We're starting to get patches that are now offering a lot of content and modifications to the game that are going to be lasting throughout the game's life. Patch 1.18 came out with, evidently, a lack of polish and balance. While I don't doubt that the devs are serious about tweaks and balance, they cannot get everything right just from internal testing.
A public test server allows for a massive amount of people to figure out every way in which to break content, break balance, and find exploits -- that the devs may not have found on their own, and that they might fix before the changes are released to live servers.
Giving this game one or two public test servers would, in my opinion, dramatically improve the quality of future patches.
Please post your thoughts on this.
A public test server is needed now more than ever.
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07-24-2011, 10:33 AMWolfieA public test server is needed now more than ever.
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07-24-2011, 10:36 AMRaim
Only if they are highly selective of who they choose each time the server is opened. As you know, a lot of people playing this game clearly have no knowledge in proper balancing. If you just let anyone join the test server, you would have the vocal minority whining about the Conjurer and Thaumaturge changes, even though they were absolutely necessary.
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07-24-2011, 10:40 AMWolfie
Then we come back to the same problem they have now -- it's not public testing. Public testing on a large scale is what makes public test servers good.
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07-24-2011, 10:44 AMkukurumei
This is the public test server...
There was so little active players, losing all of them is a drop in the bucket compared to how many subscribers they need when they charge. -
07-24-2011, 10:44 AMIleanWolfie for presidentQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
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07-24-2011, 10:46 AMBledBeen saying this since BETA.. +1Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
If SE is going to take anything on these board into account it needs to be this. -
07-24-2011, 10:50 AMDarkoon
No thanks, the community would turn into what WoW is today. Having to watch unreleased content and spoiling everyone who has yet to experience it for themselves is a big turn off. Not having test servers would at least give the community 2-3 days before watching and reading strategy for new content becomes "mandatory".
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07-24-2011, 10:52 AMWolfieI know I joked about that a lot, but if they don't set up a public test server while the game is still... small scale, it's going to be even harder when they do their PS3 release and they need to push polished updates even faster, for a serious retail service.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
And not putting out polished updates now is setting a pretty terrible precedent. They're not going to regain customer trust if patches come out like this. -
07-24-2011, 10:54 AMWolfieThat's a disadvantage, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoon
But I'd personally take that over having poorly tested, glitchy updates. -
07-24-2011, 11:29 AMIleanI'll take that over the crap we get for patches now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoon
Besides the plot is laughable cliched crap. -
07-24-2011, 11:30 AMSeoki
See that's the thing, if there is going to be a public server, please, do whatever you can to only let those who understand the term "Balance" and don't see every change as a "nerf" It's horrible to see these people complain with no knowledge of why these changes have to be done. But yes a test server is needed, but it should be sign up only.
TL;dr- Make it a sign up test server. Only people who get in are those with a brain. -
07-24-2011, 11:31 AMEunys
PTR's do not work. Look at Warcraft not one content patch ever goes smooth. all people do on PTR's is play with things they don't have on live servers or try to get a head start on content so that when it goes live they can blast through it. Plus the biggest problem with PTR's is people do nothing but make useless tickets or forum threads about "OMG you nerfed me" or "I think such and such should be this way or that".
In short players are stupid when it comes to what they really want, also people don't use PTR's for that they are there for just wasting Dev's time reading page after page of trash diverting their attention from matters at hand. -
07-24-2011, 11:32 AMNeptune
It would be a world of a difference.
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07-24-2011, 11:39 AMkukurumeiNo they just think about their own greed, "wouldn't it be great if I have 50% mo hp then every else, wouldn't it be great if this l33t gear drops 100%, etc"Quote:
Originally Posted by Eunys
This is the same thing. -
07-24-2011, 11:40 AMIleana) what do you care how others play?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eunys
b) those opinions you hate so much is exactly what is needed BEFORE a patch hits so they can correct their badly thought amateurish game changes as much and fast and possible instead of having to wait for another of their ridiculous 3 month dev cycles.
c) just because you disagree and call their opinion 'greed' it doesn't make it less valid. It's better to have contradicting feedback from every single player than none at all.
d) they are already listening to us, except they take 3 months to actually do something. -
07-24-2011, 12:07 PMWolfieI'm sorry but this is just plain wrong. Their patches for live servers not going smooth is not related at all to the content of the patches. The role of a PTR/PTS is to test the patch content for bugs, imbalances, and to figure out what tweaks need to be done -- not to figure out what's causing patching live servers to go so poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eunys
The "useless" tickets aren't useless at all, because when they're in such large volume, the devs can notice the trends. Take for example what's happening now with the raids and the 3 favored classes, CON, GLA and ARC. Every class that isn't those would be whining, and rightfully so. Smart developers would notice that trend and realize, "hey, maybe the battles in the raid are too one sided" or "maybe we overdid our nerfs for those other classes."
People are going to whine about balance regardless; it's better if they do it on PTRs so that the balance problems are fixed before the patch goes live and the dev team moves on to the next big thing. -
07-24-2011, 12:19 PMHoly-Mary
Get over it !!! These changes were made because the majority of the players asked for it !
If you are not part of this majority ..then it sux to be you ~
Right now i'm really happy about the Patch, we have finally some "challenge" , a little bit of strategy and Group party are now the BEST way to win fast SP.
That is everything i asked for ....and guess what..i was not the only one !! -
07-24-2011, 12:21 PMWolfieWhat does this have to do with anything? I wasn't complaining that I don't like X change, I'm saying that content should be polished before it hits the live servers. And it clearly isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy-Mary
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07-24-2011, 12:25 PMHoly-MaryEeew sorry wrong thread , just noticed O_OQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
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07-24-2011, 12:46 PMJynx
Public test servers are redundant and useless for following reasons.
- Every server is a test server right now
- People will complain about lack of polish no matter the state of testing
- changes to game code on a test server don't always reflect the same in full release
- Some people like to be the first to make a good strategy and be rewarded. Not play it on the public test realm until you have it down to a science for the public release
- People hate change and this wont stop complaints.
- This wont help developers "Balance" anything any faster than they are now
- Other reasons I could go on forever.
Hell I'd rather play content with a few bugs than have it held back from me so people can whine about how easy "_____" Content is or how badly nerfed "____" Job was. Before I even get a chance to test the changes myself.
Just because WoW does it, doesn't mean it's a great idea. -
07-24-2011, 12:49 PMSonic_the_Hedgehog
Didn't Yoshi-P say they were going to have a PTS after they finish revamping the game?
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07-24-2011, 01:13 PMsruon
The amount of people that are against PTS is astounding, the benefits of having one far outweighs the drawbacks.
FFXI is hardly a good reference for those things. -
07-24-2011, 01:25 PMWolfieI posted my thoughts on this earlier. It's poor practice to treat servers now like they're test realms, because they're trying to regain customer trust and because the longer they wait to add a PTS, the harder it will get. When they go for serious retail service (if they haven't already), they're going to be hard pressed to find the time to set up a PTS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
Yes. But some of those complaints are actually valid, and if they can make it so that a patch gets released on live servers with more polish than not, it would be stupid to release it unpolished.Quote:
[*]People will complain about lack of polish no matter the state of testing
What? This makes no sense at all. The point of a PTS is that it's identical to a live server, so that people can test how it would be on live servers. Programming code doesn't just magically do something different if you move it between machines -- unless of course one machine simply cannot execute a line of code. And if that's the case, the program crashes.Quote:
[*]changes to game code on a test server don't always reflect the same in full release
But a PTS would be identical to a live server in terms of hardware and software.
That is a disadvantage, kind of. But let me ask you this: why is it that only a PTS would ruin that experience? People will get it down to a science on live realms regardless. Is it that huge if they get it done a few weeks ahead of time?Quote:
[*]Some people like to be the first to make a good strategy and be rewarded. Not play it on the public test realm until you have it down to a science for the public release
What if you, specifically, don't partake in the content on the PTS? Does it cheapen it for you still? If yes, does content get cheapened for you if someone figures out the strategy to a T on live servers before you? If no, why does that not bother you, but it would if they got it on a PTS?
This is no different than a beta test. Do you not beta test games? Do games become cheaper for you if some people beta test them?
Of course not. But it will still help bring more polish to patches. If you're going to nerf a class, they're going to whine regardless. But with a PTS, you might catch some bugs in your nerf, or might realize that you overdid it, and fix it before it hits live servers and you have to wait for the next patch cycle to fix it.Quote:
[*]People hate change and this wont stop complaints.
Debatable. It might not help them do it faster, but it will help them find some things that they would not be able to find on their own, or see things from a different perspective.Quote:
[*]This wont help developers "Balance" anything any faster than they are now
Please do, I want people to realize what kinds of benefits and disadvantages this system would have. I'm going to analyze whatever it is people post thoroughly.Quote:
[*]Other reasons I could go on forever.
But it's PUBLIC. Everyone can participate, or refuse to participate. There is no "select playerbase" that gets to see this before everyone else. There is no exclusivity here.Quote:
Public test realms are in my opinion nothing but giant spoilers, they serve no purpose whatsoever other than to let a select peice of the population in on content others don't get to experience for a few more weeks.
Hell I'd rather play content with a few bugs than have it held back from me so people can whine about how easy "_____" Content is or how badly nerfed "____" Job was. Before I even get a chance to test the changes myself.
Just because WoW does it, doesn't mean it's a great idea.
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07-24-2011, 01:30 PMPhysicyou miss the point of test servers, its not to create a perfecrly polished patch with no bugs, its to catch some of the bugs, and most importantly to test balances and exploits. Only through people playing will they really see what is up, internal testing is never enough. Also a test server you can break it, reset it, alter it, make buggy as hell, experiment with new things BEFORE they go into the official game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
I have seen games with good test servers, and they tend to be able to create more balanced content. Adding the test server after they figure out how to fix the game doesnt serve as much purpose.
Now if they actually treated this as a test server and did rapid updates and tried stuff and got feedback, i would say its cool, but they dont, they spend months internally testing and come out with balance issues reg players spot on day one. full of bugs and system specific crashes and errors.
It would be better i think, but only if they are actually going to use whatever feedback they get, and rapidly update and fix the test servers and try new things. -
07-24-2011, 01:39 PMWolfieThere is that too. The impression I've been consistently getting from the devs is that they're either really slow or really swamped with work. I can't say with certainty that if they put in a PTS, that they would be able to use even majority of the feedback or that they would be able to do rapid builds on it for testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
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07-24-2011, 02:28 PMIleanThis ^ = /THREADQuote:
Originally Posted by Physic
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07-24-2011, 02:34 PMJynxOh but it isn't for everyone. It's for those who happen to get in before the test realm is full.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
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07-24-2011, 02:44 PMIleanWhich is a fairly representative sample of the general server population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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07-24-2011, 02:54 PMWolfieI've almost never seen that happen with WOW's PTRs, because there's actually very few people who WANT to play on PTRs. Most that are interested in the upcoming content only log in to check it out once or simply stick to reading patch notes and forum posts about the features.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
But that's all pointless because whatever progress people make on PTRs is going to get wiped. None of it makes it to live servers. It quite literally does not affect you in any way. -
07-24-2011, 04:12 PMJynx
Well you can be of your opinion then and I can be of mine. My opinion is that PTR's are useless in the long run for the reasons above.
If I have any others I'll be sure to post them, in my opinion the positives are outwieghed highly by the negative. -
07-24-2011, 04:27 PMSuzakuCMX
Personally, I wouldn't use it. I'd rather be in the real, stable game.
But I do know that they work well.
For example, in League of Legends, one of the most overpowered release champions was released while the testing server was down prior. It was horrible. -
07-24-2011, 05:13 PMAlhanelem
Came in here to say "Every server is a public test server right now" but apparently it's already been said. :p
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07-24-2011, 10:53 PMWolfie
Yep. And if they are treating us like a beta/PTS, then this game is going to continue being in a very dire shape.
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07-24-2011, 11:49 PMVahzl
To be honest with you, at the moment, we are the test server, as like all other PTR's it has the following:
- Some overbalanced/underbalanced content
- Laggy and slow, occasional disconnects
- Unfinished content, and glitches/bugs
- A vocal but extremely annoying minority who bark on forums about everything they can shove into their soggy knickers
- No subscription fee
- Constant Developer Feedback
So even though it isn't officially announced, sorry guys, but we are simply guinea pigs while they test out their changes on us. -
07-25-2011, 12:53 AMAlhanelem
The public test phase most likely ends with the PS3 release. :p