{future} release Brutal at the same time

I know plenty of people, myself included, unfortunately displeased with "Glamour Tower" not qualifying as 'legitimate' end-game content.

People deep in the Second Coil have practically no purpose for CT2. Sands & Oils are a good step but they aren't even being included for a while. Further reducing CT2's usefulness for active raiders.

Ofc, this will require 24-man queuing or it'd be a disaster. But I think this the right approach for the future.

As well, it should have the same gear rewards but in different colors to distinguish them, in addition to the achievement title.

Even better, if Brutal's receive an ilvl sync so they're utterly skill-based for the challenge aspect.

I like to play games to have fun...

CT2 is still going to be fun. What messed up was CT1 not being ready at launch,but they released Coils ahead of time. So, people geared up in iLvl 90 gear prior to CT. However, remember we have new players joining us every month so they'll progress a lot different from those that cleared Coils 1 first.

They already said they would focus one patch for CT (casual) and one patch for coil (hardcore), your turn is over, sit back and let the other group enjoy some content, your third coil will come next.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

I like to play games to have fun...

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Not saying I don't.

But it's not very fun (imo) steam-rolling brand new content in short order.

Some people have fun being challenged.

Many of us were wearing full i90 when the i70 drop dungeons launched... that's the only 4-man content we've had.

The new dungeons are meant to be be of comparable difficulty, now we're in full i100+.

What they need to do is make a server super hard, that way all these players who want super hard can move there.

Problem is you'll see them leave the server cause they cant handle it all the time.

Sounds familiar, SOA rings a bell same people even Square Enix said the content was made for Elites and wanna know what the elites did whine it was too hard and SOA was empty for a long time till they fixed it.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

They already said they would focus one patch for CT (casual) and one patch for coil (hardcore), your turn is over...

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That doesn't mean we can't request that change.

If the schedule remains as-is, pre-raiders will always have fresh, relevant content while end-gamers will wait just over 6 month's in between end-game releases.

Sure there are other things to enjoy, but I want to enjoy new casual group content beyond the first couple times when we've learned it well enough to steam-roll on autopilot with ease (being grossly overgeared for it to begin with).

I'm not asking they don't release CT2, I'm asking they release it's Brutal Mode at the same time.

I also know CT releasing late messed it up. So why not simply rectify that... one cycle alteration, even a minor one, could solve it.

Or simply release the Brutal Mode simultaneous to the original release.

The bosses/environs/gear have all been designed. I can't imagine it would require much more effort at all to amp the difficulty some.

Especially if they set an ilvl sync, making it much more simple a task to fine-tune the difficulty to their liking.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

I also know CT releasing late messed it up. So why not simply rectify that... one cycle alteration, even a minor one, could solve it.

Or simply release the Brutal Mode simultaneous to the original release.

The bosses/environs/gear have all been designed. I can't imagine it would require much more effort at all to amp the difficulty some.

Especially if they set an ilvl sync, making it much more simple a task to fine-tune the difficulty to their liking.

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This wasn't the issue though...

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

I know plenty of people, myself included, unfortunately displeased with "Glamour Tower" not qualifying as 'legitimate' end-game content.

People deep in the Second Coil have practically no purpose for CT2. Sands & Oils are a good step but they aren't even being included for a while. Further reducing CT2's usefulness for active raiders.

Ofc, this will require 24-man queuing or it'd be a disaster. But I think this the right approach for the future.

As well, it should reward gear of a different color or sheen, in addition to the achievement title.

Even better, if Brutal's receive an ilvl sync so they're utterly skill-based for the challenge aspect.

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You're not playing the game to have fun, you just want better gear. [sarcasm]Which in that case, they are doing this just to spite you personally.[/sarcasm] As I said before, some people play to have fun. New content doesn't need to award gear. How are you going to even judge the difficulty of content you haven't even played? Even in higher lvl gear people were still doing 3-4 wipes per run of CT for the first couple of months.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Snip

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Please don't blatantly ignore my reply again. Yes, people play to have fun, myself included. I said my v. of fun involves being challenged. I don't consider content that can be easily steamrolled after a brief introduction to the mechanics much fun.

All I'm asking for is difficult content that coincides with end-game to be released at a better cadence. Rather than many end-gamers beating t9 in a month's time, then having no further challenge left to them, & leaving them with 5 months of easier content or identical, harder content.

Brutal Coil sounds like a nice touch, but it's the same encounters albeit possibly more mechanically difficult.

If CT2 launched with its Brutal v., that would be a lot more fun to be challenged with. Or if an Extreme Mode 4-man were released alongside 2 HM's instead of the current 3 equivalent 4-man pattern.

Something more for end-gamer's who derive fun from challenge each patch cycle that is fresh.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

-snip-

Something more for end-gamer's who derive fun from challenge each patch cycle that is fresh.

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Oh, a challenge eh? Welp how about purposefully stripping down to i45 - 50 gear, just barely at CT ilevel reqs and playing that way? The only reason its not challenging to you (as you pointed out) is because you grossly overgear it. So sync your ilvl down and try it that way. You could even do it in Coils for fun. See how low you can get your ilvls and still be able to clear it.

The devs aren't required to do EVERYTHING for you.

i agree there should be something for hardcores each patch. or increase the amount of turn bosses we get during coil patches. 4 small rooms and tunels and 4 bosses every six months (more actualy since we have delays) is just patheticaly low.

with this patch alone the casual crowd is geting 3 new dungeons with about 9 new bosses, a whole new raid with again about 6 new bosses (going of how many ct had might be more), another extra boss ramuh. So that brings us to 16 bosses for casuals and 1 (ramuh extreme) for hardcores.
last patch the hardcores got 6 bosses (coils + levi ex + mog ex) while casual crowd got at least double that yet again, eventho some of you claim that was our big hardcore patch!

tell me again how this is in any way shape or form fair?

Just my opinion, but for the game to be successful, the developers must appeal to the majority. Hard core players are not the majority.

There will be challenges catered toward hard core players, but expecting a patch dedicated to hard core players will only lead to disappointment.

It wouldn't be possible yet because there is no alliance system in the game.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Oh, a challenge eh? Welp how about purposefully stripping down to i45 - 50 gear...
...the devs aren't required to do EVERYTHING for you.

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Your words... they pretend like I'm acting self-entitled or something. Making a humble request here. Also, I think it would benefit the game.

Problem with me stripping down to i45-50 gear is I can't force people to, on occasion I can get friends to for certain content but to many it feels too much a hassle.

Doing it myself is no fun, also you run into the issue of accuracy-gating making raid encounters near impossible to have a full group hard-desync.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

...expecting a patch dedicated to hard core players...

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I don't understand these assumptions or words being put into my mouth.

I'm not expecting ANY patch dedicated to hardcore...

I'm asking for one simple, almost entirely identical addition for hardcore players to coincide with the myriad/plethora of casual content.

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Originally Posted by Holyhunter

It wouldn't be possible yet because there is no alliance system in the game.

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Says so in the OP, "...this will require 24-man queuing or it'd be a disaster".

Sigh.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

I don't understand these assumptions or words being put into my mouth.

I'm not expecting ANY patch dedicated to hardcore...

I'm asking for one simple, almost entirely identical addition for hardcore players to coincide with the myriad/plethora of casual content.

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Please don't assume I'm putting words in your mouth. My post was not addressed to you, but to the poster above me.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

Please don't assume I'm putting words in your mouth. My post was not addressed to you, but to the poster above me.

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It's natural to assume a post is in reply to the OP when the quote/reply function isn't used.

My bad! Glad to know though, thanks.

more content is welcome

and why do people assumed that the hardcore/progression crowd don't ever do casual content? or vice versa with casual crowd doing progression content? If we can have yoshi and team release more content each patch ( hard & easy content simultaneously instead of this staggering fashion) isn't that beneficial to everyone playing?

that is what OP is asking for.

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Originally Posted by razzgrizz3

with this patch alone the casual crowd is geting 3 new dungeons with about 9 new bosses, a whole new raid with again about 6 new bosses (going of how many ct had might be more), another extra boss ramuh. So that brings us to 16 bosses for casuals and 1 (ramuh extreme) for hardcores.
last patch the hardcores got 6 bosses (coils + levi ex + mog ex) while casual crowd got at least double that yet again, eventho some of you claim that was our big hardcore patch!

tell me again how this is in any way shape or form fair?

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Because the percentage of hardcore raiders is significantly less then the rest of the game's player base and that the raiders are doing the same content as well as raiding there meaning they are actively using all the content while casual players are using some to most of it.

Off topic but is Brutal Coil coming in 2.3?

I really don't see the reason for hate here. They're asking for an additional mode, without "better" loot. It's just an additional, optional, mode that will leave CT as is for everyone else but the people that want the challenge. As long as SE doesn't lock future content behind clearing it there shouldn't be an issue. It's more content, which will give more people things to enjoy. How can that really be a bad thing? It's not like people like me, someone who's heavily on the casual side of things, even has to deal with it unless I want to.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

Because the percentage of hardcore raiders is significantly less then the rest of the game's player base and that the raiders are doing the same content as well as raiding there meaning they are actively using all the content while casual players are using some to most of it.

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And it's getting smaller all the time... :/

I'm a casual who looks up to those guys who can see a new challenge and bring it down due to skill. I kind of think swapping a 'casual' patch for a 'hardcore' patch to reset the pace of updates would be a good idea. It IS weird to have the lesser stuff, the 'half step' if you will, come AFTER the challenging stuff. We all know CT was supposed to come before Coil, but it didn't. So now it seems the CT updates are regressive. I think it would be nice if they could swap a new Coil for a new bit of CT in a patch. All other update stuff could stay the same. I'm casual, I don't mind waiting a bit.

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Originally Posted by Sadana

And it's getting smaller all the time... :/

I'm a casual who looks up to those guys who can see a new challenge and bring it down due to skill. I kind of think swapping a 'casual' patch for a 'hardcore' patch to reset the pace of updates would be a good idea. It IS weird to have the lesser stuff, the 'half step' if you will, come AFTER the challenging stuff. We all know CT was supposed to come before Coil, but it didn't. So now it seems the CT updates are regressive. I think it would be nice if they could swap a new Coil for a new bit of CT in a patch. All other update stuff could stay the same. I'm casual, I don't mind waiting a bit.

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As a progression raider I prefer that CT "Stepping Stone" comes after.

It means that when new content is released it's tougher because our gear is worse. T6 burns and T8 would have never been a problem if CT2 had come out first.

CT gear stepping stone and tomestone gear, is like an invisible echo buff. It helps people cross the boundaries where their own skill cannot carry them.

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Originally Posted by razzgrizz3

i agree there should be something for hardcores each patch. or increase the amount of turn bosses we get during coil patches. 4 small rooms and tunels and 4 bosses every six months (more actualy since we have delays) is just patheticaly low.
...snip

tell me again how this is in any way shape or form fair?

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Well 2 people already covered but there are far less people doing coil, especially coil 2, than there will be doing ct2 or the new dungeons. Its a very small percentage of people doing coil 2 and even less clearing turn 9. There are less now doing turn 2 than there were doing turn 1 and there will be even less doing turn 3 than currently doing turn 2. At this point its a waste of time for the devs to even focus on hardcore at all. Thats just not what the FF playerbase wants for the most part.

Casual.
Hardcore.
Casual.
Hardcore.
Casual...

They've already said this is how they are going to do the patches. One to cater to the hardcore with tough endgame content (New Coil.) Then the next will cater to the more casual group (CT.) You're complaining you will have nothing to do before you've even tried it, you have no idea how hard Ramuh EX or CT will actually be. Well for the last three months or so the casuals really have had nothing to do. If you aren't on Second Coil yet and can't do EXs then other than Hildebrand there wasn't much for them last patch. Now the shoe is on the other foot you're getting your panties in a bunch because every patch isn't focussed on you and solely you alone.

I think you just have serious entitlement issues.

P.S. My use of the terms "hardcore" and "casual" was just a generalisation in terms of the topic of the thread. I know there are lots of exceptions and people in between.

It wouldn't take that much effort to develop whatsoever.

Take the example of SCOB Brutal, they said it's the uncut version, raw difficulty.

Meaning, they had to do next-to-nothing more to release it.

If they wanted not to do uncut with all Brutal's, it still wouldn't require 'much' work.

Bosses. Done. Gear. Made. Environment. Finished.

Tweak some mechanics, up some stats, drop in a few extra mobs.

GG.

It's not asking much honestly.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

You're complaining you will have nothing to do before you've even tried it.

I think you just have serious entitlement issues.

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Never once did I say I will have nothing to do.

And as I've said previously, just because the patch cycle is that way, doesn't mean we can't request alterations or that it wouldn't be better changed.

Requesting one bonus add-on be implemented in the casual cycle so 'hard-cores' aren't waiting 5 months for a new challenge to beat, it's not asking for much.

Casuals get plenty that caters to their interests in the hardcore patches too (and yes, I know there is much hard-cores can enjoy in the casual cycle also).

I'm speaking directly about those who enjoy a good CHALLENGE.

I'm generally disinterested in CT2 & 4-man's because it's quite obvious they won't be very difficult, especially for someone who's beat t9 and is wearing i110. Yoshi has gone on record to say both CT2 & the new 4-man's will be roughly on-par with the difficulty of their predecessors (paraphrase).

As before, SCOB Brutal is a good addition, but it's not fresh content (arguably, per se). I think a better solution would be to simultaneously implement the new casual content in a format challenge-seekers can better enjoy.

As well, I don't appreciate the disrespect in your post.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

snip.

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It's irrelevant how much effort it would or wouldn't take (I don't know about that side of things as I'm not an expert like you.) The point is that ever since before the first patch they have been very clear about where their priorities lie regarding progress and the alternating direction of each patch. You're asking them to make last minute adjustments to their long term plan simply to satisfy you. You can take it as disrespect all you want, but if that isn't self entitled I don't know what is.

If I remember correctly the brutal mode is for T1-T5 not the ScoB which is T6-T9 and as some people have said wear lower ilvl gear if you want some challenge back even if you know what to do, the lower gear will take you longer to kill the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Zozor

Off topic but is Brutal Coil coming in 2.3?

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Correct.

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Originally Posted by Hollow_Tears

If I remember correctly the brutal mode is for T1-T5 not the ScoB which is T6-T9 and as some people have said wear lower ilvl gear if you want some challenge back even if you know what to do, the lower gear will take you longer to kill the enemy.

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Incorrect. It's for SCOB.

I addressed that point in a previous posting.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

It's irrelevant how much effort it would or wouldn't take (I don't know about that side of things as I'm not an expert like you.) The point is that ever since before the first patch they have been very clear about where their priorities lie regarding progress and the alternating direction of each patch. You're asking them to make last minute adjustments to their long term plan simply to satisfy you. You can take it as disrespect all you want, but if that isn't self entitled I don't know what is.

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"I'm not an expert like you," you're seriously telling me that kind of talk isn't disrespectful?

Anyway, adding one small thing for challenge-seekers doesn't mean it's no longer primarily a "casual" patch.

The "hardcore" patches generally still have plenty for casuals also (sure, both can enjoy this content).

And for the last time, just because they've been clear about their patch-cycle intentions doesn't mean we can't request minor alterations (and yet again, a single inclusion doesn't necessarily mean it's no longer a casually-themed patch).

I think it makes sense to have CT after Coil. If you can't beat Coil before the next patch, you get more choice in gear that could help you. And with the oil/sands/tome (whatever drops in CT) it will be another little step to make Coil slightly easier with ilvl110 equipment you wouldn't found anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Oh, a challenge eh? Welp how about purposefully stripping down

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Artificial difficulty =/= challenge. That's why people do 3 heart runs in Zelda games - not because they're "skilled" but because it makes things tougher artificially (pretty much everything end-game will one shot you.)

Then what did I read in a live letter that said brutal mode is the original content before they buffed/nerfed it and where does it say ScoB got nerfed and that they are releasing a harder version of it.

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Originally Posted by Hollow_Tears

Then what did I read in a live letter that said brutal mode is the original content before they buffed/nerfed it and where does it say ScoB got nerfed and that they are releasing a harder version of it.

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When they mentioned the Brutal mode is the pre-nerf version, they were referring to the developmental nerf (pre-release). Basically they built fights with all kinds of mechanics, then as they tested the fights they would throw in indicators and ques to make the fight more manageable.

It was mentioned somewhere that the Brutal version is going T6-T9 when they were talking about the requirements/lock-outs for the mode.

Update: Found it!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The “Brutal” version of the Second Coil of Bahamut turns will share the same clear flags as the regular version, so clearing it will count towards your progress for the week. Also, if you cannot clear the brutal version of turn 1, for example, you’ll be able to leave and try the regular version. The rewards will be the same and this content is only there for the bravest to test their might. :)

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Now that I re-read this, it does not actually imply that T1-T5 for Brutal will not exist, only that 6-9 will have a lockout included.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

I like to play games to have fun...

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So do I and you know what isn't fun? Beating up 3 year olds. If you have fun in 0 challenge fights more power to you.

Thank you for clarifying it for me Codek I stand corrected on those parts.