what will be the main stat for Rogue/Ninja?

Okay so I don't know if this has already been brought up, but I'm I the only one that hopes the new class/job will use DEX?

So far I think Archer and Bard are the only classes that used DEX as their main stat. It's frustrating to think that I can't reuse some of my DEX heavy gear for another class~ what do you guys think or I'm I just crazy and another class uses DEX that I don't know of @_@;?

Yoshi P would not confirm in a recent interview. Hell it could be INT judging by the use of poisons and ninja magic junk. But yeah, nobody knows for sure right now.

If you are asking people to confirm whether it would be nice to reuse accessories you already have, then yes, that would be nice.

I think the general description of STR was that increased the potency of melee attacks, while DEX increased the potency of ranged attacks. Something like that.

So it would depend on the theme of Rogue/Ninja I suppose: Is it like ninja stars & poison & ninja magic applied at range? Then DEX (or even INT). Is it more knives up close? Then STR.

That's my assumption at least. :)

Strength.

That is all.

There are some who are theorizing that it's Dexterity because of a set of new traits that were datamined after 2.28. It's a set with Dex I-III traits, the rogue's decreased fall damage and increased movement speed, and some related to poisons; another confirmed element of the Rogue. If all of these traits are for the Rogue/Ninja, then it might actually be Dex based. Alternately... what if the Rogue was Dex based but the Ninja was Str based? That'd be a twist!

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

Enter the "Skills" tab here and the traits in question are on the top of the list. They're all in Japanese, though, but someone translated it somewhere. I'll edit this post if I find it.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

There are some who are theorizing that it's Dexterity because of a set of new traits that were datamined after 2.28. It's a set with Dex I-III traits, the rogue's decreased fall damage and increased movement speed, and some related to poisons; another confirmed element of the Rogue. If all of these traits are for the Rogue/Ninja, then it might actually be Dex based. Alternately... what if the Rogue was Dex based but the Ninja was Str based? That'd be a twist!

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

Enter the "Skills" tab here and the traits in question are on the top of the list. They're all in Japanese, though, but someone translated it somewhere. I'll edit this post if I find it.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Roughly translated for people (they are traits):

ＤＥＸアップ (Lv8) - DEX up.
-> ＤＥＸを2上昇する - Increases DEX by 2.

落下ダメージ軽減 (Lv14) - Fall damage reduction.
-> 落下による被ダメージを軽減する - Reduces the damage caused by falling.

ＤＥＸアップII (Lv16) - DEX up II.
-> ＤＥＸを4上昇する - Increases DEX by 4.

ステルス効果アップ (LV20) - Stealth effect up.
-> ステルス中の移動速度低下を軽減する - Reduces the movement speed reduction when in stealth.

ＤＥＸアップIII (Lv24) - DEX up III.
-> ＤＥＸを6上昇する - Increases DEX by 6.

移動速度アップ (Lv28) - Movement speed up.
-> 自身の移動速度を上昇させる - Increases personal movement speed.

単体特化毒Buff効果アップ (Lv32)- Single specialized poison buff effect up.
-> 単体特化毒Buff（猛毒）の与ダメージ上昇効果を20％に上昇する - Single specialized poison buff (Highly Toxic) increases physical damage by 20%.

TPリジェネ付与効果アップ (Lv36)- TP Regen effect up.
-> TPリジェネ付与によるＴＰ回復効果の効果量を上昇する。 - Grants increased effective recovery amount of TP regen.

複数特化毒Buff効果アップ (Lv40) - Multiple specialized (?) poison Buff effect up.
-> 複数特化毒Buffの与物理ダメージ上昇効果を10％に上昇する - Multiple specialized poison buff increases physical damage by 10%.

コンボB-1効果アップ (Lv44) - Combo B-1 effect up
-> コンボB-1の継続ダメージの威力を45に上昇する - Combo B-1 DoT increased to 45.

ナイフ投げPBAE効果アップ (Lv48) - Knife throwing PBAE (Player-based Area of Effect?) effect up.
-> ナイフ投げPBAEの威力を80に上昇する - Knife Throw PBAE power rises to 80.

VERY interesting on the 3 DEX+ traits. They may not be for Ninja at all as they have included Stone in the list as well but it is entirely possible as they fall at levels the Rogue would be missing traits for. Yoshi most certainly did say to hold onto melee DPS gear though which is confusing. Perhaps Rogue will use DEX afterall and Ninja will use STR.

What I'm seeing here is that Rogue (perhaps Ninja too) will have at least 2 combo chains, A and B. With the clarification of B-1 I'm assuming there is also at least a B-2 as well. This means there could be a potential branching point for Ninja and a secondary job or perhaps just for skills in general.

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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/images/blank.gif

Were long overdue for another DEX based class. The argument could be made that DEX is a requirement for picking holes in your enemies armour.

Additionally, another strength based class would grossly imbalance loot competition in coils and ex primals.

I doubt it will be Dex, that is most likely for the gun class they were withholding information about.

I think itllb str. But then again I won't mind if it's dexter also. I pretty much te gears to put on my ninja

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Originally Posted by ShiroSteve

Additionally, another strength based class would grossly imbalance loot competition in coils and ex primals.

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That's the basic argument I'm going with.

All loot has an equal chance to drop, regardless of how many classes can/should use it. As such, the

WAR: competes with PLD
PLD: competes with WAR
SMN: competes with BLM
BLM: competes with SMN
WHM: competes with SCH
SCH: competes with WHM
BRD: competes with no one
MNK: competes with no one for armor, competes with DRG for jewelry
DRG: competes with no one for armor, competes with MNK for jewelry

It's pretty obvious that BRD has a significant loot advantage given that it's only ever competing with other BRDs. MNK and DRG have advantages on their armor because they're only competing with others of their class for armor.

If ROG/NIN were to be STR based, BRD would remain distinctly advantaged since it would *still* have no one competing with it on anything, MNK would see its chances of getting usable armor reduced to the same chances as everyone else, and MNK/DRG/NIN would all have a worse chance than anyone else of getting usable jewelry.

If ROG/NIN were to be DEX based, however, the only drop discrepancy would be MNK/DRG armor (if NIN and BRD use the same armor) or NIN/BRD would match MNK/DRG (if NIN and BRD use diff armor). In neither case will there be absolute loot parity, but the loot distribution will at least be more even rather than less so.

The only possible way I could see the devs giving ROG/NIN STR gear (if they care about preserving the loot distribution at all) would be to specifically weigh all of the drop based upon the classes that would find them useful (e.g. tank armor/jewelry is weighted twice as heavily as BRD gear).

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Originally Posted by Kitru

MNK: competes with no one for armor, competes with DRG for jewelry
DRG: competes with no one for armor, competes with MNK for jewelry

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Let's not forget those offtank builds.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

That's the basic argument I'm going with.

All loot has an equal chance to drop, regardless of how many classes can/should use it. As such, the

WAR: competes with PLD
PLD: competes with WAR
SMN: competes with BLM
BLM: competes with SMN
WHM: competes with SCH
SCH: competes with WHM
BRD: competes with no one
MNK: competes with no one for armor, competes with DRG for jewelry
DRG: competes with no one for armor, competes with MNK for jewelry

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I think they may make it Monk armour, Dex accessories but that seems silly. On top of the fact that the Gun class is probably full on Dex so it's a hard guess to make.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Let's not forget those offtank builds.

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Tanks can't roll <NEED> on STR accessories so that isn't a factor in the loot pooling.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

I doubt it will be Dex, that is most likely for the gun class they were withholding information about.

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They've said that the next 2 classes we're going to get are going to be a tank and a healer. Yoshi has also said that the gun class would be more like a caster (stand there and do cast times) than BRD (everything instant), which wouldn't really work for a tank (casting in melee is just fail, especially as a tank when you need to be able to dodge). As such, if we're going to be getting the gun class any time soon, I would expect it to be a healer, wherein I doubt it's going to be using DEX (it's possible, but unlikely).

Of course, the devs might've just decided not to add the gun using class for a good long while (or even add it ever). Arguing about what mainstat it would have based upon the current loot distribution is ignoring the fact that the loot distribution could be entirely different (from the devs adding even more classes before or alongside it).

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I think they may make it Monk armour, Dex accessories but that seems silly.

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I would seriously have to wonder how they would implement that, mainly because the loot that a class/job can roll need on is assigned arbitrarily but the gear that a class/job actually wears is based upon what the mainstat is set as.

I can think of only 2 ways they'd be able to have ROG/NIN use MNK gear while having DEX as some kind of mainstat: ROG/NIN benefits from both (which would end up screwing with balance because endgame gear is mono-stat whereas crafted and leveling gear is dual stat) or they change MNK gear so that it has DEX in addition to STR (it wouldn't really buff MNK all that much because all get is a tiny bit of parry rate out of it).

The other option would be for ROG/NIN to be DEX based but get its own set of armor similar to how DRG and MNK have different armor sets. Unless the devs plan on limiting ROG/NIN endgame gear pretty heavily around the time they're released (or putting in a lot of effort to create models for gear that will only ever exist for glamour for a single class/job), that's the only real solution that I can imagine since the CT2 DEX gear is explicitly BRD.

Of course, all of this could be entirely wrong. The devs might've played around with having ROG/NIN use DEX and abandoned it (since the stuff we've got for traits is artefactual, and it's entirely possible that it's not what they're using internally).

Didn't Yoshi say in an interview to specifically hold onto the Str based gear you already have?

Everything is possible right now, if you read the bluegartr interview here:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/122...edia-Interview

What will the main stat be?
I can’t discuss it yet. It’s also possible we’ll change it from what we’ve already planned (laughs).

Can't be DEX. They'd have to change the way DEX works then. DEX is for ranged dmg according to it's tooltip (bows/guns). STR is for melee. ROG and NIN are melees, so they'll use STR.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Can't be DEX. They'd have to change the way DEX works then.

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Whether STR or DEX determines your attack power is assigned arbitrarily. There is no "ranged attack power" and "melee attack power"; there is simply "attack power", and the stat that determines it could be whatever the devs feel like.

Furthermore, there is no difference between a "melee" attack used at 4y and one used at 15y (e.g. Piercing Talon is, from the point of view of your attributes, a melee attack even though it has a 15y range), just like there is no difference between a "ranged" attack with melee range (i.e. Repelling Shot) and a ranged attack with a 20y range. The attack types are basically assigned arbitrarily based upon the class itself (e.g. every attack used by a melee attacker is categorized as a melee attack even if it's not used in melee or if it has more in common with a magical ability than a physical ability, like Circle of Scorn or Flash) which is assigned entirely separately from what stat is used to determine the attack power of a given class.

As such, it's entirely possible for the devs to make it so that ROG/NIN uses DEX rather than STR without changing anything on the back end.

On top of all this, using the tooltips as an argument as to why ROG/NIN is going to use STR rather than DEX is confusing correlation for causation. It would make absolutely no sense for the devs to have the tooltip for DEX refer to increasing the attack power of some melee attackers if there are no melee attackers that use DEX in game currently even if they planned on adding a class that used DEX using melee class later on since it would just confuse people.

If anything, it makes more sense for the devs to make ROG/NIN use DEX instead of STR: the fundamental thing that a class's mainstat assignment determines (the assignment itself, not the mainstat) is who you share gear with. If ROG/NIN were to use STR, it would share STR gear with 2 other class/jobs while DEX gear would be the sole providence of ARC/BRDs.

As an aside, people like to bring up the whole "2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 melee DPS, 2 casters, 1 ranged" set up for the job spread largely because that's how the class/jobs are spread out according to the Limit Break system. A better way to look at the spread (from a design/composition standpoint) is "2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 melee DPS, 3 ranged DPS" (since BRD, SMN, and BLM all do DPS from range) and see the ROG/NIN as the class that evens out the melee/ranged disparity.

Yoshi be like Hey guys save your melee gear for Ninja. People be like "But it's Dex based!" So basically ignore what is coming directly out of Yoshi's mouth,"First off, because the class is going to be a melee DPS-type class, that gear that you have for other melee DPS classes and jobs is probably something that you'll want to hold on to."

I understand a datamine whipped out some dex, but i think yoshi would know about what's currently going on with something as major as a new class/job, especially what gear it's going to use. Now if yoshi was like hey we're doing something a little different with ninja then i could see, but he told everyone clear as day to save the melee gear.

In the end...i dont care 'cause ill be maining it either way \(^_^)/.

It baffles me how people can think that ROG/NIN competing with MNK and DRG for STR gear is unfair or corrupts the balance of gear pools. Does everyone just choose to forget that there is already another ranged class in the making? We haven't heard much on it because it isn't ready to be talked about yet, or as much has been stated. What happens if you make NIN a DEX class and then your other ranged class comes out? That would put DEX classes at 3 rather than STR classes at 3. Do you think they'll make that class INT or some other ridiculous work around? No, it will be DEX, because it's a ranged class.

This "problem" with having too many classes lotting on certain stats isn't even a reasonable argument. Every fight in this game is balanced so that you can clear it with 2 tanks, 4 dps, and 2 healers. In the duty finder you have a limited amount of DPS classes, but there is always the chance you could get 4 mnks, or 4 drg, or 3 mnks and 1 brd, etc etc for however many combinations lotting on the same type of gear. So adding NIN to the pool of STR doesn't change anything. You still have the same chance of competing with other jobs for gear. If you're making pre-made groups you can further limit what jobs you want to join, so I feel this is a moot point. As this game gets older, with more and more classes coming out, it's inevitable that you will see more jobs competing for certain stats, all that can be changed is the order in which it happens.

I highly doubt they will add yet another set of STR gear to be used solely by NIN, because that WOULD throw off the balance of gear pools even further. If anything, it will share MNK gear. As more sets come out there appears to be the trend of MNK wearing lighter armor while DRG has heavier plate sets. I don't see NIN fitting aesthetically with DRG but it fits just fine with MNK, which already has the eastern style Fuma set to boot, and seemingly more like it in the future.

But what about the traits, you ask? Hell if I know. Do you know how many traits are in the database in Japanese spread out all over the place? For all we know they could be already existing traits that were touched in an update and mixed around in the database as a result, or they could be related to the long awaited second ranged class that they refuse to talk about yet. Why would the development team go out of their way to complicate their own stats by giving an obviously melee class DEX, which by definition is suited for ranged classes?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I think they may make it Monk armour, Dex accessories but that seems silly. On top of the fact that the Gun class is probably full on Dex so it's a hard guess to make.

Tanks can't roll <NEED> on STR accessories so that isn't a factor in the loot pooling.

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If you're going by that then the MNK/DRG competition point is invalid as well. So assuming that's not the case, Kitru is talking primarily about non-need parties and then my point stands.

Anyway, as it's come out in the recent interview, even SE is undecided at this point, which means they're considering both options.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

If you're going by that then the MNK/DRG competition point is invalid as well. So assuming that's not the case, Kitru is talking primarily about non-need parties and then my point stands.

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High Allagan X of Slaying can be needed on by both Monk and Dragoon, but not by tanks. It's pretty recent that both melee had to share accessories, but I'm sure that's what SE will do going forward to alleviate some coding (as miniscule as it may be). In that regard, which I'm sure the point was actually meant for, the your point is irrelevant. Tanks are supposed to spec VIT, not roll on accessories that have none.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

High Allagan X of Slaying can be needed on by both Monk and Dragoon, but not by tanks. It's pretty recent that both melee had to share accessories, but I'm sure that's what SE will do going forward to alleviate some coding (as miniscule as it may be). In that regard, which I'm sure the point was actually meant for, the your point is irrelevant. Tanks are supposed to spec VIT, not roll on accessories that have none.

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Hmm, first part I wasn't aware of; thanks. 2nd part... "tanks are supposed to spec VIT..." ... you did notice I said offtanks right? If so, thanks for the laugh. If not, well, yeah, I said offtanks.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

It baffles me how people can think that ROG/NIN competing with MNK and DRG for STR gear is unfair or corrupts the balance of gear pools. Does everyone just choose to forget that there is already another ranged class in the making?

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The next 2 classes we're getting after ROG/NIN are going to be a tank and a healer, which will come with the expansion. Unless MSK/??? is a healer, in all likelihood, it has once again been relegated to the position of "vapor-class" which means we're not likely to see it until well after the next expansion lands which, according to Yoshi, is going to be at least 3 more major patches out: CT and coil are both going to have at least 3 layers and they swap for major patches; 2.3 is going to be new CT, 2.4 is going to be new coil, and 2.5 is going to be new CT. At 3 months between major patches, that's basically another year before we see the expansion and probably another 1-2 more major patches before we see additional classes added to the ones the expansion adds.

MSK/??? has about as much impact upon near term loot distribution (which is what we're talking about) as the Christmas weather forecast has upon your Fourth of July plans.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Tanks are supposed to spec VIT, not roll on accessories that have none.

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It's kind of tangential, but that's more of an issue with VIT being a stat that is very easily rendered redundant as opposed to variations in main stat. I think that the devs should start adding free parry or def/mdef to tank accs to encourage tanks to actually use them (since that will actually reduce the healing they require rather than just increase the amount of punishment they can take before dying) rather than ignoring VIT accs for STR (or STR/DEX crafted) ones.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

It's kind of tangential, but that's more of an issue with VIT being a stat that is very easily rendered redundant as opposed to variations in main stat. I think that the devs should start adding free parry or def/mdef to tank accs to encourage tanks to actually use them (since that will actually reduce the healing they require rather than just increase the amount of punishment they can take before dying) rather than ignoring VIT accs for STR (or STR/DEX crafted) ones.

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I agree. I don't believe Warriors should be in the mindset that, "I'm not tanking, I better get a different set to increase my damage done". I'd much prefer them just being a DPS. Although, once you hit a high enough gear threshold, you can just throw out common sense and do whatever you want.

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Hmm, first part I wasn't aware of; thanks. 2nd part... "tanks are supposed to spec VIT..." ... you did notice I said offtanks right? If so, thanks for the laugh. If not, well, yeah, I said offtanks.

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Off tank is a tank who isn't tanking at the moment. If they are not tanking at all, they are not useful and should be replaced by a DPS (which should do far more damage than any off-tank can hope to do).

No, offtanks are also there to get adds etc. I know plenty of reports from warriors in SCoB that state the things they tank don't require VIT spec in the slightest. But a DPS would have neither the threat generation nor the defense to do their job.

And your point about MNK/DRG both lotting STR accessories in SCoB is also irrelevant, as greed parties are as common if not more so than need parties.

Well, it's like this; If a Warrior, Monk and Dragoon want to roll on High Allagan Necklace of Slaying, one of those three is losing for sure 100/100 times if the other two don't have it. They'll still lose 100/100 times if only one has it. So that's where the Monk and Dragoon compete for jewelry comes from. Whereas Warrior has to wait until they both win, then win against other people who want it for their alts. Which would be the same as if a Scholar wanted to roll against a Bard for High Allagan Ring of Aiming. That Scholar can't win no matter how high a greed roll (s)he puts forth..because need always wins over greed.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

No, offtanks are also there to get adds etc. I know plenty of reports from warriors in SCoB that state the things they tank don't require VIT spec in the slightest. But a DPS would have neither the threat generation nor the defense to do their job.

And your point about MNK/DRG both lotting STR accessories in SCoB is also irrelevant, as greed parties are as common if not more so than need parties.

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That's why you replace them with a dps and let the MT single tank SCoB outside of turn 6.

¿is there something new in dats from 2.3 about rogue/ninja)?
http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-DefendersOfEorzea2.3