Design Flaws with Atma, let me count the ways

1. Does not reward based on any sort of skill. Most Fates are simply 2 or 3 shoting low level mobs, or spamming AoE's.

2. Does not reward based on time invested. Any player selected could be done with quest in under 10 hours as easily as it could take them 100 hours.

3. Promotes negative game play - The most efficient way to grind Atma is to tag a fate, and leave, so long as you are semi-confident others will complete it. Meaning you get max % chance by maximizing leeching from other players. (This to me, is the most embarrassing flaw in my opinion and the one they should be most ashamed of).

4. System is far to fast for a select few players. I can only assume as experienced Game designers they had a set amount of "Time Invested" as the gating mechanic. For a select few this "Time Invested" is practically negated by luck. So these individuals are basically skipping this step of the quest chain.

5. Renders GC Seals mute. There's no built in integral Grand Company Seal dump... You just get more and more and there's nothing to do with them but buy more and more crafting mats. How many stacks of GC craft mats does one person need?

6. Force's High levels to basically Harass low level players who are actually leveling in the zones. When I was leveling I rarely needed help solo'ing any fate except a few, and its not like I needed those more difficult fates in any shape or form to progress. But what was pissing me off is High Level fate groups steam rolling past me on chocobo's and finishing the fate I had to walk to, before I could even participate.

Must be a casual player

Why do people think they're forced to do anything in this game? If you don't like the way it works, don't do it.

Quote:

---

Today, 05:30 PMZhycranaDranix
Must be a casual player

---

If only casuals are gifted with the ability to point out blatant design blunders, then yep I R Casual.

Quote:

---

Today, 07:18 PMAlexPayne
Why do people think they're forced to do anything in this game? If you don't like the way it works, don't do it.

---

I have stopped Atma grinding, and listed 6 reasons why.

More trolls plz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexPayne

Why do people think they're forced to do anything in this game? If you don't like the way it works, don't do it.

---

Why do people think that just because we aren't forced to do all the content in the game we aren't allowed to express our opinions on the content in this game?

There is faaaar too much sodium in this thread already...:P

While i agree the grind is..less than fun. The moment you get the notification that you got an Atma..that does feel wonderful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexPayne

Why do people think they're forced to do anything in this game? If you don't like the way it works, don't do it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexPayne

So you just wanted to make sure to come on here and complain, so everyone knows you're crying. Good, congrats, now we know. I'm sure someone will feel sorry for you, somewhere down the line.

---

Super unhealthy attitude. Would you rather the large number people who are displeased with SE's actions just quit the game? This isn't stellar time for MMOs, unlike ten or so years ago. There are a lot more options out there. If you remotely care about the game you should want people to provide feedback. People are extremely upset about this trash "content" and rightly so... they paid SE to make it! I personally know over a dozen people who unsubscribed... non-casual players who are just conscienscious consumers and won't stand for a crap product. This content is so extremely horrific that a big part of me believes that SE is intentionally trying to force themselves into a F2P position with this game. More profit:effort...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaarlask

While i agree the grind is..less than fun. The moment you get the notification that you got an Atma..that does feel wonderful.

---

The first Atma I ever got I felt like "yaaaayyy" but for every drop after that I felt terrible. I can understand that some people get that sense of euphoria though and that is actually my primary concern with this stuff... They made it a drug and they want you to be addicted enough to grind for that high. In FFXI, SE was no longer allowed to do the MogLottery on NA servers because it was considered gambling. It was a literal lottery where you bot virtual lottery tickets and you could win prizes that included the rarest and hardest to get items in the entire game, including extreme sums of gil. The only difference with Atma is that instead of buying lottery tickets you're pulling the handle on a slot machine... each FATE is a spin and addictive personalities run the risk of getting sucked right in. I watched a person irl spend nearly every waking moment farming ATMA for two weeks straight... It isn't just bad content, it's immoral content that teaches people that if you gamble forever you'll eventually win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaarlask

While i agree the grind is..less than fun. The moment you get the notification that you got an Atma..that does feel wonderful.

---

Not for everyone. I have a friend who runs dailies with me, we do sahagin dailies every day, and we do every single fate in the area as they pop. We've been doing it for a month or so, now. She has 5 crab atmas, now, I have zero. She feels terrible every time one of them drops, and I've become slightly bitter about it.

Another example. I grinded in north shroud for 2 hours last weekend to get my atma, finally got it. My SO walked into the zone that night, did one FATE and got a drop. The same thing happened for their crab atma, which they got after farming 3 FATEs with us when we tried to grind the area last month.

I've determined that I do have terrible luck in regards to this system, but that isn't an excuse for bad design - actually, it's a perfect example of it. One person can put in literally hours, days, weeks of work and get nothing, while another can spend five minutes in the zone and get the drop. There's not even any kind of challenge involved, so the drops don't feel rewarding at all (the ones that I've had drop only made me happy because I could finally leave the damn zone, I felt no sense of accomplishment).

tbh I'm fine with low drop rates on items. I played XI for years, it had abysmal drop rates in some cases. The thing was that with so many drops in XI they would AT LEAST drop into the loot pool to be lotted on. If nothing else I'd like it if the atmas were not untradeable. It would create a viable market for the people who have gil and don't have the time to grind FATEs (or would rather be doing something, y'know, fun?), and give those lucky few who get 5 atmas during their dailies a source of income. Right now one person can go months without getting a single atma (or literally never get one at all, since it's a dice roll), which is kind of silly considering that alternatives to the relic are getting easier to obtain than the atma weapon alone, not including animus.

My last point - Yoshida himself pledges that the game is supposed to be about fun more than anything (it's one of their four(?) core pillars), but so many people (even those defending it) describe atma farming as work. You have to work for this super special item because "that's MMOs!". It doesn't have to be that way. Items can still be gated, still be difficult to obtain, and not be tedious work - and if the game is about fun then SE should be making strives to correct, and avoid implementing content that fosters bitter players. ATMA can still be gated, still be difficult to obtain, but at least make it fun to do, and not grindy busy "work".

https://warosu.org/data/tg/img/0259/...3361246988.jpg


Stop beating the dead horse. If you can't stand RNG, don't play MMOs. RNG won't reward you or your skill. RNG isn't fair. RNG won't give you your loot out of pity for your 200+ hours farming.

RNG doesn't give a crap about you. Deal with it or quit atma quest.


(edit : in case you haven't noticed, you are 4 month late to the "discussion" about atmas. Next time, do a search instead of posting a pointless thread)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

snip

---

Oh you're right, if people don't like content they should just shut up quit the game instead of talking about it.

That's a wonderful attitude, why haven't they made you a community rep, yet? ┐(￣ヮ￣)┌

I recently started playing and I gotta say that the ATMA grind probably is one of the worst designed features I have ever seen in a game. When a person can finish it in a matter of hours, while others have to bother for multiple weeks that shows pretty well how flawed the system is. I dont have a problem with what I am currently working on: Animus grind. Its actually the opposite. This is how a grind should be designed. But the ATMA grind simply is a lazy excuse for content, nothing else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nyyyyy

I recently started playing and I gotta say that the ATMA grind probably is one of the worst designed features I have ever seen in a game. When a person can finish it in a matter of hours, while others have to bother for multiple weeks that shows pretty well how flawed the system is. I dont have a problem with what I am currently working on: Animus grind. Its actually the opposite. This is how a grind should be designed. But the ATMA grind simply is a lazy excuse for content, nothing else.

---

I share this opinion. My gf is on the Novus portion and Animus/Novus are both perfectly acceptable, well thought out, and interesting... especially in comparison to Atma. I hold the belief that current relic progression was only ever supposed to consist of the Animus/Novus portion but that an idea-killer producer, or someone up the development chain, demanded the devs add "content" to slow players down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CodeCass

There is faaaar too much sodium in this thread already...:P

---

I believe the correct term is sodium chloride :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Oh you're right, if people don't like content they should just shut up quit the game instead of talking about it.

That's a wonderful attitude, why haven't they made you a community rep, yet? ┐(￣ヮ￣)┌

---

Oh you're right, opening a new subject month after the problem has been debated ins and outs without doing the minimum research to know it's useless makes perfect sense. Let me open a new thread about the lag after every patch because every idiot rushes in as soon as servers go live.

Oh the subject goes on since september ? I don't care I want ma thread !!

See where I'm going ? Instead of opening new useless threads, go necro the old threads. Still pointless as everything has already been said but if it pleases you... can't help it.

Let's be honest, Atma grind is here because the community at large BEGGED for a gameplay element to be like FFXI. It's that simple, people wanted grind for something, they got it. Now people complain. Quite frankly, they release an alternative every few patches to make it fair. If you want to grind, you grind, if you don't want to grind, there's an option for you too! Don't like killing EX primals to get high level weapons? run ST! solution had!
Don't like grinding atmas to get a weapon that you keep advancing and changing and altering? do other content. It's not being locked out of content, it's being settled that quite frankly, not every player will be able to complete every single quest or line, some gear is only for people willing to dedicate the time or that get lucky. This thread is old, worn out, past its prime and this is not changing. Drop it already people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cassandaria

Drop it already people.

---

They are... in that they've outright quit the game. It's easy to dismiss peoples' compaints but it isn't exactly a healthy approach. The reason these threads keep popping up is because some people are very disappointed in what they've been paying for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

The reason these threads keep popping up is because some people are very disappointed in what they've been paying for.

---

Indeed, because it is crucial that every aspect of the game must be appealing to every niche player in the game because that's what happens in reality.

Oh, wait... Scratch that, reverse it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

Indeed, because it is crucial that every aspect of the game must be appealing to every niche player in the game because that's what happens in reality.

Oh, wait... Scratch that, reverse it.

---

Yeah! Imagine people providing feedback for the parts of the game they most care about, that hold their primary interest, or in which they see the most problems... how outlandish would that be!? If only, instead of providing warranted feedback, everyone would just abstain from playing the parts of the game they... y'know... got the game for in the first place! Conscientiousness be damned!

Pithiness aside, Relic quests have been a fundamental concept in FF Online for over a decade. It is not "niche." It is core. The contrary and myopic argument that there are alternative weapons in FFXIV right now does not address the lack of quality in the anti-content we've received nor does it speak to the overall content imbalance the game is currently experiencing. Furthermore, while it does not describe the vast majority of players with concerns about Atma, it has been argued that the Atma "content" was intended for casuals. While I would argue this is certainly not the case, that would not be considered a "niche" group.

Atma rates are low because they don't want a ton of people to have Animus & Novus weapons.

If getting Atma was like getting Alexandrite, which is damn-near guaranteed with dailys & maps, how many people would have an Animus? Answer: EVERYONE.

Everyone would have one. There would be no need to do Primals for weapons. There would be no need for weathered weapons. There would be no need to get High Allagan weapons. EVERYONE would have Animus, then Novus weapons.

It would make ilvl 100 weapons the basic standard that everyone has and cause other weapons to be obsolete.

So they put Relic+1 weapons behind the frustrating, infuriating RNG of Atma. It wasn't a mistake. They knew what they were doing. They knew that most people would be turned off and give up, moving on to other options. This is why they refuse to raise the Atma drop rate. Because if they do then the Relic+1 weapons would become too common.

Grinding for Atma was one of the most sucky experiences I've had in FFXIV. And they're not going to change it. As weird as it sounds, it isn't SUPPOSED to be fun, because if it was fun then everyone would do it for however long it takes and eventually get their Relic+1! They don't want EVERYONE to have a Relic+1. They want it to be rare and special.

Something isn't special when everyone has it.

OP, you're like 5 months too late here. The Atma complaint train has come and gone. Either do it, or you don't. The end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

They are... in that they've outright quit the game. It's easy to dismiss peoples' compaints but it isn't exactly a healthy approach. The reason these threads keep popping up is because some people are very disappointed in what they've been paying for.

---

If they quit, then they quit. That's their choice. As a game developer, you don't bend over backwards and constantly change the rules of every little thing everywhere because someone doesn't like a mechanic. Because then you'll find yourself constantly changing it because once you change it for that one player, there will be another player who wants it the way it was. By caving in for one player, all the other players will expect the same treatment. Not good.

There was a time where the game developer created the game, and the player dealt with it.

Today, Game developers make a game, and the players complain until the developers change it for them. I don't believe that's how it should be.


Yoshi-P already dealt with this mentality. He said he's doing his best to create a game that appeals to the masses, but he knows it won't appeal to everyone. Because you can't make EVERYONE happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ringabell

Atma rates are low because they don't want a ton of people to have Animus & Novus weapons.

---

Yet they're having issues with enough people having it to satisfy their projections. Additionally, how did the ease of attaining Zenith weapons prior to Atma+ break or unbalance the game in any way? If the game's core concepts were fun and functional before, the only logical defense for your claim that they don't want people to get it now is strictly as an anti-content stall tactic not dissimilar to the sort we became accustomed to a few years ago in XI.

Quote:

---

If getting Atma was like getting Alexandrite, which is damn-near guaranteed with dailys & maps, how many people would have an Animus? Answer: EVERYONE.

Everyone would have one. There would be no need to do Primals for weapons. There would be no need for weathered weapons. There would be no need to get High Allagan weapons. EVERYONE would have Animus, then Novus weapons.

---

I am not a proponent of handing the item out. However, explain how your example is in any way superior to the current model whereby only the extremely lucky or those capable of putting in hundreds of hours are priviliged with weapons that are, at best, tied with or marginally better than BiS yet are fundamental to the lore of the game. How do you rationalize some people getting their Atma set in less than fifty FATEs while others go a thousand without finishing? The very fact that people can get Animus is less than an hour completely shuts down your entire logical approach to your perception of the developers' intent.

Quote:

---

It would make ilvl 100 weapons the basic standard that everyone has and cause other weapons to be obsolete.

---

Again, exactly how i90 weapons were the basic standard before. Game wasn't broken. New players were excited. Things were looking up. Post Atma? At least a dozen in game friends have quit and 5-6 irl friends... and not the grind-squeemish types. It's not the grind. It's that it's bad game design.

Quote:

---

So they put Relic+1 weapons behind the frustrating, infuriating RNG of Atma. It wasn't a mistake. They knew what they were doing. They knew that most people would be turned off and give up, moving on to other options. This is why they refuse to raise the Atma drop rate. Because if they do then the Relic+1 weapons would become too common.

Grinding for Atma was one of the most sucky experiences I've had in FFXIV. And they're not going to change it.

---

Don't delude yourself. This isn't XI. All content in this game is constantly being adjusted (read: nerfed) at a fast enough rate that you can actually assess and optimize the value of your effort. Someone who took 1000 fates to get an Atma will be sadly disappointed if they think Atma won't be severely simplified in the near future.

Quote:

---

As weird as it sounds, it isn't SUPPOSED to be fun, because if it was fun then everyone would do it for however long it takes and eventually get their Relic+1! They don't want EVERYONE to have a Relic+1. They want it to be rare and special.

---

Yet it isn't at all special at present. It's infinitely less fun to obtain than the alternatives and not at all special in its characteristics by comparison. This isn't an XI relic where it's by far BiS. The only thing special about Atma/Animus/Novus is the label that the owner is either very lucky or has an absurd amount of time on their hands. There is no indication of skill involved whatsoever. Conversely, High Allagan is representative of content related achievement.

Quote:

---

Something isn't special when everyone has it.

---

It isn't special if a drunk chimpanzee has the required "skill" to acquire it either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rex

If they quit, then they quit. That's their choice. As a game developer, you don't bend over backwards and constantly change the rules of every little thing everywhere because someone doesn't like a mechanic. Because then you'll find yourself constantly changing it because once you change it for that one player, there will be another player who wants it the way it was. By caving in for one player, all the other players will expect the same treatment. Not good.

---

That got them real far in 1.0, didn't it? This is also in direct contradiction to how some people love to claim this "content" was added to please people begging for XI-style grind tripe. This is not a simple mechanic. This is lore-centric core questline gameplay. All apologists are doing is having this sort of mundane anti-content and lack of quality control spread to other aspects of the game, which we're already seeing happen.

Quote:

---

There was a time where the game developer created the game, and the player dealt with it.

---

Or the company failed brutally.

Quote:

---

Today, Game developers make a game, and the players complain until the developers change it for them. I don't believe that's how it should be.

Yoshi-P already dealt with this mentality. He said he's doing his best to create a game that appeals to the masses, but he knows it won't appeal to everyone. Because you can't make EVERYONE happy.

---

The "masses" do seem so pleased with the game of late. Sarcasm aside, the game doesn't change at its core when they respond to feedback, it is merely quality controlled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rex

OP, you're like 5 months too late here. The Atma complaint train has come and gone. Either do it, or you don't. The end.

---

I'm sure SE appreciates any and all feedback they receive. Just because SE made a decision doesn't it was the best decision to make nor does it mean they will never revisit it. If they never reconsidered their decisions, you wouldn't be playing ARR.

They totally did this on purpose, I imagine if atma was easy to get, or if you got it by doing certain mount of fates in an area? All of you would have that special weapon that you want and imagine how worthless it would become, its like if gold was easy to get as wood, worthless. The cool thing about all this hard work is having the weapon at the end and waving it around showing ppl that hard work does give u something in the end. I know we don’t HAVE to do this but we wanna be ahead of the game cuz by not doing this we are choosing to stay behind while everyone keeps going forward and we don’t wanna stay behind so we HAVE to do this. Atma has been around for the longest time and this is not the first time someone complains about this and it wont be the last, if they didn’t fix it when it came out they r not going to fix it now cuz after all you "fix" something when it doesn’t work and the atma weapon is rare but I know a few ppl who has it so its not unachievable so it does work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hdepaula

They totally did this on purpose, I imagine if atma was easy to get, or if you got it by doing certain mount of fates in an area? All of you would have that special weapon that you want and imagine how worthless it would become, its like if gold was easy to get as wood, worthless. The cool thing about all this hard work is having the weapon at the end and waving it around showing ppl that hard work does give u something in the end. I know we don’t HAVE to do this but we wanna be ahead of the game cuz by not doing this we are choosing to stay behind while everyone keeps going forward and we don’t wanna stay behind so we HAVE to do this. Atma has been around for the longest time and this is not the first time someone complains about this and it wont be the last, if they didn’t fix it when it came out they r not going to fix it now cuz after all you "fix" something when it doesn’t work and the atma weapon is rare but I know a few ppl who has it so its not unachievable so it does work.

---

It isn't at all special at present. This isn't an XI relic where it's by far BiS. The only thing special about Atma/Animus/Novus is the label that the owner is either very lucky or has an absurd amount of time on their hands. There is no indication of skill involved whatsoever. Conversely, High Allagan is representative of content related achievement.

Atma has been around for a few months... not exactly the "longest time," as you put it... all content in XIV in nerfed in order to facilitate player progression. Atma will be no different. Even if they don't "fix" Atma now it will only be a few more months before they completely simplify it into the ground. Welcome to the world of vertical progression gaming a la SE. The only difference with Atma is that the quality of the pre-nerf "content" is horrendous. All players are asking is for them to implement any of a wide range of creative solutions that would fix the problem without (further) hurting content balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hdepaula

snip

---

Hard work? What makes beating your head against FATE farming for Atma hard work? What makes spirit binding over and over until you get the materia you need for Novus hard work? You're doing all this "hard work" for a weapon that is easily outclassed by other weapons that take FAR less effort to get.

LOL nvm then, it could've been worse you know, imagine if Atmas were in dungeons? ppl are now quitting FF14 ARR because of this? is this some kind of Boycott? my friend was like "I know Why I’m not getting anything, its cuz I’m a healer and because this game needs a lot of healers to do shit, they are not giving us anything so we can keep repeating shit to help ppl out, If you notice, its the DPSs that are getting the Atma" I was like "-_- what? just play the game" I think its completely unfair and atma should be easier to get. I work everyday except on the weekends so I leave the Atma search for the weekends, on weekdays I Farm for Lvs, Farm for Allegans and do whatever so I don’t get tired of Atmas and stuff, but I don’t have a single one though lol but whatever, what can we do? its not like they listen to us anyways, we just have to go with the flow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ringabell

Something isn't special when everyone has it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

It isn't special if a drunk chimpanzee has the required "skill" to acquire it either.

---

Who said anything about skill? No, the skill-gated weapon is High Allagan.

The Atma gate is not skill. The gate is the grind that god awful RNG.

I'm not arguing for Atmas. I'm on record saying that farming for Atmas really sucked.

That said, Atmas are behaving exactly as they were intended to behave. You can break down each line of my post and respond with laser precision and well-worded arguments to the contrary, but it wasn't a huge mistake. It was planned. They knew that having an obscenely low drop rate that must be over come 12 times would gate the weapon from the masses.

They aren't stupid.

Neither are they looking at this thread shaking their collective head thinking: "We'd better raise the drop rate to 10% so everyone can get one."

No way.

Again: "ATMA FARMING SUCKS". That is my stance. It wasn't fun. I felt it basically ate into the time that I could've spent doing beneficial things like levelling another job or crafting. I even gave up on it for a while, got a Wave weapon and began farming for a Mirror. Atma sucks. But it also serves the purpose SE intended it to serve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Hard work? What makes beating your head against FATE farming for Atma hard work? What makes spirit binding over and over until you get the materia you need for Novus hard work? You're doing all this "hard work" for a weapon that is easily outclassed by other weapons that take FAR less effort to get.

---

Only outclassed by High Allagan.

...but we'll see how long that lasts. Until the next Relic quest is released, perhaps?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ringabell

But it also serves the purpose SE intended it to serve.

---

While I do appreciate your overall opinion in the matter, I disagree on this point. Most empirically, SE directly came out and said they were pushing back new relic content as a result of not nearly enough players having Atma done yet. Similarly, there were people done within a few hours of the patch and others who have gone hundreds of hours and thousands of FATEs without completion. This second point is an indication of an absence of a clear intent on SEs part, unless their goal was to create a completely inequitable gameplay experience. These directly indicate that it simply isn't working as they intended and it never was but unless their bottom line is shattered, like it was in 1.0, we will not ever hear an apology from SE or any admission that, hey, maybe we coulda done that better guys.

I have never heard a single person in game or irl say anything that wasn't completely negative in regards to Atma. The most thoughts I hear on the matter are that a person is either unsubscribing in response to the bad game design, ignoring the game entirely to enjoy other titles while they wait for it to be fixed, or ignoring the content entirely and hoping SE gives them a reason to stay in FFXIV. When I talk to people who originally planned on getting the game to play with me they have, all of them, changed their minds as a result of Atma. Irl friends, decade long FFXI veterans, who joined because I told them how fun the game was pre-2.2, and who weren't even done Prae yet, quit upon recognizing the direction the game was taking. Sure, we have Atma apologists but no one seems to think it's fun or a good idea whatsoever. I've also noticed a direct correlation between how readily a person defends Atma and how little time their farming required, though you are the exception as you do readily admit that it is completely horrible. At any rate, If SE's goal was to lose revenue than they have succeeded.

Quote:

---

They aren't stupid.

Neither are they looking at this thread shaking their collective head thinking: "We'd better raise the drop rate to 10% so everyone can get one."

---

They're a -little- stupid lately... or at least someone somewhere in the design chain is pushing very very very bad ideas. Similarly to how you described it, Atma is just a stall tactic. Conscientious consumers readily recognize that SE is artificially padding the length of their game. No, they don't want to hand the items out but that doesn't mean there aren't creative solutions. Take i70 DoL tools for example. Fishing RNG grind is virtually identical to Atma with the exception that you get NQ items that you can trade in to an NPC for food that increases your chances at getting the item you actually need. They could have done this with great effect for Atma as it would put a carrot on a stick for gamers and even if they didn't get the drop there would still be discernible transparency; people would know that the mechanic was actually working because, hey, I keep getting NQ Atma drops. The Botanist/Miner routes could have also been employed to great effect. They could have made it so that Atma had a higher drop rate but that it was only obtainable under more specific conditions. They could have made it drop from specific FATEs under certain conditions, which would also satisfy the lore as the quest giver even says almost verbatum that that's how we're supposed to find it.

At best, they want players to ignore this relic step in favour of the other weapon options since they likely plan on gradually making relic the superior option in the near future. This is logical, from a long-term development reward:effort perspective and the inverse of what they did in end-of-days FFXI but the community is extreme toxic to one another and to the developers as a result. A lot of people feel alienated.

I'm not so sure I entirely believe the people who claim to have been fate grinding for hundreds of hours with no luck. Hundreds of hours of grinding does not mean 90 hours of other activities and 10 hours of fates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexPayne

I'm not so sure I entirely believe the people who claim to have been fate grinding for hundreds of hours with no luck. Hundreds of hours of grinding does not mean 90 hours of other activities and 10 hours of fates.

---

There's nothing wrong with skepticism and while I can't speak for everyone I can assure you that it is entirely probable that most or all of the people claiming this on the forums are doing so honestly. My gf plays beside me and she worked at it very aggressively, doing pretty much nothing else in game until she finished, and it took her over 120 hours of FATEs not including any time she spent afk, eating, bio, etc. I play a bit more efficiently than her and I've personally just had a dry spell where I went approx 70-80hrs without having an Atma drop. I'm currently about 100hrs in, total, and only half done my set. I was all but convinced that my character was glitched, which is an other issue: due to lack of transparency and because of how the "content" is delivered there's no way of knowing if you're experiencing a bug

For reference, I am not a grind-squeamish player. When I was buying my FC's house I routinely went Fri-Sat-Sun with literally no sleep to keep retainers permanently stocked and I didn't make a peep about Relic/Mythic progression in XI, even when I did my pre-nerf 10000gillion EP kills to level the weapon up. I am a completionist in general, when it comes to gaming, and no grind in any game I've ever played has offended me to this degree. Members of my FC were working on Atma, at times, with my gf and they self-quoted over 120hrs as well. Knowing them I have no reason to disbelieve them.

In contrast, some people get multiple full sets in less time. Some people finish in less than a few hours. The system is utterly fubar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

I was all but convinced that my character was glitched, which is an other issue: due to lack of transparency and because of how the "content" is delivered there's no way of knowing if you're experiencing a bug

---

When getting no drops after 2 days I had that feel, but then I got a drop and felt relieved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theresa

When getting no drops after 2 days I had that feel, but then I got a drop and felt relieved.

---

I know the feeling, but it was 2 weeks instead of two days. I'm at all of 4 right now, after a bit over 2 months of actively farming. I've had a FC member get THREE FULL SETS of atma in that time. am i angry? no, that's awesome he luck is ungodly, but boy do i wish they were tradeable or something sometimes. Oh Easten Thanalan..I WILL get my atma one day..

I can agree with what your saying, I think the fact is that people want to get the ilvl 110 or whatever, and the gear that any person gets in not equal to what the novues is at.
( yes I do know there are spelling errors) All I am wanting to see is just a little better % than where it is at. Mainly, a 10 or 20% chance. Still it will make you work as a gamer, but it gives increased odds.