Changes to Fates for the newer players

Hello everyone, so as we know F.A.T.E.S were created to make the world feel more lively, and as an alternative to the many ways that people can level; however, now that Square Enix added atmas in order to help out lower level players they ended up destroying the content for low level players because its no longer appealing to them, so I wanted to suggest two simple things that could potentially alleviate this.

1. Make a new Claim system for F.A.T.E.S and similar open world events
   -This is a good fix in my opinion because with a new claim system all experience and loot would be shared between everyone that has joined the fate, and all that it would require is a different color when the mob is claimed. That means that lower level players can benefit from these players zerging the trash monsters without getting as annoyed or angry at them.
   
   
2. Add Green tier gear to F.A.T.E.S as rewards for people leveling.
   -We know that dungeons drop gear, and quests give gear as well, but F.A.T.E.S do not meaning that many if not all of the new players doing F.A.T.E.S are under geared when doing these F.A.T.E.S giving those higher level synced players an advantage.
   
   
3. Allow an alternate way of unlocking our mount license.
   -Currently it does take a lot of time for new players to unlock their mounts, especially if they don't want to do the main scenario before a certain level, so it would be nice if we could purchase our mount license for around 30k or so if we decide to unlock our mount before getting to the proper point in the main scenario.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

2.) Increase the atma drop rate substantially, but make level sync even more potent.
-Reason: The higher level players can destroy most fates in under 2 minutes, so I think it would be reasonable if the level sync made their level even lower to even out the playing field; however, while this is a negative if the atma drop rate is increased substantially I think its a good trade off.

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"Why is no one doing fates here anymore?"
"Because they all get their atma in 10 minutes now. Lol, at the guy who thought giving them one or two less levels in level sync would help."

Giving away atma gets rid of the players helping do fates for new players. If they get their atma quicker they leave the zone quicker. This means less people farming fates meaning it's harder for newbie players to get help doing them. This doesn't support new players at all. It only supports capped players farming atma. Trading a level or two in level sync is not an appropriate trade off either. Were you not around in the days of 2.0 fate grinding where people would literally run around spamming flash, which does no damage, just to get contribution? The level isn't what is important at all. This will just make them tougher to down for everyone.

I do agree with point number 1 though. That EXP would help newer players a lot.

I prefer soloing a Fate than losing more than 75% of my experience gain from them because the higher players want to zerg them.

If I see a newer player doing a fate with me, I /tell them to hit each mob once and I'll finish them off so they get experience. Unless there are 10+ people at which point I try and get my own kill(s) in. Haha!

But I do try and help them out when I can.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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We're not really "helping new players" though, sure there are some FATEs that it's a boss that requires more than just two or three people to kill, in that case, it really DOES help new players. But most of those smaller FATEs where a handful of mobs spawn, huge groups of high lever players get in, dominate the scene, don't let the new player even get a hit, and leave. I've seen new players literally stop in their tracts and leave the fate because they literally cannot do ANYTHING once the atma hungry wolves show up.

I try to let the newer player get the first few hits and then finish it off, that way they get exp. But not everyone does that.

I've witnessed it myself, I've BEEN part of FATEs while grinding for atma where I don't even get a hit because they just roll through. I understand, grinding is a pain and they want to go through the FATE as fast as possible to move on, but that just doesn't help the lower level players. Lower level players are paying for the atma grind. Once a group forms and decides on a zone, the new players are basically in a loss and have to wait for them to leave.

They are level synced, using abilities of the same level. They don't have an upper hand on newer players. Level synced gear isn't even as good as level appropriate Hq gear. I don't know what edge you guys think they have other than numbers. Players only need to tag each enemy once to get credit anyway as someone pointed out above. Giving away atma isn't a solution to your problem. That would only serve to proliferate more Atma weapons at end game, and more people, lured by the promise of easier atma, would flock back to the fates trying for their second or third atma weapons.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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While it is true that our gear isn't amazing, most new players don't have "appropriate HQ gear". Are you seriously telling me that you take the exact same amount of time killing a mob level synced than when you actually were that level and had probably lower level gear? A low level player usually just buys the cheapest gear in the MB for his level, or gets what dungeons drop. We DO have a slight advantage.

But that wasn't the advantage I was talking about. Like I mentioned in my post, the problem isn't the grind itself, it's the HUGE groups of players that form on one zone to grind. Five mobs spawn? Ten or more players are on it. The new player doesn't have a chance most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Aushi

While it is true that our gear isn't amazing, most new players don't have "appropriate HQ gear". Are you seriously telling me that you take the exact same amount of time killing a mob level synced than when you actually were that level and had probably lower level gear? A low level player usually just buys the cheapest gear in the MB for his level, or gets what dungeons drop. We DO have a slight advantage. .

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No, you don't. If Level sync gear is worse than HQ gear, then you are wearing gear of the same quality as those players. You do not have a gear advantage other than perhaps having a few extra accessories for your level. If your excuse is that they won't have level appropriate gear then that doesn't matter. You can't make sweaping changes for players too lazy to keep their gear updated. At some point you have to force players to take some personal responsibility for themselves.

If the problem is the number of players then the argument to give atma quicker is still a poor solution with repercussions not limited simply to killing those fates easier. On those grounds alone this is a poor solution. Better solutions would be to increase mob health a bit more to give players more time to tag in, increase the amount of mobs, change the way contribution is tallied, and I'm sure even more possibilities.

A solution should solve the problem at hand. If the solution changes things outside of the scope of that problem then it is a poor solution. You need to reduce unintended consequences of your changes.

You should also take into account that Yoshi-P has said on multiple occasions that they currently have no intentions to change the atma drop rates. This suggestion was dead on arrival.

At the very least they should make atmas come from high level fates only, while you say the playing field is balanced with level synced that is false because people leveling through fates don't have the most optimal gear for these fates, and in top of that if you are below level 20 you have no mount, so you cannot get to fates as quickly as the higher level players.

In addition to that fates are currently very unfriendly for new players like Aushi said because people go in and literally go in a rampage to end the fate as quickly as possible. Meaning if your leveling you cannot use this as an extra form of leveling because you would have to focus on getting to a fate as soon as it pops. I don't know about you but this sounds unfair because this content was originally made for lower level players not for high level player grinding.

Or they could just move the atmas to higher level zones where new players will have more of their abilities unlocked and potentially better gear from having run low level dungeons. I think the problem has more to do with the fact that low level players are using normal quality equipment while high level players are using entirely high quality equipment. The less of a difference between gear quality, the less problematic things will be.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

and in top of that if you are below level 20 you have no mount, so you cannot get to fates as quickly as the higher level players.

In addition to that fates are currently very unfriendly for new players like Aushi said because people go in and literally go in a rampage to end the fate as quickly as possible. Meaning if your leveling you cannot use this as an extra form of leveling because you would have to focus on getting to a fate as soon as it pops. I don't know about you but this sounds unfair because this content was originally made for lower level players not for high level player grinding.

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Then the solution that is simplest with the fewest extant changes is to give away chocobos at a much earlier level.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Or they could just move the atmas to higher level zones where new players will have more of their abilities unlocked and potentially better gear from having run low level dungeons. I think the problem has more to do with the fact that low level players are using normal quality equipment while high level players are using entirely high quality equipment. The less of a difference between gear quality, the less problematic things will be.

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Before atma the zones were emptying out with nearly no one doing fates at the lower levels. It became extremely difficult to solo certain fates, and solo it you would because you had no help. Your suggestion would bring us right back to that problem atma's were trying to fix. Also, look above about what I said about gear. You aren't outgearing these players. Your "better gear" is as good as gear at their level. Any edge is minor.

It seems to me we have two real problems.

A) Higher level players can get fate to fate easier with mounts.
B) Newer players don't know how to game the fate system.

Solutions. Earlier mounts and a better system to give contribution. This comes back to point 1 the op made. Giving more exp out for those other mobs could help, but the overall exp per mob might need to drop to offset the increase a bit.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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I wasn't agreeing with the higher drop rate, I'm fine with that, making a high level gear "hard" to get is fair (not that it's hard in the first place, just a bit time consuming). I was stating that the grind IS a problem to low level players.

A better solution would be to just make the fates that drop atma higher level fates, in higher level zones, and in the lower levels, only on fates where it's a problem to solo. You HAVE to admit that some fates can be solo'd and some can't. Like a boss with very high HP that may not be killing you, but the HP is going so slow you'll never kill it in the time the fate gives. And then some fates are just a few mobs that die with three hits, in THESE, no atma. And the harder ones, atma. I'm pretty sure after a bit of studying, you can find which fates are easy to solo and which not, and just apply atma to the harder ones in lower levels.

That way people will still be able to solo their fates AND receive help for the harder ones in the low levels.

Plus if the point was to get low players help on fates they couldn't solo, the soution wasn't a good one with atma. Because sure they are getting people in the fates, but they aren't able to participate in the fates at all, they aren't getting any exp because TOO many people came to "help".

The more exp idea is a good one as well.

Made adjustments to my main post.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

[LIST=1][*]Make a new Claim system for F.A.T.E.S and similar open world events
-This is a good fix in my opinion because with a new claim system all experience and loot would be shared between everyone that has joined the fate, and all that it would require is a different color when the mob is claimed. That means that lower level players can benefit from these players zerging the trash monsters without getting as annoyed or angry at them.

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Magic class with aoe gets all the mobs. That sounds fair.

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Originally Posted by Edli

Magic class with aoe gets all the mobs. That sounds fair.

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While it is possible to stand there and spam AOE, it doesn't make sense and it's still very unappealing and boring to players trying to level.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

While it is possible to stand there and spam AOE, it doesn't make sense and it's still very unappealing and boring to players trying to level.

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Unappealing and boring never stopped people from doing it. I mean, this is FATEs, nothing exiting about it in the first place.

It's calmed down a lot since the atma system first came out, but yeah at first.... if that was designed with helping new players in mind then wtf.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

While it is possible to stand there and spam AOE, it doesn't make sense and it's still very unappealing and boring to players trying to level.

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That hasn't stopped countless people from Flashing their way to 50. All jobs aren't created equal with AoE so some jobs would be better off than others with this idea.

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Originally Posted by Aushi

Plus if the point was to get low players help on fates they couldn't solo, the soution wasn't a good one with atma. Because sure they are getting people in the fates, but they aren't able to participate in the fates at all, they aren't getting any exp because TOO many people came to "help".

The more exp idea is a good one as well.

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There is no poblem for new players to be the first at FATEs. The Atma farmers are scattered over all the zone, running from 1 end to another end to try to get many FATEs as possible. New players stand in the area designed for their level. That means if a FATE pop up for their level, they are the first who reach the FATE.

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ATMA designed to help new ppl. someone point me to some evidence pls.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

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ATMA designed to help new ppl. someone point me to some evidence pls.

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It's the reason Atma don't drop in higher level zones (Ex: Coerthas, Northern Thanalan) and instead drop in lower level zones that are largely connected to the city directly. (Ex. Western Thanalan, Eastern Thanalan, Central Shroud, etc) Did you never find that odd? It was deliberately funneling us away from high level zones and to starter zones.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It's the reason Atma don't..... Did you never find that odd? It was deliberately funneling us away from high level zones and to starter zones.

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Still not evidence. All SE could have wanted is to make beginner zones more lively, so the new ppls don't feel left out.

Hell, for all we know we get funnel to beginner zones because the found a crashed UFO and dead Aliens or NWO artifacts, and want to remove them before anyone found out.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

Still not evidence. All SE could have wanted is to make beginner zones more lively, so the new ppls don't feel left out.

Hell, for all we know we get funnel to beginner zones because the found a crashed UFO and dead Aliens or NWO artifacts, and want to remove them before anyone found out.

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It's pretty obvious that's was it was. Not a single zone excluded is directly connected to a city. You can keep calling it coincidence, but the writings obvious on the wall. You shouldn't need someone to say it explicitly.

Then again..
http://i.imgur.com/0heXDtC.jpg

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

I prefer soloing a Fate than losing more than 75% of my experience gain from them because the higher players want to zerg them.

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Step 1. Unequip soulstone
Step 2. damage anything, don't even bother killing it
Step 3. spam Flash like a mad bastard
Step 4. ALL THE XP

;)