Why is Coil so Cruel?

My group and I clear turns 6 and 7 just as well as the next, but I never get anything. It's starting to make me think of just quitting coil altogether. Why should I bother to continue with the current lockout system?

In all honesty, it's a matter of luck. I remember I started getting into the First Coil a couple of months after a few of my buddies, and in my third week doing it I got the Tunic of Healing. They had been trying since the start to get it and still hadn't, and they rightly hated my so-called luck/RNG!

It all depends on whether you feel you have enough to do outside of Coil or not :-)

Purpose of OP creating this thread?

"I didn't get what I wanted immediatley, so I'm going to throw my toys out of the pram"


I haven't got a single drop for my main from The Second Coil of Bahamut so far. Is that annoying? Yes. Does that mean I should cry about it on the forums? No.


The only way around this is to go back to a 'token' based system like 1.23, which would be MUCH more horrendous as the drop-rate for those was atrocious, you had even less chance of getting an item than you do now.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

"I didn't get what I wanted immediatley, so I'm going to throw my toys out of the pram"


I haven't got a single drop for my main from The Second Coil of Bahamut so far.

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Your main class, Conjurer. Has High Allagan earrings of healing.

Erm, ok then...

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Your main class, Conjurer. Has High Allagan earrings of healing.

Erm, ok then...

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Yeah...lol

If you haven't gotten anything from coil and your group can down T7/T8 you should really workout how everyone rolls on the tombstone and oil/sand... With a dedicated drop rate, you guys should be fair and take turns rolling on those items. Our static did it this way: People who get the tombstone are people without T5 weapon or animus > people without animus > people with animus. Once you clear T8 it will be the same if people already have novus. As for the oil/sand... if you get it once, you have to wait until everyone else gets one before you can roll again. This will probably be the same setup until we can clear t9. Not saying this is perfect but it works. Oh and if a person gets an actual item drop from T7/T8... they cant roll on the oil/sand for that run either.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Your main class, Conjurer. Has High Allagan earrings of healing.

Erm, ok then...

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Re-read what I wrote, don't skim over things.

I said very clearly; "I haven't got a single drop for my main"

I main Caster, the healing earrings were free-lot, as both our healers have them, and I can backup heal when necessary.


So far I've received one piece of gear I will actually use (I got a monk head free-lot which probably won't be used, regret rolling on that actually).


My point remains, you could go maybe four months without seeing a single drop for your main job in coil, it's just the luck of the draw (thankfully the oil/sands system helps a bit).

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Purpose of OP creating this thread?

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For venting.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Purpose of OP creating this thread?

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Purpose of you whining in it?

AFter Coil1 I have very little incentive to do coil 2. I went 4 months and only got caster ring, on my first day and clear. This really killed all of mine(as well as several people I knows) want to do the new coil at all. It would be cool to see a system where if you get a clear, and you don't get an item, then when you exit the turn you get a token for that turn(put an npc at exit/have the exit confirm. IE you did Turn 6 on whm cleared but didn't get an item then you get a WHMScoB#1 token. after you get 5 you can trade it in for 1 piece of high allagan gear. I mean thats over 1 full month without gear on 1 turn to get a piece thats more then fair. it also allows for when people screw up and exit before gear drops to not be completely hurt.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

For venting.

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Originally Posted by Amocoru

Purpose of you whining in it?

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Learn to move on. I haven't receive any BRD loots for 8 striaght weeks. No threads created here just to say this lol.

The only way this can get better is SE changed from dropping direct loots to loot tokens instead. Then the raid can plan a token reeving order/priority and the player can exchange the token say with Rowena for any gear of their choice, except for weapons.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Learn to move on. I haven't receive any BRD loots for 8 striaght weeks. No threads created here just to say this lol.

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Yeah but...you have upgraded Rosenbogen, High Allagan belt, gloves, boots and bracelet, upgraded Bard chest with Sands, three upgrades accessories with Oils and Slaying earrings for an alt. You're hardly starved of gear lol. If you had been clearing it since release and had yet to get a single piece maybe you could understand how OP is feeling. Being i110 or not far off, you can't really see where they are coming from.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Yeah but...you have upgraded Rosenbogen, High Allagan belt, gloves, boots and bracelet, upgraded Bard chest with Sands, three upgrades accessories with Oils and Slaying earrings for an alt. You're hardly starved of gear lol. If you had been clearing it since release and had yet to get a single piece maybe you could understand how OP is feeling. Being i110 or not far off, you can't really see where they are coming from.

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I know that feeling. Just that I had better luck in SCoB. In the first coil, although Myth was largely king for BRD but the Allagan Visor (T2, debatable BiS), Allagan Boots (T4), Allagan Choker (T4), Allagan Pants (T5) and Allagan Bow (T5) were my BiS. I only received my boots in December 2013, my choker in Feb 2014 and my Bow the very week right before patch 2.2. Nope I didn't get my visor nor the pants (I have to craft the i90 and pentameld it myself during 2.2 launch). Apart from the choker and boots, the other thing I got is the glove, so you can't say I geared up via coil. My ilvl went past i80 only in patch 2.1 because of increased myth and also EX primal accessory drops. I geared up largely via Myth, and you know Myth was a pain to get in 2.0 days.. I guess that's bad enough luck per se.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Yeah but...you have upgraded Rosenbogen, High Allagan belt, gloves, boots and bracelet, upgraded Bard chest with Sands, three upgrades accessories with Oils and Slaying earrings for an alt. You're hardly starved of gear lol. If you had been clearing it since release and had yet to get a single piece maybe you could understand how OP is feeling. Being i110 or not far off, you can't really see where they are coming from.

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She/he still had no drops 8 weeks in, its not about what they have NOW but how they dealt with it when it was happening to them. I was in the same boat, 8-9 weeks of SCOB clears and only 1 piece dropped which was a non bis accessory. It was a pain but I stayed patient until my luck started to get better with drops. Pretty sure once OP gets his it will change his mind completely. Just because you(collective) are not getting your way with drops doesn't mean the game should changed based on your experience, its a selfish outlook.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Learn to move on. I haven't receive any BRD loots for 8 striaght weeks. No threads created here just to say this lol.

The only way this can get better is SE changed from dropping direct loots to loot tokens instead. Then the raid can plan a token reeving order/priority and the player can exchange the token say with Rowena for any gear of their choice, except for weapons.

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1.23 proved that system is flawed in itself.

This system works better, albeit with the chance you may get nothing at all.

1.23 token drop-rates were PAINFUL.

Well you know: if every 8 of your group already have that one equip, that always seems to drop and you get it a 9th time... well... thats the time players go enrage mode and i can understand it... thats why we try to discuss that part with SE since 1.x... Before 2.0 was released it seemed SE understands, but... ... ... they done same shit again and so we continue to negotiate with them once again...

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Originally Posted by Shioban

1.23 proved that system is flawed in itself.

This system works better, albeit with the chance you may get nothing at all.

1.23 token drop-rates were PAINFUL.

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I haven't played 1.0 thou, but what I mean is that instead of 2 chests of 100% drop but what drop is 100% RNG, give out 2 100% drop tokens per turn. Let the raid decide who gets these tokens and exchange them for gear themselves. I don't mean RNG based token drop such as it may or may not drop, but 100% drop tokens rather than 100% drop random loots.

Indeed, mostly just me venting, and I actually feel a little better now. I shall continue my coil adventures as usual. :)

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

I haven't played 1.0 thou, but what I mean is that instead of 2 chests of 100% drop but what drop is 100% RNG, give out 2 100% drop tokens per turn. Let the raid decide who gets these tokens and exchange them for gear themselves. I don't mean RNG based token drop such as it may or may not drop, but 100% drop tokens rather than 100% drop random loots.

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That already happens in three turns. Oil, Sands and Tomes. Accessories, Armor and Weapons.

A "real" token system would have to drop rarely, or maybe just 1 drop per turn (and also divided into accessories/armor or even further. Maybe each turn will drop a random armor token or random accessory token, allowing you to buy THAT piece of gear..."oh look, its our 10th Belt Token, who's turn is it again?")

For the record, I had horrible luck in Coil1 with drops. Absolutely horrible (which is why I bought the entire Myth armor set despite running Coil as much as I possibly could...). Only really got gear I would use near the end of 2.1 or after 2.2. Worst part? I am a DRG, and everyone knows how much DRG gear dropped in Coil1...

My luck in Coil2? Not much better. 3 pieces of gear, last one dropping probably 6 or more weeks ago, and one of the three I have to replace once I actually get Sands...none of the BiS armor wants to drop for me at all.

As much as it sucks, it is RNG, and I have terrible luck with RNG. Keep getting told my luck will turn around, so far its only gotten worse...

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Originally Posted by Syhrwyb

My group and I clear turns 6 and 7 just as well as the next, but I never get anything. It's starting to make me think of just quitting coil altogether. Why should I bother to continue with the current lockout system?

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As it is your static group, why not distirbute loot to everyone fairly when some members are not happy with the loot. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Syhrwyb

My group and I clear turns 6 and 7 just as well as the next, but I never get anything. It's starting to make me think of just quitting coil altogether. Why should I bother to continue with the current lockout system?

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I couldn't agree more. It's annoying to be a slave to RNG, even more so when you can't continually to pull the handle on the slot machine. For Binding Coil, I farmed the whole thing for quite a long time before Second Coil came out, and never got most of my caster stuff until after they removed the lockout. In the last few weeks of Binding being relevant, my group REGULARLY saw drops that we had NEVER SEEN BEFORE. And we'd been clearing it for months. Good times. Such good times.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

That already happens in three turns. Oil, Sands and Tomes. Accessories, Armor and Weapons.

A "real" token system would have to drop rarely, or maybe just 1 drop per turn (and also divided into accessories/armor or even further. Maybe each turn will drop a random armor token or random accessory token, allowing you to buy THAT piece of gear..."oh look, its our 10th Belt Token, who's turn is it again?")

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Yup I mean just that, you refined it better for me. Since right now it drops 1x random armor and 1x random accessory, I think it should be fine that it be changed to 1x armor token and 1x accessory token, still at 100% rate. I don't think it is a game changer, but potentially a more fair system with the raid being able to negotiate and decide the priority order themselves.

I just think it is better. For example, I have done T8 this week and we are left with T9. I am the next to receive the next Sands. If you check my lodestone and my gear, what do I do with it? I am already i108 with only the Soldiery pants at i100. I could upgrade my weathered belt and replace my HA belt but of course some wouldn't really see it as any form of upgrade. I just get a few points more of crit and replaces skill speed with det. I could use it to upgrade my pants, but all bards would agree that the HA pants is better and BiS. Of course I could use it for alt jobs since I am pretty much "fat" enough as it is but I prefer to max out my main first.

So I guess all in all the token system I speak of seems better to me. It makes a fairer system via agreed distribution within the raid itself and also at the same time, the player have control over what they eventually get and want.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

So I guess all in all the token system I speak of seems better to me. It makes a fairer system via agreed distribution within the raid itself and also at the same time, the player have control over what they eventually get and want.

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It really isn't trust me.

The development team discussed this in the past, and when they mentioned it they said;

"It was a decision between 1.23's token systems or a Need/Greed system". No-one wants to go back to the days of doing Ifrit 200 times in the hope of getting a token.


And before you say "But they could refine the drop rate" they won't.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

It really isn't trust me.

The development team discussed this in the past, and when they mentioned it they said;

"It was a decision between 1.23's token systems or a Need/Greed system". No-one wants to go back to the days of doing Ifrit 200 times in the hope of getting a token.


And before you say "But they could refine the drop rate" they won't.

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Which I never mention that I suggested that the drop rate be RNG, my suggestion was to completely remove RNG from coil drops as I suggested that the token drop be 100% like UAT/oil/sands.

I think the UAT/oil/sands thing might be an attempt by SE to see if such system I spoke of (100% drop rate token system) will work between players themselves. I think the raids that I know of are doing fine with them. If you get more HA loot you don't get to get oil/sand that often probably and they be distributed to those with lesser HA drops.

Who knows, maybe SE might implement a full 100% drop token system someday? Unless SE is adamant on including RNG on every single thing in the game... then yeah. Which isn't a possibility though, since RNG exists in every game and SE seems to love them quite a handful.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Which I never mention that I suggested that the drop rate be RNG, my suggestion was to completely remove RNG from coil drops as I suggested that the token drop be 100% like UAT/oil/sands.

I think the UAT/oil/sands thing might be an attempt by SE to see if such system I spoke of (100% drop rate token system) will work between players themselves.
Who knows, maybe SE might implement a full 100% drop token system someday?

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That's exactly the point I'm making, they said they won't add in a 100% token drop system.

It'd either be a random token drop-rate, or a Need/Greed System.

The oil/sands were so people had an alternative way of obtaining gear other than relying on BCoB High Allagan drops, which was highly requested.

Unless they've had a change of heart since they last mention it a year or so ago, I'd dare-say they aren't likely to have changed their opinion on it much.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Actually. People wanted an alt way of obtaining gear other than coil - yes. But Oil and Sands are gated behind coil and that was counter productive. Pre 2.2 the answer was myth gears which are of the same ilvl, but Soldiery wasn't. Sands and Oil are only offered outside coil in 2.3 onwards via Hunts and CT2.

But well, if they insist on adding RNG, that's fine since that's what we have been doing for close to a year anyways. Doesn't really affect me since I clear coil so I have access to them, but for those who can't, that's another story.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Doesn't really affect me since I clear coil so I have access to them, but for those who can't, that's another story.

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The idea really was that, seeing as BCoB is the only end-game content, the only way to obtain them (originally) was via BCoB.

This came up for discussion during 2.0 and 2.1 "Can we obtain Allagan ilevel equivilant gear outside coil please". And almost everyone in those threads pointed out the obvious "That gear is designed to be used to BCoB, so it makes sense to obtain it from BCoB".


There are A LOT of people expecting to get 'raid-equivalent' gear without ever touching a raid, which is pointless because that's what the gear is mostly intended to be used for.



But that's slightly veering off topic.

Cheer up man

You will get it

I used to be not able to get anything in 4-5 weeks before, I understand your feeling ... be patient with your group, they not gonna leave you alone!

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Originally Posted by Shioban

That's exactly the point I'm making, they said they won't add in a 100% token drop system.

It'd either be a random token drop-rate, or a Need/Greed System.

The oil/sands were so people had an alternative way of obtaining gear other than relying on BCoB High Allagan drops, which was highly requested.

Unless they've had a change of heart since they last mention it a year or so ago, I'd dare-say they aren't likely to have changed their opinion on it much.

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Actually. People wanted an alt way of obtaining gear other than coil - yes. But Oil and Sands are gated behind coil and that was counter productive. Pre 2.2 the answer was myth gears which are of the same ilvl, but Soldiery wasn't. Sands and Oil are only offered outside coil in 2.3 onwards via Hunts and CT2.

But well, if they insist on adding RNG, that's fine since that's what we have been doing for close to a year anyways. Doesn't really affect me since I clear coil so I have access to them, but for those who can't, that's another story.

Personally I been trying to get the hands and legs from coil for quite awhile now. Haven't got any drops in the past few weeks for my main. RNG is RNG though it just happens.

Keep doing it and you'll eventually get lucky. Took me about 7 weeks before I saw a drop.

I hope Brutal mode will have the lockout, same gear, different color. "Normal" Coil only will have the loot lockout (like CT was). Maybe everyone will be happy.

Oh no wait... people would want the different color loot too and make excuses how brutal Coil should not have a lockout. We'll have 2 groups always: people who agree and people who don't. Let's move on.

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Originally Posted by Lothar808

If you haven't gotten anything from coil and your group can down T7/T8 you should really workout how everyone rolls on the tombstone and oil/sand... With a dedicated drop rate, you guys should be fair and take turns rolling on those items. Our static did it this way: People who get the tombstone are people without T5 weapon or animus > people without animus > people with animus. Once you clear T8 it will be the same if people already have novus. As for the oil/sand... if you get it once, you have to wait until everyone else gets one before you can roll again. This will probably be the same setup until we can clear t9. Not saying this is perfect but it works. Oh and if a person gets an actual item drop from T7/T8... they cant roll on the oil/sand for that run either.

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That's pretty much how we do things also, so lewt gets spread around the raid more.

Just that this week we had 100% caster DPS drops >.<

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

I hope Brutal mode will have the lockout, same gear, different color. "Normal" Coil only will have the loot lockout (like CT was). Maybe everyone will be happy.

Oh no wait... people would want the different color loot too and make excuses how brutal Coil should not have a lockout. We'll have 2 groups always: people who agree and people who don't. Let's move on.

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Brutal coil will be on the same lockout as second coil. So if you clear turn 6 in brutal, you can't redo normal t6. Also drops will be exactly the same. Thye are doing it this time as a test to see if it is worth to continue adding brutal modes. If it turns oiut positive Yoshi said they will add different sets for later brutal mode fights.

Let's hope for the best then!

i think worse than not getting anything is getting the same items two weeks in a row or getting stuff that absolutely nobody needs or wants.

"drg gear drops......nobody plays drg in my group." awesome.

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Originally Posted by madolyn

i think worse than not getting anything is getting the same items two weeks in a row or getting stuff that absolutely nobody needs or wants.

"drg gear drops......nobody plays drg in my group." awesome.

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My group had 4x Tank head in a row once, and we have seen 4x tank boots. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

My group had 4x Tank head in a row once, and we have seen 4x tank boots. LOL.

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6 Axes from Twin in first group and another 3 in a second group in a row, back when it still had a lockout. And not a single Mnk or Smn weapon from 2.0 till 2.2.
Gotta live with the fact that RNGeezuz hates you.