Please buff Quelling Strikes

This can be biased, but I don't think I'm speaking for just myself.

Now, I personally don't mind new players. It's always a good feeling to teach people that's willing to learn the mechanics. However, the one thing that bothers me is the ilvl.
Tanks that are usually fresh makes it really un-enjoyable for me. Having to stop dpsing every 2 - 3 cast/not using procs at all is troublesome. Keep in mind this is WITH
Quelling Strikes.

This wasn't as noticeable back when the highest ilvl being 91. But now we have 110 gear, things are just much more difficult.

And let's be real, 15 seconds duration and 2 minute cooldown is like nothing. I think the best approach would be to increase it to 30 seconds with the same cooldown.

Keep in mind this is just a perspective of an i98 BLM. What are you guys thought on it?

Edit: Updating my suggestions:

1. Extend Quelling Strikes duration to 30 seconds.
2. Make an ilvl sync to 90 for Duty Finder/Roulette 4-man dungeons. (Doesn't apply for Party Finers/Pre-made parties)
3. Match people to similar ilvl (10 levels difference at max) - Although I don't personally like this one too much due to our current df system.
4.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

Quelling strikes itself needs no "buff" like increased duration. Its recast needs to be shortened.

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This is all I can think of for now.

I don't understand the link between the new tanks and the buff of a skill.. :S

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Originally Posted by Laifon

I don't understand the link between the new tanks and the buff of a skill.. :S

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My point is that it's too easy to pull off tanks that aren't decently gear. And as ilvl of the DPS progress, even Quelling Strikes isn't enough to reduce the enmity that are being dished out by DPS.

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Originally Posted by RegnumMagik

My point is that it's too easy to pull off tanks that aren't decently gear. And as ilvl of the DPS progress, even Quelling Strikes isn't enough to reduce the enmity that are being dished out by DPS.

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Ooh, like that.
Well, tanking isn't really hard in this game, even with the ilvl diff. I don't think it's a smart move to buff a skill based on ''new'' tanks.
This would ease up the aggro holding for tanks even more.

Quelling Strikes reduces enmity per action by 50%, I think, which is huge. You notice how useful it is on a comparably leveled tank. The thing is, Quelling Strikes is not the problem. Even if you held back, that's not the problem. Because of how powerful you are, one Fire 2 will be enough to put you on the near-tanking line. Quelling Strikes getting a buff is only putting a band-aid on the problem. The real problem is the runaway power of the higher level players versus the limited abilities of a new 50; the level discrepancy is becoming very wide now at level 50.

Some dungeons may have a minimum item level to enter but none of them have a maximum and it's becoming like entering Sastasha with the stats of an unsynced level 40 with some of your members still at 15 for the "entry" level 50 dungeons. I suspect when we get our first level cap increase the dungeons are gonna be level synced at 50-53. That's going to change the dynamics of some of these dungeons (Brayflox.) and it will be easier for newer 50s. They may want to consider doing something similar in the meantime but people would have a coronary.

>.> The real problem is the stupidly high amount of blm / brds who don't use quelling :/ I see maybe 2/10 brd/blm (me included) actually using quelling, the other 8 just go crazy on stuff before the tank has hate. What's worse is when you notice a blm doesn't have brd high enough for it, so you decide to give them advice for them to get quelling. Months later, end up in the same pt with them...no quelling still.

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

Quelling Strikes reduces enmity per action by 50%, I think, which is huge. You notice how useful it is on a comparably leveled tank. The thing is, Quelling Strikes is not the problem. Even if you held back, that's not the problem. Because of how powerful you are, one Fire 2 will be enough to put you on the near-tanking line. Quelling Strikes getting a buff is only putting a band-aid on the problem. The real problem is the runaway power of the higher level players versus the limited abilities of a new 50; the level discrepancy is becoming very wide now at level 50.

Some dungeons may have a minimum item level to enter but none of them have a maximum and it's becoming like entering Sastasha with the stats of an unsynced level 40 with some of your members still at 15 for the "entry" level 50 dungeons. I suspect when we get our first level cap increase the dungeons are gonna be level synced at 50-53. That's going to change the dynamics of some of these dungeons (Brayflox.) and it will be easier for newer 50s. They may want to consider doing something similar in the meantime but people would have a coronary.

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Well said.

Updated my suggestions on OP.

I dunno, I think if you're strong enough to pull aggro with quelling strike from an i50 tank, I think you'd be strong enough to kill it without making it hard for you healer.

Be glad you even have access to Quelling Strikes. The only way a MNK can drop enmity is to die. There's no way for undergeared tanks to keep aggro over me ;_;

the only buff i woul like to see quelling strikes needs a 50% instant agro drop (like DRG jump) as soon as u use it.

the only solution to your problem is giving the fresh tanks more time ....wait for 2-3 overpower / flash before start dpsing , or slow down a bit...at the beginning.

I didnt had any problems as fresh warrior/paladin , OP and flash spam was enough to keep up. For bosses FoF/ berserk at the start and u are golden.

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

Be glad you even have access to Quelling Strikes. The only way a MNK can drop enmity is to die. There's no way for undergeared tanks to keep aggro over me ;_;

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There is :D just kill the mob before it kill you and problem solved. If it is the boss then tank it with fists of earth or keep fire and ask healer to heal you instead the gimp tank lol.

Quelling strikes itself needs no "buff" like increased duration. Its recast needs to be shortened.

Oh and dear fellow Bards: If you see a tank struggles with keeping hate, when you give each mob you see enemas of wood and iron, how about you tick down a notch? No you wont slow down the run, a tank losing hate to an over motivated bard means more MP strain on the healers, this leads to wipes and slowdowns in extreme cases.

oh and in low levels, tanking against bards IS hard, you miss a lot of skills. think of the tanks


How to lose hate for DPS:
Slow down your ability rotation for a few seconds.

Yeah the recast is a problem and it's even moreso with new tanks. New tanks tend to have poor gear so they don't do speed run style pulls, which is understandable. But this means I can't use Quelling on the majority of the pulls and I'm almost certain to pull hate if I don't stop DPSing. SE are talking about buffing BLM so this will get worse. More experienced tanks are more likely to do big pulls where Quelling is available for almost every pull and this makes their job easier.

Quelling itself seems strong enough, the only time I pull hate from a tank with Quelling up is when they aren't AoE tanking well enough when I'm going all out AoE. That's the tank being poor rather than the ability being weak. Or maybe they are tanking it right and I'm just not noticing they lost hate due to too much DPS. When I have Quelling up I'll be pairing it with RS and a double flare because if I don't then using RS or Convert any other time will end up with me tanking. Actually pulled Ifrit off a tank the other day because I didn't notice my Quelling didn't go off lol.

Honestly, this sounds like a DD that can't manage their enmity worth a damn. I mean, really, it's not that hard to do. If it looks like you're about to draw aggro either switch targets or slow using abilities till the tank can reassert themself in the enmity hierarchy. If you can't shake enmity with Quelling as it is now then you clearly never learned proper enmity management and should endeavor to learn.

Well I did manage to pull hate off of tanks even with quelling up... But that's generally rare. From leveling up from the start I learned to hold my DPS slower unless I was sure about the tank. At high level I often see myself on the red blinking triangle especiallf if the ilvl diversity is to great. I will often stop DSPing and turn around to avoid auto attacking as well until I see my enmnity drop. The problem I've seen is that some tanks don't seem to build up enminty even after that even when I'm not attacking...

What I would like to see is that repelling shot gets an enminty drop 25% potency added to it.

Some Bards also seem to have a tournament with them self running "How fast will I get the hate from the tank" and than proceed to whine about it to the tank.

Us tanks aren't meant for you to go crazy, if provoke x tomahawk x flash x overpower and the enmity combo don't get the mob(s) of you, I let you keep it.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Honestly, this sounds like a DD that can't manage their enmity worth a damn. I mean, really, it's not that hard to do. If it looks like you're about to draw aggro either switch targets or slow using abilities till the tank can reassert themself in the enmity hierarchy. If you can't shake enmity with Quelling as it is now then you clearly never learned proper enmity management and should endeavor to learn.

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It's not hard, no. It is kinda jarring, though. I mean, I have no issues giving an undergeared tank a few attacks of head start, but having to sideline yourself just isn't interesting or engaging. I'll Quelling whenever I can so that I can actually do more, but in most runs it's only up for every other pull, at best. . .

I don't think your ilvl is that important to enmity generation that it requires a buff to quelling. If the tank isn't holding hate, they aren't doing it right. As an i95 PLD, I can hold hate against a BRD and BLM i100+ with Sword Oath on...

My suggestion...watch what the tank is actually doing, maybe they are messing up their combo (single target), not properly using flash (large groups), or just being lazy and not performing their combo immediately as it comes off GCD.

Giving the ability a shorter cooldown sounds appropriate. Quelling Strikes is typically only useful at one time: the very start of a fight. Tank enmity generation in this game is frankly ridiculous; a couple of enmity rotations and the mob is your friend for life, no matter what the DDs do to it. If a BRD or BLM is going to pull hate it will pretty much always be at the start of the fight while the tank is still gathering a group of mobs together and hasn't had a chance to establish firm enmity on all of them. Giving Quelling Strikes a cooldown that allows them to use it once per battle is appropriate.

In the case of bosses, Quelling Strikes is pretty much pointless after the first minute so it's not as though letting them have Quelling Strikes again will make a lick of difference. Again, no opportunity for abuse.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Honestly, this sounds like a DD that can't manage their enmity worth a damn. I mean, really, it's not that hard to do. If it looks like you're about to draw aggro either switch targets or slow using abilities till the tank can reassert themself in the enmity hierarchy. If you can't shake enmity with Quelling as it is now then you clearly never learned proper enmity management and should endeavor to learn.

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That's going to vary by tank of course, if you're used to playing with tanks that you can throw a brick wall at the mob without it blinking your direction and then get one where if you sneeze on the mob you have aggro..

I've also had runs where it didn't matter how easy I went, I've still nearly pulled hate off mobs (quelling or not) with every pull.. main thing then ends up being don't run around like a chicken without a head
(unless the tank is dead ^^;)

As far as the 50% figure it doesn't seem that high from the little bit I've paid attention to it. I miss 1.0 Chameleon though which was a straight dump all aggro skill.

You're a DPS class. You're job is not just to "kill kill kill ASAP", it's also to CONTROL your DPS.

There is a fine line between an intelligent tank that holds back the group, and a bad tank that holds back the group.

If you find a decently geared tank that is correctly dishing out threat, and (while using quelling strikes) you still consistently pull off them, then it could use a buff. Excluding the region where item level syncing does not come into play (a fresh 50 tank vs i100 dps) I don't believe this is actually an issue. And the exclusion should actually be addressed with syncing level 50 dungeons to alleviate that difference rather then buffing an ability that effects all content.

Quelling shot is fine, the issue exists but it needs a less reckless solution to the problem. It's not interesting game play when dps have an ability that will literally make threat management a joke.

The problem is vertical progression...
... again.

Since the only purpose of equipments in this game is to become individually more powerful, it creates this kind of situation where fresh 50 may feel like a burden to high ilevel players.
Instead, equipments should precisely be the tool to avoid this ; to allow new players and veterans to play together by choosing wisely their equipments.

Stuff with enmity+/- bonus would allow powerful DD to play normally (instead of stopping playing, as absurdly suggested above).
Weapons inflicting debuff as additional effect (decreasing enemy's defense or attack)
Or equipments with bonus to ability, like "Increase Quelling Strikes duration".

All these equipments may be slightly weaker than the current equipments, in term of raw power (strength+, vitality+, etc.), but, having bonus that are profitable to the whole party, it would diminish the disparities between players of different ilevel.

Something does need to be done to lessen the ilevel gap in the level 50 dungeons. I just ran AK and the WAR with Defiance had only 200–300 HP more than the BLM. Honestly, I love being paired with new people since you sort of feel that accomplishment with them when they manage to down a boss for the first time, but it makes healing super odd when I DoT something in Cleric Stance and steal the hate from the tank.
I would personally like to see an ilevel sync for Duty Finder dungeons. Would probably help with that first boss in Pharos, too, since if you DPS the boss too quick, the adds come too fast.

This isn't mostly directed to people that can't hold aggro because they're bad (because that's easily fixable). There's newer tanks that is actually doing the best of their ability and still lose aggro (because they're undergeared).

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Originally Posted by Morzy

You're a DPS class. You're job is not just to "kill kill kill ASAP", it's also to CONTROL your DPS.

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There's nothing that's saying DPS should be killing things ASAP. But it's boring to hold back in every mob pulls, and even bosses for the entire dungeon duration.
Do note there's a huge gap from the entry requirement of all 4 man dungeons and our current highest item level. (i55 vs i111)

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

Quelling strikes itself needs no "buff" like increased duration. Its recast needs to be shortened.

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I like that idea, I'll add it to OP.

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Originally Posted by RegnumMagik

There's nothing that's saying DPS should be killing things ASAP. But it's boring to hold back in every mob pulls, and even bosses for the entire dungeon duration.
Do note there's a huge gap from the entry requirement of all 4 man dungeons and our current highest item level. (i55 vs i111)

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So what if it's boring? That's what patience is for, if you aren't patient enough to slow down and smell the corpses then maybe you shouldn't be doing low or high level Roulettes. You could alleviate the boredom by, I don't know, giving pointers to the new people on what to expect in future dungeons, or how to improve their enmity management, or what gear they should upgrade to. You know, be a helpful person. This is an MMO, not a single player RPG.