft III.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

You'll see more field 3 when more people are approaching 100 desynth, since those nice little 3 star furniture pieces can give you two fieldcraft III.

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All the three star furniture recipes far outstripe Field III prices on my server.
No one really wants to farm primals.

Yes I agree I do feel a bit shafted that to upgrade my gear I am totally dependant on another class to do so. I really don't think I'll bother to be honest.

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Originally Posted by balanced123

All the three star furniture recipes far outstripe Field III prices on my server.
No one really wants to farm primals.

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Carbuncle Chronometer, Carbuncle Round Table, Carbuncle Armchair, Carbuncle Desk, and Summoning Bell are all in the 30-50k range mark on my server, just like 10 tomato relish.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Carbuncle Chronometer, Carbuncle Round Table, Carbuncle Armchair, Carbuncle Desk, and Summoning Bell are all in the 30-50k range mark on my server, just like 10 tomato relish.

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Yeah no, not even close on my server...I'll even look up exact current prices for you right now:

Carbuncle Chronometer, 4 for sale: Cheapest 136,999>197,000
Carbuncle Armchair, 8 4 sale: Cheapest 178,000>200,000
Carbuncle Round Table, 6 for sale: Cheapest 198,000>272,999 with an outlier of 999,999
Carbuncle Desk, 6 for sale: Cheapest 286,000>400,000
Summoning Bell, 3 for sale: Cheapest 108,941>199,000
Carbuncle Chair (since it is the cheaper mat cost one), 4 for sale 120,000>212,000

The crafted rubies: start at 59,000 on our server
The emery if you can craft the ruby yourself:20K and up

Fieldcraft III materia=400K as lowest cost, although most are around the 450K mark. (steady price)
Mastercraft materia=268K as lowest, with market on the downcline.

So for many gatherers on my server, it would actually be more prudent to gather materials, and sell them, and then use the proceeds to purchase the needed Fieldcrafts/Masters than outright level a desynth to make them....at least now that enough time has passed. The only reason to level a desynth is because you want to level it.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

The emery if you can craft the ruby yourself:20K and up

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If you can't craft NQ 3 star recipes without the ilvl75 tool, getting it won't help you any.

People aren't just going to make difficult items that you need and flood the markets with them at cost.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If you can't craft NQ 3 star recipes without the ilvl75 tool, getting it won't help you any.

People aren't just going to make difficult items that you need and flood the markets with them at cost.

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Umm...you do realize a specific class (goldsmith) makes the ruby right?

You do realize that that ruby is then used, by get this, other crafting classes to make said 3-star items.

....so. Yes, it IS plausible to have not leveled goldsmith, and STILL be able to craft 3 star items on other crafting classes. This is even more plausible when you factor in it is totally plausible to reliably craft 3-star furniture on Other classes without needing any cross-skills from goldsmithing to do it.


But again, in the context of the OP's original post, it does seem to be a bit much to expect, gatherers to basically either level (or have leveled) a crafting class/and then level it's desynth to get their tool. The actual item we have to gather, is simple to get, and easy. Everything else for the tool however, is either 'just buy it and save yourself the hassle' or as has been pointed out, requires crafting.

Meanwhile, for the actual crafting tools, you only need 3 mastercraft materia+ the crafted item x5 (which does take Fieldcraft materia, but hey, you're actually crafting and probably actually have some).

It probably would have been better to require the 3 mastercraft demateria (just like crafting tools) but then made the DOL's have a more difficult item to gather than they have currently....or make them gather a far larger amount. At least then, you'd be 'gathering to earn your gathering tool for the most part' as opposed to grinding crafting to earn your gathering tool.


So anyway, my point was, unless you can craft all the necessary items (which a DOL might not have even touched...or might not have proper class leveled to make a mat cheaply) , it's probably better to just buy your Fieldcraft III's/Mastercraft materia's needed for the Tools w/ proceeds from selling items you gather.

The people going for 100 desynth can either craft 3 star recipes, or they are not going to make it past 80 anytime soon. By the time you are melded enough to craft 3 stars with one craft, you are very likely to be able to craft NQ 3 star recipes in all crafts if you use food and FC buffs. The people that can make 3 star furniture in one craft but can't make a NQ ruby are very few, and will probably fail at their first attempt(s) at making 3 star furniture.

3 star furniture in 5 different crafts costs as much to make as 10 tomato relish (artisan's spectacles) for a whole lot less effort. People will use it to hit 100 in desynth for those crafts. These pieces give fieldcraft III, and can give you two of them at a time. I stated this as a response to mastercraft being worthless due to the ratio you get from artisan glasses vs what you need to the new tools.

You can also get fieldcraft III from the two star recipes that are ingredients for other two star recipes, but not gear. Look up rose gold clasps if you don't know what I'm talking about, there are several of them. They also cost 2-3 times as much as 3 star furniture, and give you at most 1 fieldcraft materia. They are level 70, so they are useful to level up desynth in some cases.

Another whining thread about "why I need to put an effort into levelling my class/job up to max?". If you don't want to put an effort then don't do it - just don't put it so that another job has something easier. That alchemist or goldsmith who as OP think has Fieldcraft demimateria served to him on silver plate has spent a lot of gil to level up his class including buying materials from DoL. Also I'm sure that blacksmith, armourer as well leatherworker and weaver can get all possible type of demimateria while they need to put a lot of effort to max out their gear to be able to do it.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

The people going for 100 desynth can either craft 3 star recipes, or they are not going to make it past 80 anytime soon. By the time you are melded enough to craft 3 stars with one craft, you are very likely to be able to craft NQ 3 star recipes in all crafts if you use food and FC buffs. The people that can make 3 star furniture in one craft but can't make a NQ ruby are very few, and will probably fail at their first attempt(s) at making 3 star furniture.

3 star furniture in 5 different crafts costs as much to make as 10 tomato relish (artisan's spectacles) for a whole lot less effort. People will use it to hit 100 in desynth for those crafts. These pieces give fieldcraft III, and can give you two of them at a time. I stated this as a response to mastercraft being worthless due to the ratio you get from artisan glasses vs what you need to the new tools.

You can also get fieldcraft III from the two star recipes that are ingredients for other two star recipes, but not gear. Look up rose gold clasps if you don't know what I'm talking about, there are several of them. They also cost 2-3 times as much as 3 star furniture, and give you at most 1 fieldcraft materia. They are level 70, so they are useful to level up desynth in some cases.

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My CRP desynth is 90, and I have my Rani Supra (BTN tool), I made 0 rubies, try again? Still, you keep going about this all wrong. You are going 'well if you have all crafting classes...or even can create a 3-star on blah blah blah' which is all well and good for CRAFTERS to earn a CRAFTING tool. But the OP is asking why SE is requiring so much CRAFTING for a GATHERING tool.

You're also missing the point that gathering the 99 items is EASY...like beyond easy, to do. The items only need to be NQ, which means you can even use +yield skills to make it faster. Why is the actual gathering part of my tool quest the easiest part? Shouldn't this be the part that is a time/gil investment?

And yes, I personally do have all crafts leveled...I do not have all crafts geared/master books earned. Because I don't need them.


PS on my server, first off Tomato Relish probably is your 'cheapest' option as it's mats are crazy cheap. 3-star furniture while 'less synths' is in many cases worth more to sell, or the mat prices don't justify the means. (the myth items needed for the synths >more than the tomato relish synth items x 20 typically) Which is why, I go back to on my server, if you are a DOL who lacks the skill to craft/desynth for Fieldcraft III's/Mastercrafts, your probably better off just buying them. (when you factor in the time+gilsink leveling crafting/desynthing would be vs. just go out an gather raw mats to sell to make up the difference).

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Originally Posted by Adler

Another whining thread about "why I need to put an effort into levelling my class/job up to max?". If you don't want to put an effort then don't do it - just don't put it so that another job has something easier. That alchemist or goldsmith who as OP think has Fieldcraft demimateria served to him on silver plate has spent a lot of gil to level up his class including buying materials from DoL. Also I'm sure that blacksmith, armourer as well leatherworker and weaver can get all possible type of demimateria while they need to put a lot of effort to max out their gear to be able to do it.

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Yeah, you know, in 1.0 SE tried to make it so your Relic Quest required Crafting/Gathering or lots of gil making too. Most people simply didn't do the quest, those who did, with few exceptions spent millions on it. Because the 2nd meld then, was about and 18% chance....the synth was not reliably HQ'd and used mats that were tedious to get. This was the step after, the entry content you had to grind for 9 key items, with 2-3 battleclasses and 2 DOL,2-3 crafters....to effeciently complete the content.

People were fed up with needing to have DOL/DOH leveled to earn a battleclass weapon, at the time the best weapon in the game, because many battleclass players don't have all crafts/dols leveled...or might have some leveled, but not the ones they needed.

So the quest was changed dramatically in 2.0. Now you only need to purchase the base weapon (which is easily crafted/cheap) + meld 2 materia that have 100% chance of affixing, everything else is 'go kill this'.


So try again, the OP isn't saying 'make it easier' they are saying 'make it more relevant to my class'

Battleclasses should grow via battles
Crafters should grow via crafting
And gatherers should grow via gathering.

Make the content challenging yes, but keep it within the scope of what each class was designed to do.


Oh and the 'they bought mats from you so to level so you should be forced to buy from them' is hogwash....unless you think a DOL who can't make their own gear is running around naked w/o melds. DOL is one of the few roles that relies heavily on crafted items for their performance...more so than battleclasses tbh (dungeons drop battle gear).

^damn right

It seems like a lot of their new crafting/gathering content seems to follow the same pattern.

You want this shiny? We've placed said shiny 10,000 miles from your current location. You have two choices:

1. You can walk those 10,000 miles, which will take you an exorbitant amount of time.

2. You can spend millions of gil, and get it with minimal effort.

Seems like poor game design, in my opinion. I have no problem with exorbitant shinys. This kind of "challenge" does appeal to some (just not everyone). I also have no problem with the 10,000 mile trip, assuming the trip is fun and engaging.

Grinding is always going to be part of the MMO equation. However, the journey should be broken up into fun and engaging milestones, with an added dash of variety. Even if the variety is superficial or aesthetic, it still helps to break up the monotony of the task.

I would think it would be in the development team's best interest to keep all of their audience engaged, as opposed to catering to the ones that will simply do the content for the sake of doing the content. Most players are not easily as forgiving. If the work isn't fun, then it's work.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

My CRP desynth is 90, and I have my Rani Supra (BTN tool), I made 0 rubies, try again?

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And how is that desynth progress past 90 going? Rubies cost 20k to make, rest of the ingredients in those recipes come out to another 20k tops. Your other options will cost you 4 times as much at least to make, or they will get you less than 0.01 per desynth average, or it's a 1/9 or 2/9 primal drop that you are rolling against 7 other people for.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

PS on my server, first off Tomato Relish probably is your 'cheapest' option as it's mats are crazy cheap.

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Yeah the ingredients are cheap, unless you factor in that you need 21 shards each. And it takes 10 HQ to get one pair of glasses. That turns that 500 gil recipe into 30k per pair of glasses.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

And how is that desynth progress past 90 going? Rubies cost 20k to make, rest of the ingredients in those recipes come out to another 20k tops. Your other options will cost you 4 times as much at least to make, or they will get you less than 0.01 per desynth average, or it's a 1/9 or 2/9 primal drop that you are rolling against 7 other people for.


Yeah the ingredients are cheap, unless you factor in that you need 21 shards each. And it takes 10 HQ to get one pair of glasses. That turns that 500 gil recipe into 30k per pair of glasses.

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Listen, you need to stop. You are wrong overall, on so many levels:

1. The OP, the topic is not about 'fastest' way to 100 in desynth, it's not even supposed to be about crafting. It's about 'hey SE, why all the grindy-crafty stuff for DOL...shouldn't we at least be doing grindy DOL stuff?
2. You keep assuming your servers prices=all server prices. That's simply not true. Overall, I waste less time/mats and gil by grinding out the 3-star furniture and selling it, than I would in blowing it up for leveling desynth...all other things not considered (like can you make the sub mats etc). So for some people, just buying the items needed IS less of a gil sink than procuring them on their own, due to the steps they'd need to take.
3. I am in no rush to get CRP desynth to 100. I got it high enough for my needs/got the BOTANY tool I wanted. So I probably will level it the remander of the way on assorted primal weapons, steps, and carby chairs. But right now, this isn't at all important to me in game.


So please just stop.

You're wrong that everyone who can craft 3-star synths can necessarily make their own mats for every said synth.
You're wrong that leveling the crafts needed/desynth needed is a better use of most 'dedicated DOL's time or energy
You're wrong that it's good development on SE's part that DOL rely so heavily on DOH to get their tool key items.

And most of your imput have been off-topic at best, and bad advice for many at worst. Every server is different, but for some, the best method is to buy the items.

I agree with OP and I am saddened that they didn't continue down some variant of how you got the luminary tool. Getting the ilvl70 hat and tools wasn't too bad since it relied on using your on class except progression is all about gear and melding more. I was really hoping the they would do something more with crafting classes than turn them into spiritbonding gear producing machines but that seems to be the way they are going now and don't even get me started on spiritbonding as a mechanic.

Sure, it sucks, but there's also zero reason to get get those DoL tools in the first place. Not only is the difference between the i70 and i75 tools minimal; there's nothing you can't get w/o he 75 tool. I like Botany a lot, but there's no way I'm wasting my time/money on that.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

So try again, the OP isn't saying 'make it easier' they are saying 'make it more relevant to my class'

Battleclasses should grow via battles
Crafters should grow via crafting
And gatherers should grow via gathering.

Make the content challenging yes, but keep it within the scope of what each class was designed to do.


Oh and the 'they bought mats from you so to level so you should be forced to buy from them' is hogwash....unless you think a DOL who can't make their own gear is running around naked w/o melds. DOL is one of the few roles that relies heavily on crafted items for their performance...more so than battleclasses tbh (dungeons drop battle gear).

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Every crafter need items from other crafters and DoL - you can't level up single crafting job efficiently and cost effective. Every DoL need items from crafters but they don't need to, for example, to buy shards to craft something - instead they sell those things. Even battle jobs can't be used well unless you use cross skills from other classes.
Also DoL don't need to go through all the "master recipe book thing". I have leveled up all DoL and DoH - it took much less effort all the way to level DoL and the fact there are some items that you can't get by gathering is still no big deal compared to what is needed to get best stuff for crafter.

A little recap for you:

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

1. The OP, the topic is not about 'fastest' way to 100 in desynth, it's not even supposed to be about crafting.

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I was responding to a post a few down from the OP:

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Originally Posted by Elasia

mastercraft are worthless due to the ratio of them put out vs field3 and their respective usages...

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

You'll see more field 3 when more people are approaching 100 desynth

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

<Nuh-uh, I can't make them from scratch and they are super expensives on the MB>

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

2. You keep assuming your servers prices=all server prices. That's simply not true.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Carbuncle Chronometer, Carbuncle Round Table, Carbuncle Armchair, Carbuncle Desk, and Summoning Bell are all in the 30-50k range mark on my server, just like 10 tomato relish.

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Server prices don't vary that much, myth tomes are now cheap due to the boost with 2.3 and especially due to the hunts. Are you saying that there are servers where 210 shards costs far less than one 500 myth tome item?

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

You're wrong that everyone who can craft 3-star synths can necessarily make their own mats for every said synth.
You're wrong that leveling the crafts needed/desynth needed is a better use of most 'dedicated DOL's time or energy
You're wrong that it's good development on SE's part that DOL rely so heavily on DOH to get their tool key items.

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Most of the crafters that are going to be hitting 100 desynth aren't jacks of one trade, they can make everything. Most of the people cranking out the mastercraft/fieldcraft III are at artisan level in most/all of their crafts, and they are going to be cranking out more fieldcraft III when they are approaching 100 desynth.

The other two things I never said, but:

Spend your time and energy doing what you want, it's a game. Just don't whine that you don't want to do the content required to get an item.

It's a social game, there need to be more interactions between DoL and DoH. This is a good first step, now they just need to toss in high level recipes that use up high level gathered items at a decent rate. I could spend 3 minutes every 70 gathering up 15 of a 2-star item, and in that 70 minutes get enough myth tomes to use up 1/15.

Am I one of the only people enjoying this process?

I have 4 of my crafts leveled to 50, none of them 3 star yet. I have botany at 408 gathering/38something perception, and i have a miner who can do the one star nodes.

I've started my goldsmith desynth path yesterday, at ~70 skill on that. My next goal will be to level the culinarian for the easy artisans tools. Sure, i spent a but ton buying sharsd (which, yeah.. i could farm, but i just couldn't be bothered farming that many lol).

Ultimately, this content gives me MORE incentive to go work on my crafts more, which i LOVE, but up-till-now have found difficult to get even reliably hqing 2 star items. I'm loving this personally. The nice shiny new tools at the end of it all is just that, nice and shiny, but by no means why i'm doing it.

Everyone assumes they are going to be able to a) fish up an i70+ fish b) desynth said fish c) sell for 5,000,000
Right now Fieldcraft III is 400,000g. Guess what? We have ~4-5 people shouting trying to sell 1 swimsuit.
The same people for the past ~3 days.
Sit tight kids, cause it looks like the gil buyers are the only ones getting supras... atleast on my server.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

....so. Yes, it IS plausible to have not leveled goldsmith, and STILL be able to craft 3 star items on other crafting classes. This is even more plausible when you factor in it is totally plausible to reliably craft 3-star furniture on Other classes without needing any cross-skills from goldsmithing to do it.

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Plausible doesn't make it smart.

Made 20 Carbuncle Chronometers

Got a single Fieldcraft Demi III out of those (desynth went up from 91.91 to 96.67) - broke maybe 3 or 4 and the rest were all mats and that single demi....
Made 2 more with what I recovered and got a double fieldcraft demi III from one of them.

So all that time and effort and gil, sure i skilled up almost 5 points, but I didnt get what I wanted out of it.
Going to try summoning bells next (BSM Desynth at 1.00 for now though).

Sigh.

Still making those spicy tomato relish forever since I -had- 20k shards of each.
I do everything, so I don't mind needing fieldcrafts for gathering but it is indeed redundant, they should've required Clear ones or somethings instead...

i just bought all 10 for 300K each :( got my rod though

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Originally Posted by Kalandros

Made 20 Carbuncle Chronometers

Got a single Fieldcraft Demi III out of those (desynth went up from 91.91 to 96.67) - broke maybe 3 or 4 and the rest were all mats and that single demi....
Made 2 more with what I recovered and got a double fieldcraft demi III from one of them.

So all that time and effort and gil, sure i skilled up almost 5 points, but I didnt get what I wanted out of it.
Going to try summoning bells next (BSM Desynth at 1.00 for now though).

Sigh.

Still making those spicy tomato relish forever since I -had- 20k shards of each.
I do everything, so I don't mind needing fieldcrafts for gathering but it is indeed redundant, they should've required Clear ones or somethings instead...

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summoning bell won't be any different. likely the same drop rate. and when you get your gsm to 100, you botch a lot less. and when you get a 2 stack, yur average becomes much better.

either you spend 30k on a 3star furniture, or you make relish for 5k each, but you need 10, so 50k for one spectacle. now, its 100% to desynth the specs, while the chronometer is 70%, but you spend a lot less time and half the gil almost to do the furniture. specs are good though if you need master craft. i do a mix of both.

just get your gsm to 100 you will get a lot more F3's, because you will botch less. I've done like 30 chronometers so far since hitting 100. i botched like 4 and got 6 f3's total. so 1 in 5 chance of a F3, not bad according to my standards.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Yeah no, not even close on my server...I'll even look up exact current prices for you right now:

Carbuncle Chronometer, 4 for sale: Cheapest 136,999>197,000
Carbuncle Armchair, 8 4 sale: Cheapest 178,000>200,000
Carbuncle Round Table, 6 for sale: Cheapest 198,000>272,999 with an outlier of 999,999
Carbuncle Desk, 6 for sale: Cheapest 286,000>400,000
Summoning Bell, 3 for sale: Cheapest 108,941>199,000
Carbuncle Chair (since it is the cheaper mat cost one), 4 for sale 120,000>212,000

The crafted rubies: start at 59,000 on our server
The emery if you can craft the ruby yourself:20K and up

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You actually have to craft these items yourself to keep costs reasonable. I thought that was a given. Chronometers cost me 15-20k because all I'm buying is emery. The bottleneck is the mass quantity of rosegold nuggets required, however if you bought these as well you'd be looking around 30k cost per.