Hello. I'm new to tanking on FFXIV, so correct me if I say something wrong, please.
I've just reached level 32 on my Marauder, and I'm about to do the quest that will give me the job. I've been playing other classes, but then decided to switch over a tank role. I love the Marauder and its skills, and so far I've been doing ok. Here's the problem, though.
More often than not - especially during boss fights with adds - I find myself lacking the necessary TP to use another Overpower or Tomahawk, and grab everyone's attention on me. It's frustrating. I don't usually lose aggro, but sometimes I do against trash groups if I'm not spamming Overpower or use it sometimes along the rotation.
Tanking advice as a Marauder/Warrior
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07-01-2014, 05:09 PMLolifellTanking advice as a Marauder/Warrior
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07-01-2014, 05:09 PMLolifell
I definitely still need to learn how to correctly rotate my skills. Right now I pull with a Tomahawk, stand still and let the monsters come at me, Overpower them twice and then stay on the marked target and use Heavy Swing>Skull Sunder>Butcher's Block>Heavy Swing>Maim>Overpower and so on. My main target never loses aggro. Sometimes I lose one of the other targets, but with a Tomahawk and Overpower they are back on me.
I keep my equipment up to date with the content I'm doing. The main issue is, again, that during boss fights I tend to use Overpower too much and end with little to no TP. I have Invigorate but I prefer not to use it because I'll lose it as a Warrior, and I don't want to rely on it too much. I know the issue is with the Overpower spam when adds come, but how can I get them and let them stay on me without using it? Especially during fights that spawn a lot of adds. And can I get some overall tips to be a better tank, and on how to effectively use my buffs? -
07-01-2014, 05:10 PMLolifell
I use Foresight when I am pacified after Berserk or when I think I'll be taking a lot of damage from huge spawns, but maybe I could do better. Same for Bloodbath, but in that case I use it when my healer has some difficulty and then go on with the Butcher's Block combo to maximize its effect. Berserk is another tricky one: I use it at the beginning of every hard trash fight, or boss battle.
I want to thank all the healers I've played with anyway. Your job really is difficult. I can't get angry to anyone regardless, but I especially can't with you guys, since it must be so hard to heal me/us tanks when the fight gets nasty. I play mostly with a group of friends, and the two people who play a healer alternatively are really, really great. All my thanks to them and to whoever heals me.
And thanks in advance for the help. -
07-01-2014, 05:48 PMAloreal
I have the same exact problem with the over consumption of TP even in the lower level I am. overpower is such a TP hog that i have limited it to 1 use and 1 if needed (eg adds come in)
I make use of a flash or two if i need to grab an add. since it uses mp it gives me some time of leverage.
also try not to attack as soon as possible. after a combo count 1-2 seconds before continuing.
Those are what i do. if any more experienced warriors would like to add their views please do :) -
07-01-2014, 06:50 PMNaryorilI can't talk about Marauder, but as a Paladin i don't do this. Usually i run right into the Mobs and on my way i throw a Shield Lob at my main target and then i Flash 2 or 3 times and use Circle of Scorn (AoE Damage and DoT which is not on global cooldown) if possible. The problem is that your group often won't give you the time to pull the enemies to you. Of course, there are fights where this is necessary because of adds or other circumstances, but if it isn't, i just run into the group to get aggro faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolifell
This method has the disadvantage that the mobs will usually be all around you for a moment, which isn't a problem for flash, but it is for overpower. As a Warrior i'd probably do it like this:
Tomahawk and run into the mobs, Flash, and during the next global cooldown get them/yourself into a position where you can use overpower and do it 1 or 2 times. But i can't talk from experience here. -
07-01-2014, 06:58 PMDeifact
I'm about the same level warrior and have same TP issues. I just let my tp regent up a bit if it's low by auto attacking.
A method I've found works is tomahawk the main target while running into the group then run slightly past them, they'll gather behind you allowing you to use an overpower.
Tomahawk is a tp hog I don't know how effective it is just not using it and getting initial aggro by just running into the group. -
07-01-2014, 09:37 PMNabian
TP issues will always be a problem at lower levels. Once you get higher level and access to more skills you will have less TP issues (but not much).
As for your rotation it depends largely on the mobs you are facing. If there are less than 3 mobs I typically won't even use Overpower. Overpower is our AoE threat move. Typically unless the DPS are going AoE crazy. Two Overpowers is more than enough to hold hate for the rest of the fight. Just make sure you are cycling your targets and hitting each of them periodically so the healer doesn't rip them off you. Marking the targets may help alot with keeping aggro but the dps won't always follow your markings so just be ready. As for pacification, you can make a macro that tells your healer when to esuna/leech it off (but they never do). Pacification just makes it so you can't attack it doesn't lower your defenses afaik. Save your cooldowns for when you know the big hits are coming and don't blow them all at once.
Hope this helped
P.S. you can bypass the 1000char limit by editing your own post. -
07-01-2014, 09:37 PMAlorealTomahawk needs to be used once if you want to gather all up nice and tidy im afraid. usually when its just 'view' aggro any attack will brake it, so its counter productive to leave it to the mob to come to you and then a dps just happens to attack whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deifact
In the least someone will take note of who you tomahawked and act accordingly.
so we are left with tom then overpower or even flash. flash is weaker than overpower but it costs mp so it can help some, especially if you already have aggro i find it easier to flash than to rotate between targets like the paladin. -
07-01-2014, 09:40 PMNabianI wouldn't even recommend having flash on your toolbar as a warrior. It's "ok" in rare situations but it is weaker than Overpower and even when your at full MP you can only use it 3-4 times max. Not really worth it. There are much better alternatives like..."Convalescence", "Internal Release", "Mantra", "Awareness", "Provoke"Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloreal
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07-01-2014, 09:47 PMEricCartmenez
Did you start your GLA yet? You can grab flash from there. You can also get provoke. Flash eats MP, which you don't have a lot of, so be conservative. Provoke uses neither TP nor MP, so it's nice to use in a situation like that, and then it's on cool down (CD) for 40 sec's. I've found that as a low level tank, you can use everything in the book, but if someone with item level 100 and an atma weapon is banging away, you're going to lose enmity (aggro). You can also get Savage Blade from your GLA class, and that has an enmity boost associated as well. As for your own strikes that maintain enmity, use Heavy Swing followed by Skull Sunder in a combo. I typically use a macro that sends a Tomahawk at the target I want as 1. I then run into the middle and flash, get to an edge and Overpower (maybe 2x's) and then start beating with heavy swing, skull sunder, and savage blade (in that order). If I lose aggro, I might try to pull it back, but not at the expense of kiting a mob around the room. If a DPS is running around like his hair is on fire, you might be fighting a losing battle trying to get where you can grab aggro while literally running in a circle. :D If the healer is smart and has aggro, they will bring the mob to you so you can overpower and flash. They can do this by running or using fluid aura to push them your way. Sometimes, it's a losing battle. You get EoS or Silene from a high level SCH, and you may as well just concentrate on beating that mob down when you've cleared everything else.
Things that are out of your control can be the level of the other folks, DPS who run ahead and try to tank for you, DPS who attack wrong targets and kite them around, and adds that pop up while you're trying to keep the giant monster in one place. I've only been tanking a little while, so I can only share what's worked and advice others have given me that's been tried and true.
And to agree with Nabian, flash is often overused but at lower levels, any little bit can help. I forgot to mention Internal Release and Convalescence. I haven't got Awareness or Mantra yet, I'm not leveled that far in the GLA or PUG yet. As soon as I have those, I will have a cool down macro for them as well. -
07-01-2014, 10:24 PMNaryorilDon't take this one. You have an equivalent skill as a Marauder which can be linked into combos. There is no point in taking this skill. And it's the same the other way around, the Paladin can take the first skill of the Marauder combo, but there is no point, because he might just as well use Savage Blade to use his own combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricCartmenez
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07-01-2014, 10:32 PMAlorealI do see the problem with flash not worth it. i was refering to lower level im afraid. at lower levels its a good policy to have it, for me at least, due to the sheer fact that everything eats tp and i use it as a 'breather' move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabian
Also i would like to ask something. Mantra. is the 5% really worth it? it gets convalence to 25% since it stacks, but is it used for external healing or do our bloodbath/second wind kicks it as well? -
07-02-2014, 05:46 AMEricCartmenezThere might be truth to that, and if so, there's zero.zero reason to cross class these in the first place. Since they cost the same TP as their counterpart, then what was the purpose? Because you can? I wonder what the enmity values are in relationship to each other and as a cross class skill. All we get is "increases enmity".Quote:
Originally Posted by Naryoril
These are the questions that keep me up at night. Ok, they really don't, but what if they did. :D -
07-02-2014, 06:07 AMA_Magical_Unicorn_Rider
At lower levels I start grabbing a mob with tomahawk, move into them and overpower, go through BB combo, switch target, BB combo, switch, etc. If maim is available, I'll throw that in. Depending on how many mobs there are, I'll switch targets even while combo animation is going just to check aggro on every mob. If there's one I'm somehow losing threat on, I'll switch to that one and… http://youtu.be/2Oy6DwHAi70.
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07-02-2014, 06:13 AMMaxin_Rudy
do your job quest, defiance is a skill that will change your tanking... believe me, you won't have agro problem and since you'll generate a lot more of emnity you'll have to hit the mob way less... sometimes, when i'm tanking, i have so much advantage in emninity that i can simple stay 5 or 7 seconds without using any abilities to regain some TP... early levels tanking is simply a PITA
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07-02-2014, 07:35 AMNabianIt's very situational but unfortunately you don't have many better options. For example think about Leviathan's 2hr move. Popping Mantra in the absence of a Monk provides an extra 5% healing to the group. No it's not required...but I still find it more useful than flash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloreal
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07-02-2014, 03:31 PMAloreal^^This. all of this. low level tanking is always a PITA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxin_Rudy
Since im low level, and not have the defiance ill stick to flash. after i get it ill reevaluate my crossclass. i was thinking something in the lines of Featherfoot, convalence, awareness, provoke, internal release. with a few mix ups, eg awareness switched for something else if im not speed running bray or not in extreme, coils.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabian
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07-02-2014, 04:45 PMNaryorilFor a paladin or marauder they are completely useless. But don't forget that other classes can also cross class these skills. A monk can cross class to marauder, and he could take this skill to help him get aggro off a healer for example. It doesn't make much sense, but at least they are theoretically useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricCartmenez
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07-02-2014, 11:36 PMEricCartmenezI'm at level 29 (and that was as of last night about 11:00 PM), so I don't have that. I will definitely be grabbing that. I'm trying to level my GLA in parallel, but the MRD is so much more fun to tank, so the GLA is only 24. Having done the same dungeons (almost exclusively with random participants) as each class, I've found that grabbing and holding enmity is much easier with the MRD than GLA even at these lower levels. Flash is a relative joke, even as a GLA, but at my lower level, it was at least a tool I could use for on top of Overpower and Skull Sunder as a MRD. What grinds my gears (Family Guy reference) is how Flash doesn't seem to do an darned thing if I need to grab enmity from a healer, even as a GLA! I can get between the two and flash, flash, flash on top of a Savage Blade combo (remember, as a level 24 GLA) and every cool down in my inventory and nothing happens. Frustrated does not begin to describe my mind set at that moment. Once I get to 30 (141723 EXP to go), I will be doing my job quest for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxin_Rudy
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07-03-2014, 05:59 AMNabianAwareness has become much more popular lately. Especially since bosses in coil2 and leviathan can and do often crit. I had featherfoot on my bar for awhile but wasn't noticing many procs during boss fights (some swear by it though). At low levels flash can be useful and since you still are limited in your options its not a bad choice. Many low level marauder will forego provoke for dungeons since in most cases you shouldn't be losing aggro (an if you do its usually not a big deal).Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloreal
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07-03-2014, 06:17 AMKitruFlash doesn't deal damage and, as such, doesn't benefit from FoF or any other +dam ability (which just to happens to be all of the CC abilities you could possibly use to buff it; this also means that it cannot crit). The only thing you could use to increase you enmity gen from Flash is a STR pot, since that increases attack power, which *does* impact Flash's enmity generation (it generates enmity *as if* it were a ~480 potency hit, so it uses your attack power and weapon damage to calculate the value of said potency).Quote:
Originally Posted by EricCartmenez
At low levels (pre-RoH and BB), the best enmity generation per GCD you can manage is your AoE spam. For a MRD, this generally means throwing out 3-5 Overpowers at the start of a fight (and often times running out of TP and requiring a breather because it costs so much), and, for GLA, it generally means Flash spamming until you run out of MP and then Riot Blading back to full (so that you don't have downtime before the next pull).
Until you get your t3 combo attacks, your ST rotations are really just there for damage purposes. Establish enmity with your AoEs and *then* start doing ST damage, otherwise you're liable to lose aggro all the time. -
07-03-2014, 06:28 AMKitruFeatherfoot's value comes in allowing you to dodge auto-attacks (which it can and does do); this effectively makes it a counterpoint to Awareness, which allows you to avoid crits (which only occur on auto-attacks) except that it's slightly better than Awareness over time because it provides a chance to completely avoid attacks rather than reduce the damage by 33% (crits hit for 1.5; being immune to crits is effectively a chance, since it has to crit, of getting rid of that multiplier). Featherfoot isn't going to be something you really want to use as a traditional cooldown (e.g. save it for high damage situations) because it's a small value RNG mitigator so you're only going to see appreciable returns by using it on CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabian
The value in Awareness actually comes from stabilizing your incoming damage profile. Featherfoot makes your incoming damage profile spikier (even if it's a lower amount of damage taken over time) whereas Awareness places an absolute cap on how much damage auto-attacks can deal. Since mean mitigation isn't really a massive concern thanks to healers being incredibly strong and mp pools continually growing, stabilizing your incoming damage profile has greater value.
Personally, I'm getting rid of Mantra in favor of Awareness rather than dropping Featherfoot. Mantra's 5% increase in healing is barely perceptible and there aren't as many occasions where you have everyone stacking up on top of the tank in order to really get the AoE value out of it. That puts my CC allotment at Conv, IR, Featherfoot, Awareness, and Provoke (in that order). -
07-03-2014, 05:08 PMIowella
I'm a new, low level marauder, level 29 now, so about the same level as the OP. I just have to say I'm finding it invaluable to take advantage of both Overpower and Flash and being able to do both. I alternate both although I've been using Flash first until I can position myself better for Overpower. I did notice that Overpower's range is bigger than Flash's range. It does depend on the situation, but I've been using Tomahak Throw --> (run into group) Flash --> (position) Overpower and I both end up with TP and MP and I haven't been having issues with enmity / holding aggro, I do cycle in Overpower multiple times usually after the initial pull. I don't know if this helps but for me being low level I haven't noticed that many issues with aggro.
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07-04-2014, 01:53 AMEuphe
Hmmm. I favor MRD over GLD for tanking by a long shot. Mainly because I don't have to worry so much about threat generation and I got good enough with balancing Overpower with Flash so I can chain pull on most lower level dungeons (with the healers consent of course... I hate stressing them out unnecessarily). Maybe for lower levels I may respec points into STR for my GLD (if STR plays a part in Flash's effectiveness). After I hit lv30PLD I will probably respec back to VIT once again. Mainly because of Bray's poisons. I had no idea Flash used your Atk. Power + STR; thanks for the tip!
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07-04-2014, 03:19 AMTGKittyGirl
In my experience with playing as a warrior, (which isn't much~ only got to lvl 36 on another character) any dungeon bellow lvl sync 30 its really hard to control TP usage. Flash is a good breather move because overpower's TP cost can hurt. While I was playing MRD I had invigorate to help with that~ It gives back 400 TP and that can save you in those "OH CRAP" moments when your healer is getting slapped in the face cause you have no TP XD The little extra time to get lancer to lvl 22 is worth it for me~
However I think TP becomes less of an issue when you get defiance~ Enmity boost YAY <3 -
07-04-2014, 10:26 PMCold_RavenHello, I wanted to reply to this earlier... but, well, life :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolifell
And beast quests... those take up so much time...
Anyway: Most of the information here seems spot-on to me. I think by now your questions have been answered and you've probably progressed to the point where this isn't an issue anymore. But I'll respond with a few points I thought should be mentioned in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation.
Yeah, it takes a bit of experience to start balancing the TP usage. Especially in the earlier dungeons. But you get used to it. I promise :)Quote:
More often than not - especially during boss fights with adds - I find myself lacking the necessary TP to use another Overpower or Tomahawk, and grab everyone's attention on me. It's frustrating.
First things first... get the soul crystal. It does provide some stat bonuses and helpful things that make pretty much everything easier and nicer. Without it, you may just be limiting yourself unnecessarily.Quote:
I've just reached level 32 on my Marauder, and I'm about to do the quest that will give me the job.
General note on hate-management:
When a mob dies (especially the first one) and there's other mobs in the group, the mob that died should be just-about-but-not-quite losing hate. Any "extra hate cushion" you had on the mob that just died was wasted. That "wasted hate generation" could have been used on one of the other still-living mobs and you'd be in a better position for the rest of the fight.
Don't worry, it take a lot of getting used to.
Especially if you're just starting to tank things... because you feel immense pressure to "HOLD ALL HATE ON THE GUY EVERYONE'S ATTACKING!!!!111" :)
Try to find that sweet-spot of getting enough hate built up on the first mob so that you can move on to the other mobs and comfortably attack when and how you'd like to.
Another tip for early dungeons if you're low on TP:
You don't have to attack all the time.
If there was a group of 3 mobs, and the first two are dead, and you have lots of hate built up on the last but you're running low on TP... just stop attacking. Sit there and don't move. You'll auto-attack a little bit anyway. But if you're not attacking... you'll regain TP naturally. And if you already have the hate-cushion built up... that's fine.
Sure, you're losing a bit of team DPS this way, but if you don't have to "wait for TP to fill up" before attacking the next group... you're still making things faster anyway.
Take care and have fun!
Remember... Warrior is all about situational reactions. There is no "best combo" to use all the time, everytime. Different situations require different tactics. Try to get the basics down first (holding hate). Then start playing around with all your other abilities to see what they do and see what helps the party most during different situations.
Warrior has a lot of different skills. Once you're comfortable holding hate, play around with them and see what works best and when. It's a long game, feel free to take a dungeon or two to experiment a bit here and there :) -
07-05-2014, 02:02 AMAnova
1 Overpower is usually enough for most mobs in the initial pull to keep your healer safe. After that, you will want to butcherblock combo your first target. Feel free to switch targets afterwards and use butcherblock to solidly grab the other enemies. Butcherblock generates the most aggro of all your skills, and for dps who blow all their cds in the first 6 seconds of the pull, you may want to use 1 butcherblock first before going in to your first enmity combo.
Also, you will definitely want the warrior's lv.30 job ability, defiance, asap. The increased enmity generation will help a lot in tanking; allowing you enough enmity to keep aggro and auto-attack to rebuild tp.