Ultima Weapon....more like Ughtima Weapon

I decided to try The Minstrel's Ballad at the start of my long weekend. With a minimum requirement of ilvl 61, he shouldn't be all that hard, what with my group being pretty decked out, right?

Are you sure that's not supposed to be minimum requirements ilvl 81? Because I don't think a way exists for a group made entirely out of ilvl 61 could take it down. My well equipped group had him down to about 25%, had the 20% Echo buff, and we hit the 10 minute mark so we all died.

Please tell me that, since it's a pre-req for something in 2.3, that he may be nerfed a bit? The menders are making a fortune off me, and all of my groups have pretty much said the same thing.

There is a way, the same way people used when they first cleared it. From what I've read that battle requires everyone to follow a strategy flawlessly, and even use tank LB3 at certain point.

I'm aware of the strategy. I make sure others know the strategy. My largest amount of defeats just came from his enrage mode.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

I'm aware of the strategy. I make sure others know the strategy. My largest amount of defeats just came from his enrage mode.

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If your group is as geared as you feel they are, you should never hit enrage unless you're still learning mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

I'm aware of the strategy. I make sure others know the strategy. My largest amount of defeats just came from his enrage mode.

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How many people needed to be raised? I just did it over the weekend with a friend as my back-up healer (and another as a bard which basically got us the kill). We raised 3 DD's back to back off swiftcast cooldowns the entire second half of the fight (I think it was 9 raises total) and killed him 19 seconds before the cast completed. I can't imagine it's that tight of an enrage for a full i70 group that doesn't die.

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Originally Posted by ispano

If your group is as geared as you feel they are, you should never hit enrage unless you're still learning mechanics.

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I'm sure some may be. I guess I'm mostly complaining since I wasted so much time on it. :(

It's a very complicated fight and I hope you win it soon. If he goes enraged it might be that too many people are dying in your parties.
The problem like always is those orb links...have to run at them as a group (and second tank can help).

I healed it a few weeks ago with not too many problems ...and I don't even play heals. I would suggest taking a good look at the quality of the players you were grouped with. If people are constantly dying, or not pushing out good DPS numbers then it most likely has something to do with the group. It's a really easy fight IIRC.

I don't want to sound like an elitist or anything, but there is only 2 reasons possible for you not completing it. Could be one of them, or both...

1.) Players keep dying

2.) The dps isn't doing a very good job pumping out damage

It's as simple as that. If the dps dies a lot, the overall dps will obviously go down. If nobody, or just 1 or 2 is dying, then they simply aren't playing their job very well.

That's sadly how it is in this game...

If your DPS are overgeared and you're still hitting enrage, they're either dying or using bad rotations. The mistakes I see happen most often are people (still) get hit by and die to Ifrit charges and don't stack for bombs. If the whole group is at minimum ilvl, stacking properly for bombs is the most important part of the fight.

Guess it's probably me then. I can avoid nearly anything, but all of my groups have had me in common. Guess I'll give up.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Guess it's probably me then. I can avoid nearly anything, but all of my groups have had me in common. Guess I'll give up.

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Don't give up -_-
It took me 2 or 3 days to win..............

I died at least 15 times

I know I wasn't the problem, like you know you aren't the problem. It's just that to get 8 people to not die is really hard.
We're both in Cactuar, i'll try to add you later :)

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Originally Posted by Alukah

There is a way, the same way people used when they first cleared it. From what I've read that battle requires everyone to follow a strategy flawlessly, and even use tank LB3 at certain point.

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Nobody cleared it at 61. When the fight was introduced, most people were 80> with close to full myth.

Took some first timers through it myself this weekend. We were rather decked out, and managed to kill it with a full 25% echo (the first timers went in blind). I think the difficulty is fine as it is. Keep at it, you'll win eventually.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Guess it's probably me then. I can avoid nearly anything, but all of my groups have had me in common. Guess I'll give up.

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It could be you, but it could just as easily not be you. Keep in mind this is a team game; one player is not going to put out enough DPS to make up for three others. If you're running through Duty Finder, then - at the risk of sounding "elitist" - there are a lot of bad players out there. DRGs that stay only on rear and use full thrust combo only, BLMs that use only Fire I, BRDs that don't keep full uptime on buffs/DoTs, etc.

My personal advice: visit the DPS forum, see if you're performing the "optimal" rotations, make a PF group and ask for help, and keep trying, because if Ultima frustrates you, you'll want to uninstall when you get to Titan EX.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Nobody cleared it at 61. When the fight was introduced, most people were 80> with close to full myth.

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Uhm I never mentioned gear.

(I know OP did but my reply was pointing out the strategy needed)

IF you are dieing to the enrage mode it means your DDS (DPS) are just doing something really wrong. With 20% echo and a decent weapon they should be way above the required dmg to do the fight. At Ilvl 61 it might be hard, but Ilvl 80 was enough to beat twintania pre-echo. So the dds need to figure out what is up. Are they maximizing thier dmg, are using the correct combo rotation. are the blms using scathe as they run away. Are the healers throwing dots when they are not healing?

Them nerfing ultima will do nothing for people. Yea it gets them past Ultima, but the next phase of the game without echo will just wipe the floor with that group.

It is foolish that the devs refuse to allow parsers, but the problem is your dds. They need to try to find a way to increase dmg drastically, this is parsers main function. Without legally being able to use them.. it is harder to a dps problem but it is still required.

Fight is fine as it is. People just need to fix the rotation problems.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Nobody cleared it at 61. When the fight was introduced, most people were 80> with close to full myth.

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I have cleared it with everyone around 70, back when Ultima was new... The way we handled it, I'm sure we could've done it with all 61 too. Haven't tried it, and it might be very hard, but the minimum ilvl is just that, the "minimum" requirement, it doesn't mean it will be easy...

Other common cause of failure is tanks faceplanting multiple times to defractive laser (or w/e the big pewpew is called) if their gear isn't very good. The part of the fight with the bits along the outside is a good time for a tank to die to it if they're not using the right CDs since you'll have ships dropping, bits pewpewing, and Ultima smacking you upside the head (Hallowed was always nice at that point if your gear wasn't so hot!)

SE does tend to low ball the ilvls though.. a tank in ilvl61 was more likely to come out ground meat at the other end of the fight. ^^;;

Not sure if mentioned but minstrel ballad Ultima only needs to be cleared to unlock bcob savage. Pretty sure when things say "ultimate weapon" pre req they referring to last story fight against Ultima. Could be wrong... Hard to fact check on this phone

This fight has become a pain in the **s lately....I tryed to DF it for fun a couple days ago and I got destroyed, then a couple days later i said "I can't believe he killed me, payback time" and got destroyed again.

Both times, same problem: the silent treatment from ppl in the DF.
You ask if everyone knows the fight? no answer. Ask the tanks if they know they have to switch tanks, no answer. You explain how to handle orbs, no answer....
On top of that, everyone magically forget what plumes, WotL, eruption do and how they work...

The point is, it's not a walk through the park, I guess the "hard" next to the name trick ppl and ht efight it's prolly harder than Titan HM.

The minimum ilevel is for players who are experts in the fights and know every mechanic and how to handle them.

It's a pretty easy fight with very obvious pasterns.

For context, I was able to clear it when the fight was released at i70. I remember because I was pining for the ultima accessories due to the fact that they were i80.

Regardless, grab some people from your FC who have cleared it and are capable of making it through and you should be fine. Anyone kitted out in i90-i110 will destroy the guy no problem.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

It's a pretty easy fight with very obvious pasterns.

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Yup. In and out, out and in, in and out, out and in.

The only really tricky parts are the Ifrit charges (It's easy in the chaos of the fight to just not see him) and successfully smashing your face into balls. Especially the third set (Which is usually handled by the tank popping LB3 and everyone running screaming and hoping the pieces can be picked up afterwards)

That said, he's basically like a step between Hard Mode primals and Extreme primals. I'd actually say he's probably harder than Garuda EX (unless you're a tank), despite the fact that people often refer to it as Ultima Hard.

Don't let the balls touch.

Sounds like poor dps. Gear won't replace bad rotations.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Please tell me that, since it's a pre-req for something in 2.3, that he may be nerfed a bit?

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Given that the thing it is a prerequisite for is "Savage" mode for the Second Coil, and the other prerequisite is Turn 9, I highly doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

Given that the thing it is a prerequisite for is "Savage" mode for the Second Coil, and the other prerequisite is Turn 9, I highly doubt it.

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Yeah uh, while Ultima's Bane may be nerfed in the future (it's always possible)

If you can't clear Ultima's Bane you have a chicken's chance in a slaughterhouse at getting anywhere in Second Coil (Savage)

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

Given that the thing it is a prerequisite for is "Savage" mode for the Second Coil, and the other prerequisite is Turn 9, I highly doubt it.

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I wasn't aware that it was for a new difficulty mode, short-term memory. I haven't even considered trying the Coil yet.

I know he has his patterns, I've memorized most of them. You're right that part is too easy, it's just been getting bad luck with DF.

This fight is easy if everyone knows their parts to play. I cleared this as a tank in mostly ilevel 70/90 Tank gear. The most important job in this fight I think is the tanks. If you have tanks that cant make the switch well then you're going to have problems.

Next important thing in this fight is the rest of the partys ability to avoid all the avoidable damage and to group up properly for the Bombs ( and have the OT ready to pop LB3 at the end for the last bomb ).

I got lucky and got the Accessory drop on my first time through for my Tank set so I haven't run it too many more times since then, but I remember the fight well.

Where I see most groups crumble is when the four aircrafts come crashing down and the safe spot is in the middle. Lasers are going off a the same time as well. This is a fun fight

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Originally Posted by melflomil

Where I see most groups crumble is when the four aircrafts come crashing down and the safe spot is in the middle. Lasers are going off a the same time as well. This is a fun fight

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My most successful groups have gotten past that. I think the part that mostly kills us is the third set of balls, either because someone that's not a tank tries to LB, there's another reason but I can't quite put my finger on it.

As compared to the group I had before my original post, which made it to 75%...with 15% Echo. That actually marked the first group I ever decided to just take the leaving debuff. I have a lot of patience, but...yeah...

Well, maybe in the coming days I'll have some luck. There has to be good people that haven't done it yet that want that Savage mode!

Like many people have said...if you're hitting enrage it's either the DPS dying too often, the DPS not DPSing enough or both. I find it odd that it's a problem, honestly. I remember doing this with ilvl70 DPS or something just about as low. I even did it once with a DPS down basically the entire fight. We gave up on him and let him stay dead.

I suggest having your DPS research rotations for their classes or check to make sure their internet connections are solid so they are able to dodge things.

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Originally Posted by Elim

Like many people have said...if you're hitting enrage it's either the DPS dying too often, the DPS not DPSing enough or both. I find it odd that it's a problem, honestly. I remember doing this with ilvl70 DPS or something just about as low. I even did it once with a DPS down basically the entire fight. We gave up on him and let him stay dead.

I suggest having your DPS research rotations for their classes or check to make sure their internet connections are solid so they are able to dodge things.

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Not really got that kind of quality control in DF. I could try PF, but I still don't know people with that. And it makes me feel kinda icky setting too strong of a minimum level. That's all me though.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Not really got that kind of quality control in DF. I could try PF, but I still don't know people with that. And it makes me feel kinda icky setting too strong of a minimum level. That's all me though.

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If you were on Gilgamesh I would of helped you out.

Just killed him a few hours ago.

Of all my attempts at killing Ultima, I've never once ran into this issue of it enraging. What usually killed my group was the last set of orbs since only 1 of the non-tanks knew what to do at that point. We almost wiped again on them on our last try, but said non-tank managed to grab the last orb this time.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

If your DPS are overgeared and you're still hitting enrage, they're either dying or using bad rotations. The mistakes I see happen most often are people (still) get hit by and die to Ifrit charges and don't stack for bombs. If the whole group is at minimum ilvl, stacking properly for bombs is the most important part of the fight.

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Or dps may keep focus on dodging and doesn't attack enough lol.
tbh, with echo buff, lv60 can become equal strong to lv 90 in the past, I can not see how enrage would happen unless dps doing real bad on it.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

what you said.

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The closer the group is to the minimum ilv requirement, the more "perfect" they have to be. So yeah, an ilv61 group CAN kill ultima, but they have to be a very good group. The higher ilv your group is, more room for error. But then again, you can be ilv100 (farming soldiery) and still dont know that you need to get the hell out of that flasy red circle under you..... xD