Any news on DX11 version?

As the title states. I haven't seen any news or updates on the progress of the dx11 version of the game. How much longer will we have to look forward to seeing this SE?

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Originally Posted by Achtzen

As the title states. I haven't seen any news or updates on the progress of the dx11 version of the game. How much longer will we have to look forward to seeing this SE?

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Last update we got it suggested DX11 was a low priority and was scheduled to start work on after the China release. The DX9 version looks great and works well. They stated they wont be upgrading textures so there's minimal advantages to create another version of the game.

Except dx9 isnt optimized for modern systems and works the system harder for the same results.

They announced that work has already begun, and internal discussions on additions such as High Resolution Textures were underway (and whether this would be a technical possibility, and the varibale limitations they'd have to impose on it).

But it's not expected to be released until the expansion or after (unless they change the schedule)

At least that's what the latest information I can find dictates.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

Except dx9 isnt optimized for modern systems and works the system harder for the same results.

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Not true, DX9 itself requires no more or less demand on a system based on its average manufacturing year. DX9 was a permissible choice for FFXIV 2.0 for its flexibility, strong foot-holding in the industry/average hardware basis whilst meeting the basic graphical requirements for the development of the game for the time being.

(For a game that was being rebuilt from the ground up with the expectation that it might fail again, creating a DX10/10.1/11 client was NOT a priority, as explained by the development team, the company had an unhealthy focus on graphical quality, focusing too much time and effort into finite visual fidelity rather than focusing on targets and milestones for development progression.)

However that being said, DX11 runs altogether more efficiently than DX9 although this difference isn't a massive change from DX9.

I want DX11 so bad.

If they aren't upgrading the textures then what will DX11 do for the game? Help it run smoother?

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

If they aren't upgrading the textures then what will DX11 do for the game? Help it run smoother?

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They're considering adding in a High Resolution Texture Pack(s) option for FFXIV, whether this gets added to the DX11 client or as a separate patch option isn't known.
Last we heard they were in the discussion/planning/debating stages as to whether they had the actual technical capacity to do it.

MMO's have A LOT of assets to render live, consider the amount of animations, models, sounds, textures, particles and various other data constantly loading in and out of the system. Balancing between detail/performance is important, so a high-resolution texture pack would have to be approached very carefully in regards to this.

DX11 however offers the following (and more, I've only listed a few things);

Improved Performance
Improved map rendering (bump/normal/specular/parallax/vertex/displacement mapping)
Improved asset rendering pipeline
Drastically Improved Alpha Sorting
Additional components added to DX11
Considerably more expansive and robust shader systems and shader rendering
Overall Better Lighting Shadow Casting/Rendering
DX based Tesselation support
DX based DoF support
Displacement Shaders
Shader Model 5.0

Overall DX11 is considerably easier to work with and manipulate from a development stand-point, so tricking the hardware into doing what you actually want it to do is much easier than it was with DX9/10.


But basicly;
DX11 is less about "More Performance" and more about "This is easier to work with, and we get lots of new shiny tools to play with".



DX11 HAS NO ACTUAL BEARING ON THE HIGH RESOLUTION TEXTURE PACK.
Technically the texture pack could easily be done in DX9, they're just considering releasing the textures along side the DX11 client (or even bundled with it)

I was under the impression that they weren't releasing a high-res texture pack (which is extremely disappointing)?

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

I was under the impression that they weren't releasing a high-res texture pack (which is extremely disappointing)?

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Yep. Exactly what i remember. They said they don't have any plans of releasing higher res textures. So i don't know where that info is coming from.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

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They could also restrict the engine to feature level 9_3 (DX9.0c). This would allow them to use modern hardware more efficiently, as well as have one code base to update with minimal compatibility issues.

EVE:Online did this with the Rubicon expansion. CCP moved the primary game engine to DX11; while restricting the engine to 9_3 to avoid compatibility issues. While there were a few issues, the goal of moving to a modern API was successful.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

Last update we got it suggested DX11 was a low priority and was scheduled to start work on after the China release. The DX9 version looks great and works well. They stated they wont be upgrading textures so there's minimal advantages to create another version of the game.

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Last Update was: They are working on a Mac, Dx11 und Dx 12 Version.


http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1293...icrosoft-talks

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

Except dx9 isnt optimized for modern systems and works the system harder for the same results.

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Not exactly true. One of the main reasons to use a new version of DirectX was to take advantage of the new features of graphic cards.

When MS started to work on DX10+ they decided that they can make the graphics cards and game/program work more efficiently by rewriting DX and they did that but the one problem is that the change was so fundamental that existing programs just wouldn't be compatible because they interacted with DX in a different way. While from a performance point that's great but it broke one of windows best features - backwards compatibility. To get DX 10 you had to have a Vista system and most were on XP so why would a dev take it seriously. It seems by what little I've read that MS will be making DX12 compatible with older versions of Windows, Win7+. A lot of games stuck with a DX 9c version and just stuck with DX9c. DX 11 seems to finally been taking seriously and now MS will introduce a new version and I hope it'll be compatible with DX10 computers too.

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Originally Posted by Ahmbor

Last Update was: They are working on a Mac, Dx11 und Dx 12 Version.


http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1293...icrosoft-talks

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The Mac version, that's new, to me at least. I do worry about the viability of multiple versions. From what I understand Dx12 is supposed to offer more low level access to hardware akin to AMD's mantle so I'm certain a DX12 coded game wont be compatible with DX 11.

I want to see DX 11 as well

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

The Mac version, that's new, to me at least. I do worry about the viability of multiple versions. From what I understand Dx12 is supposed to offer more low level access to hardware akin to AMD's mantle so I'm certain a DX12 coded game wont be compatible with DX 11.

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Large parts, but not all, of DX12 can be run on DX11 hardware.

They stated when DX11 was originally going to be out, and that was when they launched the PS4 version. Alas, I still don't see it.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

They stated when DX11 was originally going to be out, and that was when they launched the PS4 version. Alas, I still don't see it.

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Plans change.
They've said that they're working on it, but can't expect it to be finished before end of the year.

They need to reconsider redoing,
the grass in the game. (Lines of grass.. look bad. make it better)
the textures.
Enemy & Character Movement/motions. (1.0 good example of this.)
Loading of unseen objects. (We load the hole zone and much of it we don't even see. If this was added could improve graphics/loading speed)
Fixing Model designs of few things (They looked glitched/messed up)
How game is designed. (Example: Having people gather at Northshroud for coil2. This causes that zone to be more busy and they had to remove npcs because of it. Could of been fixed if everyone could enter it through duty finder instead from any zone.)

So many bugs in this game its not funny. Sad part SE isn't fixing them at a decent rate. Takes them 6-10+ months to fix a simple bug.

By the time they release a DX11 version DX12 will be around.

IMO they should have used DX11 from the get go. How many FFXIV players are still using XP?

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Originally Posted by Beetle

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Sorry, but these aren't really bugs, these are just graphical issues that you aren't pleased with. Understand that your PC's performance has a lot to do with rendering objects. Also, your details aren't really... detailed "fix models (they look weird)" isn't really helping anyone.

An unimpressive grass texture is the least of Square Enix's worries with this game right now, there are far more important things to focus on, like actual content.

I bet we might see the DX11 client along with the expansion coming this winter. Definitely not earlier with 2.3 and 2.4 or else that will be a huge surprise for me. I really want DX11 client. FFXIV 2.0 is a beautiful modern game and we need to take advantage of our modern machines. I'm really waiting for DX11 implementation. Come on SE give some love to the PC players.

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Originally Posted by Edli

By the time they release a DX11 version DX12 will be around.

IMO they should have used DX11 from the get go. How many FFXIV players are still using XP?

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Its optional otherwise, they lose big fan base

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

Yep. Exactly what i remember. They said they don't have any plans of releasing higher res textures. So i don't know where that info is coming from.

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It came up during E3 as far as I recall.

Internal discussions on the implementation of higher resolution and or various uncompressed textures, was up for debate. They said it was still in the basic mathematical stages at the moment (i.e. "Do we have enough memory on your average DX11 card for this?"

Other games have much higher resolution textures and seem to fit it into gpu memory just fine. Often those games have much larger maps (since FFXIV zones load individually anyway). Also, I'm assuming (at least hoping) the original game assets created are already a much higher resolution and aren't compressed, and were subsequently downsized and compressed to fit into the PC, PS4, and PS3 versions respectively. I don't see the harm in including a hi-res texture pack if they already have the assets, especially since players can just NOT USE IT if their respective GPU can't handle it. PC gaming and graphics are about options for the end user that scale appropriately with their individual hardware's capabilities. Right now the entire game has been reported to use at most 800MB or so of VRAM...a ton of mid-range and higher cards out there have 2+GB, so there's plenty of room to increase texture sizes and lose that nasty normal map compression for quite a few PC players.

I think graphic improvements will also be much much easier after they finally declare "end of life" for the PS3 version. It's the reason the game is stuck with zone loading, terrible dithery checkered "alpha" blending, limited hair styles, physics, and a slew of other compromises. I apologize to those playing on the PS3, but meeting that system's 8 year old hardware is severely limiting this game's visual and even gameplay potential.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

Except dx9 isnt optimized for modern systems and works the system harder for the same results.

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Most DX9 games are programmed in D3D11.

Since is backwards compatible, they lower the Feature level to run on Dx9 systems.

How about an OpenGL client?

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Most DX9 games are programmed in D3D11.

Since is backwards compatible, they lower the Feature level to run on Dx9 systems.

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While newer versions of DX add more 'graphical features' they aren't always backwards compatible. DX11 was rewritten to be more efficient and therefore works differently than DX 9.

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Originally Posted by Purplenum

How about an OpenGL client?

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Why. DX9 works well as it is.

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Originally Posted by Purplenum

How about an OpenGL client?

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Not really worth the effort when DirectX works across almost any platform (Even a PS3/4 can use it with a little tweaking).

I've been eagerly awaiting any news on this DX11 update, since even before version 2.0 was released. If anyone following this thread hears any more news on it, it would be excellent to let us all know! It would also be awesome if Nvidia helped implement their HBAO+ (much higher quality than the strange small-radius implementation of AO they're using now, and possibly actually more efficient for modern GPUs), as well as TXAA 2x and 4x as alternative Anti-aliasing methods. I'd be ecstatic if they were considering any additional AA options in the future as well, most notably SMAA 1x, 2sx, 2tx, and 4x variations; maybe even MSAA with alpha (as seen in CryEngine3) as it's possible with deferred rendering under DX11. Physically based rendering would be incredible for this game too but my wishlist is already pretty long here :P

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Originally Posted by Gieff

I've been eagerly awaiting any news on this DX11 update, since even before version 2.0 was released. If anyone following this thread hears any more news on it, it would be excellent to let us all know! It would also be awesome if Nvidia helped implement their HBAO+ (much higher quality than the strange small-radius implementation of AO they're using now, and possibly actually more efficient for modern GPUs), as well as TXAA 2x and 4x as alternative Anti-aliasing methods. I'd be ecstatic if they were considering any additional AA options in the future as well, most notably SMAA 1x, 2sx, 2tx, and 4x variations; maybe even MSAA with alpha (as seen in CryEngine3) as it's possible with deferred rendering under DX11. Physically based rendering would be incredible for this game too but my wishlist is already pretty long here :P

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Hardware Based AA is a given, even if it's not implemented it can be forced on.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Not really worth the effort when DirectX works across almost any platform (Even a PS3/4 can use it with a little tweaking).

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what? DirectX is a Microsoft API and only available on Microsoft platforms. For everything else, there's OpenGL. PS4 version runs on a variant of OpenGL 4.4 (which is actually ahead of DX11) with updated shaders. When they do add a Mac client, it'll be using OpenGL shaders similar to the PS versions.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

While newer versions of DX add more 'graphical features' they aren't always backwards compatible. DX11 was rewritten to be more efficient and therefore works differently than DX 9.

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That's not what I mean. I'm saying games are programmed in DX11 and they turn off features to "emulate DX9". Kind of like how you can use a modern engine to make a "retro game"

I'm sure there is going to be a Q & A session at the Fan Festival. This is going to be one of my top questions! ;)

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Originally Posted by Shioban

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm going to go ahead and act like I know anything about graphics APIs in general.

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You should probably do some research.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

what? DirectX is a Microsoft API and only available on Microsoft platforms. For everything else, there's OpenGL. PS4 version runs on a variant of OpenGL 4.4 (which is actually ahead of DX11) with updated shaders. When they do add a Mac client, it'll be using OpenGL shaders similar to the PS versions.

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Correct, by default the PS4's "go-to" option is OpenGL! What I originally wrote was extremely stupid, as I put down "PS3/4" without any second thought.

It's obvious the PS3/PS4 client are currently running using OpenGL instead of DirectX, however the possibility of using DX11 now is actually on the table, as we've actually managed to do it as have many others (where as before we couldn't do so with the PS3).

It's currently only used on Microsoft platforms, that doesn't mean it cannot be used elsewhere, the only difference between DirectX and OpenGL on the matter would require royalties to be paid for the use of the API outside of Microsofts outlets, and the all around general support, documentation and also the overall support provided by Sony themselves.

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Originally Posted by Purplenum

You should probably do some research.

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Well, that was rather blunt of me, my apologies as I said above I typed "PS3/4" without first thinking what I was writing.

We did do quite a bit of research before hand when we attempted to do something similar with a PS3 development kit, but obviously that never worked.
However no less than two months ago we were able to very easily implement without issue a simple DX11 scene on a PS4, it actually proved a lot more fun and overall relieving for our team, as the last time we attempted to do pretty much anything with a PS3 we simply hit wall after wall of problems.

It's a heavily modified derivative, but it's entirely possible (although OpenGL has much better support and documentation on the PS4 specifically).



My original point should have been that it's possible to use it, Microsoft seemingly do allow it to be used, albeit through royalties.
It was actually in hindsight completely stupid to write "It works across all platforms", when I should have put "It works, although isn't fully supported on most".

Which was my original intention when writing it, not "DX is perfect, nothing can question it!".



TL;DR

I'm an idiot, I didn't think twice about what I was writing.

A PS3 cannot use DirectX, a PS4 can (albeit a bit of a hassle currently).

It's unlikely they'll use a modified DX11 API, but the possibility is on the table.