It is possible to have another type of end-game raid that is not locked?

I can understand pro and con of having content locked so that players would develop their skills together with their group of static and no any helping hands from outside.

However, I think that this is starting to get boring, as you are semi-forced to play the only available end-game content with the same old face over and over. You have many more friends than that but the content you could play with them are pure worthless easy-content that not actually worth much to do.

Since there are many pro and con for having end-game content as locked and not locked. Why not release both type of end-game content? One that is locked and one that is not locked either on the same major patch or different major patch such as 2.2 (lock one), 2.3 (not lock one), 2.4 (lock one), 2.5 (not lock one).


The current idea of SE design is 2.2 (lock + hardcore), 2.3 (not lock + casual), 2.4 (lock hardcore), 2.5 (not lock + casual). Which I believe that there aren't any "not lock + hardcore" at all. This is the missing element!

Will they ever bring any End-game content that isn't locked?
(Please do not speak on Ramuh, most end-game players not interest to it. We won it once and then never touch it again or barely. Level 100 will not bring much intensive play to us when we already have all 110s. )

I remember that in 1.0 days, AV and CC were actually pretty good end-game raid design and they are not locked. Could they do implement something like that again so that end-game players could overlap and play freely between cross-static? Of course, the reward should be on pair with the locked one if they were to be released after, else, it is going to be just vanity.

To summarize this up:
I think we should have another kind of content that is equally hard to Coil, but "not lock". So that end-game players can enjoy free party system with challenge and worthwhile content.

I was talking about this with a FC mate earlier. I know Yoshida has stated that from a developer's standpoint content that has a weekly (or whatever duration) lockout can give good rewards with more regularity (eg. Coil turns give an entirely regular quantity and quality of gear), but without a lockout you have to have low drop rates to balance the amount of time it takes players to collect everything they might want. I understand that perfectly, but I don't understand why it should have to be one or the other.

I'd personally like something Dynamis-esque, but any number of flavors would do. Just something that isn't locked (or at least not with such a long duration. Maybe some daily locked content would do). To preserve the sort of balance they're going for I understand that the drop rates would have to be low. I'd be fine with content that netted 1-3 pieces of gear to split between 24 people (or more). It just needs to be the same tier as Coil (or similar 8 man raid if they're still doing that), and as such it should be difficult content. This game is sorely lacking variety, but not for lack of content. There are tons of dungeons and such, but they may as well all be the same.

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I think we should have another kind of content that is equally hard to Coil, but "not lock". So that end-game players can enjoy free party system with challenge and worthwhile content.

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If it has the same rewards as locked content, people will say that the locked content isn't worth it. If it doesn't, people will say that the non locked content isn't worth it (like you just did with Ramuh).

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as the first reply person said. They could balance it with 2 systems :
1. The stat of that gear could be different alternative of the same level so that players want to do both.
2. The drop rate will have to be low. Similar to FFXI or 1.0 content where there weren't any lock out.

Basically, you could run Coil with your static, and farm something else with other friends in non-lock out raid.

Or, simply release them on different patch, lock out one first patch, and no-lock one second patch as my first suggestion. This way end-game players were already have lot of their gear from lock out 3 months, and can still farm alternative choice of gear in another patch. Not just only vanity gear with low level and easy content such as now.

Primals/CT/dungeons essentially fill this gap, though I wish dungeon reward were just a bit greater. If they made a raid without lockouts raids the loot would have to be garbage in order to maintain the significance of raids with lockouts thus most likely making it not be worth doing.

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The problem is that those CT, primal don't fill gap for end-game content at all. I don't know if dev think of them as end-game or not, but real end-game players feel toward them as "mid tier". As I mention in the first post. Those content are barely getting any attention toward end-game community other than people who want vanity.

-1. they aren't hard, aren't challenge enough that give you the feeling of wanting to conquer it.
-2. they give lower level gear than what you already wear, so the intensive is low.

What I want is "something very hard" that doesn't limited to "static party" and any "restriction lock"
Simply "Something challenge to play with other different friends with no lock-out limitation"
They did it cool with 1.0. They need to bring this back. Currently this game lack this "repeatable end-game" element. Nothing fill this gap yet.


Don't misunderstand thought, I do not want CT or Primal to be harder. They are good as it is on their own "mid tier".
Now, what I want is end-game tier content that is on pair with Coil, "without lock".

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Originally Posted by Moqi

If it has the same rewards as locked content, people will say that the locked content isn't worth it. If it doesn't, people will say that the non locked content isn't worth it (like you just did with Ramuh).

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Not true. The locked and non locked content would obviously have different drop rates for the same gear (unlocked content most likely being much lower). Furthermore, more likely than not, people will end up doing both of them to try to get whatever gear they are after faster (rng says hi). It would be even better if the non locked dungeons offered items of the same ilvl but different stats in order to add variety but given the severe lack in the variety of stat attributes this game has I can see why that's never gonna happen (unless they add more in the future).

Weren't people bitching becasue Coil drops had the same ilvls as myth gear then and are bitching now because sands/oils are obtainable with easier content now though?

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Originally Posted by Nutz

I understand that perfectly, but I don't understand why it should have to be one or the other.

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The developers most likely want to keep progression at a reasonable pace so that people don't blow through the content in a matter of weeks (or even days) and then have absolutely nothing to do until the next update.

Coil ends in 2.4 they said, and Crystal Tower in 2.5. So it'll be interesting to see what comes next

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The developers most likely want to keep progression at a reasonable pace so that people don't blow through the content in a matter of weeks (or even days) and then have absolutely nothing to do until the next update.

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Many way to counter against gear progression too fast. :
1. This addition Raid could be very hard and have very low drop rate, which was proven in 1.0 that it will take months for hardcore players to gear up from it.
2. This Raid could be released at 3 months after locked dungeon. So they don't have to care gear progression anymore at this state. Similar to how they don't care with excessive unlimited sand of time that drop from Mob Hunt now.
3. Both 1. and 2. together. If they care. Have this released after, and also have low drop rate. End-game players gonna do it anyway, just like 1.0 that they farmed it for many months consistently on their own pace. (which is good thing).

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Weren't people bitching becasue Coil drops had the same ilvls as myth gear then and are bitching now because sands/oils are obtainable with easier content now though?

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The different is that you get equal level of gear from mindless grinding content instead of challenge & worthy content that is why players were complaining. My suggestion here is to have them drop equal level item from this free end-game Raid, then allow players to farm them at their own pace.

I would suggest in order to bypass the weekly lockout of content like SCoB, one have to at least one player in the party that has not cleared the content, but only those who has not got drop that week could loot (like CT). This way, will allow player to get help from experienced player after participating in the practice party quite some time, and at the same time, if someone want to get a second chance to loot, one have to help out those haven't cleared the content yet. I don't think it would be abused by placing a dummy member in the party as the present lockout content requires all party member to be competent to complete confidently.

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Originally Posted by Alise

What I want is "something very hard" that doesn't limited to "static party" and any "restriction lock"
Simply "Something challenge to play with other different friends with no lock-out limitation"

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The Savage Coil is a bit wat you want. Hard, repeateble, no lock, a challenge.

The difficult part is making an unlocked difficult raid content like the one you want that people will take the effort to do, and that does not give too much loot so that people that play a lot don't get everything too soon. If it does not give enough loot it is likely people wouldn't want to take the effort. It might be they introduce some content like this in the future, a non-locked Coil with a very low drop rate. It may be discouraging to beat a difficult instance and have nobody in the group get any loot, though, and only from time to time somebody gets a piece of good gear.

I think it would be great if they limited the drop just like in ST, but to particular class you are rolling on. This way we would have more people running end-game content with progression on all jobs they play, while at the same time gaining experience and taking advantage of the class system in FFXIV :)

Yeah I think different classes should have separate lock outs of at least the separate roles so you could do the content on a Tank,healer and DPS in one week.

I don't want to level another character just to get another lock out it is very time consuming

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Coil ends in 2.4 they said, and Crystal Tower in 2.5. So it'll be interesting to see what comes next

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From what I understand they were referring to the lore aspect of it not the systems. As in the next raid to fill the coil gap will still be locked out it just won't be set in the binding coil, totally new lore. If they unlocked everything it would ultimately break the endgame and cause massive sub loss.