Dear god increase the autoattack speed of marauder..

Its like one attack every 5 seconds...

we go from DD to "that moron that stands in place looking at the sky till he remembers he has to attack".

Unfortunately i agree. MRD is dead right now...you just stay there and watch real DD fighting now...today i went to help a friend with Kokoroon...God lofd i never felt so depressed with a class as i did this time...as PLG the dude raped Kokoroon while i just watched it...also, Heavy swing seems to be with broken accuracy...not only its not even close to worth using due the completely retard recast time but it also miss almost every time.

Now i cannot DD, cannot tank (since MRd tanking idea was based on FFXI's WAR idea, where the enmity come from DPS instead of skills), cannot fight multiple monsters anymore...hell...i cannot even store TP anymore...Maim is just a myth now since we cannot store 3k TP before stuff is dead anymore...

My hope is that Matsui notice the size of the s*** he did and fix MRD. If we can have Heavy swing recast down to 2~5 sec (use MP is needed...i'd even pay the action usage with HP if needed! But MRD NEEDS heavy swing fast and useful!) it would bring MRD back to business...even if heavy swing could only be used with steadfast up...i don't care about the restrictions...i just want it FAST and RELIABLE again so i can resume doing my role in parties! >_<

I agree :/ the attack speed is way too slow for me now.

I'm having way more fun on ARC than MRD atm and I really liked MRD. Delay needs to be reduced and accuracy of heavy strike needs to be increased. The one saving grace they did is Storm's Path. It seems like the WS can do much more damage than wide Volley 2, it really is a great improvement.

Im about to go on a raptors party... Im gonna fall sleep midway through...or rather Im gonna feel like Im leeching because I CANT DO ANYTHING.

Mrd is touted as the slow, some what clumsy but dear god mommy make the bad man stop hurting me when it connects class. Well they have managed to keep the first two in place, just waiting on the third part to come to pass. With broad and heavy swing sitting on 30 seconds and full sitting at 60 its harder to spread the axe love to the masses. I mean hell man that's been our niche for a while now. to keep the brandishes and storms paths rolling like they need to be in the dungeons i have keep cramming invigorate like im expecting cheese to pop out of my pc because of it.

The thing that i really find funny they managed to keep full swing just as useless as it was before. Hell might have made it worse, i didn't think that was possible. Ah well Drink up me mates, Least storms path is worth two squats now that counts for something right?

Well, i'm bothering them since patch asking MRD basic attacks (not AA) to be lowered to 2 seconds recast in exchange of heavy sction slot cost (like 5~7 action slot cost) and reseting AA delay every time they're used (so if you fight manually then you will never have AA swings popping)....because MRD base was its basic attacks...if you can't DD properly with heavy swing, if you can't AoE melee with the cone basic attacks then the class can do nothing.

My suggestion was:

Broad Swing having the very same recast AA does, just like ARC's light shot, being based on weapon delay.
Heavy Swing having 2 seconds delay, eating 20HP/swing and having heavy action cost
Full Swing having 2 seconds delay, heavy action cost and being only usable during steadfast.

Because its not fair what they did to MRD! Feel free to "like" it if you agree to this suggestion or post another suggestions....because right now only ARC, who wasn't really affected by AA, can fight properly in this game and the poor MRD, who was based on basic attacks, is pretty much dead now.

Let's show SE we prefer the frenzy berserker it once was instead of the current aphatic, daydreamer party burden it became!

4s is ok.
They increased the damages and slowered the delay of the hit. I think it's balanced atm.
Also TP gained by a single hit are increased too.

Its really not....i can't enjoy Marauder anymore as i used too.... :/ im major disappoint with the attack speed changes.. and the new mp cost of cure spells ; ;

Other than that im completely fine with everything in the patch X_X

Try looking for a party for Darkhold as a marauder lol. Your the class that fills the 8th spot when they cant wait for another archer or mage to show up. Its really depressing being a marauder now. Thats the general consensus right now though I do disagree somewhat. I think if you are going to take a melee you might as well take MRD. We have the highest HP by quite a bit and with bloodbath II with other heals we are the best melee for self healing. And even if we are out DPS'd I dont think its by much if at all.

And with attack speed on weapons now they managed to make the Barbarians Bardiche even more useless by giving the engraved bhuj a faster attack speed. Such a waste to get 2 nm drops when you can get a +3 engraved bhuj for fairly cheap in the wards. I was really hoping they would make the NM weapons the best by giving them the fastest attack speed but chalk it up as another dumb decision.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

My suggestion was:

Broad Swing having the very same recast AA does, just like ARC's light shot, being based on weapon delay.

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This i can really dig. Would go a step further though. perhaps they could add in modifiers as a tuning knob. And not just for mrd, For all the classes. say they could set it up so it was weapon delay*x=recast. say Broad swing would have a x4 time modifyer. Bardiche class axe you would be looking at a 16.8 second recast on broad. ect

Of course this would be assuming that weapons of the same type would retain a constant delay. Could work out might not, dont know but its something.

I played MRD for the firs time today, and 4sec. was fine. Far better than ffxi's great axe.

I think players are too used to the old combat system because of it's speed, and now that we are in reasonable AA speed, people are going to need time to get used to it.

u played mrd a bit <.< try mobs 10+ levels from u, tp generation is slow, damage is low, mrd's murderous intent is seriously useless atm, so are broad (a bit more usefull) and full swing... we've gotten a skill improvement but honestly even a gla can stand a mrd's dmg atm- devs said that classes would be unbalanced till algorithm correction, wonder why the only class not showed in AA video was marauder lol

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Originally Posted by Syon

u played mrd a bit <.< try mobs 10+ levels from u, tp generation is slow, damage is low, mrd's murderous intent is seriously useless atm, so are broad (a bit more usefull) and full swing... we've gotten a skill improvement but honestly even a gla can stand a mrd's dmg atm- devs said that classes would be unbalanced till algorithm correction, wonder why the only class not showed in AA video was marauder lol

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I'm not talking about attack damage, or the current balance involving the algorithm, which neither are complete. Even by the developers say-so, these things would be incomplete until further adjustments were made in the future patch releases. I'm referring to attack speed, which at the current moment, is solid. It works, it's not too slow, and when the adjustments are made to the before mentioned variables we will see the system the way it is meant to be seen in whole. Obviously people will complain until that time, but I'm not one to look at a painting until it's complete either.

well, yeh, i agree then, 4 seconds is fine if attk and tps are well balanced... just hope that these things get fixed well in 1.19

Ifyou are asking for the reduced delay, then I ask for the same on PUG, as it's only a second difference..

for glad i equipped heavy stab to try and build tp faster, i was blown away by the 60 second timer on. just give me my marks back SE.

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Originally Posted by MattyWS

Ifyou are asking for the reduced delay, then I ask for the same on PUG, as it's only a second difference..

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I did ask it for PGL. I am PGL too after all. However, since PGL already has a TP build basic action and a very low delay, the changes for PGL i asked were a bit different. I asked Light Strike buff to last 30 seconds (so we can keep the effect up full time, like originaly was) and Flurry to have 2 seconds delay but being only usable with Featherfoot up.

And about AA, i wish it was 1 second difference...its 2.5 for PGL and 4~4.5 for MRD. PGL is nearly 2x faster than MRD...same works for LNC, that has 3.5 delay but has Speed Surge. PGL nd LNC can deal pretty well with the AA annoyance since they're fast and have TP generator actions.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

for glad i equipped heavy stab to try and build tp faster, i was blown away by the 60 second timer on. just give me my marks back SE.

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No kidding >< i have heavy slash and stab...once i saw the recast the first thing i did was to remove both from my macros :/ I don't understand why we can't have a half term regarding battle...SE is being way too radical with the changes instead of trying to balance the old system with the new one. I can understand some recast times, like light strike, multishot or the TP generator basic actions...but the recast of the majority of them just turned the basic attacks useless.

Ya, I don't really see an issue with the attack speed of marauder as it stands now, by class quest 30 you have 3 active abilities that you can use to build tp, one ona 30 sec recast and 2 on a 60 second. two of them are AOE's so basically a marauder's strength comes from it's ability to attack a wide range of mobs, Is you use the no tp AOE moves you can boost your TP up quite a bit, then you just keep following up with more AOE moves and they can be quite devastating.

If I had a recommendation for Mar it would be to add another concept to them. Since they have a good bit of tank oriented abilities to them i think SE should add a damage meter that rises as they take damage. It would in a sense be a secondary TP like requirement for abilities but of course it would be based on the dmg you take. Think of it as adrenaline building up during a fight. One basic ability that comes to mind would be at 100% dmg meter you would be able to convert the meter to restore 25% of max HP. Then things like "Inner Rage" 25% Raise attack speed but lower defense, "Tense up" 50% increase defense but decrease attack speed. "Revenge" 75% 10 second duration, Deal damage to foe based on own defense ignoring target's defense, recast 5 mins.

But ya I just think it comes down to each class needing more varieties, since mar does have a lot of tank abilities but since they don't have a shield people auto-think Glad onry for tanking. I mean I still have to test things since I haven't even tried Glad or any other melee class but I do enjoy how marauder is, it just needs slight tweaks to increase it's options and be at least a viable tank that could replace gladiators. Granted it does sound odd but perhaps a good replacement for the lack of a shield they could have "shoulder pads" that act as the shield for marauder tanks which would take up the offhand slot for their class.

Though i do think it's safe to say they are going down the right path atm, while it may take time they are doing a decent job with balancing especially considering how they changed the way battles are now. It may take 1 or 2 VU but I do believe the team has the ability to properly balance all the classes.

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On another note I don't think it's very logical to get rid of the 30/60 second no tp active abilities. instead of thinking of them for their long recast, think of it as an additional attack to gain some TP during a fight, least that's how I use it, if I'm in need of TP but my attack missed I"ll use my secondary attack in hopes it doesn't miss so I can gain some TP. For Marauder's 2 AOE abilities that use no TP it's a great way to increase your TP when you are going against a bunch of mobs.

Its fine , I think MRD's are OP enough as it is

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Originally Posted by Lienn

...Maim is just a myth now since we cannot store 3k TP before stuff is dead anymore...

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Maim seriously needs to be reduced to 1k tp. The dmg isn't that good and your party can't even take advantage of the debuff because things ar 95% dead by the time you finally get to even use it. Assuming you don't miss. Storms path spam is pretty epic now so at least we have that.

Just as an added side note, if you want another way to increase your TP (best used at the start of a battle but can be included at any point):

Throwing Axes.
8D

They're a little ridiculous, don't have great dmg, don't have great range and generally only seem useful for pulling if you don't want to use an ability. However they do have some small perks that you just have to think outside the box for.
They can make the difference between being able to use Brandish II or Storm's Path at a crucial time when you need that extra power. Just throw one at the enemy, get a boost of TP and a bit of hate too if you want it. If you're under Invigorate then you'll appreciate it!

That and it's hilarious to see the random PT you're with suddenly say 'WTFlulz did you just throw a rock' until they understand why. =P
You don't see enough, if any, MRDs using Throwing Axes except for when they might be pulling.
I don't think I've seen any MRDs on my server using them except for myself. I could be wrong and many MRDs do and I just haven't seen it. I didn't use them before the patch but now that TP can be hard to come by for MRD they seem perfect for the role. Give them a try!

EDIT: I'd just like to add that I don't struggle for TP too much myself except either when Broad/Full/Heavy swing are on cool down and I'm rushing through single mobs, which is when I might use a throwing axe. I'm just giving other people ideas.

Are you kidding me? I'm having a blast right now as Marauder in Darkhold. When you attack a group of mobs with broad and full swing you get insane amounts of tp. You can use Storm's Path and Brandish II almost instantly. Marauder is the king when it comes to multimob tanking just through plain damage! Hell for that Ogre you're even better off having a Marauder tank!

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Originally Posted by lunardemon

Its fine , I think MRD's are OP enough as it is

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I'm not sure if i laugh or if i cry after reading it....

Just take your sarcasm elsewhere, dude...this is supposed to be a serious topic discussing a class with some tremendous performance problems since patch.

@Narctiss: Man i've been seriously thinking about it...even though Throwing axes have 5 sec delay, it skips some of the major problems MRD has regarding AA because you keep the auto orientation, not having the problem of mob just walking out and making you skip an AA swing.

The problem is that here the TP generation is based on damage dealt or TP generation actions...so when you need the TP the more (big bosses aand NMs) the franciscas won't be able to help due their low damage.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Are you kidding me? I'm having a blast right now as Marauder in Darkhold. When you attack a group of mobs with broad and full swing you get insane amounts of tp. You can use Storm's Path and Brandish II almost instantly. Marauder is the king when it comes to multimob tanking just through plain damage! Hell for that Ogre you're even better off having a Marauder tank!

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didnt you used to be able to do that before..... but very often? and what helps them tank ogre better than the guy with the sheild?

guy with a shield that can't block his attacks;

Stamina got in the way of fullswing and broadswing

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Originally Posted by Physic

didnt you used to be able to do that before..... but very often? and what helps them tank ogre better than the guy with the sheild?

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THIS is my point! The change destroyed the main pillar MRD were built over...the capacity of fighting multiple monsters at same time. Now you pop 1 AoE swing like any other class...MRD lost its specializations but received nothing that help him keep up with single target melees.

With this patch i started thinking this game really will become FFXI again...where you might have 20 jobs, but for serious business like 3~4 only are allowed and the rest will just be a burden.

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1 AoE swing like any other class...

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Other melee classes don't have regular aoe tp gaining swings.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

guy with a shield that can't block his attacks;

Stamina got in the way of fullswing and broadswing

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true mrd does get a parry advantage ( i think, since the effect of being still is hidden), as for the broad swing stamina issue, i have to disagree, i could do it way more often than once per 30 or 60 seconds before, and i did on the occaisons where hitting mulri mobs wasnt killing sp.

@Lienn
Very true about the larger bosses/NMs. I have come into trouble with that. Especially when up against Ogre (DD) and I'm somewhat short of Leg Sweep to stop his Inferno Drop. I still haven't found a solution to that aside 'hoping for the best' with Invigorate, basic swings and careful usage. I really don't think there is anything more that can be done about it.
MRD can tank but not as well as GLA so it doesn't get the build up of TP from taking hits either in those fights.
(Just giving the Leg Sweep as an example. I'm fully aware that for a DD it's much safer to run out of the AoE than to try and stop his attack. I just couldn't think of a better example that's something people talk about right now).

So while I suggest the Throwing Axes as a way to grab some TP when you need it in normal fights, I hope they still address it and make it somewhat better so MRDs can keep up with other classes. Try the axes out anyway as you don't really have much to lose by equipping one new thing. =)

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Other melee classes don't have regular aoe tp gaining swings.

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lnc got peirce, but they do only have 1, while you get 2. but then again lnc can get tp really fast with invig speed surge, and lower AA speed, and they can rock out on heavy trammel doompike, and skewer while still being able to move.

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MRD can tank but not as well as GLA so it doesn't get the build up of TP from taking hits either in those fights.

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Lies Marauder has more emnity, higher health and stronger Defender 2. When the Ogre starts with his flame hands, there is almost nothing you can block. The few things you can block you can parry with Foresight and Featherfoot.

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lnc got peirce, but they do only have 1, while you get 2. but then again lnc can get tp really fast with invig speed surge, and lower AA speed, and they can rock out on heavy trammel doompike, and skewer while still being able to move.

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Yeah only you're hitting far less mobs while trying to line up the mobs. Lnc is amazing for single/duo target, but it doesn't compete with mass aoeing or sticking hate yourself.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Lies Marauder has more emnity, higher health and stronger Defender 2. When the Ogre starts with his flame hands, there is almost nothing you can block. The few things you can block you can parry with Foresight and Featherfoot.

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'Lies'? That's not very nice. =P

I should have made it clearer then.
In my -opinion-, GLA can tank better than MRD.
While I agree with what you say about how MRD can be a great tank I also know that GLA + shield, high VIT and the correct gear (accessories included) has a large amount of HP, a great defense, can hold hate (dealing dmg faster, first hits, letting hate settle in, using enmity abilities) and with a decent player using it, it makes for a great tank. Not to mention they can share abilities from the other classes, like Defender II, with Axemanship.
GLA can also block with Foresight and Featherfoot too.

So again, yes, MRD can be a good tank but I personally think GLA is better at it. Better? =P

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Other melee classes don't have regular aoe tp gaining swings.

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You mocking me? You should be ashamed in trying to compare broad swing with TP generation actions. Broad swing still miss alot...and if you don't hit you don't get TP...all MRD basic was "it can miss...np...because while fighting multiple targets someone will always take a hit"...its the basic for bloodbath mechanics, for maim mechanics...the idea always was that having constant AoE swings coming out would keep the TP generation up to other melees, mining groups of monsters while people is focused in one.

The "real" MRD would be able to cross Darkhold beating the hell out of those mole/orobon/bogies clusters solo...but "current" MRD can just stay there looking pretty because the monsters keep running after ARCs and skipping your dead slow AA swings or making you hit like 1 mob only with broad/full before you have to wait the dumb recast time.

Seriously, man...you're MRD 50...i'm sure you know what i'm talking about...we should be together, trying to get the class back on shape before thing like FFXI had start happening where you join a PT as MRD and they kick you because you are MRD or some other elitist members start disbanding due this.

In FFXI my first job 75 was SMN...i know how bad this stuff can become...i know how annoying it is to being forced to solo because no one want a "gimp" job in their party...luckly i was able to see SMN rise again over time after Diabolos was added...and that's what i don't want here...took like 3 years to have SMN start getting back on business...i don't want MRD to pass thru it too...

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You mocking me? You should be ashamed in trying to compare broad swing with TP generation actions. Broad swing still miss alot...

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I think you're mocking me; My swing doesn't miss a lot at all. Acc got increased this patch.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

before thing like FFXI had start happening where you join a PT as MRD and they kick you because you are MRD or some other elitist members start disbanding due this.

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This is one thing I worry about right now when playing.
While MRD is pretty much nerfed to heck, it's still possible to play well (to a certain extent) by adapting play style from the old way and learning to get around current issues like the TP generation. While many MRDs are indeed overcoming some of the problems as best they cam and still enjoying it, the mindset of the majority of players is just that. "MRD wasn't great before, now it's a little bit worse. Why should we have MRDs in our party?"

So while someone could be one of the best MRD players out there they might still get rejected from PTs because of the mindset and lack of changes by SE to increase the usefulness of MRD in ALL situations, much like other classes, and actually has a role of it's own aside AoE DD - Which isn't too useful in fights against bosses like Ogre and still suffers from the long recast timers on the 0TP base moves, slow TP gen if you miss, etc.

If we don't say anything, nothing will change.

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Originally Posted by Narctiss

'Lies'? That's not very nice. =P

I should have made it clearer then.
In my -opinion-, GLA can tank better than MRD.
While I agree with what you say about how MRD can be a great tank I also know that GLA + shield, high VIT and the correct gear (accessories included) has a large amount of HP, a great defense, can hold hate (dealing dmg faster, first hits, letting hate settle in, using enmity abilities) and with a decent player using it, it makes for a great tank. Not to mention they can share abilities from the other classes, like Defender II, with Axemanship.
GLA can also block with Foresight and Featherfoot too.

So again, yes, MRD can be a good tank but I personally think GLA is better at it. Better? =P

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In my -opinion-, MRD can tank better than GLA for Orge.

Mrd health > Gla health
Mrd emnity >>> Gla emnity
Mrd defense ~ Gla defense
Mrd stats ~Gla stats
Mrd burst damage > Gla burst damage
Mrd defender 2 full effect >> Gla defender 2 weaker in general (defense,magic defense) with no emnity bonus
Mrd Foresight > Gla Foresight, Mrd Featherfoot = Gla Featherfoot

Gla block nice, but hardly nothing to block on that fight.

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Originally Posted by Narctiss

This is one thing I worry about right now when playing.
While MRD is pretty much nerfed to heck, it's still possible to play well (to a certain extent) by adapting play style from the old way and learning to get around current issues like the TP generation. While many MRDs are indeed overcoming some of the problems as best they cam and still enjoying it, the mindset of the majority of players is just that. "MRD wasn't great before, now it's a little bit worse. Why should we have MRDs in our party?"

So while someone could be one of the best MRD players out there they might still get rejected from PTs because of the mindset and lack of changes by SE to increase the usefulness of MRD in ALL situations, much like other classes, and actually has a role of it's own aside AoE DD - Which isn't too useful in fights against bosses like Ogre and still suffers from the long recast timers on the 0TP base moves, slow TP gen if you miss, etc.

If we don't say anything, nothing will change.

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Exactly. ^^ We van't just pretend its all ponies and rainbows and hope it will eventually get better...now that we know next patches will be balancing classes its the time to point every flaw of this patch so they can fix it...there is no way they know something is bad if no one say it.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

In my -opinion-, MRD can tank better than GLA for Orge.

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Now that's better. A disagreement of opinions rather than fact stating (which was my bad for not making it clear enough).

While I'll hold to my statement I'll be happy to be disproved. Like I said, I don't deny that MRD can tank well. I'd like to see a comparison between the two of them against Ogre using the same team, same player as the MRD/GLA on both occasions, correct stat set up for each and such forth.

If GLA is better, then it's just as I thought and I'll still feel MRD needs adjustments.
If MRD is better, then fair enough you were correct and hopefully more people from the community would see the video and start using MRDs in their PTs more often. I still might feel MRD needs adjustments though haha.