Why gear should be craftable:

All the new gear is not as good as the +3 gear many of us have already crafted for ourselves in the 10 months of having nothing else better to do.

So for some of us there is no gear-incentive for this new content.

I think the option of making +3 gear was a useful mechanism SE implemented into the game to not only make use of our time (giving us something to work toward) but also giving crafters endgame content.

The only problem, of course, with having craftable gear is that this implies the gear must also be tradeable. Tradeable gear would give instanced-content monetary value, which might not be something SE wants, considering the short re-entry time.

After having seen the new Artifact-type gear mined from the DATs, I wonder if that too will not be crafted.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

So there is no gear-incentive for this new content for us.

I think the option to make +3 gear was a useful mechanism SE implemented into the game to not only make use of our time (giving us something to work toward) but also giving crafters endgame content.

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Or maybe they want us to infuse the gear from the dungeons with materia in the next patch.

not everyone has +3 gear nor gil to buy said gear. Your argument is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

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I'm not complaining about rare/ex really, Im complaining about no possibility of HQing drops.

I can't think of a suitable mechanism to allow HQing the gear and also making it rare/ex though.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

I'm not complaining about rare/ex really, Im complaining about no possibility of HQing drops.

I can't think of a suitable mechanism to allow HQing the gear and also making it rare/ex though.

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the materia system will keep gear as rare/ex and allow for "HQing" through customization.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

the materia system will keep gear as rare/ex and allow for "HQing" through customization.

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Yes but getting a materia and throwing it at a premade item isn't really an accomplishment. There's no glory or sense of achievement doing that.

Making a +3 requires a lot of effort.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Yes but getting a materia and throwing it at a premade item isn't really an accomplishment. There's no glory or sense of achievement doing that.

Making a +3 requires a lot of effort.

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Unless you fuse two materia together. It sounds like that could be really tough, so that could be an accomplishment.

what about materia +3 ? ~~

use your brain

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Originally Posted by OptimalZedd

what about materia +3 ? ~~

use your brain

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this is a possibility and will most likely happen

Honestly, and I've beaten this dead horse (dare I say gifthorse) with gifthorse before around here for a long time...

...it's time to say goodbye to the game Tanaka was creating. I know only GH and LuxLex may agree with me (and that's fine) but the game Tanaka was building was amazing. It's much easier to see how brilliant it was now that its being destroyed piece by piece. I don't see much of a difference between XI and XIV now (except one is more fun, and it's not this one). I hate Tanaka. I'm not his fanboy by far. I hated so much of what he did and said in XI. I hated his cocky know it all attitude, but I've come to terms that I was wrong about him. That he knew WTF he was doing and I sure didn't.

I was so happy when Yoshida took over. I didn't realize he'd take 7 months to build a battle system no one wanted. That he'd spend all that time thinking of creative ways to destroy the world Tanaka was building, where any class could easily fill a role in a party, and grouping and grinding was simple. I especially enjoyed how everyone in the party had to actually participate in order to earn SP rather than simply leach it (and it was Tanaka himself who scrapped that after tremendous crybaby responses to it).

Yes the game launched buggy, laggy, foolishly early, but everything about XIV in Sept to December and the last word we had from Tanaka about future content and fixes was much, much better than this crap. I've also come to terms with the fact that Square Enix simply isn't interested in my demographic. I like(d) XIV and still not giving up on it because Yoshida may actually build a solid, fun game - but it really won't be the one I signed up for. It's going to be some grotesque birthing of WoW & XI in the end because they just didn't know what to do to stop the game from bleeding to death.

Well, it sucks for me, but that's ok, I guess. I'm getting old and the younger generation should really be catered to. I'll just go back to playing "the good old games." (Currently playing FFT, for the record).

Live it up, Dubont. I'm glad you like this turd. Me? I preferred the innovation of free-style playing, rather than being forced into certain roles 100% of the time. I liked building a new bar for every new situation. I liked having the MP to contribute to a long fight from start to finish as opposed warming the bench while my MP refills slowly. It's just not as fun as it used to be and that's pretty sad considering how terrible this game has been for 8 months.

I don't like where it's headed. I'm glad Gifthorse has been around (despite multiple bans) to really be the voice of reason (most of the time) about what this game could have been and how foolish this path really is for the game.

On the other hand, dungeons are pretty fun! I sat there building a team for it and asked myself (and the party) "Wait, why do we need a THM anyway? Nah, go MRD." Sad that the game is already becoming exclusive rather than the inclusive systems that Tanaka worked on for a long time. It's really sad.

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I think it would be great if there were some really hard recipes that needed you to farm extremely rare drops around Eorzera to craft gear with a really high crafting level. This would encourage teamwork, activate the dead economy and most importantly create content that players can complete in their own way without arrow markers spoiling the fun of discovery.

Also this would be really cheap way to add content that is optional, challenging and makes the population a bit more interested in exploring the secrets of this game.

the whole reason for the "class" system not really working out entirely...is that it isn't FF-ish enough...so we are getting jobs for those classes...you have to remember, this is a Final Fantasy first and a MMORPG second. It would be different it it wasn't a primary FF game (numbered), but it is, so that fact is prioritized.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

the whole reason for the "class" system not really working out entirely...is that it isn't FF-ish enough...so we are getting jobs for those classes...you have to remember, this is a Final Fantasy first and a MMORPG second. It would be different it it wasn't a primary FF game (numbered), but it is, so that fact is prioritized.

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I don't have a problem with the job system. I was dying to play White Mage.

Guess what, though, I'm playing White Mage right now and it's called Conjurer and it's stupid.
It took a fun job and made it boring as hell.

Anyway, I also meant to say in my rant - they've already begun the process (with the lower level NMs) of shitting on Crafters. Just like Yoshida said they were steering away from Guildleves, I'm pretty sure he's going to announce one of these days (if he hasn't already) Crafters and Gatherers aren't real classes and they never meant them to be. You all will champion that, too, but in the long run it's a stupid decision.

Involving crafters in every single instance of creating gear would have been much farking smarter. Yeah we all love NM gear and I'm not entirely against a few here and there that are Untradable, but ... well I leveled CON to 50 using gear crafters made, then the low-level NMs came out. I wore Seer's Cowl for THM from 25-50. Same with all the other gear. Sorry, crafters. Free gear > expensive gear. You lose this round.

It's a bad call. It's stupid for the economy. Dark Matter is a good idea for inventory, but further LOL-ifies crafters. They don't even need to craft a material now, they just buy it at the store and badaboom. Now repairs have a flat rate NPC price of whatever the hell Dark Matter is and no one will (or should) ever really offer more. I used to offer 10-20k for repairs that required Jade, but nope no more.

Anyway the Dark Matter move is semi-smart as it removes tons of inventory clutter, but the game is just crapping all over what Tanaka was building which is a world where everyone could have fun doing the thing they enjoyed most. You enjoy Weaving? Fucking go for it. Now it's pretty much your loss though cause all you are is a glorified bitch-boy repairman. "Repair my fucking NM gear. I don't want your stupid fucking hat unless you +3 that shit."

Yeah we all want an economy where NQ through HQ+2 are complete garbage and +3 is the only thing worth making.

That worked out so well for XI.

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Originally Posted by Seif

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I think it would be great if there were some really hard recipes that needed you to farm extremely rare drops around Eorzera to craft gear with a really high crafting level. This would encourage teamwork, activate the dead economy and most importantly create content that players can complete in their own way without arrow markers spoiling the fun of discovery.

Also this would be really cheap way to add content that is optional, challenging and makes the population a bit more interested in exploring the secrets of this game.

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Oh you mean like the NMs and recipes Tanaka made?
Yeah, that would be cool. Too bad, though. Tanaka's game is dead.

I dont understand , +1+2+3 gear is a weak way to have variety of items.
is ok with crafted gear but drooped rare/ex gear as well? screw that-i rather have more items to choose from.

Besides , rare /ex gear makes it so gil buyers cant have it, if is hard enough to get.

with enough gil in any mmo you can buy your way threw.

The game shouldn't make craftable gear better than drops. Neither should it be the other way around where drops make craftable gear useless. It should be a nice mix like it was in XI. Too many craftable items being needed causes crafters to corner the market like what happened in XI. If they introduce dungeons for every 5-10 levels or so with gear obtained from there, it lessens that corner to a few items.

Edit: Typo in the first sentence. The game SHOULDN'T make craftable gear better than drops-

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Originally Posted by Shipp

The game should make craftable gear better than drops. Neither should it be the other way around where drops make craftable gear useless. It should be a nice mix like it was in XI. Too many craftable items being needed causes crafters to corner the market like what happened in XI. If they introduce dungeons for every 5-10 levels or so with gear obtained from there, it lessens that corner to a few items.

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As long as crafting gear can always edge out ahead of NM dropped gear (not NM dropped mats for gear, mind you, but completed gear) I'm ok with that. As long as NM (completed) gear is Untradeable, I'm ok with that, too. It's just a pretty fine line to walk and already I choose shitty gear (because stats are meaningless) over better, crafted gear because I have no incentive to spend gil when I can get shit for free and wear it into the ground, throw it away and get Faction NM gear for my 50 jobs (which are neither Untradeable or Crafted, though Crafted is often equal to or slightly better than - which is kinda weird situation all around, I think).

The game pushes crafters out of the mainstream little by little every patch since Yoshida started.

I don't see what's wrong with an entirely player driven economy.

What's wrong with giving crafters some control?

Sometimes crafters DO need some control to feel relevant in the scheme of things.

Hello Everyone!

Obviously there are (at least) two very different schools of thought on the way the game should play and people are going to have disagreements, but please try to keep the conversation to the topic at hand and refrain from personally attacking other players just to prove a point. Including insults in an argument only discredits any valid points you might be trying to make. These are some helpful things to keep in mind in the future.

For Guidelines on Forum Use, you can visit the link below.

FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=902&la=1

Thank you for your understanding!

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Originally Posted by Seif

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I think it would be great if there were some really hard recipes that needed you to farm extremely rare drops around Eorzera to craft gear with a really high crafting level. This would encourage teamwork, activate the dead economy and most importantly create content that players can complete in their own way without arrow markers spoiling the fun of discovery.

Also this would be really cheap way to add content that is optional, challenging and makes the population a bit more interested in exploring the secrets of this game.

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Yes, precisely. It would be nice if there was that.

Shai,

You are making a really good point.
It is important that the need/use of crafters doesn't diminish.
You mentioned a fine line about the above issue, but at the moment that line is blurry.
We've hopped from one side of the spectrum to another, and perhaps we are further from that line than we were before.
But that doesn't mean the game is going into absolute turd-om, or that the new vision of this game is terrible.
Sometimes you have to make a mistake to make things better than they ever were.

I feel like your pretty doom n gloomy about this situation, and that's not helping it get any better. Don't write it off as an effect of Yoshi-P'ism, but do something to make it clear and better.

If gifts idea was implemented it would create a use for crafters to make NM gear better. (win/win) Yeah, a new system might have to be implemented to upgrade NM gear to HQ +1 etc, but it's a possible solution.

As for the materia situation.

That isn't a solution.

I don't want to be a materia crafter.

I want to craft recipes with lots of obscure materials that require teamwork and effort to bring together, with a group of invested players putting in the work to get the reward. (Like Silver Tricorne +3. To get one requires a collective effort of several people/friends).

(Or you can just be happy with a NQ for a fraction of the effort.)

Throwing a materia at a weapon with an empty materia slot and praying to your God Yoshi that it is a sucess isn't the same thing.